EA now owns all things NFLPA

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:05 am

pk - I'm sure you're right, but speaking for myself I have to come to this in a matter of degrees. I've gotten past denial. Am moving through anger and am heading into the bargaining stage.

---Todd

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:08 am

ubrakto wrote:pk - I'm sure you're right, but speaking for myself I have to come to this in a matter of degrees. I've gotten past denial. Am moving through anger and am heading into the bargaining stage.
---Todd

First time I've laughed about anything regarding this putrid deal since it was announced!

Take care,
PK

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:38 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:41 am

EA Borg: It's in the assimilation

icvu42 · Post by **icvu42** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:59 am

So what do you think Sega's next move is?

-Make a college football game?
-Make the pro football game with just numbers and city names?
-Make a completely fictional football game?
-Sign an exclusive agreement with the Canadian Football League?
-Scrap football altogether?

Rick

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:04 pm

No 2, I reckon.

With 'edit' options for team names, colours, stadia etc.

Probably about a week after release, full correct rosters will be magically appearing on the usual websites, without the costly licence cost.

Maybe they can spend the development time fixing the ridiculous franchise mode, instead. That wrecked NFL 2k5 for me.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:05 pm

icvu42 wrote:So what do you think Sega's next move is?

-Make a college football game?
-Make the pro football game with just numbers and city names?
-Make a completely fictional football game?
-Sign an exclusive agreement with the Canadian Football League?
-Scrap football altogether?

Rick

Sadly, I think it'll be the latter, since that would make the most sense from a business point of view. I read that they were using NFL2K5 as a loss-leader to build up market share for the future. Given that the market share won't be there it really doesn't make any sense to throw any more development money into the genre.

Best wishes,

Doug

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:09 pm

icvu42 wrote:So what do you think Sega's next move is?

-Make a college football game?
-Make the pro football game with just numbers and city names?
-Make a completely fictional football game?
-Sign an exclusive agreement with the Canadian Football League?
-Scrap football altogether?

Rick

I think they will scrap PRO football, without question. I doubt we'll see a college game next year, either, as there just isn't enough time to change the game over.

I could see them tweaking the engine into some fictional football game, perhaps arcade-ish in nature, but keeping a lot of the great elements of the NFL 2k series.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:16 pm

icvu42 wrote:So what do you think Sega's next move is?

-Make a college football game?
-Make the pro football game with just numbers and city names?
-Make a completely fictional football game?
-Sign an exclusive agreement with the Canadian Football League?
-Scrap football altogether?

Rick

My personal hope is that we see them resurrect their college football game, but realistically they're probably done (if they thought they could sell seroius college football units they wouldn't have scrapped that series in the first place).

In today's market I think you *might* be able to get away with not having player names if the rest of the game were good enough, but it's hard to imagine Americans in the "new millenium" buying a football game that doesn't have their favorite teams. Yeah, with the right tools built-in the dedicated online crowd could get around that, but that's not a big enough market. The average gamer will just buy Madden (IMO) and I'm sure Sega knows it.

PK - a bitter laugh is better than no laugh at all.

---Todd

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:34 pm

I think it's very possible that Sega is out of football gaming, and sports gaming, next year.

Football games represent the largest chunk of the market for sports gaming companies. Sega and Take Two have admitted that selling ESPN NFL 2K5 was a loss leader in hopes of gaining more market share this season, selling more games next season, probably at $39.99 or the usual $49.99.

Well, there won't be a next season for Sega NFL football. So Sega and Take Two are stuck with their dicks in their hands, awash in red ink from this fall. That hurts Sega, which still probably has debt from the failure of the Dreamcast.

Take Two has Grand Theft Auto, so that keeps it floating smoothly. But if EA buys one more exclusive license, such as baseball, I think it's going to be tough for Sega and Take Two to justify development for less lucrative sports genres if it can't recoup some of that investment through sales of licensed football and baseball games.

So the moral of the story is: Buy Grand Theft Auto San Andreas and the GTA Double Pack in droves if you want to see Sega continue to produce sports games.

Take care,
PK

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:59 pm

Should we expect that the other EA Sports games will suffer quality wise since they shelled out all this money to the NFL?

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:07 pm

Am I in the minority by saying that I'd buy and play a football game without the NFLPA license? If the game is good and just the city name and player numbers are included, I'd be able to live with that. After all, I have no problem enjoying NCAA Football without player names.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:12 pm

davet010 wrote:No 2, I reckon.

With 'edit' options for team names, colours, stadia etc.

Probably about a week after release, full correct rosters will be magically appearing on the usual websites, without the costly licence cost.

Since there is so much money involved in it, do you think EA would start to go after people making these downloads available?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:12 pm

Jason:

Would you enjoy NCAA Football as much without the real stadiums, logos, uniforms, mascots and fight songs? In other words, Community College Football 2006?

I know I wouldn't. And that's the kind of deal EA has with the NFL. It got everything -- not just the player names.

Take care,
PK

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:13 pm

Here's a new game idea:

"Grand Theft Auto: Redwood City" -Take to the streets with all extreme new weapons and gun down Electronic Arts executives and programmers!! Play through huge missions including side trips to Maitland, Florida and to Canada! Varied techniques allow gamers to play the game their way - blast your way through a level with an Uzi by using special moves to avoid the EA gunmen (who only shoot lefthanded) or simply buy the exclusive rights to all the weapons in the game and shoot down the EA badmen like fish in a bathtub!!

That was a joke and I am by no means advocating violence toward anyone who works for EA.

Seriously, this is just bad news. It is not going to be a very merry Festivus this year.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:13 pm

matthewk wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Matt, but I trimmed the O's from your original post because it f*cked up the margins of this thread and made reading long posts annoying.

But I totally agree with your sentiment!

Take care,
PK

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:24 pm

Do people remember Madden 64? How did that sell compared to QB Club or whatever the game was that had the NFL license on the N64?

We know Mike Ditka Football probably bombed compared to Madden and Joe Montana, both of which had NFL and NFLPA licenses.

The difficulty for ESPN is that they can't even get an NFL player to endorse the game. Maybe a coach but I think Madden has a deal with some coaches' association. So it would have to be someone like Arrington or a retired coach.

Mabye VC needs to look into soccer or tennis...

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:28 pm

pk500 wrote:Jason:

Would you enjoy NCAA Football as much without the real stadiums, logos, uniforms, mascots and fight songs? In other words, Community College Football 2006?

I know I wouldn't. And that's the kind of deal EA has with the NFL. It got everything -- not just the player names.

Take care,
PK

Would I enjoy it as much? Probably not. But would I still enjoy it? Yes, as long as the game is good.

To be honest, I'm not huge fan of college football so the stadiums, logos, etc. don't mean that much to me. I've been playing the game alot simply because I enjoy it.

I do see your point though, I've always bought pro sports games only because I'd rather play with players/teams that I know.

The bottom line is that this situation sucks, but I'd still play a Sega game if it's good.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:28 pm

No problem PK. Sorry about that. In my fit of rage after reading the news article I just couldn't find the energy to lift my finger off the 'O' key

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:35 pm

pk500 wrote:Jason:

Would you enjoy NCAA Football as much without the real stadiums, logos, uniforms, mascots and fight songs? In other words, Community College Football 2006?

I know I wouldn't. And that's the kind of deal EA has with the NFL. It got everything -- not just the player names.

Take care,
PK

I know for a fact that I'm in the minority, but I dont give a hoot about the mascots and all that jazz. Just give me a team called Ohio State, a uniform that is close to accurate, give me a top 25 poll, a "heisman" winner, a fun recruiting model and a lot of bowl games or the chance to play a playoff and I dont care one bit about the other stuff if not having that made the game sell for $20 rather than $50. Do I like the other stuff? Sure. But a choice between that and nothing? That's easy. Again I know I'm in the minority on that, but I just want to play a good football game. To me, the other stuff is filler.

skidmark · Post by **skidmark** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:36 pm

Jason wrote:Am I in the minority by saying that I'd buy and play a football game without the NFLPA license? If the game is good and just the city name and player numbers are included, I'd be able to live with that. After all, I have no problem enjoying NCAA Football without player names.

Not in the minority on this board I'm sure, but Joe Gamer is going to avoid it. They made a huge leap in market share this year, but there is no way they still have it without real teams.

Now, what's their incentive to go forward? Pour all their effort into another sport to make it profitable? Football is the sport that makes the big bucks, but the baseball game market could be much larger if there were engines that were as impressive as the football ones. But where's the incentive in that? They bust their butts to make a killer baseball game, and EA would just rinse and repeat with MLB.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:52 pm

Now that I've read the article, (most of) this thread, and let it sink in a little, here's where I'm now at:

- I will NOT pay $50 or more for madden 2006. If they decide to jack up the price, I will definitely play a 2004 title.

- What football title I will play next year is unknown. I really WANT to just tell EA to suck it and never buy Madden again, but realistically I know that after a year or two I will want the new players, not to mention the new jerseys the NFL is sure to come up with.

- This may just be the point where the console/PC pendulum begins to swing back the other way. If Madden is the only NFL game in town, the PC is the best place for a smaller company to come up with a next-gen Front Page Sports Football type of game. Provide us with the framework and let the mod community develop the rosters, logos, field art, and jerseys. Even with the Action Replay, the PC is the best hope for a game like this.

- I will continue on with 2K5 for as long as possible. If the franchise issues and DB coverage were fixed, I'd be happy with 2K5 for years to come. As it stands, I'm not sure how long it will last.

- I am also going to look back into other football games. I thought there was a CFL one for the PC recently. I may just fire up FB Pro '98 and see what can be made of that. Or possibly the PC version of NFL Fever. I know they are old, but I really do not want Madden as my only choice. May even have to find Backyard Football cheap, just in case.

- Just last week I finished up my 1st season of 2K5. I knew about the horror stories of the rookie draft, and I was aware of my salary cap having 50+ mil in room.

Still I went about the offseason with some "house rules" just to see if it was salvageable. I limited myself to signing 75% of my own free agents to be, leaving 1 or 2 good players go. Then I limited myself to enough good FA pickups to make up for most of my FA losses. I only went after 1 top level guy, 1 mid, and another backup. In the draft, I forced myself to take either a QB,HB,DE, or T in the 1st round, just to keep things fair.

As I wondered if all this tinkering was worth it, I fired up Madden 2004 for a couple exhibition games (slider tweaks enabled). It is definitely a different feel after nothing but 2k5 for 3 months. Like someone here once said, 2k5 feelslike playing football, while Madden feels like playing a videogame about football. I missed receivers being able to run after the catch. I missed the running game. I missed the presentation. I missed strategy that 2K5 forces you into.

I began my 2nd season and discovered that even with the problems I can enjoy the game. I was at peace with my decision to stick with 2k5 for another season. That was before I woke this morning to see this thread

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:05 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:I know for a fact that I'm in the minority, but I dont give a hoot about the mascots and all that jazz. Just give me a team called Ohio State, a uniform that is close to accurate, give me a top 25 poll, a "heisman" winner, a fun recruiting model and a lot of bowl games or the chance to play a playoff and I dont care one bit about the other stuff if not having that made the game sell for $20 rather than $50. Do I like the other stuff? Sure. But a choice between that and nothing? That's easy. Again I know I'm in the minority on that, but I just want to play a good football game. To me, the other stuff is filler.

Wow, one of the rare times we disagree. I could live with that kind of thing for the pro game, but for college? I really don't think I could stand taking the field as Michigan and not see their unique helmets or hear Hail to the Victors playing after a touchdown. To me the so-called pageantry and atmosphere is a lot of what I love about the college game. (At least for console games with emphasis on the on-the-field gameplay. Give me a FOF College Years that's not really based on visuals and it's a different story.)
---Todd

Post by **Jared** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:34 pm

First, the law posts are more there to see IF SEGA/VC can and/or will pursue some legal action. I'm not suggesting any kind of gamer-led lawsuit, because it will almost assuredly be fruitless.

Secondly, the IGN report stated that the NFL came to the different gaming companies with the offer of an exclusive license. If true, then they probably came to Sega/Take Two with that offer as well. However, it seems like the Sega/VC people are shocked by this move. What happened with Sega/VC? Did they even get a chance to bid for the exclusive license? Did someone high up in Sega that handles procuring licenses keep this hush hush and not tell the VC team? You'd think that if the people at VC knew they were gonna lose the license, they'd already be preparing for it with changes...but it seems like they were all going on with business as usual....there've been no rumors coming out from there AT ALL regarding something this big. And the whole SEGA/VC sales strategy seemed to be predicated on having the NFL license for a while.

Either EA is lying about multiple companies getting a chance at the exclusive license, or the chance at an NFL license was lost high up at Sega/Take Two and they didn't communicate it to VC (or the rank and file at VC) until the press release was announced. Or I could be completely wrong....but something doesn't seem to add up here.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:38 pm

Either EA is lying about multiple companies getting a chance at the exclusive license, or the chance at an NFL license was lost high up at Sega/Take Two and they didn't communicate it to VC (or the rank and file at VC) until the press release was announced. Or I could be completely wrong....but something doesn't seem to add up here.

Jeff Brown of EA lying to us? Nah.