OT - Financial mess 101 ($700 billion bailout)

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:56 am

RobVarak wrote:
Teal wrote:Here is a list of Senators who voted no. As advertised, Sessions and Shelby voted no, and I will continue to vote 'yes' for them, as a result.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/ ... ed_No.html
Who knew there would be such demand for the role of the new Herbert Hoover?

What did you think of the Dave Ramsey plan above?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:21 am

Teal wrote:
What did you think of the Dave Ramsey plan above?

It wouldn't work and it wouldn't have a chance of being passed. Other than that, it's a gem

It's late and I'm tired, so I'll be brief. Insurance alone will not repair the credit markets, nor will his foreclosure reforms. There are discreet parts of the plan that are fine ideas for other reasons, though.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:27 am

Tried calling my representative (a Dem), but the offices are currently closed. I'll have to try later. In the meantime, I sent him the following:

First, I want to thank you for your vote earlier in the week on the bailout bill. I'm sure it took quite a bit of courage to vote no in the face of extreme pressure from the Democratic leadership in the House. I hope you show the same courage Thursday or Friday when the "enhanced" bill comes up again. What the Senate did was an abomination. While I agree there are financial issues affecting the country, and a bailout may ultimately be necessary (though as a free market person I would prefer the market dictate success and failure), for the Senate to add provisions to entice Democrats and Republicans to vote yes is a disservice to the country. Our wonderful Senators, including both from Texas who voted yes, have voted to add tens of billions of dollars to an already out of control national debt in the form of tax breaks and incentives. They have exhibited the worst kind of leadership through fiscal bribery of the House.

Please vote no on the next bailout vote to keep our national debt from increasing yet again. Work to develop a plan that is good for the country.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:36 am

From http://www.forbes.com/topstories/2008/1 ... nate2.html

"I am very, very happy with this vote tonight," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. "I think it shows that when we work together we can accomplish great things." Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ken. said: "This has been the Senate at its finest."

If this the Senate at its finest, I'd hate to see what comes out when they aren't on their A-game!

What the esteemed Senator from NY had to say:

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., says many of the tax breaks were bound to pass in some other legislation. There's no way that Congress was going to adjourn for the year and allow constituents to get hit by the AMT. Same with disaster relief. Energy tax credits have broad support on both sides of the aisle.

Fair enough, but what about

But what about film and TV programs, which would receive a $344 million tax break? Or “motorsports racing track facilities,” which get a break of $140 million? Under the Senate plan, restaurateurs and retailers get a $5.8 billion break for restaurant and retail improvements. Indian reservations get a $624 million break to accelerate depreciation on business property. Washington, D.C., would benefit from $132 million of tax incentives to attract investment to the District.

Alright Paul, what's the deal with the $140 million tax break for race tracks?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:55 am

F308GTB wrote:Alright Paul, what's the deal with the $140 million tax break for race tracks?

Well, James, I'll hafta get back t ya on that one.

But I do know that when Putin is heading for New York and Washington after crossing through Alaska, he'll have to cross over Indiana airspace ...

The Indianapolis Motor Speedway never has accepted a dime of public funding in its 99-year history. So unless we're talking property taxes here, the tax breaks wouldn't apply to any future publicly funded projects at IMS since there's no such thing as a publicly funded project at IMS.

Take care,
PK

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:21 am

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00212

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:13 pm

It sounds like tax breaks for corporate income taxes aimed for specific industries?

Yeah they added $100 billion in spending to make it more palatable.

If it passes the House tomorrow, their initial vote cost an additional $100 billion.

If it doesn't pass, the cost to the overall economy may be much greater.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:26 pm

pk500 wrote: Well, James, I'll hafta get back t ya on that one.

But I do know that when Putin is heading for New York and Washington after crossing through Alaska, he'll have to cross over Indiana airspace ...

nyisles16 · Post by **nyisles16** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:25 pm

well, in sort of related news -- in just over an hour now I'll be told to seek employment elsewhere...

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:36 pm

nyisles16 wrote:well, in sort of related news -- in just over an hour now I'll be told to seek employment elsewhere...

So sorry to hear that Isles. What happened? Hope you got some severance package at least. Was this due to the economy? What industry/field are you in?

nyisles16 · Post by **nyisles16** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:59 pm

Manager for a rental car company.. I get told in just about an hour (I got the info from sources yesterday)

Don't know too much yet

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:06 pm

Jay-zus, Isles, that's brutal. Sorry, man. Hang in there, and I wish you luck in finding a new gig.

Take care,
PK

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:31 pm

pk500 wrote:Jay-zus, Isles, that's brutal. Sorry, man. Hang in there, and I wish you luck in finding a new gig.

Take care,
PK

Same thoughts as PK here.

Sorry to hear nyisles...I worry about that every day. I wish you the best of luck.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:31 pm

I know the feeling Isles. Except ours is a longer, more drawn out execution. Sometime between now and the end of the year our department should know which of us will still have jobs.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:37 pm

nyisles16 wrote:Manager for a rental car company.. I get told in just about an hour (I got the info from sources yesterday)

Don't know too much yet

I would imagine all car rental co's are hurting due to gas prices and folks taking less vacations due to the bad economy. Best of luck to you Isles. Sometimes these things end up being blessings in disguise. Keep the faith buddy!

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:58 pm

Nice job, Reid...you dumbass...
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/02/news/co ... /index.htm

Of course, maybe you got what you were after...

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:09 pm

263 spineless parasitic tics

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:42 pm

Sorry to hear about your situation, isles. Hope everything ultimately turns out for the better for you. In the meantime, keep your head up.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:00 pm

RobVarak wrote:I just realized that a sizable portion of the Democrats voting against the bill were members of the Congressional Black Caucus, as well as 9 different members of the Illinois delegation. Combined with Pelosi's behavior, I'm beginning to smell a setup in a bill that was far too important for such political shennanigans. C'est la guerre.

More tin-foil for the elephant hat?

Dem leaders dishing Obama credit on bailout

With victory in hand on the bailout vote, Democratic House leaders are rushing to give Barack Obama credit for helping wavering Democrats get behind the bill in today's historic vote.

"I want to thank one person who's not here, and that's Barack Obama, who made numerous calls and helped us get the votes to pass this," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) the House Democratic Caucus chairman.

Obama did indeed call several lawmakers like Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), who changed his vote today. But it's not clear yet how wide Obama's influence really was.

Reps. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) and John Larson (D-Conn.), both of whom are Democratic leaders, also just praised Obama for helping win over Democrats who voted no on Monday and just helped push the bill toward passage today.

This will be an ongoing theme now with Democrats — they'd love to give Barack Obama credit for bringing Democrats to the table and helping pass the bill.

We'll see if any of the House Republican vote switchers want to give credit to John McCain.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/ ... ilout.html

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:23 pm

sorry, wrong thread!

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:38 pm

webdanzer wrote:
RobVarak wrote:I just realized that a sizable portion of the Democrats voting against the bill were members of the Congressional Black Caucus, as well as 9 different members of the Illinois delegation. Combined with Pelosi's behavior, I'm beginning to smell a setup in a bill that was far too important for such political shennanigans. C'est la guerre.
More tin-foil for the elephant hat?

Dem leaders dishing Obama credit on bailout

With victory in hand on the bailout vote, Democratic House leaders are rushing to give Barack Obama credit for helping wavering Democrats get behind the bill in today's historic vote.

"I want to thank one person who's not here, and that's Barack Obama, who made numerous calls and helped us get the votes to pass this," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) the House Democratic Caucus chairman.

Obama did indeed call several lawmakers like Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), who changed his vote today. But it's not clear yet how wide Obama's influence really was.

Reps. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) and John Larson (D-Conn.), both of whom are Democratic leaders, also just praised Obama for helping win over Democrats who voted no on Monday and just helped push the bill toward passage today.

This will be an ongoing theme now with Democrats — they'd love to give Barack Obama credit for bringing Democrats to the table and helping pass the bill.

We'll see if any of the House Republican vote switchers want to give credit to John McCain.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/ ... ilout.html

Jaezus...they have no shame, do they? As if Obama had anything to do with it. It's funny...they can't even lie subtle-ly...

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:10 pm

Remember this when the bailout turns into a disaster or when the people (the majority of which opposed this) continue to b*&ch about it. Then you'll have these exact same people blaming Bush for signing off on it.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:28 pm

matthewk wrote:Remember this when the bailout turns into a disaster or when the people (the majority of which opposed this) continue to b*&ch about it. Then you'll have these exact same people blaming Bush for signing off on it.

This stupid bill won't do any good.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:13 pm

I just read that this $700B bill had an additional $1.7Billion attached to it.
Why is this stuff even allowed? It's disgraceful. But what's another $1.7 Billion amongst friends?

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/ar ... RE,XLF,SPY

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:30 pm

JackB1 wrote:I just read that this $700B bill had an additional $1.7Billion attached to it.
Why is this stuff even allowed? It's disgraceful. But what's another $1.7 Billion amongst friends?

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/ar ... RE,XLF,SPY

These assholes do this s*** with every bill...They add and add and add to pass them.

BUT...

Believe it or not....There are still some morons out there who think there is no government waste..