FIFA 08 (360) Impressions

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:59 am

Snobs drink wine.

Macca is 100% right...SWOS makes FIFA and WE look behind the times.

Here is a game that has almost the entire world in the game. Plus you have all international competitions. I think it also has lower division playoffs but I'm not sure. I just don't get how FIFA and WE couldn't offer this. In WE's case with all generic players in the obscure leagues. Just copy SWOS and be done with it.

I also took Scun-thorpe U... HA.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:11 pm

How the cards in Fifa 08?

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:49 am

I take back everything I said... after really, really REALLY (and I mean 'really') taking the time to get used to the way momentum and footwork are implemented in this game, I'm having a ball. That goes for offline, too.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:03 pm

Tried the SWOS demo - yecch! Can't stand the graphics and the gameplay - meh. I never played SWOS during its heyday but played kick off and player manager instead. I'd love to have all the teams and leagues in the current generation though!

The more I play Fifa the more frustrated I become with its AI and gameplay shortcomings. Good lord, the number of volleys off crosses in the game is simply ludicrous. Add to that the do nothing (or do the wrong thing) team-mate AI and a lot of the other good things (pace, atmosphere, licenses, commentary) are off-set. It really doesn't hold a candle to Pro Evo PC in the gameplay department other than the more realistc pace. There are a lot of assists provided to make the AI more competitve, with brain-dead teammate AI being the most notable.

The next iteration of FIFA actually needs some pretty major tweaks to the engine in order to get where it needs to be. Had Konami not buggered up their product, or done anything to address licenses and leagues, the gap between the two would still be pretty large.

Best wishes,

Doug

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:37 pm

Agreed on all points Doug. I tried SWOS out of curiosity and hated the game. I also agree that FIFA needs to step up and tighten up the AI. I fired up WE 2007(360) and the AI is still a dream. I even like the offensive AI more in PES 2008 and is the pinnacle for how AI should be.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:40 pm

Rodster wrote:Agreed on all points Doug. I tried SWOS out of curiosity and hated the game. I also agree that FIFA needs to step up and tighten up the AI. I fired up WE 2007(360) and the AI is still a dream. I even like the offensive AI more in PES 2008 and is the pinnacle for how AI should be.

Ive been on the FIFA fence a while...you boys have pretty much sealed it...Ill sit and wait for 09...

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:45 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Rodster wrote:Agreed on all points Doug. I tried SWOS out of curiosity and hated the game. I also agree that FIFA needs to step up and tighten up the AI. I fired up WE 2007(360) and the AI is still a dream. I even like the offensive AI more in PES 2008 and is the pinnacle for how AI should be.
Ive been on the FIFA fence a while...you boys have pretty much sealed it...Ill sit and wait for 09...

If you're mainly an on-line gamer I'd still recommend it - the 5 on 5 on-line is a lot of fun. I've missed most of Zeppo's on-line nights as Wednesday is my indoor league night.

Best wishes,

Doug

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:53 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Rodster wrote:Agreed on all points Doug. I tried SWOS out of curiosity and hated the game. I also agree that FIFA needs to step up and tighten up the AI. I fired up WE 2007(360) and the AI is still a dream. I even like the offensive AI more in PES 2008 and is the pinnacle for how AI should be.
Ive been on the FIFA fence a while...you boys have pretty much sealed it...Ill sit and wait for 09...

FIFA 08 (360) does a lot right more so than PES 2008. The commentary (Martin Tyler) and atmosphere are incredible. Be A Pro mode is freakin sick too, once you get the hang of it. The AI is pretty good in Be a Pro mode. And that's why so many of us are frustrated by the AI in the rest of the game.

It's almost as if EA coded two separate AI's for two parts of the game. If you love Futbol I would at least suggest a rental.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:00 am

From a single-player perspective only:

If you autopsy FIFA 08 and last year's WE, I think you'll find that the end results are surprisingly similar. They are both flawed and fall short of the high water marks set in previous iterations of WE, but I have had a ton of fun with both of them. I've probably put in as many hours in the Manager Mode of FIFA as I did in the equivalent amount of time with master league last year. It's fun. The AI is flawed, there are too many accurate volleys etc, but it's fun. Lots of fun. And I enjoy the FM for Dummies aspect of the mode even more than the ML. And after enjoying the full panoply of licensed teams, the experience of enduring the "Merseyside Reds" et all changes from charming to grating.

Online:

Not. Even. Close. FIFA is so far ahead of Konami's games at this point that it's embarassing. Even before getting to Online Team Play, the quality of the online experience from EA is superior in every respect. In that context, OTP is guilding the lily.

I can't comprehend how footy fans can ignore it. There's just nothing as satisfying in all of online gaming as playing a really sparkling run of football in this mode. It's incredibly rewarding for the player who likes to play tactically, the player who likes to demonstrate individual brilliance or the player who likes to lock into an individual role. It's freaking awesome.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:22 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Rodster wrote:Agreed on all points Doug. I tried SWOS out of curiosity and hated the game. I also agree that FIFA needs to step up and tighten up the AI. I fired up WE 2007(360) and the AI is still a dream. I even like the offensive AI more in PES 2008 and is the pinnacle for how AI should be.
Ive been on the FIFA fence a while...you boys have pretty much sealed it...Ill sit and wait for 09...

same here

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:11 am

FIFA Street 3 demo is up on XBL.

PIECE. OF. s***.

I think it's worse than FIFA Street 2. I don't know why they bother making these games - why don't they just use the FIFA 08 engine and make a Futsal game. Imagine a 5 on 5 indoor game using the new engine (and hopefully having the responsiveness of the arena mode) - that would be a lot of fun and there are more than enough 'skill' moves in FIFA 08 without resorting to the garbage in Street (now you can run up walls...with the ball, of course).

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:34 am

That's too bad about FIFA Street 3.

Yeah with fewer players, they should be able to give you more control over each player's moves without having to resort to over-the-top stuff.

And then do OTP for it and it could be the perfect pick-up-and-play arcade game.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:30 pm

I know i'm going to sound like JRod before he had a love fest with FIFA 08 but the AI in this game plain sucks. Good gawd the back line drops back into coverage and they act like zombies as they don't even react to the opposing player or ball. I given up sooo many goals this way it's absolutely frustrating.

The animations get in the way of what your trying to do when controlling the player. If it weren't for Martin Tyler commenting which is the best thing about the game I would have traded it in.

WE's worse AI is light years ahead of this junk.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:48 pm

Rodster wrote:I know i'm going to sound like JRod before he had a love fest with FIFA 08 but the AI in this game plain sucks. Good gawd the back line drops back into coverage and they act like zombies as they don't even react to the opposing player or ball. I given up sooo many goals this way it's absolutely frustrating.

The animations get in the way of what your trying to do when controlling the player. If it weren't for Martin Tyler commenting which is the best thing about the game I would have traded it in.

WE's worse AI is light years ahead of this junk.

Maybe, but FIFA 08 OTP is the best soccer videogaming experience I've ever had. No amount of beating the "great" AI in WE/PES is 1/100 as exciting or satisfying as linking up with 3 friends to beat 3 other actual humans to score a goal. There are about 100 great moments per night in this mode. I can't even imagine what it would be like if it weren't hampered by the quirky FIFA controls.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:00 am

RobVarak wrote: Maybe, but FIFA 08 OTP is the best soccer videogaming experience I've ever had. No amount of beating the "great" AI in WE/PES is 1/100 as exciting or satisfying as linking up with 3 friends to beat 3 other actual humans to score a goal. There are about 100 great moments per night in this mode. I can't even imagine what it would be like if it weren't hampered by the quirky FIFA controls.

Well said. Although I'd say "FIFA 08 OTP is the best sports videogaming experience I've ever had" to be precise about it.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:51 am

FIFA 08 has two major flaws; the 'play-control'/responsiveness is lousy, and the off-the-ball AI is crappy. OTP fixes one but not the other. Fortunately there are DSP OTP games basically every night so it was definitely worth picking up, but I can't go so far to say it's my best sports video game experience ever. That would require the controls to be cleaned up.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:05 pm

Naples39 wrote:FIFA 08 has two major flaws; the 'play-control'/responsiveness is lousy, and the off-the-ball AI is crappy. OTP fixes one but not the other. Fortunately there are DSP OTP games basically every night so it was definitely worth picking up, but I can't go so far to say it's my best sports video game experience ever. That would require the controls to be cleaned up.

I feel the same way.

Just because it's the first to offer multi-team play that doesn't mean by default it's the best.

If Konami offered its Fantatista mode and online team play would, I think for sure it would kill FIFA's effort. But it doesn't. So I think Naples said it best.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:11 pm

JRod wrote:
Naples39 wrote:FIFA 08 has two major flaws; the 'play-control'/responsiveness is lousy, and the off-the-ball AI is crappy. OTP fixes one but not the other. Fortunately there are DSP OTP games basically every night so it was definitely worth picking up, but I can't go so far to say it's my best sports video game experience ever. That would require the controls to be cleaned up.
I feel the same way.

Just because it's the first to offer multi-team play that doesn't mean by default it's the best.

If Konami offered its Fantatista mode and online team play would, I think for sure it would kill FIFA's effort. But it doesn't. So I think Naples said it best.

I agree wholeheartedly with both of Naples' criticisims. I stand by the fact that despite them OTP is the best game soccer game and the most fun I've ever had with a sports game.

Indeed, just because it's the first doesn't mean it's the best. It's the best because it's the most fun.

I wish I shared your confidence in Konami, but after watching them flog their customers by wringing every last drop of blood out of their franchise with nary an improvement or feature addition, I cannot.

Oh, and judging by their previous "efforts" at online play, I expect that if they offered that mode it would be clunky, ugly, laggy and unlikely to be a meaningfuly challenger to FIFA.

Look, I LOVE WE/PES. I've spent WAY more hours on it than any other gaming franchise, including Madden. Hell, I even love ML the way it is! But the last version had AI trouble, passing quirks and shooting that was touchier than R. Kelly at the Miss Teen USA pageant. If they don't start to improve that engine and pull themselves out of the feature ghetto, they are toast...and deservedly so.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:19 pm

Quick question, and one I've been meaning to ask, mainly after reading nothing but sports game hate on most blogs -

Do you consider FIFA's OTP to be evolutionary or innovative?

The OTP camera is a major change from a game like Rivals that left everything as-is only with online players in the place of AI teammates.

Just interested in your opinions.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:00 pm

Dave wrote:Quick question, and one I've been meaning to ask, mainly after reading nothing but sports game hate on most blogs -

Do you consider FIFA's OTP to be evolutionary or innovative?

The OTP camera is a major change from a game like Rivals that left everything as-is only with online players in the place of AI teammates.

Just interested in your opinions.

Very little in videogames strikes me as really innovative anymore. I suppose that it's just evolutionary from a gameplay standpoint. From a technical standpoint, it seems to be more innovative. I'm speculating here, but given the difficulty that many games in all genres have with matchmaking, disconnects etc. I think it's a pretty significant achievement to be able to get 10 players into a match and playing without significant lag in a sports game.

Ultimately it's a distinction without a difference though. It's fun.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:13 pm

It's not really that innovative. I've been playing 2 on 2 (or more) sports games since maybe the NES or the SNES / Genesis. It is nice to finally have as a real feature again after many years, but EA isn't really breaking any new ground.

The 'be a pro' camera is garbage. It's OK in some instances, and I do see it as marginally useful if you're locked as a striker, but around your own box it really breaks down and becomes a huge liability. The real problem with it, however, is that you can't see laterally or behind you AT ALL, so it's pretty easy to tell when someone online is using that camera, because that person will never pass square, even more 'never' than most regular Joes.

But OTP works great in the 'tele' cam. The ability to swap the camera focus from the ball to your player is a really nice touch, but personally I don't use that much, since I'm usually an Any or a central midfielder.

What's innovative about OTP is everything that happens among teammates in the game itself. The game is just the platform for teamwork goodness.

I mean, I guess it's fair to call it innovative only because everyone else it too lazy to try to make it a feature in their games, but firstly, it's a no-brainer extension of the fact that four controller ports have been standard on consoles for a while now (and there were multi-taps for consoles before that), and the fact that online play is now part and parcel of standard video game fare.

I'm not saying its easy to do, but it can't be all that much harder than getting 16 or more online in your run of the mill shooter.

The one thing where they really dropped the ball is that you can only have one player on each Xbox when playing OTP. If there were ever a game where you'd think bringing a 'guest' online would be obvious, it's this. There's no split screen or anything to worry about, and even so, plenty of shooters out there have allowed guests for years with split screen, so they dropped the ball there.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:06 pm

Both games have serious flaws but both games, in spite of their flaws, are well worth playing.

Pro Evo has excellent control responsiveness and fantastic animations. While slightly fast at times the ball physics are very good. There's are real spontaneity to the gameplay. However, the on-line implementation is an absolute disgrace and the lack of licenses and real leagues is a real downer. They've also screwed up the defensive AI in the latest version and there appears to be far too much space out on the pitch.

Fifa has got the pace of a match down perfectly and generally, with a few exceptions (lack of officials, lack of variety in celebration cut scenes), does a fantastic job in presentation. It does an excellent job conveying how a real match progresses, with patient buildups and passing. On-line is terrifically implemented and is the polar opposite of PES. The opposition AI is quite good on defense (probably too good for many teams), and passable on offense. However, that's offset by wretched teammate AI which generally means that you have to switch players to get anything out of your team (particularly on defense). AI goalkeepers are way too good at shot stopping.

To sum up then both have serious flaws but a strong base to build from, provided that the designers deal with the areas of weakness.

Best wishes,

Doug

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:47 pm

dougb wrote: To sum up then both have serious flaws but a strong base to build from, provided that the designers deal with the areas of weakness.

Best wishes,

Doug

I agree with that, but you have to take into account the trajectories of the two games. FIFA was a joke just a few years ago, and has improved tremendously. WE was brilliant 4 or 5 years ago and has scarcely improved, or even regressed in some areas. I'm worried that this will continue, particularly given all the time and energy that seems to have been put into the Wii version...which I am only slightly curious about.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:02 pm

RobVarak wrote:
dougb wrote: To sum up then both have serious flaws but a strong base to build from, provided that the designers deal with the areas of weakness.

Best wishes,

Doug
I agree with that, but you have to take into account the trajectories of the two games. FIFA was a joke just a few years ago, and has improved tremendously. WE was brilliant 4 or 5 years ago and has scarcely improved, or even regressed in some areas. I'm worried that this will continue, particularly given all the time and energy that seems to have been put into the Wii version...which I am only slightly curious about.

I absolutely agree with you on the relative trajectories of the games. I would say that Pro Evo/Winning Eleven needs some series investment of resources from Konami (and a kick in the ass and summary dismissal for whomever designed the on-line portion).

Fifa have made exceptional progress and I think the major potential pitfall is that they may decide or be forced into turning the game into a more arcady experience. They need better teammate AI, tightened controls, slightly better physics, and a little more freedom in the game engine and they'll have an absolutely exceptional off-line as well as on-line soccer simulation.

I've heard good things about about the wii version but then we heard good things about Pro Evo on the next gen systems prior to release. Hopefully the team were chastened by the beating they've taken from fans of the series for the last poor effort, and Konami will get more serious about support the series.

Best wishes,

Doug

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:22 pm

While both games has it flaws, for sim style games I inevitably go back to PES 08 on the PS3 while the fun factor definitely goes back to the online aspect of the game in Fifa.
For those of you that play OTP often is there only just one camera angle? Playing one on one you have a few choices, not sure about OTP.