Madden 08 Hands On

Welcome to the Digital Sportspage forum.

Moderators: Bill_Abner, ScoopBrady

Post Reply
User avatar
ScoopBrady
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 7781
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:00 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Post by ScoopBrady »

Bill_Abner wrote:Imagine if Blizzard released a new WarCraft or StarCraft every year and charged full price and it had the same engine, same sound, new bugs, as well as some improvements, and a few new features. They'd get crucified. It's the environment that has caused all of this. It's the yearly game cycle and it puts enormous strain on the people actually developing the games. It's sweatshop-like and I know that they do what they can -- working crazy hours and living at work, but in the end these games *should* be better than what they are, and I don't apologize one bit for being critical of them.
So you're basically saying that the developers are working under impossible conditions yet you're still going to be critical of them? I think it's time you give up the hobby. Like it or not Bill you are in the vast minority when it comes to what is wanted out of a sports game. You might be in the majority within the hardcore sports videogame enthusiasts but you are not even close when it comes to the majority of people that buy sports videogames.

In a perfect world instead of the exclusivity we are seeing there would be annual released by different companies. For instance this year it's Madden 08, next year it's NFL 2k9, the year after that it's Madden 2010, and so on. That would put every game on a 2-year development cycle. Let the developer who can't release that year release a roster update. The problem is it will likely never be like that.

I can't speak for Teal but I think a lot of sports gamers are starting to focus on what is there rather than what isn't. Going back to the basics of the hobby; having fun. It's really the only way to remain happy as a sports gamer in the current climate.
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
User avatar
wco81
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 9575
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:00 am
Location: San Jose

Post by wco81 »

I've heard on other forums that the jetpack and other issues are back.

If that's true, they will "fix" it next year.

Problem with EA is that with all the money and the huge budget and staff, all they can do is recycle features and issues.

But yeah, the mass market doesn't care, Madden is a sacred cow. It was this way before the exclusive license.

Problem wasn't lack of competition from NFL2K or other NFL games. Problem is, Madden sells well against ALL video games.

Complacency and mediocrity are thus reinforced.
kevinpars
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:00 am

Post by kevinpars »

I just don’t think it is nitpicking when you are talking about something as basic as interceptions in a football game that is aiming for realism. When you can’t get through a game without your team getting a pick 6 or 3 or 4 interceptions, it is not the same thing as not having the stripes on the uniform correct. I find myself trying to balance the game so I don’t win all the time. Every year there seems to be some aspect of the game that makes the game unbalanced and it is very frustrating.

Also, EA is their own worst enemy. When we compare NCAA or Madden, often the better game we are talking about happens to be a previous version of… NCAA or Madden. Honestly, we are on our third iteration of Madden on the 360 and there are still versions on the original Xbox or PS2 that contained more features. NCAA still doesn’t have the smaller conferences that have been in the PS2/Xbox for years. And this is a game that sold a half million copies the first week. Multiply that by 59.99 or even 39.99 and we are talking a lot of money for a product that is built upon a previous version.

I guess it is all in the way you view the game. For example, I don’t hold a game like Earth Defense Force 2017 to the same standard as a game like BioShock – or Madden for that matter. Because of hype/expectations, I expect more from the one than the other. EA builds expectations – “It’s in the game” it has a “deep dynasty” with “realistic” game play. It gets frustrating to be a sports gamer these days when there are all sorts of great cool games out there but few of them are sports games.
User avatar
Bill_Abner
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 1829
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 3:00 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Post by Bill_Abner »

ScoopBrady wrote:So you're basically saying that the developers are working under impossible conditions yet you're still going to be critical of them?
$59.99 is $59.99 regardless, isn't it?

And being critical of the company and being critical of the people who work 48 hour shifts are two vastly different things.
ScoopBrady wrote:I think it's time you give up the hobby.
LOL thanks for the concern scoop, but I'm good, thanks. I actually love games. Love them. Plus, it's my job, so I doubt that would make the wife happy.
ScoopBrady wrote:Like it or not Bill you are in the vast minority when it comes to what is wanted out of a sports game. You might be in the majority within the hardcore sports videogame enthusiasts but you are not even close when it comes to the majority of people that buy sports videogames.
And to be perfectly blunt -- I could not care less about any of that. What the masses think is of absolutely no concern to me when it comes to evaluating a game. Look at the reviews of the abysmal Rush Hour 3. A 19% on Rotten, and yet it's the #1 film in America, making 50 million its opening weekend. (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/movies/box_office.php). Should the movie critics who blasted that tripe piece of crap stop writing critically because a lot of people paid money to see it?

The irony of it is that I gave NCAA '08 a "B" review. Not an F. It still doesn't take away the fact that that game has flaws that should never have made their way into the product.
ScoopBrady wrote:In a perfect world instead of the exclusivity we are seeing there would be annual released by different companies. For instance this year it's Madden 08, next year it's NFL 2k9, the year after that it's Madden 2010, and so on. That would put every game on a 2-year development cycle. Let the developer who can't release that year release a roster update. The problem is it will likely never be like that.
That would indeed be perfect.
ScoopBrady wrote:I can't speak for Teal but I think a lot of sports gamers are starting to focus on what is there rather than what isn't. Going back to the basics of the hobby; having fun. It's really the only way to remain happy as a sports gamer in the current climate.
But you are getting into that gray area of "fun." Fun for you and fun for me might be two very different things. For example, for me, playing against the CPU in NCAA isn't fun because of the interceptions. Is that being overly critical? Shrug. Dunno. Don't care. I'm just being honest about it. If NCAA 08 were the first NCAA football game ever made, then the INTs would be of FAR less concern. I'd be blown away like everyone else. Thing is, it's not the first. It's the 11th. (I think it's up to 11).

The problem, like you hinted at, is the frequency of the releases. We get such a steady stream of releases of the same franchise that when something is broken that wasn't broken in the past it is made that much more significant -- and confusing. If it wasn't broken before then ...why is it now? Legit question.

As for being a happy sports gamer, the exclusive license wars has made that very difficult and has been a serious blow for the hobby, IMO. No one likes limited choice because of stifles creativity and competition. When there are no Joneses to keep up with, things tend to suffer a bit. EA Sports putting a LOT of dev time into NBA Live '08, the NHL games batting back and forth...this is great for the hobby. It also made Madden and NFL 2K MUCH better games.

It's such a fast, immediate results industry. Look at NFL Head Coach: under developed, buggy as hell, but loaded with potential. it sold like crap, and it's vanished w/o a trace. It just seems like there is no room anymore for a franchise to establish a foothold. Same with APF 2K8, another game that was massively underdeveloped and if you listen to 2K, it sounds like the plug might get pulled.

Finally, there is the issue of support. This is another sticking point with me when it comesa to both EA and 2K. I remember the days when you could usually expect at least one healthy PC patch for these games; it was almost expected because people understood that the dev time was so short that it was virtually impossible to get these games "done" in time. We griped. We complained that the games should be done when we paid for them, but deep down we all appreciated the extra effort to get the games working as they should. High Heat is a great example of that. Team .366 listened to feedback and built patches around that. That is unheard of today.

Yes, we get a rare update now and again and usually a patch to fix online stuff but we rarely get a beefy gameplay patch that not only fixes bugs but enhances the game itself. It was the kind of one on one time that gamers got with devs on forums that I think is missed today. Talking with an EA Sports dev on a forum about the game is damn hard to do. You have to go through PR just to interview them and the questions get screened beforehand. It's all very "lockdown" and impersonal and I think it's a detriment.

Anyway, sorry for being long winded. Teal got a bug about the bitching, and I guess I got one about the counter bitching. Full circle. I have a 30 minute date with my daughter and Spongebob. Not to be missed.
No High Scores:
http://www.nohighscores.com/
User avatar
Slumberland
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:00 am

Post by Slumberland »

I've been playing all weekend, having a really good time with it, I must say. So many thoughts! First off, and I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, the game really reminds me of the better last-gen Maddens, in that they've recaptured that smoothness and immediacy of player input. I had a TD run with Thomas Jones against an online opponent where I made it through three defenders, all because of moves I myself managed to choose and execute in a timely manner... felt great. But there are times when I play it, especially with the rather far away (for someone used to 2K) camera, where the proceedings feel like little more than a high-res update of last-gen EA football. The stagnant presentation doesn't help matters either. I'm also a little sad to find that Madden, IMHO, still looks worse than last year's NCAA game, with none of that game's dramatic lighting, and field textures that aren't much better than APF's. But God is in the details, right? And the details definitely set it above anything I played last-gen. So, likes and dislikes...

I LIKE: The blocking. I haven't gotten stuck behind a defender once while running, with the O-line opening noticeable holes that you can seek out and then explode through with turbo. I've seen my halfbacks get skinny. Teammates seem to look for open-field blocks. There's even good blocking on punt returns, which is a first in how long for this franchise? (looking back I think there was one year where they got it, but then it became broken again or something) The passing pocket doesn't feel as sturdy as it does in APF, and that might have something to do with the closer camera in APF where it feels a little easier to keep tabs on the rush out of the corner of your eye, but it's improved.

I DISLIKE: The blocking. I still see things that make me scratch my head. My guys ostensibly double-teaming (gymootg) a D-liner then letting him go right around them without much contact as they turn in tandem and hightail it for the hotdog stand in section A8. Routine plays get blown up in the backfield with too high a frequency to resemble real life.

I LIKE: Superstar mode. Everything about it is better... the camera, the ability to supersim between your appearances. I love it.

I LIKE: The game speed. And by that I mean the transitions between menus and play stoppages and all that jazz. Remember how '06 and '07, it felt like the 360 was choking on everything it had to process, and that meant weird pauses, useless button pressing and wasted time? This feels like a finished piece of software.

I DISLIKE: Other aspects of how fast the game goes. The CPU often hikes with 30 seconds left on the playclock, and doesn't even think about managing the game clock until the last minute. I think this is a conscious decision, designed to squeeze more plays out of 5-minute quarters (which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing), but it leaves almost no time for defensive adjustments. I'm having to learn to pull them off really fast, and try and read the offense as it's coming to the line. There's no accelerated clock, it seems. Add this all together and I think a lot of people are going to be annoyed. Personally, I prefer 5-min. quarters if possible, and this gets me closer to realistic scores and stats with default lengths. I ain't got all day... the fiancee wants to watch The Soup, and I can't blame her.

EH: Weapons. It feels vaguely like the player abilities in APF, bu what's best about it is how it functions as a handy at-a-glance visual index for team strengths while on the field, great for people who aren't such fans as to know the intricacies of every team's strengths, by position (like me!). You hold down left trigger and it highlights all the weapons on the field at a given time... very handy for knowing which way to direct a run play when the opponent has one side stacked with heavy hitters. There's also some play-stealing available for smart QB's and linebackers, but I haven't utilized it yet.

I REALLY LIKE: Create-a-team is back! Some nice stadium editing tools included as well. I always enjoy making my own teams, and they even generate two alternate uniforms for your team by randomizing color combos and details. They generate complete fictional rosters for your teams based on a handful of templates, so no having to steal an existing team's. There are some glitches... like my Flushing Firebirds having two players wearing #26, but no biggie. I can now fulfill my dream of re-creating all the APF teams in Madden.
:)

JURY'S STILL OUT: Turnovers. I was intercepting the CPU at a clip of about 3-5 times per game to start, especially when experimenting with longer quarter lengths. It seems to have cooled off a bit, for some reason. Again, I think the game might be tuned to 5 min. quarters and casual players, but what do I know? Fumbles have been a slight frustration for me, but in 50% of cases it's something unwise on my part, like trying to juke with my tight end after a catch instead of just protecting the ball. The interceptions are something to keep an eye on, but in my Jets franchise it has not been an issue in the slightest. Maybe 1 per side with 5 min. quarters, if any.

I REALLY LIKE: The CPU offense. They seem to really mix it up.

I LIKE: Tackling. Some big hits his year, with a lot of variety. You can hit high or low, like in APF. Gang tackling has some of that sweet APF feel, where the offense needs 3 yards, you get to him after two, he's still fighting for it, and then another defender comes in and helps knock him back. Backs with the 'truck' weapon classification are more likely to fall forward when fighting for yards. Neat.

BIG DISAPPOINTMENT: Forget uploading clips, I can't even do snapshots from replays. This was in last year's NCAA! Do they even play each other's games over at EA?

I'll stop there, but I think it's a good game this year. If anything, when comparing it to APF, I think what happens on the field in Madden is a little more influenced by user twitch input, which is sort of great. Occasionally in APF, when two players collide, I feel like I'm watching animations play out with number-crunching behind the scenes. Throw in the 'A' pounding for turbo and it can get messy. No to turn this into a Madden-vs.-APF thing, but it's illustrative in some cases. Special teams blocking is a hands down win for Madden. And I've always thought player control was more immediate in Madden, but to no real end because of other deficiencies with the engine. With some of the AI and tackling improvements that player control is finally starting to amount to something.

I do think that devout sim players are going to have a lot of frustration trying to find that perfect stew of quarter length, settings, and sliders, due to the slightly turnover-heavy nature of the game, the removal of the acc. clock, and the CPU clock management. We'll see... that's a game I feel no need to play this year. But it looks like Madden might be.

Okay, I lied when I said I'd 'stop there'. I wish the game looked better and had better presentation. I'm constantly amazed at Tiburon's lack of vision for how the sole license holder for the country's most popular sport should look and sound. I want to be wowed, and this is so far from those 'target vids' back in the day, I can only shake my head. Oh well. For a Madden game, it's really good. But Tiburon seems to aggressively put a cap on what our expectations for an NFL game might be, to the point that it's difficult to even trust my own impressions. How's that for muddled?

If 'live opponent' for franchise is truly removed, that's a big shame. I haven't tried to find it yet, personally.
User avatar
Slumberland
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:00 am

Post by Slumberland »

Let me also add that I hate how they spin the runner's view around on special teams in APF at the last possible second, so you can't even see the defenders coming that your teammates probably won't block anyway. That the special teams cam in Madden is 200% more sanely implemented is a big plus.
User avatar
bkrich83
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Carlsbad, Ca.

Post by bkrich83 »

Bill_Abner wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:
To be fair though, I think Teal has a point. I do believe EA is held to a different standard than other game companies. Especially when it comes to football.
Well, not by me.
I am not sure that's totally true.
-BK
User avatar
Teal
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 8620
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 3:00 am

Post by Teal »

Alright, I get it-I'll leave it alone. I simply don't need my video games to mimic real life down to the last detail, and I'm not sure I want to. Every stinkin' sports game, it seems, MUST be absolute sim to some of you, and I just don't understand it. I personally don't LIKE getting my ass handed to me by the CPU, and some of you aren't happy until it can. Okay. We just see things WAY differently.

I personally think EA does a good job under a scrutiny FAR too intense for the product it puts out. To some, they can't win for anything. To me, they've done an excellent job with NCAA, and I'm sure Madden for the most part, I've loved Tiger for years, and will continue to. They're just games...

And I'm done.
www.trailheadoutfitters.org
trailheadoutfitters.wordpress.com
facebook.com/Intentional.Fatherhood
User avatar
10spro
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 13936
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 4:00 am

Post by 10spro »

By far the best installment of the Madden series for the 360. The CPU AI plays you tough. Perhaps too tough in some instances. I am getting intercepted an average of 2-3 times playing 5 minutes quarters.
kevinpars
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:00 am

Post by kevinpars »

Teal, there is nothing wrong with that attitude - it is probably a better attitude to have than to pick a game apart. And actually, I am able to do that with some sports games like NHL and Tiger Woods. Hell, I was probably the only person here who preferred March Madness to 2K's BB game.

And honestly, flawed or not, I will probably use more electricity than Al Gore this winter just playing NCAA on the 360.

Edit - what I am hearing about Madden so far sounds good. It sounds like the deep ball is as tough in Madden as it is in NCAA. That is good - personally i love playing offense in NCAA this year as you get punished for mistakes and the yards get tougher in the red zone. I feel a real sense of accomplishment when I get in the endzone after a 10 play drive.
User avatar
MizzouRah
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 8198
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:00 am
Location: Troy, Mo

Post by MizzouRah »

..and this is why I LOVE DS!

No BS, just straight answers from sports gamers. I agree with Bill some and I definitly see teal's points.

Thanks for the impressions Slumberland!
User avatar
bkrich83
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Carlsbad, Ca.

Post by bkrich83 »

Is anyone else planning to get the PC version? I thought it was by far the best of the bunch last year, and I think I might give it a shot again this year.
-BK
User avatar
Danimal
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 12182
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:00 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Contact:

Post by Danimal »

I am getting the PC version and 360.

I also can't belive you guys just filled two pages slamming a game most of you haven't even played yet.
Follow Me on:
YouTube - www.youtube.com/maxpixelation/
Twitch - twitch.tv/maximumpixelation
Twitter - twitter.com/maxpixelation
User avatar
bkrich83
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 1878
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Carlsbad, Ca.

Post by bkrich83 »

Danimal wrote:I am getting the PC version and 360.

I also can't belive you guys just filled two pages slamming a game most of you haven't even played yet.
You've been here long enough. Do you really find it that unbelievable?
-BK
User avatar
dbdynsty25
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 21618
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Post by dbdynsty25 »

bkrich83 wrote:Is anyone else planning to get the PC version? I thought it was by far the best of the bunch last year, and I think I might give it a shot again this year.
I will probably be getting the PC, PSP and 360 versions.
Inuyasha
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 4638
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 3:00 am

Post by Inuyasha »

game is sounding good. For the first time in years, I am actually looking forward to an NFL football game. Maybe it's because I completely passed on NCAA this year. Just off the vids, the game comes off more as old school madden than anything else. Not sure if that means anything, but it's got me excited.
User avatar
Danimal
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 12182
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:00 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Contact:

Post by Danimal »

bkrich83 wrote:
Danimal wrote:I am getting the PC version and 360.

I also can't belive you guys just filled two pages slamming a game most of you haven't even played yet.
You've been here long enough. Do you really find it that unbelievable?
Kind of, I mean maybe I am misunderstanding the argument. I expect it from some people but some of the people in here I don't get. At least here we used to give a game a shot before killing & burying it.
Follow Me on:
YouTube - www.youtube.com/maxpixelation/
Twitch - twitch.tv/maximumpixelation
Twitter - twitter.com/maxpixelation
User avatar
Slumberland
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:00 am

Post by Slumberland »

Inuyasha wrote:Just off the vids, the game comes off more as old school madden than anything else.
I think that sums it up, with some noticeable A.I. and gameplay enhancements, plus a hint of next-gen razzle dazzle. Not as much as there probably should/could be, but it's there.

I haven't seen a game in bad weather yet. I imagine the rain doesn't bounce off the helmets? I love that in APF. I know that sounds like an OS question, but oh well!
User avatar
JRod
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:00 am

Post by JRod »

Danimal wrote:I am getting the PC version and 360.

I also can't belive you guys just filled two pages slamming a game most of you haven't even played yet.
We're bored... :D
[url=http://sensiblecoasters.wordpress.com/][b]Sensible Coasters - A critique of sports games, reviews, gaming sites and news. Questionably Proofread![/b][/url]
User avatar
Brando70
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 7597
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:00 am
Location: In Transition, IL

Post by Brando70 »

I would like to thank Slumber and 10 for putting actual impressions in an impressions thread!

I haven't played a lot of Madden the last couple years, and honestly I think the break reinvigorated my interest in it. I can't wait to pick it up this week.
fsquid
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 6155
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:00 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Post by fsquid »

I'm getting the PC version. This is the first time I'll play the PC version. Does it usually have the features that the next gen games have or the previous gen?
User avatar
dbdynsty25
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 21618
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 3:00 am
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

Post by dbdynsty25 »

fsquid wrote:I'm getting the PC version. This is the first time I'll play the PC version. Does it usually have the features that the next gen games have or the previous gen?
Previous.
User avatar
10spro
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 13936
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 4:00 am

Post by 10spro »

One thing I also noticed is that there is no stuttering after the play ends in Madden 08, whereas in NCAA you get that very subtle but definitive stuttering. The player models are sweeeet looking, especially during close ups when you see their faces. In the passing department, I seem to have more control than NCAA especially trying to lob one. I am having fun running with the ball too by following your blocks ( I've seen S. Alexander pushing the offensive linemen to get that extra yard when the hole gets smaller) and not speed bursting and like I mentioned in the other thread, stiff arming at the opportune time will give you a big smile.

Create a team is a big plus but I wished the overall atmosphere and audio was better. In fact I choose to ask Madden for some suggestion plays, just to hear his voice beats the heck out of the annoying radio annoucers. I like the onfield icons too, if I see a secondary that's speedy, I'll try to throw the ball the other way. The key thing is to remember what each icon means. I think there are more than 20 new weapon icons that I read so far in the manual.

Lots of new animations especially the breakaways. So far, my only disappointment is the way the CPU comes up with interceptions. Either it's too much or I am just not reading the plays properly.
User avatar
warnerwlf98
Panda Cub
Panda Cub
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:00 am
Location: Northern AZ

Post by warnerwlf98 »

10spro wrote:
I like the onfield icons too, if I see a secondary that's speedy, I'll try to throw the ball the other way. The key thing is to remember what each icon means. I think there are more than 20 new weapon icons that I read so far in the manual.
This is a good idea to know who's who while you're on the field to know who to exploit and stay away from. The funny thing is, this feature used to be in NCAA - the matchup stick. Why they took it out and replaced it with seeing your team's motivation level is beyond me.
Inuyasha
DSP-Funk All-Star
DSP-Funk All-Star
Posts: 4638
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 3:00 am

Post by Inuyasha »

Bill Simmons on espn.com has a podcast review of madden 08 plus history of football gaming.
Post Reply