OT: NBA 2005-2006 Season Discussion

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:53 am

Peja is definitely a sign-and-trade possibility this off-season. The Pacers' payroll is so high that I just don't see them being willing to give him $10 mil or whatever he'll end up getting. It gives them a jump start on rebuilding the team, at least.

Does Rick Adelman strike anyone else as the opposite of what Artest needs as a coach?

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:36 am

I just don't see alot to gain here for the Kings.

Sure, Artest is a great defender, but that's only if his head is right(we don't know if it is).

But even with Ron, they still have a weak bench, wich was their biggest strength all of those years they where contenders(or pretenders).

I like the trade for the Pacers.

They get rid of a headcase and get Peja who will help them alot with his shooting IMO.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:55 am

Compared to what they've been getting from Peja over the last year and a half, Artest is a more effective offensive player. He isn't a great shooter by any means, but he is good at using his strength to post up small forwards or even just bully them towards the hoop. They aren't the fun, run and gun Kings anymore and Artest's arrival will make them more effective...as long as he's on the court.

But what did the Kings have to lose?

From the Pacers end, the success of this trade will be measured as much in the off-season as during the season (unless Peja improbably lifts them up a few notches). Can they keep Peja or turn him into something that will improve them next year?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:24 pm

Exactly Dave...Peja has been garbage in any games that matter. Plus he's a liability defensively. Artest gives them some toughness, a better overall offensive game and someone who actually plays some defense. Peja woulda been gone this offseason anyway, so getting a player of Artest's calibur for him at this point is huge. Peja has clearly taken a step backwards and he'll never been the same shooter that he was. Sure, it's a gamble to bring on a guy like Artest...but then again, Adelman is a lame duck coach anyway, who appears to be on his way out regardless.

Brilliant move by the Kings in my book. Even if Artest flames out in a month or two years.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:24 pm

Pacers gain perhaps one of the better shooters today while Kings gain one of the better perimeter defenders. Fair trade for Indy minus the headaches.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:28 pm

10spro wrote:Pacers gain perhaps one of the better shooters today while Kings gain one of the better perimeter defenders. Fair trade for Indy minus the headaches.

Peja hasn't been one of the better shooters for nearly 3 years. The guy has been a disaster and in a steady decline since the 03-04 playoffs. Not exactly a fair trade.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:35 pm

Peja's numbers are down this season, but he's going to a contender team and his play will improve. He's a career 40% 3 point shooter.

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:44 pm

Bye bye Babcock, finally.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:49 pm

Lets see...

03-04

24.4 ppg, 43% 3pt, 48% FG

You're right...that is a badass season.

Now lets look at the last two seasons:

04-05

20.1 ppg, 40% 3pt, 44% FG

05-06

16.5 ppg, 39% 3pt, 40% FG

If that's not regression...I don't know what is. He's clearly on the downside of his career. 40% FG shooting from one of the best shooters in the league? I think not.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:54 pm

It'll be interesting to see if being around his "idol," Larry Bird, will help motivate Peja.

I'm just happy that the Pacers didn't get some Olowokandi/Hassell type combination in return.

Artest's offensive abilities seem to be very underrated. Sure, he isn't a true scorer, but he can be damn effective.

The Kings weren't going anywhere before Artest, so it is a gamble, but still a huge upgrade, IMO.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:08 pm

Artest isn't a True Scorer...he's a TRU WARRIOR remember.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:18 pm

DB, your spelling wasn't idiotic enough. He's a Tru Warier.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:30 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Lets see...

03-04

24.4 ppg, 43% 3pt, 48% FG

You're right...that is a badass season.

Now lets look at the last two seasons:

04-05

20.1 ppg, 40% 3pt, 44% FG

05-06

16.5 ppg, 39% 3pt, 40% FG

If that's not regression...I don't know what is. He's clearly on the downside of his career. 40% FG shooting from one of the best shooters in the league? I think not.

Yeah, changes of scenery never help.

Ask Vince Carter.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:44 pm

It certainly helped Vince when he actually started TRYING in the first place.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:02 pm

Airdog wrote:Bye bye Babcock, finally.

Come on, I really enjoyed going to the ACC and watching the Raps get blown out by the Bulls last night. You could really see why he made the Vince trade- Aaron and Eric Williams provided adequate water to teammates when they appeared thirsty, and Mourning's presense, even it was only take a buyout cheque from Babcock, is still paying dividends for the young guys on the team. And then there's the hope of the draft pick received from Denver for next year for Vince, which should turn out to be a solid #20 spot.

All of that, and watching Hoffa develop into a formidable 2 pt./5 foul a night guy has been a positive sign for all Raptor fans.

Sorry to see you go...

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:06 pm

Don't bring back the memories. It saddens me.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:08 pm

Babcock's record speaks for itself but it does look like he was right about Charlie Villanueva. CV looks like he'll be a nice player, at least on some nights.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:30 pm

Peja will be just fine, although I don't know if it will happen this year in a Pacers jersey. He's only 28; he's just had nagging injuries over the last two years and he went and married a super-duper model to make things worse. No reason at all why he shouldn't return to being a 20PPG scorer... and he's still the best shooter in the NBA as far as I can tell. He's just not a number one guy or much of a leader.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:48 pm

Kazuya wrote:No reason at all why he shouldn't return to being a 20PPG scorer... and he's still the best shooter in the NBA as far as I can tell.

Yeah, 40% on the season is outstanding.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:52 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:No reason at all why he shouldn't return to being a 20PPG scorer... and he's still the best shooter in the NBA as far as I can tell.
Yeah, 40% on the season is outstanding.

So who's the best shooter in the league? Tony Parker?

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:59 pm

Michael Redd, maybe?

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:10 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:Michael Redd, maybe?

A pretty good name to throw out there... I think it looks something like this:

Allen/Stojakovic

Redd/Nowitzki/Nash/Korver

Bibby/Billups/Terry/Szczerbiak/M.Miller/E.House

These are just off the top of my head, but these are the guys I think of when you see them standing open and it's like, "Automatic 3". Probably left off somebody.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:19 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:It certainly helped Vince when he actually started TRYING in the first place.

Yes, there's a big difference between declining and being a p***y.

No question the Kings got the better end of the deal. Peja could snap back, but he's a one-dimensional player even when he was great at that one dimension. I wouldn't be surprised if he bounces back a bit in a new situation, but he's not as good of a player as Artest.

However, if I turned on the news and heard "Ron Artest beats Bonzi Wells to death with a folding chair," I would be horrified, but I wouldn't be surprised. There's something to be said for that.

Honestly, I think it will wind up not doing much for either team. Artest will probably keep acting up, and Peja isn't going to repair Jermaine O'Neal's groin.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:04 pm

Kazuya wrote:
sfz_T-car wrote:Michael Redd, maybe?
A pretty good name to throw out there... I think it looks something like this:

Allen/Stojakovic

Redd/Nowitzki/Nash/Korver

Bibby/Billups/Terry/Szczerbiak/M.Miller/E.House

These are just off the top of my head, but these are the guys I think of when you see them standing open and it's like, "Automatic 3". Probably left off somebody.

I'll take Rip Hamilton and almost everyone else on your list before Peja...especially this year. I really don't see how you can even put him on your list when he is shooting 40%...OVERALL. That's not even his 3pt %...that's TOTAL. Rip is shooting over 51.2% overall and 50.1% from 3 (sure he doesn't shoot as many but that's not what we're debating)...that is a good shooter.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:35 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
I'll take Rip Hamilton and almost everyone else on your list before Peja...especially this year. I really don't see how you can even put him on your list when he is shooting 40%...OVERALL. That's not even his 3pt %...that's TOTAL. Rip is shooting over 51.2% overall and 50.1% from 3 (sure he doesn't shoot as many but that's not what we're debating)...that is a good shooter.

It's just circumstances. It's why Rip is shooting 32% for his career from 3 point land, but shooting well this year. It's why Joe Johnson was 48% last year and 34% this year. The circumstances around every season are different. When you put Peja on the floor with great passers like Chris Webber and Vlade Divac, he gets better looks than say being on the floor with Bonzi and Kenny. I'm not saying he's shooting well this year (although he's not shooting that bad when you factor in all the threes), I'm just saying that he's the best shooter. If you stick him and Rip five feet behind the 3 point line, I guarantee you Peja will destroy him in a shooting contest. Rip is probably as good as anyone at mid-range shooting though, but so is Peja. And they are both good free-throw shooters too (Rip career 85%, Peja 90%).

If Peja has five bad seasons in a row (and when I say bad I mean far worse than this, because his current adj. FG% is 49% which is far from bad) then I would concede that maybe he can't shoot anymore. But it's going to take a lot more than a season and a half of injuries and average shooting for me to do that. You have to remember, this guy finished fourth in the MVP voting not even 2 years ago, and people were loudly proclaiming him among the best shooters in the history of the NBA. I seriously doubt all that skill faded away... unless he was indeed struck down Tiger-style for marrying a super duper model...