Wii U - 11/18 @ $300/350

[pk500]

The Wii U enthusiasts at DSP are among a shrinking breed:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-1 ... games.html

Ouch.

[Spooky]

Yeah - it's really a mess of a platform. But at the same time I absolutely love the console. I think the Gamepad concept is awesome and when integrated well it's the best gaming experience I've had in a long time. Even third party apps like Hulu+ use it really well.

I think it boils down to 2 huge mistakes on the big 'N's part - really poor marketing and a horrible launch window software release. The launch timing being at the end of the last gen consoles lifespan and before the new next-gen didn't help either.

I'm a sucker for the Nintendo franchise games like Mario, DK, Zelda, etc...as a lot of other people are. And even with that they somehow screwed up the launch with a lack of quality titles. They also need to be as innovative with their games as they are with their consoles. Why have we not seen a new franchise character alongside the new innovative gameplay style?

They make a lot of very odd choices but at the end of the day they still have a magic touch on their big first party titles that no one can match.

[Rodster]

Nintendo still makes the most enjoyable games. They may no longer be innovative but they certainly are fun and creative. Animal Crossing to this day is just wacky fun at all the stuff you can do and pull off in that game. So my purchase of the Wii U along with the Wii and Gamecube were strictly for Nintendo 1st party games.

They do need to update their business model and what the article said is what wco81 has been saying for awhile that a lot of the developers have shifted or moved to mobile devices. Those that stay working on consoles are those that mostly produce the blockbuster titles for Sony or Microsoft.

The other problem Nintendo has had in the past and they still suffer from today is that their games are usually so good that most purchasers of their system ignore anything else other than Nintendo games or it at least has to be a quality game. There really aren't a whole lot of quality 3rd party games and EA not supporting the Wii U hasn't helped either.

[sportdan30]

It's definitely a sad state of affairs. But, Nintendo is squarely to blame IMO. It was piss poor marketing from the start, going with the name "Wii U". The majority of Moms and Dads thought it was an add on to the Wii, not a new console. Over New Year's Eve, I had two separate adults say they weren't aware there was a new Ninendo console, and thought it must be a add on for their Wii.

Then, you have a system that is clearly under powered compared to the Xbox One and PS4. Right then and there, you're going to have a heck of time convincing third party support to want to develop for an inferior system, when everyone pretty much could predict that true next gen games are going to sell significantly better on MS and Sony's systems.

I love the Gamepad believe it's quite beneficial and enjoyable to use with many of their games. That said, it's the only controller to ship with the system. If you didn't keep your Wii around, you have to rebuy a Wiimote, a nunchuck, and if you want the best experience, a Pro controller. All this adds up pretty quickly in price. IMO, Nintendo should have ditched the Wiimote and nunchuck, and packed the Wii U with a Gamepad and Pro Controller.

Nintendo's top games hardly ever drop in price. Why? Who knows, but they seem to have the mindset of Apple and keep their prices high.

It truly is a special system, and has games for young and old, but they royally messed things up from the beginning. It'll be interesting to see where they go from here.

[RobVarak]

It's always been interesting for me to observe Nintendo. My gaming days extend back to pre-Atari home pong machines, so I've seen them all. Despite this, I had this weird gap where the original NES and SEGA were concerned. During the height of their popularity, I was up to my elbows in C64 and Apple II gaming and looked up on the consoles with utter scorn.

I'm not proud of it and it cost me some wonderful gaming experiences, but it also bought me a weird sense of perspective with Nintendo. I appreciate what they do, but I don't have the same emotional response to them that I do other things (like the early SSI strategy games or Atari carts) I've owned many subsequent systems (N64, Wii, Gameboy and assorted DS's). There is certainly a sense that even when things are going badly for them, they are going to remain fat and happy because of their invulnerability in Japan and their core of first-party IP.

This is the first time I've ever really doubted that fact. I feel like they've watered down their IP with just too many games of inconsistent quality. I think the success of the Wii was so staggering that it completely distorted their understanding of the market for both hardware and software.

I'm sure they'll recover, but it's been an interesting turn of events.

[Naples39]

I was incredibly enthusiastic for the Wii, and I enjoyed my DS for a while, but I abandoned Nintendo a few years ago.

I think there are 2 things happening here; total abandonment by core gamers, and casual gamers switching to phones tablets.

The Wii was more successful than anyone could have imagined, but it was lightning in a bottle, not to be repeated, and it ultimately had the negative effect of masking Nintendo's structural problems while they were actually festering under the surface.

Nintendo tried to cling to the model of under-powered hardware sold at a profit, and relying on a core of the same franchises being re-hashed again and again. GameCube was quirky but had its fans; Wii soon became persona non grata to most core gamers, and 3rd party publishers simply quit trying to sell games on their systems.

They tried to hit some of the same notes with Wii U, but core gamers were long gone and scoffed at the Wii U, and casual gamers/kids/Aunt Maude moved on. They could get their quick fix on their phones/tablets, which were ubiquitous, with addictive (if disposable software) that was <$3 or even free.

It's sad news, but the reality is I am much more likely to be playing quality Nintendo games in the future if they get out of the console business.

[wco81]

I was incredibly enthusiastic for the Wii, and I enjoyed my DS for a while, but I abandoned Nintendo a few years ago.

I think there are 2 things happening here; total abandonment by core gamers, and casual gamers switching to phones tablets.

The Wii was more successful than anyone could have imagined, but it was lightning in a bottle, not to be repeated, and it ultimately had the negative effect of masking Nintendo's structural problems while they were actually festering under the surface.

Nintendo tried to cling to the model of under-powered hardware sold at a profit, and relying on a core of the same franchises being re-hashed again and again. GameCube was quirky but had its fans; Wii soon became persona non grata to most core gamers, and 3rd party publishers simply quit trying to sell games on their systems.

They tried to hit some of the same notes with Wii U, but core gamers were long gone and scoffed at the Wii U, and casual gamers/kids/Aunt Maude moved on. They could get their quick fix on their phones/tablets, which were ubiquitous, with addictive (if disposable software) that was <$3 or even free.

It's sad news, but the reality is I am much more likely to be playing quality Nintendo games in the future if they get out of the console business.

This is it in a nutshell. The Wii's success was unexpected. Because it was underpowered like their previous consoles (GC), it was assumed the Wii would suffer the same fate. But the waggle and Wii Sports made it a big hit with a lot of people who normally wouldn't game. It caught on for party gaming.

Wii U was suppose to offer more power. But to core gamers, Nintendo had a bad rep as offering less bang for the buck and gimmicks instead. So they waited for PS4 and XB1 and skipped the Wii U.

Meanwhile, it would seem a lot of the people who tried the Wii for the first time playing a console went on to play games like Candy Crush Saga.


Some people are interpreting comments Iwata made in the past day or two as Nintendo looking at releasing games for other mobile devices.

[pigpen81]

Hmmm....sold 500,000 in December and it is failing

5,000,000 consoles and it is failing?

Well, no matter as this console is giving myself and my family boatloads of fun.

The Dreamcast wasn't a failure in my eyes as well as the Gamecube. Great fun!

The Wiiu is right there with them and maybe even a notch above.

[Zeppo]

Hmmm....sold 500,000 in December and it is failing

5,000,000 consoles and it is failing?

Well, no matter as this console is giving myself and my family boatloads of fun.

The Dreamcast wasn't a failure in my eyes as well as the Gamecube. Great fun!

The Wiiu is right there with them and maybe even a notch above.

Did you not read the linked article? Then perhaps a few highlights:

"Nintendo fell the most in more than 12 years in the U.S. yesterday."

"...after forecasting a surprise 25 billion-yen ($240 million) annual loss because of tepid demand for the Wii U."

"The company had previously projected profit of 55 billion yen for the year ending March as it counted on Christmas shoppers to revive sales of the Wii U console...."

That's an 80 billion yen negative shift in projections, about 767 million dollars less revenue than they'd expected.

"Nintendo cut its forecasts for Wii U console sales to 2.8 million units from 9 million and for Wii U game sales to 19 million units from 38 million."

So they sold less than a third the number of consoles over the last year than they had expectd, and half as many games. Pretty much hard to call it anything but a failure. They sold 100 million Wii consoles. So far they've sold just over 5.3 million Wii U in two years. They ain't getting to 100 million at that pace. (EDIT The Wii U has been out only one year, since Nov 2012. My mistake!)

If I were a shareholder, I'd be pretty pissed off. I'm sure they are still sitting on a mountain of cash, but that won't be the case for long if they continue in this fashion.

The Dreamcast was a great platform, but don't you think if it had performed better then Sega might still be in the console business? As awesome as the games we loved to play on it were for us, the Dreamcast is the product that all but killed that company.

[Rodster]

Has the Wii U been out 2 years already? I thought it was released in late 2012? Sales are definitely poor but I do enjoy the Nintendo 1st party games.

[Zeppo]

Has the Wii U been out 2 years already? I thought it was released in late 2012? Sales are definitely poor but I do enjoy the Nintendo 1st party games.

You are correct - my mistake. It's been one year; came out in Nov 2012. Oops.

Still 5.3 units sold worldwide in one year is a pace that would take nearly 20 years to get to 100M units, so it's not a success. The Xbone and PS4 have sold over 3M and 4M respectively worldwide in just two months, and neither has yet released in all their global territories.

[Pete1210]

I'm sure they are still sitting on a mountain of cash, but that won't be the case for long if they continue in this fashion.

IGN article stated that Nintendo has cash reserves of approx. 10 billion US dollars.

Which means that Nintendo could make a loss of the projected proportions for 20 or 30 years without running out of money. (Naturally if Nintendo actually did make a loss for 20 consecutive years then we really would have good cause for concern, but in principle, the company could afford it.)

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/01/17/do ... ii-u-fails

[wco81]

You also have to look at what's happening to their cash flow, what it was a couple of years ago and what it is now.

Nintendo has tried to appeal to core gamers, like the more serious-looking Metroid and some other titles which was suppose to be more appealing to people who liked shooters.

But the core gamers have skipped over them the past couple of generations so they have to try to appeal to the casual gaming people who bought up those Wiis.

That market may be long gone though.

[pigpen81]

Has the Wii U been out 2 years already? I thought it was released in late 2012? Sales are definitely poor but I do enjoy the Nintendo 1st party games.

You are correct - my mistake. It's been one year; came out in Nov 2012. Oops.

Still 5.3 units sold worldwide in one year is a pace that would take nearly 20 years to get to 100M units, so it's not a success. The Xbone and PS4 have sold over 3M and 4M respectively worldwide in just two months, and neither has yet released in all their global territories.

Zep, my point is that it is sad that a console has to sell "100 million" to be deemed a success.

I remember a new console was on solid footing if it sold a million twenty years ago.

The industry we all love is now on the same level of Hollywood. Games with 1,000 member teams (GTA).

Games having to sell 1,000,000 copies to be deemed a success.

It is sad

I am tired of blockbuster games and just want fun, inventive experiences. The Wiiu is providing that at this time and I will be saving up for a steam box most likely.

[Zeppo]

Has the Wii U been out 2 years already? I thought it was released in late 2012? Sales are definitely poor but I do enjoy the Nintendo 1st party games.

You are correct - my mistake. It's been one year; came out in Nov 2012. Oops.

Still 5.3 units sold worldwide in one year is a pace that would take nearly 20 years to get to 100M units, so it's not a success. The Xbone and PS4 have sold over 3M and 4M respectively worldwide in just two months, and neither has yet released in all their global territories.

Zep, my point is that it is sad that a console has to sell "100 million" to be deemed a success.

I remember a new console was on solid footing if it sold a million twenty years ago.

The industry we all love is now on the same level of Hollywood. Games with 1,000 member teams (GTA).

Games having to sell 1,000,000 copies to be deemed a success.

It is sad

I am tired of blockbuster games and just want fun, inventive experiences. The Wiiu is providing that at this time and I will be saving up for a steam box most likely.

I don't think that twenty years ago, there were nearly as many territories in which the consoles you refer to were sold. The market has expanded immensely since the early 90s. Huge parts of Europe and Asia that are now part of the market for games consoles were not part of the picture then. I don't think South America really factored in either.

I also think the margins for the manufactures are much smaller now than they were back then, although I could be wrong about that. But my understanding is that the economics of hardware requires they sell close to or into the 100M numbers these days in order to make a resonable profit, in large part because the cost of developing these much more powerful, complex machines is much higher.

It's a different world in terms of consumer electronics than it was twenty years ago in many very large ways. There are nearly 1.6 billion more people on the planet now than there were in 1994 and a much larger percentage of that population is part of the market for these things than was the case back then. Heck, there are nearly 50 M more people in the USA now than there were in 1994.

[Rodster]

TRU has a deal this week. If you buy Donkey Kong Tropical Breeze Wii U (excellent reviews), you can buy up to 3 Nintendo games at 40% off. I got Pikmin 3 $36 and Mario Galaxy 2 Wii for $17

[Spooky]

I'm having a blast with the new Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze! Lots of reviews claiming it's great but difficult. At first I thought the difficulty was no problem but then I hit the later stages in World 2. Still have yet to be actually frustrated though...we'll see...

[sportdan30]

I'm having a blast with the new Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze! Lots of reviews claiming it's great but difficult. At first I thought the difficulty was no problem but then I hit the later stages in World 2. Still have yet to be actually frustrated though...we'll see...

Just picked it up this evening. Can't wait to get some time with it this weekend!

[sportdan30]

Ton of buzz from many sites along with hands on impressions of the yet to be finished Mario Kart 8. Besides The Show 14, this ranks very high as one of my most anticipated games of 2014. Looking forward to May 30th.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/03/ ... edibly-fun

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/mario ... -wall.aspx

[pigpen81]

My son wants to me download the just re-released GBA Advance Wars.

Great game and will be fun to play on the gamepad. Perfect game for an almost 8 year old.

Ditto the MK8 anticipation, we loved watching the newly released trailer earlier this evening.

[sportdan30]

Nice hands on preview video of Mario Kart 8. Really looking forward to this game.

Nintendo is coming out with Mario Kart 8 Wii U bundles in Europe.

http://youtu.be/aLfLbxmtr9A

[Pete1210]

Best Buy is offering a $10 Gas Card with Mario Kart 8 pre-orders. (that's real gas for your real car, not an in game thing)

Also Nintendo is offering a one of four games as a free digital download if you register Mario Kart 8 by July 31st. Choose from:

Pikman3
Legend of Zelda
Super Mario Bros Wii U
WiiU Party

[sportdan30]

Mario Kart 8 review

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/05/15/ma ... t-8-review

[Rodster]

I just snagged a copy on Ebay for $54.50 with free shipping. Eurogamer gave it a perfect 10.

[pigpen81]

My boys and I are VERY excited for it.