Tiger Woods hurt in car accident

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JackB1
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Post by JackB1 »

Gangrel wrote: Until the whole story is out, I think it's impossible to fully judge Tiger. And as there probably won't be any type of court case, i doubt we will get all of the details, so you are then comparing apples to oranges.

IF we are to pretend all of the Tiger stuff is fact, I say what Vick did was worse. In my books, murder will always rank above adultery."
While it may be too early to judge Tiger, the facts seem to be that he has been cheating on his wife for a while. I had this discussion with a co-worker and he couldn't believe I thought that "murdering animals" was FAR worse than cheating on a "human being". He said "It's a Dog!"....this is a PERSON"!!! It's the old dog vs. people argument.

They were debating this on Atlanta sports radio and the main argument seems to be that Vick broke the law, whereas Tiger did not. Is it as simple as that?
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Post by GameSeven »

JackB1 wrote:It's the old dog vs. people argument.
No, it's not. Evaluating adulterous behavior with killing is the paramount argument in your post. To seek out a moral equivalency you would need to compare reasonably similar crimes.

For example, is a person who cheats on a spouse worse than someone who cheats on their pet?

Is a person who kills a human worse than someone who kills an animal?

Is a dog who is not monogamous worse than a human who is not?

Is a dog that kills a human worse than one that kills another dog?
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Post by dbdynsty25 »

Last time I checked...adultery isn't illegal. Killing dogs is. There you have it.
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Post by lexbur »

JackB1 wrote:
They were debating this on Atlanta sports radio and the main argument seems to be that Vick broke the law, whereas Tiger did not. Is it as simple as that?
I think it is that simple. What did Vick get, two years in jail? Imagine if every guy who cheated on his wife got two years.

And I'm not worried about Elin and the kids either. Whether they get $300 million or *only* $50 million, either way, they're making out alot better than those dogs did.

It takes a special kind of sicko to do what Vick did. Alot of guys cheat on their wives.
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Post by Teal »

Paul, if you think his personal life is your concern, then carry on. I don't think his personal life is any of our collective damned business. And I don't know where the Ward Cleaver/ Mayberry bullshit comes from, but it's just that.

The main difference between what was and what is, is that we've got the mindset that everyone else's business is OUR business, because bottom feeders like TMZ and ET say it is.

He f***ed up, he admitted it. Moreso than I believe he should have to. He and his wife have some things to work through. Where WE fit into all that is an unsolvable mystery.

Leave the f***in guy alone.
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Post by ScoopBrady »

Just out of curiousity Teal, did you read any of these stories about Tiger? Seems to me the best way to make your point about just leaving Tiger alone would be to avoid reading or listening to the reports about it. The media is going to report what the public wants to hear and by reading or listening to these reports it gives them the impression that people want to hear about it. I'm just sayin'. :wink:
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Post by JRod »

Vick was convicted of a crime and dropped from his sponsorship deals. Tiger woods was cited for a traffic violation. Take out the adultery and I don't think his Nike contract says he can't get a ticket. Maybe there's a professional conduct phrase but is Nike really going to drop Tiger for this. They would be stupid to do so. Because if Tiger starts winning majors, no one will remember this. And when or if he breaks Jack's record, the media who was against him now, will praise him as the greatest athlete of our time. And all this will be looked back as a "slip up by Tiger" but nothing more than a blip on his career. Winning and time gives people very selective memory.

The argument of Vick versus Tiger is pretty stupid.

That reasoning shouldn't be allowed in the same thread as Brando's excellent post.
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Post by GameSeven »

Teal wrote:Leave the f***in guy alone.
I'm as fed up with hearing about this story *everywhere* as the next guy but, in today's society, it has been proven time and time again. When you accept the accolades and the endorsement dollars and the adoration of the public, your celebrity is bound to an unwritten contract and the public *will* tear you down if it feels betrayed. It's the deal with the devil that he willingly accepted and challenged.

Hell, Tiger doesn't have half of his tail if not for wealth, fame and its many trappings. He should have known the price he might have to pay but hubris has felled celebrity after celebrity.

Not saying all of this is right, but I'm not going to shed a tear for TW.
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Post by JackB1 »

GameSeven wrote:
JackB1 wrote:It's the old dog vs. people argument.
No, it's not. Evaluating adulterous behavior with killing is the paramount argument in your post. To seek out a moral equivalency you would need to compare reasonably similar crimes.

For example, is a person who cheats on a spouse worse than someone who cheats on their pet?

Is a person who kills a human worse than someone who kills an animal?

Is a dog who is not monogamous worse than a human who is not?

Is a dog that kills a human worse than one that kills another dog?
I wasn't making that argument myself...my co-worker was. He actually laughed at me as "ridiculous" because I said that "killing dogs is worse than cheating on your wife".

His main beef seemed to be with Nike though.....because they dropped Vick and they stand behind Tiger. (Sidenote: He is a Vick supporter and not a dog lover). I still agree with most here that this is not a close comparison at all. They were also comparing Tiger to Chris Brown on the sportstalk radio.
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Post by JackB1 »

ScoopBrady wrote:Just out of curiousity Teal, did you read any of these stories about Tiger? Seems to me the best way to make your point about just leaving Tiger alone would be to avoid reading or listening to the reports about it. The media is going to report what the public wants to hear and by reading or listening to these reports it gives them the impression that people want to hear about it. I'm just sayin'. :wink:
it's quite obvious that everyone is interested in this story.....and I also agree with an earlier poster who said that Tiger can't use the media to his benefit only and expect them to go away when things go South.
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Post by JackB1 »

JRod wrote:Vick was convicted of a crime and dropped from his sponsorship deals. Tiger woods was cited for a traffic violation. Take out the adultery and I don't think his Nike contract says he can't get a ticket. Maybe there's a professional conduct phrase but is Nike really going to drop Tiger for this. They would be stupid to do so. Because if Tiger starts winning majors, no one will remember this. And when or if he breaks Jack's record, the media who was against him now, will praise him as the greatest athlete of our time. And all this will be looked back as a "slip up by Tiger" but nothing more than a blip on his career. Winning and time gives people very selective memory.

The argument of Vick versus Tiger is pretty stupid.

That reasoning shouldn't be allowed in the same thread as Brando's excellent post.
This story is now about adultery and not a traffic citation, so you can't just "take that out" now, as you suggest. And I disagree.....this story isn't going to be so easily forgotten and blown away by Tiger just winning a few majors. I think a lot depends on what else develops here. Every day there seems to be a new "disgression" that emerges :)

To quote George from Seinfeld....."This story is like an onion.....the more layers you peel away, the more it stinks!" :)
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Post by Danimal »

All I know is if his wife wants to even up the score, I volunteer.

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Post by greggsand »

Who's worse: Tiger or OJ? 8O
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Post by pk500 »

JackB1 wrote:(copied from other locked thread)....

This could be an interesting debate. I know at first it seems that what Vick did was much worse, but is Tiger that far behind? Is cheating on your wife for years and years....deceiving her and lying to her face day after day better or worse than running a dogfighting operation and killing and torturing dogs?

I am curious what you guys think about this. Also, please don't b*tch about not putting this in the Tiger thread! I thought it would get burried or ignored by those who are already tired of the Tiger talk.

I had this discussion with a co-worker who thinks its very unfair that Nike is sticking by Tiger after what he did as opposed to dropping Vick's endorsements when that happened. Is Nike contradictory in not dropping Woods also?
Another human vs. animal thread. I thought the DSP chapter of the SPCA was shut down?

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Last edited by pk500 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pk500 »

Teal wrote:Paul, if you think his personal life is your concern, then carry on. I don't think his personal life is any of our collective damned business. And I don't know where the Ward Cleaver/ Mayberry bullshit comes from, but it's just that.

The main difference between what was and what is, is that we've got the mindset that everyone else's business is OUR business, because bottom feeders like TMZ and ET say it is.

He f***ed up, he admitted it. Moreso than I believe he should have to. He and his wife have some things to work through. Where WE fit into all that is an unsolvable mystery.

Leave the f***in guy alone.
OK. When his third child is born, can the guy not release his family pictures to the media as he did when his second child was born? Can Nike and Tiger's other sponsors stop bombarding my TV with Tiger-related ads? Can Tiger take down his officially sanctioned Web site that includes an entire About Tiger section?

It's funny how we need to leave Tiger alone when his world explodes through hubris yet Tiger can be thrust on all of us by himself, his handlers and his sponsors ad nauseum when times are good.

You simply can't have it both ways when you're a public figure with an image built on equal parts ferocity on the golf course and vanilla moral sanctity off it. Especially in this era of instant media.

We live in a world of total immersion. Public figures are marketed as brands and products, none maybe moreso in sport than Tiger Woods. There are inherent risks in that for the brand/person when their world is turned upside-down.

If you believe otherwise, you're living in Mayberry, talking over the fence with your good neighbor Ward Cleaver.

People like you can choose to ignore this or "f*ckin' leave him alone." Completely justified. But those who are interested or even titillated by Woods' indiscretions also are justified because this guy isn't your neighbor having problems with his wife. He's a $1 billion worldwide brand.

Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by pk500 »

greggsand wrote:Who's worse: Tiger or OJ? 8O
If the 7-iron club face imprint and cuts on Tiger's face do not fit, then you must acquit!

Take care,
PK
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Post by Danimal »

dbdynsty25 wrote:Last time I checked...adultery isn't illegal. Killing dogs is. There you have it.
Wait.. killing dogs is illegal. f*** I'm in trouble.

What about cats?
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Post by EZSnappin »

Can we also talk about racing horses for the trifecta?

And, again, Ronnie. James. Dio. Come on people! Priorities. \m/
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Post by Danimal »

If you want to read something funny and un-Tiger related check this out.

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.html

I swear I laughed for 15 minutes.
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Post by greggsand »

Tiger Slow-Jam Remix. Something 'extra stupid' about this one. eh, made me laugh. Don't judge.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OE ... ></object>
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Post by JRod »

JackB1 wrote:
JRod wrote:Vick was convicted of a crime and dropped from his sponsorship deals. Tiger woods was cited for a traffic violation. Take out the adultery and I don't think his Nike contract says he can't get a ticket. Maybe there's a professional conduct phrase but is Nike really going to drop Tiger for this. They would be stupid to do so. Because if Tiger starts winning majors, no one will remember this. And when or if he breaks Jack's record, the media who was against him now, will praise him as the greatest athlete of our time. And all this will be looked back as a "slip up by Tiger" but nothing more than a blip on his career. Winning and time gives people very selective memory.

The argument of Vick versus Tiger is pretty stupid.

That reasoning shouldn't be allowed in the same thread as Brando's excellent post.
This story is now about adultery and not a traffic citation, so you can't just "take that out" now, as you suggest. And I disagree.....this story isn't going to be so easily forgotten and blown away by Tiger just winning a few majors. I think a lot depends on what else develops here. Every day there seems to be a new "disgression" that emerges :)

To quote George from Seinfeld....."This story is like an onion.....the more layers you peel away, the more it stinks!" :)
The crime is about a traffic citation. You can't compare adultery to animal cruelty. It is a stupid comparison!

Okay let's go over some things you brought up.

#1 Nike endorsements. I'm pretty sure that if Tiger murdered someone or did something to hurt Nike's image than they would drop him. This doesn't hurt Nike's image, if anything at the first Tournament back every single camera will be on Tiger WEARING Nike gear. If you want the business world to less about the bottom line, adopt communism or socialism. I doubt there's a clause in his contract saying that have an affair is a cause for termination.

#2 Vick and Tiger. And the crime Tiger committed? A traffic citation. There are two things one is the criminal charges and the second is the media story. As for the charges Vick was tried an convicted of dog fighting. Tiger was cited for a traffic violation. Which probably doesn't violate anything in his endorsement contracts.

#2. The media storm. So we learn the real Tiger. We learn that arguably the most popular athlete in the world cheated on his wife. No one is arguing that this is acceptable behavior, but what's the real issue here. That the world wanted to see Tiger fall so that he could be infallable? Or that here's someone that had the perfect image shattered due to one night of domestic fighting and all the stories of his GFs came out.

Tiger wasn't advocating for family values. He hits a little white ball around the golf course better than anyone else on the planet that's all he does. His ability then gives him the oppurtunity to do other things secondary to golf like endorsements, charity, his golf businesses.

And his career is shattered or at least harmed so badly that winning won't cure this. That's delusion! In the world of 24/7 media coverage and entertainment news being reported as real news, this will pass soon enough when actress X comes out with a sex type, or celebrity X dates celebrity Y or name the crap we have to endure.

If Tiger comes back solemn and repentant, that will make things go faster because the media loves that stuff. Then after he wins a few tournaments the focus will be back on golf and if he break Jack's record, this will be a side note to his career.
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Post by EZSnappin »

Danimal wrote:If you want to read something funny and un-Tiger related check this out.

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.html

I swear I laughed for 15 minutes.
Thank you! That was great. Will share with my Graphic Designer wife who is constantly pestered by similar "offers."
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Post by pk500 »

greggsand wrote:Tiger Slow-Jam Remix. Something 'extra stupid' about this one. eh, made me laugh. Don't judge.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OE ... ></object>
Screw you, Gregg. I'm already humming the chorus ad nauseum, in falsetto! :)

"Can you take your name ... off your phone ... "

Take care,
PK
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Post by greggsand »

pk500 wrote:
greggsand wrote:Tiger Slow-Jam Remix. Something 'extra stupid' about this one. eh, made me laugh. Don't judge.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OE ... ></object>
Screw you, Gregg. I'm already humming the chorus ad nauseum, in falsetto! :)

"Can you take your name ... off your phone ... "

Take care,
PK
LOL, me too. Been driving me crazy all afternoon. Had to spread the sickness...
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Post by 10spro »

pk500 wrote:
greggsand wrote:Who's worse: Tiger or OJ? 8O
If the 7-iron club face imprint and cuts on Tiger's face do not fit, then you must acquit!

Take care,
PK

I don't think it was a 7 iron.

http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=7a ... =inline&zw
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