OT - Financial mess 101 ($700 billion bailout)

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JRod
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Post by JRod »

Except in the process you don't tack on earmarks here. As far as I can remember, appropriations can be done in committee, on the floor or in conference report. Most appropriations would be done in the conference committee reports.

Earmarks are usually done during conference committee and in appropriation bills. Like the Defense Approp, or Housing, Labor etc. Most earmarks are found in the Appropriation bills appropriate funds for the Federal Government.

I could be dead wrong but you will not find appropriations in the bill write-up. And I'm less sure but I still think earmarks wouldn't be seen until the House and Senate version of this bill are passed and a conference committee is set-up to work out the differences, should there be any.
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Post by wco81 »

Saw that one of the provisions of the Senate bailout bill, which they will vote on tomorrow night, is to increase the FDIC limit from $100k to $250k.

Not a boon for that many individuals but it's suppose to help small businesses.
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Post by TheHiddenTrack »

"Princeton economists review recent events on Wall Street and assess the implications for the economy and public policy.

Panelists: Hyun Shin, Professor of Economics and associate chair of the Department of Economics; Markus Brunnermeier, Professor of Economics;
Harrison Hong, Professor in Finance;
Paul Krugman, professor of economics and international affairs; Alan Blinder, Professor of Economics and Public Affairs and co‐director of the Center for Economic Policy Studies."

If you have an hour to kill:
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Post by FatPitcher »

Apparently the SEC eased the mark-to-market rule this afternoon: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/liveco ... id=topnews
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Post by JackB1 »

wco81 wrote:Saw that one of the provisions of the Senate bailout bill, which they will vote on tomorrow night, is to increase the FDIC limit from $100k to $250k.

Not a boon for that many individuals but it's suppose to help small businesses.
There is NOTHING in this bailout that will help everyday, middle class individuals. Nothing that will lower gas prices, help us with healthcare or
help us pay our mortgages. The only people this bailout will only help is the rich, corporate banks and the shareholder of elite corporate America that created this mess. They are creating this panic situation to rush this bill through and we will be paying for it for years afterwards. Why should we believe an administration that has lied to us for 8 years now? Paulson can't even validate how he came up with the $700 Billion amount he asked for.

Why there isn't more public outrage over this proposal is beyond me? If you really want to know who will benefit from this bailout, read this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/busin ... ref=slogin
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Post by wco81 »

It may not be so much about helping this or that class so much as not harming any class.
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Post by JackB1 »

wco81 wrote:It may not be so much about helping this or that class so much as not harming any class.
It's about keeping the status quo of corporate America controlling Washington, which last time I looked didn't benefit the middle class.

Sorry to sound so negative, but I just don't trust the govt anytime they insist on rushing something through. We've been lied to before, why should we believe them now? They are using this tactic of creating fear and confusion again and everyone is just going along with it without questioning. Why isn't the media questioning things more? Didn't they learn their lesson with the Iraq War leadup?
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Post by wco81 »

Well we could let all these institutions fail. Then we won't have the corporations controlling America. But you could look at the Princeton panel discussion linked above and see how much Wall Street owned American assets.

You can punish these firms, let them fail (that is the argument of the House Republicans, with their market fundamentalism). But they will take down a lot with them.

They're too big to fail and now with bank failures and forced buyouts under distress, they're going to be even bigger.

As for corporate control, they're always going to have influence. This is the result of developments which took several decades.

They will always have better access to power. Clinton took money from big businesses and so has Obama. Just like the Republicans.

Maybe not as much but still substantial sums.

Yet, if you can't see there was a qualitative difference between how corporatist the Bush admin. has been compared to Clinton, then you might as well be a Naderite and vote for an independent and hand the election to the Republicans again.
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Post by RobVarak »

Apropos of nobody in particular...

Please keep in mind that as long as the short selling ban is in effect, the equity markets are highly suspect as real indicators of...well anything.
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Post by JackB1 »

RobVarak wrote:Apropos of nobody in particular...

Please keep in mind that as long as the short selling ban is in effect, the equity markets are highly suspect as real indicators of...well anything.
Is the short selling ban not going to be permanent?
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Post by Teal »

Dave Ramsey's take on all this:
Dave Ramsey wrote:Years of bad decisions and stupid mistakes have created an economic nightmare in this country, but $700 billion in new

debt is not the answer. As a tax-paying American citizen, I will not support any congressperson who votes to implement

such a policy. Instead, I submit the following three steps:

Common Sense Plan.

I. INSURANCE

A. Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance. Government-insured and backed loans would

have an instant market all over the world, creating immediate and needed liquidity.

B. In order for a company to accept the government-backed insurance, they must do two things:

1. Rewrite any mortgage that is more than three months delinquent to a 6% fixed-rate mortgage.

a. Roll all back payments with no late fees or legal costs into the balance. This brings homeowners current and allows

them a chance to keep their homes.

b. Cancel all prepayment penalties to encourage refinancing or the sale of the property to pay off the bad loan.

In the event of foreclosure or short sale, the borrower will not be held liable for any deficit balance. FHA does

this now, and that encourages mortgage companies to go the extra mile while working with the borrower—again limiting

foreclosures and ruined lives.

2. Cancel ALL golden parachutes of EXISTING and FUTURE CEOs and executive team members as long as the company holds these

government-insured bonds/mortgages. This keeps underperforming executives from being paid when they don’t do their jobs.

C. This backstop will cost less than $50 billion—a small fraction of the current proposal.



II. MARK TO MARKET

A. Remove mark to market accounting rules for two years on only subprime Tier III bonds/mortgages. This keeps companies from

being forced to artificially mark down bonds/mortgages below the value of the underlying mortgages and real estate.

B. This move creates patience in the market and has an immediate stabilizing effect on failing and ailing banks—and it costs

the taxpayer nothing.



III. CAPITAL GAINS TAX

A. Remove the capital gains tax completely. Investors will flood the real estate and stock market in search of tax-free profits,

creating tremendous—and immediate—liquidity in the markets. Again, this costs the taxpayer nothing.

B. This move will be seen as a lightning rod politically because many will say it is helping the rich. The truth is the rich will

benefit, but it will be their money that stimulates the economy. This will enable all Americans to have more stable jobs and

retirement investments that go up instead of down. This is not a time for envy, and it’s not a time for politics. It’s time for

all of us, as Americans, to stand up, speak out, and fix this mess.
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Post by wco81 »

You don't want to give $700 billion to rich Wall Street bankers but you want to eliminate capital gains taxes for them.

Okay.

Why not eliminate all taxes for people making over a couple of million?
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Post by Teal »

I'm a BIG proponent of the Fair Tax Plan. So yeah...eliminate all but sales tax, increase that to 23%, and watch the chia pet grow... :D
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Post by XXXIV »

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Teal
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Post by Teal »

I just got the sudden urge to urinate... :)
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XXXIV
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Post by XXXIV »

Teal wrote:
I just got the sudden urge to urinate... :)
:lol

From the homophone or the article? :)
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Post by Teal »

XXXIV wrote:
Teal wrote:
I just got the sudden urge to urinate... :)
:lol

From the homophone or the article? :)
Hey! I resent that-I have several gay friends... :wink:
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Post by Jackdog »

Teal wrote:
I just got the sudden urge to urinate... :)
How about puking over this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0
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Teal
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Post by Teal »

JackDog wrote:
Teal wrote:
I just got the sudden urge to urinate... :)
How about puking over this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0
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Teal
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Post by Teal »

Well, the Senate passed it...again...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_ ... l_meltdown
Seems all they did was add a bunch of sugar to the turd to make it taste better...
And I couldn't help but think of this:
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Post by bdunn13 »

Not that they care, but I just informed both of my Senators that they lost my vote. I look forward to the day both of them leave office.
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Teal
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Post by Teal »

bdunn13 wrote:Not that they care, but I just informed both of my Senators that they lost my vote. I look forward to the day both of them leave office.
I'll have to look and make sure, but my two senators declared that they would vote against this bill. If they did, then good for them. They'll be back in the senate after the next round of elections...if I have anything to do with it.
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Teal
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Post by Teal »

Here is a list of Senators who voted no. As advertised, Sessions and Shelby voted no, and I will continue to vote 'yes' for them, as a result.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/ ... ed_No.html
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Post by RobVarak »

Teal wrote:Here is a list of Senators who voted no. As advertised, Sessions and Shelby voted no, and I will continue to vote 'yes' for them, as a result.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/ ... ed_No.html
Who knew there would be such demand for the role of the new Herbert Hoover? :)
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