Backbreaker Preview - Natural Motion based football title

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon May 24, 2010 2:07 pm

I'm anxious to hear thoughts on the final product (bkrich is getting it and I trust his opinions) and would love to add it to my gaming library.

I'm getting NCAA 11 and seriously doubt I'll get Madden, so I would love to play BB as well.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:31 pm

I'm getting it; but clearly my opinions can't be trusted

- must be because I'm an Apple and Backbreaker fanboy.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:54 pm

I'm definitely getting it when it hits $20.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon May 24, 2010 10:57 pm

Sport73 wrote:I'm getting it; but clearly my opinions can't be trusted - must be because I'm an Apple and Backbreaker fanboy.

I like Apple..

I'm looking forward to your impressions as well.. it just seemed like over at OS, bk has the same issue (camera) as I do.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed May 26, 2010 1:34 pm

Thought this was cool:
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zCMyGeBOyuU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed>

Thinks he's not down, so he gets up and tries for more!

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed May 26, 2010 1:39 pm

Wow that was very cool

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Wed May 26, 2010 1:41 pm

I played through all the training (available) and 1 game as the Indy Spartan.

Perhaps I picked the best QB/passing team, I went 5-5 for 98 yards with 1 TD in 4 minutes of play. It is not all smooth though, since you pretty much have to commit to a receiver if you focus, I got sacked twice for big loss.

Running game is awesome.

No more magical suction cup players.

AI did turn the ball over twice, which is a lot in the short amount of time. I played on the medium difficulty, I think.

Playing defense is not much fun, unless you try to blitz at every down (not recommended). You don't see much action (especially if you cover your assignment well), and the camera made it hard to follow sometimes.

I have a feeling Madden players will not try to get accustomed to the camera (especially QB play) and this will drop to $20 in a month. I personally welcome the change and need to figure out how to make D fun.

They should give you a more Madden-esque camera to sell the game.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed May 26, 2010 4:44 pm

Thought I was going to finally get to play the demo yesterday and was disappointed it was not included in the PSN update (bastards!). Anyways, I saw this post today over on the BB boards:

"Dear Backbreaker fans,

To avoid having to post this in multiple threads I'm starting a new thread.

Please understand that we know how much PS3 owners really want to try the game. We want you to try it a million times more. The demo is with Sony and I'm afraid that it is down to them when it gets released. It is exactly the same demo as the Xbox 360 one and there has been no arrangement made with us.

I promise that as soon as we have any more information I will share it with you in this thread. Until them, I'm locking it down for clarity.

Everyone at NaturalMotion Games thanks you for your understanding.

Regards
Rob"

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:35 am

A demo update for PS3 folks:

"Just to further clarify this situation...

NaturalMotion submitted the demo to Sony and Microsoft at exactly the same time. Both demos have been approved by the platform holders and Microsoft have since released the demo, as you know.

Neither NaturalMotion or 505 Games have any say or control over the release date of the demo on PS3. This is entirely down to Sony.

Again, as soon as we receive any word on when this might happen, we will let you know in this thread.

Thanks for supporting Backbreaker."

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:50 am

Another vote why not to be console monogamous.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 10:14 am

I hadn't really read anything about the Road to BackBreaker mode in the game -- it sounds from this article like it might make the single player experience a little more interesting:

"Introducing Soccer Relegation to American Football — in a Video Game"

"Maybe the only way to make the Oakland Raiders' season interesting past the sixth week would be to force them - and every other wretched team - to play for the right to stay in the National Football League.

That will never happen in real life. But Backbreaker, coming Tuesday from NaturalMotion and 505 Games, doesn't have an NFL license - and can't have one in fact. That means the English studio may do as it pleases with the fictitious American football league it's created for the game, even imposing upon it European football's system of relegation and promotion.

"We follow (American) football but we obviously have this European tendency, and one thing we get over here is the end of season drama of promotion and relegation," Rob Donald, NaturalMotion's associate producer on Backbreaker, told Kotaku. "There's nothing like it at the top level of sport."

Not only will English football see its bottom three sides fighting for their lives, even at the end of a hopeless season, the top squads in a lower classification will battle as if they're still eligible for a premiership or Champions' League berth. That's because promotion to the top classification carries with it millions of pounds in television revenue, plus added ticket sales and licensing revenue. "We call it the richest game in football," Donald says.

NaturalMotion wanted to deliver that excitement to Backbreaker in its "Road to Backbreaker" mode, in which a player's created team progresses through three ranks - a lower 8-team league, a mid-range 16-team class, and the upper 32-team division. The idea is that even in a bad season there's still something to play for - hard.

"When we were throwing around the idea, it was genuinely something that caused a bit of concern," Donald said. "Would people understand this? It's alien to the largest market of people, maybe they're not going to understand it. But the more we explain this, people are going, 'Oh wow, I really like the sound of that.' It's something I think people can get into. It makes them love the teams a little bit more. And it this wouldn't make sense if you're following a license. You can't just make up a relegation competition for the NFL, it wouldn't make any sense.

"But if people have these fictional teams, and they feel a genuine bond with them, then we feel it'll be very important to them to keep them up in the league and to get promoted," Donald said, "and it will be very heartbreaking when they get relegated and have to start all over again."

Backbreaker ships with 60 teams - nearly double the NFL's stable of 32 - so the three-tiered structure explains why there are so many. Some will be crap, others stronger, Donald says. Players can also create their own franchises through the game's deep customization engine.

But it's apparent that no matter who you choose to play, there's an opportunity for something to be at stake with any team you choose - unlike going into a season with the Cleveland Browns or the Buffalo Bills in Madden."

http://kotaku.com/5548274/introducing-s ... video-game

AJColossal · Post by **AJColossal** » Thu May 27, 2010 10:42 am

I'm one of the unlucky demo-less PS3 guys, but I've been interested in what I've been reading. It sounds like the game really does so much right, and is pushing football games in an innovative direction -- something that's been missing for a while.

The one facet of this game that seems the most troublesome is the incompetent CPU offense. If they can fix that for the final release, this could be something.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu May 27, 2010 11:58 am

I really like the Road to Backbreaker and I hope the full version does have compentent AI - I don't think you can really tell from the demo.

Will be reading impressions!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu May 27, 2010 12:28 pm

I've played enough to realize the game is just not for me, when it drops in price, which I assume will be right before NCAA comes out, I might give it another go.

Just not having fun with the turn overs and really not digging the camera (although I heard it was pulled back a little in the final version) see a lot of potential here and hope they make another one and give us camera options.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 12:33 pm

AJColossal wrote: The one facet of this game that seems the most troublesome is the incompetent CPU offense. If they can fix that for the final release, this could be something.

Hopefully the incompetent AI in the demo is explained by some of the lower-tiered teams being included, and that the top 32 teams will be a challenge in the final game. (I'm also hoping online play will be as good as I'm hearing.) And I agree, if done right this game could really be something.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu May 27, 2010 12:36 pm

GTHobbes wrote: Hopefully the incompetent AI in the demo is explained by some of the lower-tiered teams being included, and that the top 32 teams will be a challenge in the final game. (I'm also hoping online play will be as good as I'm hearing.) And I agree, if done right this game could really be something.

My understanding is 2 of the teams in the demo are top tier teams and it doesn't seem to help. Also where are you hearing online play is good? Since reviews are embargoed to release day and the demo has no online play who exactly is saying that?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 12:42 pm

Danimal wrote:
GTHobbes wrote: Hopefully the incompetent AI in the demo is explained by some of the lower-tiered teams being included, and that the top 32 teams will be a challenge in the final game. (I'm also hoping online play will be as good as I'm hearing.) And I agree, if done right this game could really be something.
My understanding is 2 of the teams in the demo are top tier teams and it doesn't seem to help. Also where are you hearing online play is good? Since reviews are embargoed to release day and the demo has no online play who exactly is saying that?

Over on the other board where you moderate, someone with 3,800+ posts said this morning:

"From what I'm hearing, playing head to head online (with trustworthy people) should be really fun."

Someone with a different user name over on the BB boards said something very similar. Again, I haven't even played the demo yet -- but hopefully these guys aren't talking out their ass. We'll see soon enough.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:02 pm

GTHobbes wrote:Over on the other board where you moderate, someone with 3,800+ posts said this morning:

"From what I'm hearing, playing head to head online (with trustworthy people) should be really fun."

Someone with a different user name over on the BB boards said something very similar. Again, I haven't even played the demo yet -- but hopefully these guys aren't talking out their ass. We'll see soon enough.

Yeah that really sucks for PS owners, well it comes out next week so I am sure we'll get plenty of opinions.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:44 pm

For looking at the videos, I don't know if I could ever play NCAA or Madden again. Quite frankly, after watching vids (PS3-only, so no demo) this looks like the leap NFL 2k took. Madden looks like it has sprites and everything is mo-capped.

But like NFL 2k, BB might be just as buggy and incomplete.

I'm going to get it as a day 1 purchase because one I think it is the first next-gen sports game that exists since the launch of the 360. And because Madden needs competition so supporting another game is necessary.

I don't know how close the demo is to the final version but I think we are seeing close to a final product, which means, that the int situation probably isn't resolved. Heck, there are reports that the game is sitting in boxes at some stores.

This game has everything I want, regulation and promotion, team logo creator and simple enough player ratings to make creating players easier (it may be too simple). I imagine the Road to BB to play similar to WE Master League because this dev team is from the UK.

The other question mark is how much support the game will get after release. I feel that we'll see continue development because you just get the feeling that the team needs to sell BB to achieve two things. One gain a market share from Madden. But more importantly it seems they are creating a flagship title to sell their Euphoria engine and negative press on BB could indirectly hurt sales of their engine.

Just how much did this little demo expose Madden and NCAA engine. This is like in the NFL, when a 14-2 team's defense gets exposed late in the season or in the playoffs. If BB can build upon this game and the initial client base, in 2-4 years you could see a title that steals a huge portion of the market from EA. I think this dev team, since they have nothing to lose, could afford to make a game for the next few years. Unlike All-Pro which thought it would create another NFL 2k5 phenomenon only to fail.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:55 pm

JRod wrote:For looking at the videos, I don't know if I could ever play NCAA or Madden again. Quite frankly, after watching vids (PS3-only, so no demo) this looks like the leap NFL 2k took. Madden looks like it has sprites and everything is mo-capped.

Just how much did this little demo expose Madden and NCAA engine. This is like in the NFL, when a 14-2 team's defense gets exposed late in the season or in the playoffs. If BB can build upon this game and the initial client base, in 2-4 years you could see a title that steals a huge portion of the market from EA. I think this dev team, since they have nothing to lose, could afford to make a game for the next few years. Unlike All-Pro which thought it would create another NFL 2k5 phenomenon only to fail.

That's what i've been trying to say as well. I'm no EA hater but the Madden and NCAA series has been a trickle fest in the improvement dept for the last 10 years. I must admit the game last year took a huge leap in the fun dept but when you play BB and watch the tackle physics and tackle animations you walk away asking why the hell couldn't EA do this?

Answer: Because it would have taken a total rewrite to the games code and they would essentially have to start over from scratch which they probably had no desire to do unless pressed. Now every time someone plays Madden alongside BB the difference will be as glaring as playing a first generation PlayStation game vs a Nintendo 64 game.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:02 pm

JRod wrote:For looking at the videos, I don't know if I could ever play NCAA or Madden again. Quite frankly, after watching vids (PS3-only, so no demo) this looks like the leap NFL 2k took. Madden looks like it has sprites and everything is mo-capped.

I've had the exact same thoughts. I always b*tch about EA/Tiburon but I ended up buying the last couple years of Madden anyways. I'm pretty sure that habit is going to end this year -- just no way for me to go back. It really does remind me of the days when EA said fully polygonal players couldn't be done -- and then 2k went and did it. It will be interesting to see comments from Madden fans in August if they've given Backbreaker a fair try.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:08 pm

GTHobbes wrote:
JRod wrote:For looking at the videos, I don't know if I could ever play NCAA or Madden again. Quite frankly, after watching vids (PS3-only, so no demo) this looks like the leap NFL 2k took. Madden looks like it has sprites and everything is mo-capped.
I've had the exact same thoughts. I always b*tch about EA/Tiburon but I ended up buying the last couple years of Madden anyways. I'm pretty sure that habit is going to end this year -- just no way for me to go back. It really does remind me of the days when EA said fully polygonal players couldn't be done -- and then 2k went and did it. It will be interesting to see comments from Madden fans in August if they've given Backbreaker a fair try.

You mean Sony's NFL Gameday 98 on the PlayStation, right?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:13 pm

Rodster wrote:
GTHobbes wrote:
JRod wrote:For looking at the videos, I don't know if I could ever play NCAA or Madden again. Quite frankly, after watching vids (PS3-only, so no demo) this looks like the leap NFL 2k took. Madden looks like it has sprites and everything is mo-capped.
I've had the exact same thoughts. I always b*tch about EA/Tiburon but I ended up buying the last couple years of Madden anyways. I'm pretty sure that habit is going to end this year -- just no way for me to go back. It really does remind me of the days when EA said fully polygonal players couldn't be done -- and then 2k went and did it. It will be interesting to see comments from Madden fans in August if they've given Backbreaker a fair try.
You mean Sony's NFL Gameday 98 on the PlayStation, right?

Whoops...you're right, Rod. I was thinking about EA saying that online play wasn't possible, and then 2k did it with the old dial-up modems. Same thing as the polygon/sprite players with EA and Gameday, though.

And just for posterity, I thought it would be worth digging up these Ian Cummings' quotes from last July:

"Euphoria is cool but has one fatal flaw and that is that players cannot really struggle once collisions occur. Every "tackle" is going to be a missile-style collision, unless they used canned motion capture style or tackles."

"My question to pose (seriously) - would you be willing to give up the fact that the ballcarrier can no longer struggle for extra yards to have physics-driven tackles?"

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/m ... ystem.html

"Not a single real video has been released and only a select few of embargoed reviewers have put their hands on Backbreaker - IMO that's for a reason. Don't get me wrong, Euphoria is cool (I've seen it in action)) - but if you think that our animations get old I imagine the same exact feeling will happen to you when you are looking at football players crumpled up like ragdolls / dead bodies. Kudos for them to trying something new - I hope it works out."

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/m ... tem-2.html

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:31 pm

Well he is right in a sense, you can't struggle after the collision. Once it goes into effect you're done. Well not done but to quote lost "what happens..happens" and you're tied into what the physics engine thinks should happen.

All the videos you see posted are of the cool plays, no one is showing you videos of all the wonky plays. I've see guys after bump into each other and fall to the ground. I've seen guys go down because the engine thinks that foot should trip me up. Granted the ratio is like 70-80
% cool plays to head scratchers.

It's cool tech but some people are blowing it way out of proportion. Anyone who is going to give an honest opinion of this game is going to tell you it's innovative, it's cool but it still feels like early technology.

I liken it to the first High Heat game on the PC, you knew the basis was there for something very special but it needed more time in the oven. That is how I feel about BB, it's really cool and can be fun but if I was told this could be my only football game this year I would say no.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Thu May 27, 2010 2:40 pm

Danimal wrote: It's cool tech but some people are blowing it way out of proportion. Anyone who is going to give an honest opinion of this game is going to tell you it's innovative, it's cool but it still feels like early technology.

You're probably right, Dan. But then again, I can't remember the last time I heard "it's cool" or "it's innovative" used when describing the other game's tech. Maybe this will be the year and I'll end up eating my words (I've definitely been wrong before).