Soccer thread 08/09 (will have spoilers!)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:46 pm

fletcher21 wrote:English fans as a whole despise American soccer. That's just a fact. Trying to change something that they grew up believing isn't gonna do much. In the words of my buddy in London "you lot could win the bloody world cup for all I care but you're never going to get the respect of anyone in Europe until you win time and again like the great teams from Europe have. Brazil will punish you furiously this upcoming match."

Funny that a Brit would use repeated World Cup victories as a barometer of international status. England has a whopping one World Cup victory -- just one more than the U.S.

I take it your buddy doesn't consider the English national team to be one of the great teams from Europe.

Take care,
PK

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:54 pm

Hopefully Brazil play the same way in the final as they did today! C'mon USA!

(and this is from a Canadian!)

As an aside, I don't think this is the equivalent of a 'pre-season friendly' - look at the freakin' squads and how Dani Alves celebrated that goal - these players are taking it pretty seriously. Sure it's not the World Cup, but it's not a throwaway tournament either.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:56 pm

pk500 wrote:Funny that a Brit would use repeated World Cup victories as a barometer of international status. England has a whopping one World Cup victory -- just one more than the U.S.

I take it your buddy doesn't consider the English national team to be one of the great teams from Europe.

I just deleted a half-written post saying broadly the same thing. One World Cup, 43 years ago, won at home. One of the fundamental things everyone needs to understand about English football fans, if you've not already done so, is that we talk an awful lot of sh*t.

As an English football fan (well...a Hartlepool United fan, which is just about the same thing), I actually thought - and I've expressed this elsewhere - that the USA's performance on Tuesday night was pretty impressive stuff. You did not fluke a 2-0 win against Spain. You were not broken down in the way that the admittedly under-strength cough England cough were a few months ago, though I believe the USA starting 11 last night also lacked names. Your side was resolute, and while a keeper whose wrists weren't made of chocolate and a right-back playing the same football match as everyone else might have stopped them, took the chances that presented themselves. I'm not exactly certain what else they could have done.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:22 pm

fletcher21 wrote:
toonarmy wrote:
fletcher21 wrote: According to several of my buddies in the UK it was exactly that, a fluke.
According to my friends from the UK ANYTHING the US does in soccer is a fluke. Given the performance of the English team in recent memory all I can do is laugh at anyone from England dogging the US national team. And, as for today's game being a fluke, anyone who understands the sport and watched today's game is a complete fool for saying it was a fluke win. A surprising result? Yes. A fluke? Give me a break!
A fluke is the same thing as a surprise. The US were playing their best while Spain went into zombie mode at the worst time. An average American team shutting out a team with a 451 minute shutout streak is more than just a surprise I'm sorry. And about the English fans, at least they produce some quality soccer players. Who does the US team have as their Beckham/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho/Messi go to player? No one outside of this country can name more than 2-3 players max. I am sorry but if you are comparing the English team as being on the same level as the Americans, you've lost some credibility here. I'm sure you saw this win coming, much like you predicted the Penguins as a team on the rise

A fluke is the same thing as a surprise? i hope you are just trying to get a rise out of me and do not actually believe that is true. And where did I even come close to saying the American team is on the same level as England? You are the one who has no credibility. As usual, you are full of BS and do not understand the topic at hand.

Post by **Jared** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:00 pm

davet010 wrote:Call it snobbery if you will, but I think the worst thing that happened to the WC was its expansion to 32 teams, allowing more entrants from the much weaker confederations. And don't try to tell me that it increases the overall competence of those areas which have an increased representation, because I just don't see that being the case.

You think Africa should only have 3 spots? Ghana, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Egypt, Nigeria, Morocco, etc. are all quality teams.

Or that South America should only have three spots? Look at qualifying this year, Brasil, Paraguay, Argentina, Chile are all great, and 5-8 in S. America (Uruguay, Colombia, Ecuador, and now even Venezuela) are solid squads.

Or that CONCACAF should only get 1.5 spot? Mexico and the United States are both quality sides, ranked in the top 32 in nearly all world rankings, and Costa Rica has played well in the WC.

(For reference, Europe went from 12 to 14 spots.)

Those were the distributions for the 1994 WC (when there were 24 teams). Currently, I think that Asia should give one spot to Europe and Oceania should be dissolved into Asia for qualifying. But otherwise 32 teams still keeps some good teams in the tournament, outside of the bottom CONCACAF and Asian squads.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:20 pm

Jared makes solid points regarding the number of teams. Given the rise in the talent level of world soccer it only makes sense to have 32 teams. So many more countries now, compared to the past, devote serious resources to developing soccer talent. The World Cup is the world's largest sporting spectacle, so it's great to have increased participation. The way the finals are set up allow for the cream to still rise to the top by the end of the tournament, yet still have some early-round upsets due to increasing parity in world soccer.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:44 pm

Well the last time it was at 24, England couldn't get in.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:02 pm

I am hood with 32 teams in a WC as well. In the 80's Cameroon was the surprise Cinderella team in the world and it's amazing how the African teams have improved since. Same goes for Japan and S. Korea resurgence in the early 2K's and I predict a team in SA will take the next step and surprise many next year, perhaps Ecuador. Just ask how difficult of a time Argentina is having to qualify for next year.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:54 pm

Macca00 wrote:Hopefully Brazil play the same way in the final as they did today! C'mon USA!

(and this is from a Canadian!)

As an aside, I don't think this is the equivalent of a 'pre-season friendly' - look at the freakin' squads and how Dani Alves celebrated that goal - these players are taking it pretty seriously. Sure it's not the World Cup, but it's not a throwaway tournament either.

It was a good win for the U.S. for sure - I don't believe in flukes in football. A team that defends well and takes it's chances is full value for the victory.

BTW in my over 35 league I've just spent the last two matches in goal - Last played keeper in a couple of competitive matches as a kid 30 years ago. 1st match was a 0-0 draw against the 3rd division Portugese team in London - we had 1 sub and the other team was rolling 5 fresh players on every 15 minutes. In the second match we faced the 1st division Portugese team (we're 3rd division) and lost 1-0 on a shot from a free kick I just couldn't quite keep out. Brutal heat and we had no substitutes after 1 of our forwards went down with a knee injury. Felt more like a win than a loss!

Lots of fun - tomorrow we're playing the Croatians.

Best wishes,

Doug

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:08 pm

dougb wrote:
Lots of fun - tomorrow we're playing the Croatians.

Wear kevlar. Those guys are supermen!!

Good luck.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:23 pm

dougb wrote: Lots of fun - tomorrow we're playing the Croatians.

I think I was telling Rob this a few months ago - played an indoor Croatian team and during a corner a punched me in the ribs. According to Rob this is how they say 'Hello' in Croatian.

Can't believe you're a keeper now.

I'm quite chuffed as I've scored twice in two games now (scored tonight).

Sorry - back to thread - what 10spro wrote, that's what I feel.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:51 pm

Macca00 wrote:
dougb wrote: Lots of fun - tomorrow we're playing the Croatians.

I think I was telling Rob this a few months ago - played an indoor Croatian team and during a corner a punched me in the ribs. According to Rob this is how they say 'Hello' in Croatian.

Can't believe you're a keeper now.

I'm quite chuffed as I've scored twice in two games now (scored tonight).

Sorry - back to thread - what 10spro wrote, that's what I feel.

Couldn't believe it myself!

Our keeper from last year is coming back for a couple of games as we've been decimated by injuries so it's back to left-midfield for me. Enjoyed my two games in net but I'm needed back in the midfield.

Congrats on the goals! - if you happen to find my goal scoring touch lying about somewhere could you kindly pop it in the post?

Rob will be happy to read that the Croatians are the last place team - 12 scored but 22 conceded in 6 games. Should be interesting as our offense has been pitiful but we have an absolutely outstanding D. Sadly for spectators in the London region the Croatians were unable to make it out of the 1st round of the cup and we were thus deprived of a lovely, if somewhat brutal and fractious, derby match with the London Serbian team. I was all set with the popcorn for that match.

Best wishes,

Doug

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:56 am

Any predictions for the Brazil vs USA match up today?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:15 pm

Pretty hard to see them surprising Brazil. Just a good showing would be encouraging, maybe 0-1 or even 0-2 but make Brazil earn it, not like the group stage game.

More than the final score, it would be good to see improvement on play, that is more shots on goal relative to these powerhouse teams -- not get outshot as much or have possession be so one-sided.

Of course, some were saying possession was overrated when Barca escaped against Chelsea a few weeks back.

Even though the shots and possession were one-sided against Spain, the US did try to attack when opportunities presented themselves.

So there are other metrics as almost as important as the final score, especially since the US should be more about development than winning a relatively unimportant trophy.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:12 pm

It's game time fellas. Keeping fingers and toes crossed.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:45 pm

Dempsey we love you man !

Brazil 0 - USA 1

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:46 pm

That's certainly a nice, unexpected start. What a beautiful pass to set that up.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:47 pm

What a save by Howard and a nice run by Davies.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:01 pm

Could it be they're not done shocking the world? What a play.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:02 pm

What a freaking counter by USA. Awesome Donovan.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:21 pm

45 minutes to go. You can't underestimate the overall play of Donovan.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:26 pm

Donovan has been awesome this game, as has Howard. The tactics of the US have worked well so far, especially on defense. Hopefully the US can put another one in on a counter if Brazil get too aggressive on offense. One thing is for sure, the US are proving that the win against Spain was no "fluke." Win or lose this match, they are showing that they are capable of hanging with the best.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:33 pm

toonarmy wrote:Win or lose this match, they are showing that they are capable of hanging with the best.

While I am impressed whole-heartedly, this is not a big stage like the World Cup. This reminds me of baseball's WBC. A cute little tournament, but it's not one of the elite. Isn't South Africa like number 60something in the world, and they damn near got 3rd place. I predicted Brazil would shut the USA out, so I am very surprised by the 1st half. USA needs to come out strong for the first 15 mins and the game is theirs to lose.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:35 pm

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:44 pm

fletcher21 wrote:
toonarmy wrote:Win or lose this match, they are showing that they are capable of hanging with the best.
While I am impressed whole-heartedly, this is not a big stage like the World Cup. This reminds me of baseball's WBC. A cute little tournament, but it's not one of the elite. Isn't South Africa like number 60something in the world, and they damn near got 3rd place. I predicted Brazil would shut the USA out, so I am very surprised by the 1st half. USA needs to come out strong for the first 15 mins and the game is theirs to lose.

Obviously nothing is as big as the World Cup. Tell me some other international tournaments as big and "elite" as the Confederation Cup. Not regional tourneys, but international tourneys.