OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

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pk500
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Post by pk500 »

JRod wrote:We have no proof if Palin wrote this or not. Likewise, we have no proof how much of the important speeches Reagan, Clinton and others did write.

This is silly arguement because we have no proof.
Sure we do. Just ask Peggy Noonan about Reagan, David Kusnet and Co. about Clinton, etc. They're all still around.

From what I've read, Clinton drove his speechwriters whacky because he used to ad-lib from the podium. I think that takes even more skill to do deftly than to read your own speech from a TelePrompter.

Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Teal »

XXXIV wrote:
Teal wrote:
XXXIV wrote: Independent as in Notre Dame? or Bill O'Reilly? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Huh?
He said he was an independent. :wink:
Ahh, yeah...now I remember...
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Post by pk500 »

RobVarak wrote:Incidentally, the '04 speech was obviously brilliant. But given his inclination to write an autobiography every 2-3 years, it really was right in his wheelhouse :)
Yeah, Obama's autobiographies remind me of those schlocky country or pop/rock bands that cash in with a "greatest hits" record after releasing just three studio albums! :roll:

Take care,
PK
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Post by Jackdog »

pk500 wrote:Jack-diggity:

That kid is missing too much training -- get him back into the gym!

Love,
Eddie Futch

P.S.: Sorry I haven't called back, brother. I'm going insane with preparations for the MotoGP race. Working nine hours during the day, taking a two-hour break for dinner and family time and then heading back to the desk for another good five hours of work each night. Good thing I shaved my head, because there isn't much left to push around up there anymore. :)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Will do Eddie.

Don't worry about it. I know your busy. Dom was digging the whole scene at "Morning Joe". While we were waiting to get bumped he met Patrick Buchanan,Chris Matthews. He had breakfast with Norm Coleman and Jon Voight. Did some shadow boxing with the host. Got kissed and called a cutie by Mika. All that,and he wanted a picture with the guy that ate the chocolate covered bacon at the state fair. :roll: :wink: :lol:
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Post by Teal »

'Did she write her speech? Did she not write her speech? How much of her speech did she write? Is that her baby? Can she be VP and take care of that baby (which may or may not be hers)?'

And now this, from the Boston Globe. Is there no shame? :lol:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/ ... position=8

I especially loved this line:

“It’s about 20 years out of date,” said Boston stylist Mario Russo of the Alaska governor’s ’do. “Which goes to show how off she might be on current events.”

Idiots...
Last edited by Teal on Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JRod »

Teal wrote: Except she was a bit hypocritical. She said her daughter is off-limits. That's fine and I agree. I disagree that the mainstream media went after her daughter. The talking heads did. But I didn't read on NYT they called her a whore or something. They just reported her daughter was pregnant, which the campaign released a press release confirming. The bloggers did go overboard.


Here's my point. It's not okay to go after your daughter, but it is okay use their son, who's will be going to Iraq.

That's using your children for political benefit. Granted Biden did the same thing but I find it hypocritical because McCain/Palin said the family is off-limits. Doesn't that also apply for all children.



This is a ludicrous point. Obama has made EVERYTHING negative about him off limits, and he's the damned candidate! You can't say his middle name, you can't talk about Jeremiah Wright and the fact that he was Obama's mentor for 20 years, you can't mention any weird associations he's had...he's even got a team designed to shut down this stuff. Oh, and on top of that...his WIFE is off limits. Yeah, the first lady.

Kids are off limits. Period. Their son is deploying to Iraq next week. That's a fact. What're they supposed to do..LIE about it? The rest of her kids are 17 and under...minors. Hands the f*** off. The media are all acting like TMZ.
You are so blinded with your hate of the left that you can't even think critically. Most in this thread can't. Just so you don't go off the deep end, I do and have criticized Obama.

They (Palin/McCain) did not say their underage children are off limits. They said the family is off limits. They didn't make a distinction there.

They used their son deployment to show their military support. Their son is their family and they just used it for political gain. It his hypocrtical for them to do this. And if it must be fact for the media to report, then by your logic isn't it also fact that the daughter is pregnant. Hypothetically, if she turns 18 while she is pregnant, can the media than talk about it because now she is a legal adult? Your logic here has more holes in it that swiss cheese.

I think all family should be off-limits. Heck, I believe that the family shouldn't even be at the convention for both Obama and McCain. Obama used his kids in his contrived teleconference on Monday night of the Dem's convention. That is something, I didn't like.

As for Obama, I don't know where you've been but the Wright thing hurt him and it played out. It's not news right now. It might be later.

As for the wife, I just heard this morning analysis of his wife's statement that she wasn't proud of her country. Again, that quote is going to hurt her and it's still being talked about.

The Obama team can say these things are off-limits but no one, not even the media are going to pull back from it. I would say only personal issues are off-limits for the candidates but that's it. Wright, his wife's statement, his political associations are still being talked about. Obama can try and deflect it but this is just a media strategy.

The spouses are mostly off-limits because they aren't elected. That's always been true except when Hillary decided she should be appointed run some parts of the government. And rightly,
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Post by pk500 »

Teal wrote:And now this, from the Boston Globe. Is there no shame? :lol:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/ ... position=8
It was the Boston Herald, a tabloid, not The Globe. You shouldn't be so shocked.

Plus it's Boston, one of the liberal meccas of America. Seeing a story like this in a Boston tabloid should be about as shocking as seeing an anti-gay marriage editorial in the Tulsa World.

Finally, Palin had no problem appearing in a Vogue photo shoot and talking about fashion and her appearance recently. So why should a playful column about her hair and appearance be so off-putting?

The columnist is right: Appearance is an issue in American politics. Have you forgotten how much fun the right wing had with John Edwards' $300 haircuts and how out of touch those pricey trims put him with "regular Americans?"

Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by JRod »

Teal wrote:'Did she write her speech? Did she not write her speech? How much of her speech did she write? Is that her baby? Can she be VP and take care of that baby (which may or may not be hers)?'

And now this, from the Boston Globe. Is there no shame? :lol:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/ ... position=8

I especially loved this line:

“It’s about 20 years out of date,” said Boston stylist Mario Russo of the Alaska governor’s ’do. “Which goes to show how off she might be on current events.”

Idiots...
You love to cherry pick. But since they are attacking and not Michelle Obama it's wrong? If they were to go after Michelle Obama that would be okay though?
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Post by JRod »

pk500 wrote:
Teal wrote:And now this, from the Boston Globe. Is there no shame? :lol:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/ ... position=8
It was the Boston Herald, a tabloid, not The Globe. You shouldn't be so shocked.

Plus it's Boston, one of the liberal meccas of America. Seeing a story like this in a Boston tabloid should be about as shocking as seeing an anti-gay marriage editorial in the Tulsa World.

Finally, Palin had no problem appearing in a Vogue photo shoot and talking about fashion and her appearance recently. So why should a playful column about her hair and appearance be so off-putting?

The columnist is right: Appearance is an issue in American politics. Have you forgotten how much fun the right wing had with John Edwards' $300 haircuts?

Take care,
PK
I agree. It's stupid but not once today or last night did I hear the mainstream media talk about her hair, fashion, glasses etc. They talked about the content of her speech and delivery.
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Post by GTHobbes »

Why don't these people write their own speeches? Reading from someone else's script makes 'em nothing more than a glorified actor/actress, IMO. They said on Fox last night that Bush's speech writer was the person who wrote Palin's (maybe that guy/gal is the one who should run for President...even if he/she isn't as sexy as Palin. At least the thoughts would be his/her own).

Regardless, using Bush's speechwriter isn't a good way to convince us independents that we're not in for 4 more years of the same.
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Post by Brando70 »

pk500 wrote:The columnist is right: Appearance is an issue in American politics. Have you forgotten how much fun the right wing had with John Edwards' $300 haircuts and how out of touch those pricey trims put him with "regular Americans?"
To be fair, it's much harder to score chicks walking out of Supercuts.
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Post by Teal »

Apparently, from what I've been reading in blog land (which is admittedly not actual news, but it's in lots and lots of blogs), Palin's teleprompter broke, forcing her to 'wing' the last half of her speech. Didn't sound 'winged' to me...

...for what it's worth, apparently the teleprompter was also malfunctioning during Guiliani's speech...who knows?
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Post by Brando70 »

GTHobbes wrote:Why don't these people write their own speeches? Reading from someone else's script makes 'em nothing more than a glorified actor/actress, IMO. They said on Fox last night that Bush's speech writer was the person who wrote Palin's (maybe that guy/gal is the one who should run for President...even if he/she isn't as sexy as Palin. At least the thoughts would be his/her own).

Regardless, using Bush's speechwriter isn't a good way to convince us independents that we're not in for 4 more years of the same.
I disagree. First of all, just because they don't write the speech doesn't mean they don't shape the speech. It's not like the writer hands it to them and they take it and run. There are often rewrites and revisions and lots of input from the president or candidate.

The simple fact is that they don't have time. Writing a great speech takes time as well as talent. The candidates or presidents do make sure the messages convey the beliefs they want, and I think they often tell the speechwriters what they want to convey before sending them off to write a draft. That kind of corporate communication is very common these days and one of the reasons I have a job.
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Post by Jackdog »

This morning MSNBC reported that she was having teleprompter problems during her speech.
I think it's impressive during the biggest speech of her life Palin didn't stutter or hack up a lung when this happened. This kind of malfunction has done in many a politician and news anchor.
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Post by matthewk »

JRod wrote:You are so blinded with your hate of the left that you can't even think critically. Most in this thread can't.
At least we can usually quote prior posts properly.

Most of us can't think critically. :roll: Not 12 hours ago you edited out an insult about me being a fool, now you post this.
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Post by JRod »

matthewk wrote:
JRod wrote:You are so blinded with your hate of the left that you can't even think critically. Most in this thread can't.
At least we can usually quote prior posts properly.

Most of us can't think critically. :roll: Not 12 hours ago you edited out an insult about me being a fool, now you post this.
Calling someone a fool is out a line. Saying someone doesn't think critically under partisan talking points is different.
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Post by matthewk »

JRod wrote:Calling someone a fool is out a line. Saying someone doesn't think critically under partisan talking points is different.
Both were out of line to me.
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Post by JRod »

matthewk wrote:
JRod wrote:Calling someone a fool is out a line. Saying someone doesn't think critically under partisan talking points is different.
Both were out of line to me.
Well then I stand by my earlier edited post. How's that. Oh look I quoted you properly. :D
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Post by Jared »

Matt and JRod,

This thread is big enough as it is...it doesn't need to be cluttered by sniping at each other. Take it to PMs, please.
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Post by matthewk »

JRod wrote:
matthewk wrote:
JRod wrote:Calling someone a fool is out a line. Saying someone doesn't think critically under partisan talking points is different.
Both were out of line to me.
Well then I stand by my earlier edited post. How's that. Oh look I quoted you properly. :D
I'm a fool because I don't categorize insults like you do? I guess I'm just so blinded by hatred for the left that I can't think straight. :roll:
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Post by JackB1 »

JackDog wrote:This morning MSNBC reported that she was having teleprompter problems during her speech.
I think it's impressive during the biggest speech of her life Palin didn't stutter or hack up a lung when this happened. This kind of malfunction has done in many a politician and news anchor.
I was impressed with her speaking ability, but Obama is equally impressive with his oratory skills. What didn't impress me was the way she manipulated the facts to sell herself to us and took shot after shot at Obama & Co. Between her and Rudy, I didn't know if I was watching a political convention or a roast on the comedy channel. Rudy was especially childish and ridiculous with his "comedy routine" and his exhorting of his partisan crowd who seemed like they would chant anything. I found the whole thing quite repulsive and would be embarrassed if that was my party of choice. I think the Dem's act much more professional and their attacks on the other side are done in a much more respectable way.

P.S. did anyone else catch Palin's young daughter holding the newborn baby and picking at it's face and licking her hand and rubbing it on the baby's head? I am not a germaphobe, but they need to leave that baby with someone a little more "qualified " :wink:
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Post by SPTO »

Interesting to hear that Palin's teleprompter went poof on her. In that sense she did an even better job then I originally thought. Let me be clear here. I may have bashed the speech and the content last night but she's a very good speaker.

As to this whole argument about speechwriting? Even if a politician doesn't write his/her speeches they often shape it and their views are definitely injected into it. David Frum has said that when he worked for Bush he often tried to craft speeches in the language and worldview of Bush. That's how the whole unfortunate "axis of evil" thing got out in the first place as Bush had earlier hinted that the whole war was a "crusade" etc etc.

I also missed Russert last night. The guy always gave the "every man" opinion on matters and I sure as hell wonder what he'd have said about the Palin pick.

PK I also like Chuck Todd, one reason why he's so balanced and well grounded is that he was personally groomed by Russert. The guy has a polling background but he isn't as biased as other pollsters cum commentators.

Also Jeff Greenfield left CNN last summer and is working for CBS.
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Post by JackB1 »

greggsand wrote:Giuliani's speech is weird...
To say the least. Embarrassing is a more appropriate word.
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Post by RobVarak »

JackB1 wrote:
P.S. did anyone else catch Palin's young daughter holding the newborn baby and picking at it's face and licking her hand and rubbing it on the baby's head? I am not a germaphobe, but they need to leave that baby with someone a little more "qualified " :wink:
Are you genetically incapable of typing without saying something stupid? Moms, dads and siblings do that all the time to kids hair...especially babies hair which is still growing in.

I've seen some others criticize them for passing the baby along "for show." LMAO People have apparently never tried to hold a baby for 45 minutes...
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Post by JackB1 »

Inuyasha wrote:this is very hokey. It's like she's running for leader of the PTA.
Exactly my thoughts. Put this woman in charge of a bake sale....not a heartbeat away from ruling the free world. The fact that the heartbeat in question is 72 years old and counting is a very real concern.
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