Racing Sim Thread, Part II

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:35 pm

So is this thing happening?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:20 am

Man, when you're dancing on the pedals and sliding and floating through a gravel stage in the UK, Richard Burns Rally is nirvana. It's the only sim that can compare to iRacing for me.

Had a GREAT time this weekend with RBR after finding some great setups and good settings for my DFP. My oldest son isn't too bad behind the wheel of a rally car for an 8-year-old, and even my 4-year-old son was sawing away, finishing WAY off the pace yet having fun. But as anyone who has played RBR knows, this is NOT a kid's game. I just turned the damage to Safe for them.

Moving to iRacing, I also spent more time Saturday night at Brands Hatch Grand Prix with the Dallara. This MUST be our next Poker Night car and track.

Shall we? I'm game, brothers in speed.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:10 am

I may not make it this week. It all depends on my recovery.

Yesterday I barely completed one chip up and tried to do a second with my grip reversed. It was a serious failure and now my upper shoulders and lower neck are hurting.

Hopefully I'll be off the DL for the poker night.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:52 am

Recovery? What happened, man?

Get well soon.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:44 pm

I see know how ambiguous my statement was.

I got hurt ATTEMPTING chin ups.

I jumped in too fast and pulled muscles in my neck and upper back. I had a very sore neck and headache yesterday because of it. It felt much better at the start of today, but after spending hours in front of a computer it started to hurt a bit more.

I'm not sure if I can tolerate sitting at the computer using a steering wheel.

Regards,
Smurfy.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:18 pm

Get well soon, man. Brands isn't going anywhere!

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:56 pm

iRacing to conduct virtual versions of many great worldwide races in 2010:

http://www.inracingnews.com/iracing-new ... orld-tour/

This is MEGA cool. I especially like how there will be multiple versions of these races, with participants grouped by class and iRacing rating.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:28 pm

That is awesome! Time to download some new tracks I guess. (I still haven't grabbed Brands Hatch yet!)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:22 pm

Gurantsu wrote:That is awesome! Time to download some new tracks I guess. (I still haven't grabbed Brands Hatch yet!)

Grant:

You MUST get Brands. Worth every penny, and then some. Simply sublime.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:44 pm

Smurfy wrote:So is this thing happening?

Well

I'll be checking the forums tonight if anyone's biting. Bad neck be darned. I need to get back on the horse.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:48 pm

Smurf, there's no chance of me being awake to race tonight. Tomorrow is a definite go for me, and then Christmas takes over until at least the 27th but more likely the 29th.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:11 pm

I know this is rFactor, and I know we've all moved on, but oh my:

http://www.virtualr.net/f1-1971-mod-for ... iew-video/

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:43 pm

GB_Simo wrote:I know this is rFactor, and I know we've all moved on, but oh my:

http://www.virtualr.net/f1-1971-mod-for ... iew-video/

The proof will be in the physics, as with any rFactor mod. Will it be Real Feel-compatible? Will the mod team use Trex for tires and Kangaloosh's suspension-building software, or will it devise its own alchemy that it claims is realistic yet totally defies the laws of physics?

There's an exquisite beauty in the consistency of iRacing, and I appreciate it more and more every time I see a new rFactor mod released.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:07 pm

The real joy in firing up iRacing comes from knowing the FFB will be consistent, predictable and accurate without me having to do anything. That's why I always stuck with Leo's for rFactor. Jump in, drive, and more often than not be told broadly what I need to know.

The fact is that I'm never going to drive a March 711 around Rouen, much like I've never driven an FW06 around old Interlagos, so if I spin through a tyre stack like the driver in the linked video, all I really need it to do is feel like my idea of a spinning March 711. The means by which that is achieved doesn't especially bother me, as long as it is achieved somehow.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:07 am

RSC is closing:

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/

MAJOR bummer. What a fine source of sim racing information.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:23 pm

GB_Simo wrote:The fact is that I'm never going to drive a March 711 around Rouen, much like I've never driven an FW06 around old Interlagos, so if I spin through a tyre stack like the driver in the linked video, all I really need it to do is feel like my idea of a spinning March 711. The means by which that is achieved doesn't especially bother me, as long as it is achieved somehow.

I see your point, Adam. But I've done so much damn MoTeC telemetry testing with rFactor -- hours of my life I'll never get back! -- that I'm extremely fussy with the physics and force feedback with rFactor.

I'm no savant, but all those hours can tell me very quickly whether a mod has proper suspension physics and FFB. If it doesn't, I don't care if the ghost of Jochen Rindt is on my shoulder as I twirl my DFP -- I don't want to drive that mod.

A fussy prick, I know!

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:47 pm

pk500 wrote:
GB_Simo wrote:The fact is that I'm never going to drive a March 711 around Rouen, much like I've never driven an FW06 around old Interlagos, so if I spin through a tyre stack like the driver in the linked video, all I really need it to do is feel like my idea of a spinning March 711. The means by which that is achieved doesn't especially bother me, as long as it is achieved somehow.
I see your point, Adam. But I've done so much damn MoTeC telemetry testing with rFactor -- hours of my life I'll never get back! -- that I'm extremely fussy with the physics and force feedback with rFactor.

I understand completely mate, and if I'd done that much testing I'd be a fussy prick too.

I suppose it helps me that my wheel history reads Mad Catz Mario Andretti wheel > Logitech Driving Force > Logitech G25, and that I lost the plug for my DF so spent a fair amount of time without any force feedback at all. Truth be told, pretty much anything represents an improvement on what I'm used to.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:43 pm

I have no idea if a game/mod is realistic or not. I've been driving the same Toyota Corolla since 1993. That's my only comparison. Other than that, I can only compare a game with the feel of some low-speed karts I used to play in at Formula Kartways in Brampton. I don't really bother with the theory of race car driving. I did borrow a book from James_E once, but that was pretty much it.

I don't like tinkering with FF settings. Whatever the game/mod gives me, I just get used to it or not. I never did get comfortable with the feel of GPL and NR2003. rFactor is definitely all over the place with its FFB. I love iRacing so far because for me the FFB is very comfortable.

Putting aside the FFB, that video footage had me salivating buckets - especially the last scene in the video. How could one not consider giving that mod a chance?

[Edit: Addition] Then again, I can't imagine myself finishing more than two laps in the F1 1971s.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:24 pm

An example of why I don't miss rFactor one bit: The 1993 F1 mod was released for rFactor today, and a variety of users report massive understeer while others say the physics are great with proper setup changes:

http://www.virtualr.net/f1-1993-le-by-f ... /#comments

It's refreshing as hell to know that when a mod is released for iRacing, the physics either are perfect or damn close to it. There's also a consistency in the iRacing physics model that you don't get in rFactor, with its myriad modding groups all having a different definition of the laws of physics.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:16 pm

pk500 wrote:An example of why I don't miss rFactor one bit: The 1993 F1 mod was released for rFactor today, and a variety of users report massive understeer while others say the physics are great with proper setup changes:

http://www.virtualr.net/f1-1993-le-by-f ... /#comments

It's refreshing as hell to know that when a mod is released for iRacing, the physics either are perfect or damn close to it. There's also a consistency in the iRacing physics model that you don't get in rFactor, with its myriad modding groups all having a different definition of the laws of physics.

I gotta agree most of those mods with the exception of a rare few are highly interpreted by the creator on what he thinks the car should handle like and that's why there's so much debate on whether it's accurate or not. It's like trying to argue whether race car drivers are athletes.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:08 pm

F1 1993, then. I've had an hour with it using Montreal as my testbed.

The default setup is awful. Really, truly shocking. There's understeer everywhere. When you lock a front brake, as surely you will, it's always the outside, loaded wheel that locks. You absolutely cannot prod the throttle at low speed without making the front end wash out still further. Down the long back straight it's impossible to get out of 5th gear.

The fastest lap in the 1993 Canadian Grand Prix (and it should be noted that the layout that year was slightly longer than the current layout) was Michael Schumacher's 1:21.5. With the default I could just about run 1:28.5. I was using the Williams FW15C but it's a league edition so that makes no difference. I just really like those colours, is all.

Now, I am to setups what Hulk Hogan is to ballet so I don't usually bother tweaking anything. This time, though, I did. I say 'tweaked'...

I shortened every gear except for 1st which, and by this I was astounded, was already at its shortest setting. I took 12 notches of rear wing off. 5 degrees of steering lock went in. The brake bias came back from 66:34 to 56.5:43.5 front to rear. I added 11% to the power-side diff and took 27% off the coast-side diff. I went nearly 100 lbs/in softer on the front anti-roll, and 30 lbs/in softer on the rear. Front tyre pressures down 1 psi, rears up 0.3. Front spring rate lowered 150 lbs/in, minor tweaks to slow and fast bump and rebound at the front, ride height dropped half an inch at the front and just short of an inch at the rear, and finally 0.6 degrees of negative camber added to the rear.

That car runs consistent low 1:24s with bursts into the 1:23s if I feel daring. The understeer is still there at low speed but not as bad, and the tail comes out now under power. It fights a bit harder than the default setup but it's massively quicker, with plenty of work still left in it, and I did that in under an hour with only minimal knowledge of what I was doing. It makes me wonder why the mod-makers couldn't invest just a little bit of time on doing something similar, because the impression the default setup paints isn't really fair.

That's not to say the physics seem fantastic. For one thing, it's remarkably tricky to spin. The car comes back from improbable slip angles, and when it doesn't come back it seems content to barrel along at 90 degrees to its direction of travel rather than going through a full spin. Equally, I struggle to accept that an F1 car of that era would really be quite so crap at going around slow corners. Then again, I've never driven one, and League Edition physics aren't necessarily designed to be realism's last stand in the first place. The FFB, though, should be, and in this instance it's not very good at all at conveying what the car is doing.

If you've still got rFactor, and if you've already downloaded the 1985 beta and the 1988 carrera.4 mod, keep racing those instead. If you haven't downloaded them, do so. If you wake up in the morning and mentally draft forum posts that begin with, "How can I be Ukyo Katayama?" then you'll find something to like in this 1993 mod, but there's no particularly compelling reason to grab it otherwise.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:58 pm

Allow me to illustrate PK's earlier point with a VirtualR comment:

RaalfX2
January 3rd, 2010 at 18:21

The last few weeks i was racing on iRacing only, but I had to fire up rFactor for this baby. And I have to say it is simply amazing. I’ve had no problems with understeer, FFB or whatsoever. Great mod

RaalfX2 is either a member of the mod team, someone who has never actually driven a car of any kind before or else someone who doesn't know what the word 'understeer' means.

We all have opinions, and we all have a right to express them. Equally, I reserve the right to point out that this gentleman, and anyone else who says they've had no problems with understeer, is a muppet.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:42 pm

GB_Simo wrote:We all have opinions, and we all have a right to express them. Equally, I reserve the right to point out that this gentleman, and anyone else who says they've had no problems with understeer, is a muppet.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:27 pm

An update already was released for the F1 1993 LE mod, and it appears to cause as many problems as it solves:

http://www.virtualr.net/f1-1993-le-by-f ... /#comments

Something tells me this modding group is comprised of "Notepad alchemists" who ignore the laws of physics and simply use "what feels right." There's absolutely NO excuse for that in an rFactor mod with physics-based tools available like Carfactory from Kangaloosh to build suspension and Trex from Niels Heuskinveld to build tires and other physics parameters.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:45 pm

Double post. Damned iPhone.