OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:59 pm

fsquid wrote:thought her speech came off quite well. We'll see how she does on her feet now. The ones that keep America running are counting on McCain and Palin to pull this through.

Who are "the ones that keep America running"?

Not Carly Fiorina, who ran HP down?

Or Meg Whitman, who retired as eBay has hit a wall?

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:59 pm

SPTO wrote:
fsquid wrote:thought her speech came off quite well. We'll see how she does on her feet now. The ones that keep America running are counting on McCain and Palin to pull this through.
So there are no economic types that'd like Obama/Biden?

Just remember the last time a Democrat was in office America was going through a boom economy that was compared (tho I think it was over exaggerated) to the '20s.

Clinton was quite a bit more center than Obama. Obama's policies, the few he's explained, would push us towards stagflation. McCain's aren't exactly the best either, but wouldn't have as dire consequences.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:00 am

SPTO wrote:
fsquid wrote:thought her speech came off quite well. We'll see how she does on her feet now. The ones that keep America running are counting on McCain and Palin to pull this through.
So there are no economic types that'd like Obama/Biden?

Just remember the last time a Democrat was in office America was going through a boom economy that was compared (tho I think it was over exaggerated) to the '20s.

Yep,that happend the second Clinton put his hand on the bible to swear in.

C'mon brother you know better than that.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:01 am

fsquid wrote:
Clinton was quite a bit more center than Obama. Obama's policies, the few he's explained, would push us towards stagflation. McCain's aren't exactly the best either, but wouldn't have as dire consequences.

"Push us" towards stagflation?

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:02 am

The opposing party attacks are par for the course in conventions. It's after the conventions where both tickets will have to prove themselves to the country.

SPTO · Post by **SPTO** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:03 am

JackDog wrote: Yep,that happend the second Clinton put his hand on the bible to swear in. C'mon brother you know better than that.

Well i'm not saying Clinton was the magic bullet but he did enact some policies that got the economy going. To be fair though the economy was showing signs of turning around before Election day '92 so he was basically in right place right time.

I'm not naive to think any ol' Democrat is gonna turn things around

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:04 am

JRod wrote:
I agree and I edited before you posted. Take a look.

Cool. I was not trying to be a dick man. You make some very good points.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:05 am

Inuyasha wrote:The opposing party attacks are par for the course in conventions. It's after the conventions where both tickets will have to prove themselves to the country.

Finally I agree with you in this thread!!!

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:07 am

Gent's if I had a dollar for everytime I've heard "Sarcastic" tonight on MSNBC I could buy you all a steak and a few beers.

SPTO · Post by **SPTO** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:09 am

JackDog wrote:Gent's if I had a dollar for everytime I've heard "Sarcastic" tonight on MSNBC I could buy you all a steak and a few beers.

MMMMM steak!

Hey! don't distract me with food man!

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:10 am

wco81 wrote:
fsquid wrote:
Clinton was quite a bit more center than Obama. Obama's policies, the few he's explained, would push us towards stagflation. McCain's aren't exactly the best either, but wouldn't have as dire consequences.
"Push us" towards stagflation?

sorry, wrong phrase. Speed up our path to stagflation.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:14 am

I thought Palin delivered the speech very well, and gave the Republicans some much needed excitement. I agree with the notion that it seems to be more Palin vs Obama than McCain vs Obama, though, and in the end I think that hurts the Republicans as the race nears its end and McCain gets far more face time. I thought Palin's and Obama's speeches were the best of the two conventions so far.

JackDog wrote:Gent's if I had a dollar for everytime I've heard "Sarcastic" tonight on MSNBC I could buy you all a steak and a few beers.

Did you also catch the 'in this hall' qualifier to a large amount of any Palin praise on the various networks? Obama's speech was 'great,' 'came across well,' etc. Palin's speech was 'great as judged by those here,' and 'came across well to those in this hall...'

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:15 am

SPTO wrote:
JackDog wrote:Gent's if I had a dollar for everytime I've heard "Sarcastic" tonight on MSNBC I could buy you all a steak and a few beers.

MMMMM steak!

Hey! don't distract me with food man!

Have a good night man. I am outta here.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:17 am

webdanzer wrote:
Did you also catch the 'in this hall' qualifier to a large amount of any Palin praise on the various networks? Obama's speech was 'great,' 'came across well,' etc. Palin's speech was 'great as judged by those here,' and 'came across well to those in this hall...'

No. But now that you brought it up. Yes! Good point.

SPTO · Post by **SPTO** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:18 am

I'm leaving the forums here now too.

I must say it was interesting reading the various opinions here. It's nice to see a variety of opinions.

Oh well TTFN

Post by **Jared** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:24 am

I, believe it or not, thought it was a well-presented and well-spoken speech; delivering a lot of red meat for the base, and energizing the far right in the party. It will probably be the best speech of the Republican convention (McCain just isn't a good speaker, other speakers were blah, and Giuliani was horrible.)

Content-wise, though, not so good. She should be grilled for the inaccuracies in her speech (saying she was against the Bridge to Nowhere, saying Obama's plan is to raise taxes when it's only the case for those making 250k a year and up, saying she was against pork-barrel projects when an examination of her record shows that isn't the case, talking about changing corruption while being under investigation, etc.). And she stayed away from talking about her far right positions...a great tactic for the speech, but something that I think Democrats should/will hammer home.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:43 am

Palin is a tougher cookie than I thought. She also has genuine quality about her that I like. She seems about as "real folks" as a politician can get. That resonates with me.

But I do find three things odd about the Republicans' day today.

One, they insist on the media keeping the Palin children off-limits. Yet who was waiting at the base of the McCain jet this afternoon to greet the presidential nominee for a carefully orchestrated group hug and photo op? The entire Palin brood, including the father of Bristol's baby, Levi Johnston.

Note to GOP: You simply can't have it both ways, especially 48 hours after you called the kids off limits to the media.

Two, how many times must we hear that John McCain is a "good man, an honorable man, a decent man?" How does that qualify him to be president? It seems that the GOP just can't let go of the Mount Rushmore/ movie star visage of Ronald Reagan, of what a president should be.

We know McCain was a POW; we know he's a good man. But how the f*ck does that qualify him to be the Chief Executive of this nation? It just seems very odd that McCain has a solid record of achievement in Congress, but the GOP is just glossing it over at this convention to paint McCain as a "good man, a hero."

Finally, it's fascinating to see how much the worm has turned in message between the two parties in just four years.

In 2004, the Democrats ran with a platform of "We're not them!" against the GOP and lost. But it seems like that's the exact platform of the GOP this year even though they are the party in control of the White House.

I know Bush is very unpopular, but doesn't the GOP realize that the Democrats don't occupy the Oval Office and have been incredibly ineffective since taking control of the Congress in 2006 under Pelosi?

The GOP just seems to be running such a reactionary campaign, almost identical to the losing strategy of the Democrats in 2004. It almost seems like they're the challengers to the incumbency.

So very odd. So very fascinating.

Oh, one flippant observation: Levi Johnston looked thrilled to bits to be there. Kid must be thinking: "What the f*ck? Last Thursday night I was dipping Skoal, eating moose jerky, playing NHL 08 and drinking a Bud Light with my boys. Now this sh*t one week later? Oh, f*ck."

Take care,
PK

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:49 am

pk500 wrote:
Oh, one flippant observation: Levi Johnston looked thrilled to bits to be there. Kid must be thinking: "What the f*ck? Last Thursday night I was dipping Skoal, eating moose jerky, playing NHL 08 and drinking a Bud Light with my boys. Now this sh*t?"

Take care,
PK

Gotta love the gum-chewing up there on stage...

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:51 am

There were many great lines in Palin's speech tonight, but I thought this one took the cake:

"Here's how I look at the choice Americans face in this election. In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers. And then there are those, like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change."

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:52 am

RobVarak wrote:I thought Giuliani was perfect grist for the base's mill, and Palin was brilliant. And that's before I came here and saw the reactions. Now I think I may have underestimated how good she was.

-----Edit
Just got the Obama "reaction" and a quick had a quick peek at Daily Kos. I did underestimate...

I'm a little surprised by the level of enthusiasm you have displayed, Rob. I mean, the GOP has begun to go down the populist path here, and you haven't exactly expressed much love for that strategy in the past.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:56 am

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:05 am

I was right to be a bit suspicious of the open mic slip that Noonan made-here's her take.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220447 ... columnists

That sounds a bit more like Noonan...

bphilipb · Post by **bphilipb** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:06 am

PK... very nice observations. I was thinking the same thing about Levi. That guy is calling his buddies right now going can you believe this crap. Too funny.

BB

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:16 am

Teal wrote:I was right to be a bit suspicious of the open mic slip that Noonan made-here's her take.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220447 ... columnists

That sounds a bit more like Noonan...

You're not the least bit dizzy after reading that, Teal?

Seriously, even if you can accept her word for what she meant by the 'it's over' comment, you still see a marked difference between what she is caught saying and what she writes in her paper. Believe one thing but write a sanitized version that plays better for your 'team?'

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:37 am

Jared wrote:I, believe it or not, thought it was a well-presented and well-spoken speech;

I believe it. You're smart and open-minded. And by the criterion you stated earlier, voting for McCain

I think her content was much more appropriate to her role and the themes of the campaign than Obama's was. Obama should've let Biden use his speech to paint pictures of the BushMcCain Boogeyman and stuck to the rhetoric that got him here. I think his campaign was tiring of hearing "insubstantial" and reacted by getting him to include the laundry list in the middle. That just gave the GOP the chance to hammer him (fairly or not) for being a McGovern/Mondale Lib.

As you said, Palin delivered the goods that the base wanted to hear and did it in a fashion that few have ever seen from the GOP. Do not underestimate the power of her humor, her background and her family. She was able to avoid the trap that the Obamites fell into by avoiding the hard right rhetoric.

A word on the bridge to nowhere. We've gone around and around on this, but the fact remains that it was her choice to write it out of the budget and refuse any further action by the Alaskan Congressional delegation. She may have told the communities involved that she was in favor of it, but she killed it. And she's smart to continue to hammer that point.