dbdynsty25 wrote:That is one thing that I like about EA's offering last year. They had superstar players and those guys were considered "heros" at the end of the game. Whether it gave them a ratings boost or what, it made them the guys you had to focus on stopping in the close game. The better players were definitely better (more accurate shooting, passing, holding onto the puck, etc.). They had the little shield icon to tell ya who the stars were and you had to try to shut them down or else give up a pretty sure goal if they have a good look from the slot.
EDIT: TRI...I just noticed you mentioned it not being in 2004...it IS. And I normally am an EA Hater. I just like EA's game a little better.
Exactly! But for me it has nothing to do with whether EA made it or not. I could care less who made it. IMO it had better gameplay and features like those mentioned above that made it a better game for me. That is the main reason I am excited about this year's version.
But, did that stop me from buying Sega's game and trying it out?
EA's hockey game is scripted and this heros crap is cheap. The heros cheat just allows certain players to be invincible and super human. This is NOT realistic at all. If you watch real hockey there is defference in skill between star players and average players, but not a lot of difference- they do not become immune from checking. It is just that the star player play near the top of their potential more consistently . There are times when average players play like star players.
TRI wrote:EA's hockey game is scripted and this heros crap is cheap. The heros cheat just allows certain players to be invincible and super human. This is NOT realistic at all. If you watch real hockey there is defference in skill between star players and average players, but not a lot of difference- they do not become immune from checking. It is just that the star player play near the top of their potential more consistently . There are times when average players play like star players.
Now who's the fanboy? EA's game handled players a lot better than Segas. Of course EA's game suffered from a few problems too...framerate and super rebounds being a couple main ones. Otherwise, it was a damn solid game. Much much better than the previous 3-4 years.
TRI wrote:EA's hockey game is scripted and this heros crap is cheap. The heros cheat just allows certain players to be invincible and super human. This is NOT realistic at all. If you watch real hockey there is defference in skill between star players and average players, but not a lot of difference- they do not become immune from checking. It is just that the star player play near the top of their potential more consistently . There are times when average players play like star players.
Now who's the fanboy? EA's game handled players a lot better than Segas. Of course EA's game suffered from a few problems too...framerate and super rebounds being a couple main ones. Otherwise, it was a damn solid game. Much much better than the previous 3-4 years.
Tell me how certain players are allowed to have super human status in a game is realistic? There is a difference in skill between players, but it is my opinion that it is way over done in EA's game and this unbalances the game. I am not a fanboy, just objective.
They were not super human...they just were the guys you had to focus on. The fact that EA diffentiates the 'superstar' players from the scrubs is already more than what Sega does.
Couldn't you turn off the heroes option last year? I think I did.
I liked EA's engine better last year (except for the slowdown, of course), but I definitely felt the game was scripted during the end of games (approximately last few minutes of 3rd period).
I liked the Heroes notation in NHL 2002 (I think that was the first year they did it), especially the "Heroes" line it let you throw together at the end of games.
Back to the topic at hand, just picked up NHL over my lunch break and played a little over half of a game, Blackhawks (CPU) at Wild. Definitely like what I'm seeing, although I played on the default level, meaning I could carve up the poor 'Hawks D (although that might be realistic and happen on the highest levels). The Right Stick actions are sweet, as is the reverse skate.
I'm going to play this one quite a bit during the lockout, I can tell.
Play with or against Vancouver, for example. Bertuzzi will be an absolute BEAST along the boards, crushing guys to get the puck or being nearly impossible to dislodge the puck from when he's protecting the puck.
Same with Lemieux. He will dipsy-doodle through the offensive zone and make better passes than a fourth-line center.
Jagr is a terror in this game, too. He's very tough to stop due to his combination of skill, balance and strength, which I think this game simulates well in his case.
I don't think there's enough differentiation among all players, for sure. But to say there's none is exaggerating. The bruisers will crush more than the small guys, and the exceptionally gifted skaters will create more scoring chances than the fourth-liners.
Take care,
PK
Anyone else noticing any distinct differentiation among the types of players (ie. skill or power or defensive)?
Nope...i'm pretty sure that little Cliff Ronning of the Islanders is every bit of the man that Todd Bertuzzi is in this game.
pk500 wrote:>>>Nope...i'm pretty sure that little Cliff Ronning of the Islanders is every bit of the man that Todd Bertuzzi is in this game.<<<
That's comical. Was that opinion formed during your five minutes at the kiosk?
Seriously, Ronning can lay out hits in this game, which is unrealistic. But is he as dominating as Bertuzzi in the grind of the corners? Not a chance.
Take care,
PK
Thats not comical it's the truth. I have the game on Xbox so i'm not playing at a kiosk. 7 games into my season Cliff Ronning leads the league in points. I'm pretty sure that I would feel just as confident with the puck on Ronnings stick as I would Bertuzzi's in this game.
>>>7 games into my season Cliff Ronning leads the league in points. I'm pretty sure that I would feel just as confident with the puck on Ronnings stick as I would Bertuzzi's in this game.<<<
Tim:
Where in my posts about Bertuzzi's ability being distinguished in this game did I say that he was a scoring machine? I said Bertuzzi's ability to crush opponents in the corners and get the puck or to keep the puck despite checking from foes was very obvious in this game.
Your claim above is totally different and not relevant to my claims about Bertuzzi one bit.
Nowhere does any of my posts say this game turns Bertuzzi into the bastard offspring of Howie Morenz and Phil Esposito.
As for Ronning leading the league in scoring, that's possible. It's seven games, after all. If Ronning leads the league in scoring after 41 games, then we have a problem, Houston.
Still, Ronning is one of the most clever players in the NHL with the puck. If he was 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier, he might be a superstar.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
pk500 wrote:>>>7 games into my season Cliff Ronning leads the league in points. I'm pretty sure that I would feel just as confident with the puck on Ronnings stick as I would Bertuzzi's in this game.<<<
Tim:
Where in my posts about Bertuzzi's ability being distinguished in this game did I say that he was a scoring machine? I said Bertuzzi's ability to crush opponents in the corners and get the puck or to keep the puck despite checking from foes was very obvious in this game.
Your claim above is totally different and not relevant to my claims about Bertuzzi one bit.
Nowhere does any of my posts say this game turns Bertuzzi into the bastard offspring of Howie Morenz and Phil Esposito.
As for Ronning leading the league in scoring, that's possible. It's seven games, after all. If Ronning leads the league in scoring after 41 games, then we have a problem, Houston.
Still, Ronning is one of the most clever players in the NHL with the puck. If he was 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier, he might be a superstar.
The imbalanced scoring between superstars, average players, and journeymen is always something that has often been out of whack with teams I'm controlling in seasons/dynasties.
I remember in NHL 2002, Mark Bell ripped it up for the first 1/4 of the season. Right place, right time I guess. It happens in real life over short time frames as well, I remember Rob DiMaio leading the league in scoring for a while when he was on the Lightning. But it is really easy to force the puck to a guy and try to get him more scoring chances and therefore really skew the results.
Not much different than my friend's efforts to have Heywoode Workman lead the league in scoring in an old NBA game.
pk500 wrote:>>>7 games into my season Cliff Ronning leads the league in points. I'm pretty sure that I would feel just as confident with the puck on Ronnings stick as I would Bertuzzi's in this game.<<<
Tim:
Where in my posts about Bertuzzi's ability being distinguished in this game did I say that he was a scoring machine? I said Bertuzzi's ability to crush opponents in the corners and get the puck or to keep the puck despite checking from foes was very obvious in this game.
Your claim above is totally different and not relevant to my claims about Bertuzzi one bit.
Nowhere does any of my posts say this game turns Bertuzzi into the bastard offspring of Howie Morenz and Phil Esposito.
As for Ronning leading the league in scoring, that's possible. It's seven games, after all. If Ronning leads the league in scoring after 41 games, then we have a problem, Houston.
Still, Ronning is one of the most clever players in the NHL with the puck. If he was 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier, he might be a superstar.
Take care,
PK
LMAO...i never disagreed with you about your Bertuzzi posts...I was replying to Tsunami's question about if anybody is seeing differences in player ability. I just used Bertuzzi because his name was brought up. I feel I can dominate with Ronning just as much as I could with Bertuzzi. I should mention that I am playing the Islanders in a season so i'm in control of Ronning but I find him far more reliable than Yashin, Hunter, and Parrish when the game is on the line. Ronning can hit and he can score..
Dominate in what way? Physically? If so, that's nuts. Bertuzzi can lay out more guys more quickly than Ronning, at least at higher skill levels.
As for sheer offensive ability, yes, Ronning will dominate as much or more than Bertuzzi because he's a more gifted offensive player. Bertuzzi generates more of his offense through his physical prescence than Ronning does, while Ronning is a better passer, skater and stickhandler than Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has produced only three seasons of 60 or more points during his career, while Ronning has produced six. Granted, Ronning's career has been much longer. But Ronning has averaged .765 points per game during his career, better than Bertuzzi's average of .729 points per game. So it's not so unrealistic that you feel more confident with the puck on Cliff Ronning's stick than you do on Todd Bertuzzi's.
It's quite easy to toss around generic terms like "dominate" and "confident." It's another thing to back up those claims with specifics.
Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
Dave wrote:The imbalanced scoring between superstars, average players, and journeymen is always something that has often been out of whack with teams I'm controlling in seasons/dynasties.
I totally agree. Is it safe to say that hockey games are the least realistic from a statistical standpoint compared to the other "big 4"? I can get realistic stat totals in most categories (at least for my team...not necessarily talking about simulated games) in Madden and ESPN Football, NBA Inside Drive, and ESPN Baseball/High Heat. However, I have never had realistic stats in a hockey game. It seems like my power play/penalty killing percentages, SOG, and individual player goals, assists, and +/- are always off substantially. NHL 2004 and ESPN Hockey were improvements, but I still had odd stats.
I'm not saying I haven't had a ton of fun with hockey games, but I usually have to lower my standards as far as stats go.
TRI wrote:
EA's hockey game is scripted and this heros crap is cheap. The heros cheat just allows certain players to be invincible and super human. This is NOT realistic at all. If you watch real hockey there is defference in skill between star players and average players, but not a lot of difference- they do not become immune from checking. It is just that the star player play near the top of their potential more consistently . There are times when average players play like star players.
That's fine...it's your opinion. I see things differently. But I will not insinuate that you have this opinion just because you hate EA games. And I would hope you could see my opinions with the same objectivity.
Dammit. I just wrote this long post and it erased it by accident. Anyway, my bottom line with this game is that i can CLEARLY see the stronger players in this game. In a league with no true Moss, Bonds, Pedro, Jordan, etc since Gretz and the "old" Lemeuix, you won't find a guy OWNING the ice they way these players own their sport. What you will find is a Thornton, Sakic, Iginla, Marleau, etc being far superior with dekes, shots, foot work, passing, etc than other players. I don't know how that can be missed.
And Sudz, if you extend Ronnings numbers over an 80 game season (he only played 40 as you said), he is basically tied with Czerkawski for third on the Isles, ahead of Peca, Yashin, and Parrish (they played a shorter season as well). So really, the game has it pretty much right.
And Sudz, if you extend Ronnings numbers over an 80 game season (he only played 40 as you said), he is basically tied with Czerkawski for third on the Isles, ahead of Peca, Yashin, and Parrish (they played a shorter season as well). So really, the game has it pretty much right.
pk500 wrote:Dominate in what way? Physically? If so, that's nuts. Bertuzzi can lay out more guys more quickly than Ronning, at least at higher skill levels.
As for sheer offensive ability, yes, Ronning will dominate as much or more than Bertuzzi because he's a more gifted offensive player. Bertuzzi generates more of his offense through his physical prescence than Ronning does, while Ronning is a better passer, skater and stickhandler than Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has produced only three seasons of 60 or more points during his career, while Ronning has produced six. Granted, Ronning's career has been much longer. But Ronning has averaged .765 points per game during his career, better than Bertuzzi's average of .729 points per game. So it's not so unrealistic that you feel more confident with the puck on Cliff Ronning's stick than you do on Todd Bertuzzi's.
It's quite easy to toss around generic terms like "dominate" and "confident." It's another thing to back up those claims with specifics.
Take care,
PK
I'm talking about the video game...I'm not talking about their real abilities? We're talking video games here right?
pk500 wrote:Dominate in what way? Physically? If so, that's nuts. Bertuzzi can lay out more guys more quickly than Ronning, at least at higher skill levels.
As for sheer offensive ability, yes, Ronning will dominate as much or more than Bertuzzi because he's a more gifted offensive player. Bertuzzi generates more of his offense through his physical prescence than Ronning does, while Ronning is a better passer, skater and stickhandler than Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has produced only three seasons of 60 or more points during his career, while Ronning has produced six. Granted, Ronning's career has been much longer. But Ronning has averaged .765 points per game during his career, better than Bertuzzi's average of .729 points per game. So it's not so unrealistic that you feel more confident with the puck on Cliff Ronning's stick than you do on Todd Bertuzzi's.
It's quite easy to toss around generic terms like "dominate" and "confident." It's another thing to back up those claims with specifics.
Take care,
PK
I'm talking about the video game...I'm not talking about their real abilities? We're talking video games here right?
Tim
Nice duck and dodge again. ESPN NHL 2K5 is a sim, right? And a virtual sim is supposed to reflect the player's real-life abilities, right?
Or are you confusing ESPN NHL 2K5 with your beloved NHL Hitz Pro?
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
pk500 wrote:Dominate in what way? Physically? If so, that's nuts. Bertuzzi can lay out more guys more quickly than Ronning, at least at higher skill levels.
As for sheer offensive ability, yes, Ronning will dominate as much or more than Bertuzzi because he's a more gifted offensive player. Bertuzzi generates more of his offense through his physical prescence than Ronning does, while Ronning is a better passer, skater and stickhandler than Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has produced only three seasons of 60 or more points during his career, while Ronning has produced six. Granted, Ronning's career has been much longer. But Ronning has averaged .765 points per game during his career, better than Bertuzzi's average of .729 points per game. So it's not so unrealistic that you feel more confident with the puck on Cliff Ronning's stick than you do on Todd Bertuzzi's.
It's quite easy to toss around generic terms like "dominate" and "confident." It's another thing to back up those claims with specifics.
Take care,
PK
I'm talking about the video game...I'm not talking about their real abilities? We're talking video games here right?
Tim
Nice duck and dodge again. ESPN NHL 2K5 is a sim, right? And a virtual sim is supposed to reflect the player's real-life abilities, right?
Or are you confusing ESPN NHL 2K5 with your beloved NHL Hitz Pro?
Take care,
PK
I ain't ducking and dodging anything. I stand by my original thought that I find Cliff Ronning as every bit as dominant as Todd Bertuzzi in this game. There was nothing wrong with Hitz pro either...it was a great game and you could tune it to as much of a sim as the other games even if it did have line change issues. It did alot more right than all of the other games last year.
pk500 wrote:Dominate in what way? Physically? If so, that's nuts. Bertuzzi can lay out more guys more quickly than Ronning, at least at higher skill levels.
As for sheer offensive ability, yes, Ronning will dominate as much or more than Bertuzzi because he's a more gifted offensive player. Bertuzzi generates more of his offense through his physical prescence than Ronning does, while Ronning is a better passer, skater and stickhandler than Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has produced only three seasons of 60 or more points during his career, while Ronning has produced six. Granted, Ronning's career has been much longer. But Ronning has averaged .765 points per game during his career, better than Bertuzzi's average of .729 points per game. So it's not so unrealistic that you feel more confident with the puck on Cliff Ronning's stick than you do on Todd Bertuzzi's.
It's quite easy to toss around generic terms like "dominate" and "confident." It's another thing to back up those claims with specifics.
Take care,
PK
I'm talking about the video game...I'm not talking about their real abilities? We're talking video games here right?
Tim
Nice duck and dodge again. ESPN NHL 2K5 is a sim, right? And a virtual sim is supposed to reflect the player's real-life abilities, right?
Or are you confusing ESPN NHL 2K5 with your beloved NHL Hitz Pro?
Take care,
PK
Oh and anytime you want to suffer a severe ass shalacking at the hands of Cliff Ronning.....just let me know.
