The real inconvenient truth

[macsomjrr]

From Al Gore's blog yesterday...

Barack Obama has selected an exceptional team to lead the fight against the climate crisis. The group includes:

- Carol Browner, who is on the Board of the Alliance for Climate Protection and previously was head of the Environmental Protection Agency, will serve as Assistant to the President for Energy and Climate Change.

- Steven Chu who won a Nobel Prize in physics and is a member of the Copenhagen Climate Council, an organization that is creating momentum for an international climate treaty in 2009, has been nominated to be Secretary of Energy.

- Lisa Jackson, head of the New Jersey EPA, who has worked to pass legislation requiring cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, will head the EPA.

While this is an amazing group of public servants, we must recognize that there is still a very difficult challenge awaiting us before we can pass new laws that truly solve the climate crisis. Public support for doing the right thing is more crucial now than it ever has been.

Like it or not anti-Earth folks, change is a-comin for yah!

[XXXIV]

Like it or not anti-Earth folks, !

Nice...Anyone that disagrees that the sky is falling is anti earth?

Okay..anyone that believes in this bullshit is anti children.

Why do you hate kids so much?

EDIT: You read Al Gore?....

[matthewk]

Anti-Earth folks?

Guess I should stay out of this thread and go back to burning old tires and plastic bags in the backyard.

[Jackdog]

From Al Gore's blog yesterday...

Barack Obama has selected an exceptional team to lead the fight against the climate crisis. The group includes:

- Carol Browner, who is on the Board of the Alliance for Climate Protection and previously was head of the Environmental Protection Agency, will serve as Assistant to the President for Energy and Climate Change.

- Steven Chu who won a Nobel Prize in physics and is a member of the Copenhagen Climate Council, an organization that is creating momentum for an international climate treaty in 2009, has been nominated to be Secretary of Energy.

- Lisa Jackson, head of the New Jersey EPA, who has worked to pass legislation requiring cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, will head the EPA.

While this is an amazing group of public servants, we must recognize that there is still a very difficult challenge awaiting us before we can pass new laws that truly solve the climate crisis. Public support for doing the right thing is more crucial now than it ever has been.

Like it or not anti-Earth folks, change is a-comin for yah!

I've read nothing in this thread that qualifies anyone that's posted their thoughts as "Anti-Earth". On the other hand please post a link when Obama appoints someone for lunacy control. Those of us that are "anti-idiot folks would appreciate it.

[bdoughty]

I've read nothing in this thread that qualifies anyone that's posted their thoughts as "Anti-Earth". On the other hand please post a link when Obama appoints someone for lunacy control. Those of us that are "anti-idiot folks would appreciate it.

Apparently this is how intelligent liberals partake in civil discussion? Calling others in the discussion, who happen to disagree with his view, clever names and insulting them. Not a first in this thread and just so happens right after he pleaded for a civil debate, without name calling and such.

Do as I say, not as I do.

[bdoughty]

Yeah but he buys carbon credits.

"You too much buying Carbon Credits from yourself." Mr. Myagi

[Teal]

And I don't mind your opinion on religion; in fact, in large measure, I share Carlin and Maher's opinions on organized religion. So nice try at an attack, but no biscuit.

I was raised Catholic and still believe in God, so I'm not saying I share their opinion (that God is science fiction). But I guess we can agree to disagree on the whole global warming thing.

Oh, don't get me wrong-I'm a firm follower of Christ, just not the silly religion stuff. And I DID say 'in large measure', not 'wholesale'.

And see, if we can agree to disagree on the whole GW thing, then it is a matter of belief and faith and opinion, not of science. Which is what I've been saying.

[Teal]

From Al Gore's blog yesterday...

Barack Obama has selected an exceptional team to lead the fight against the climate crisis. The group includes:

- Carol Browner, who is on the Board of the Alliance for Climate Protection and previously was head of the Environmental Protection Agency, will serve as Assistant to the President for Energy and Climate Change.

- Steven Chu who won a Nobel Prize in physics and is a member of the Copenhagen Climate Council, an organization that is creating momentum for an international climate treaty in 2009, has been nominated to be Secretary of Energy.

- Lisa Jackson, head of the New Jersey EPA, who has worked to pass legislation requiring cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, will head the EPA.

While this is an amazing group of public servants, we must recognize that there is still a very difficult challenge awaiting us before we can pass new laws that truly solve the climate crisis. Public support for doing the right thing is more crucial now than it ever has been.

Like it or not anti-Earth folks, change is a-comin for yah!

See? Political ideology, not science. 'Anti-earth folks'...that's cute.

[pk500]

So really, you're going to decide on the issue based on the behavior of one particular individual?

You must have missed the part where I used celebrities in the plural. And since Al Gore is the poster boy for the global warming crowd, of course he's going to take more shots than other stars who have loaned their name to his most noble crusade.

Take care,
PK

[Jackdog]

From Al Gore's blog yesterday...

Barack Obama has selected an exceptional team to lead the fight against the climate crisis. The group includes:

- Carol Browner, who is on the Board of the Alliance for Climate Protection and previously was head of the Environmental Protection Agency, will serve as Assistant to the President for Energy and Climate Change.

- Steven Chu who won a Nobel Prize in physics and is a member of the Copenhagen Climate Council, an organization that is creating momentum for an international climate treaty in 2009, has been nominated to be Secretary of Energy.

- Lisa Jackson, head of the New Jersey EPA, who has worked to pass legislation requiring cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, will head the EPA.

While this is an amazing group of public servants, we must recognize that there is still a very difficult challenge awaiting us before we can pass new laws that truly solve the climate crisis. Public support for doing the right thing is more crucial now than it ever has been.

Like it or not anti-Earth folks, change is a-comin for yah!

How this team is going to save the world? Is Obama's team going to make world policy changes? Most of the countries on these charts could give a shitless about how the US wants to "Green up" the earth. I applaud any efforts to clean up our country,but I'm a realist. If the rest of the world dosen't get on board it will have little effect in this "Climate Crisis".

[macsomjrr]

Guys calm down seriously I didn't mean to offend you with my anti-Earth comment. I hate message boards sometimes, totally taken out of context. You are not "anti-Earth." I take it back sorry. You love the Earth. Happy?

You are anti-believers-of-man-made-pollution-problem-that-is-causing-severe-changes-in-the-Earth's-climate.

I can truly respect your POV, I'm just kinda glad that our new admin doesn't seem to share your POV. I've had to live with Bush's crap the past eight years when it comes to environmental stagnation in the executive branch and now maybe we'll see things start to move in the right direction again.

First stop - http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/20/ ... index.html - Obama will hopefully stop this immediately and figure out how to get this country moving in the right direction for the future. Leading the way for alternative, environmentally friendly energy sources.

[JackB1]

I'm just kinda glad that our new admin doesn't seem to share your POV. I've had to live with Bush's crap the past eight years when it comes to environmental stagnation in the executive branch and now maybe we'll see things start to move in the right direction again.

I can't tell you HOW HAPPY I am to be getting someone in office that seems to care about the environment. Bush undid all the environmental restrictions that were set up by previous administrations and Obama will have his work cut out for him in that respect.

I wish we could somehow pressure China to adhere to some pollution regulations and animal cruelty laws. As bad as we are, they are a thousand times worse over there. They still sell cat meat regularly in China. They also are wiping out sharks with their lust for shark fin soup.

[JackB1]

How this team is going to save the world? Is Obama's team going to make world policy changes? Most of the countries on these charts could give a shitless about how the US wants to "Green up" the earth. I applaud any efforts to clean up our country,but I'm a realist. If the rest of the world dosen't get on board it will have little effect in this "Climate Crisis".

Totally agree it needs to be a worldwide effort. Still doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be a shining example.

[bdoughty]

I've had to live with Bush's crap the past eight years when it comes to environmental stagnation in the executive branch and now maybe we'll see things start to move in the right direction again.

Love or hate Bush, at least he tries to practice a little of what Gore preaches.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp


P.S. Don't_think_anyone_took_what_you_said_out_of_context_based_on_your_previous_insults_or_your_not_so_humble_apology.

[XXXIV]

I have read countless postss from "people" who want to be more like europe. Who have no God damn idea what the f*** that means. Who just want to be loved and held by those dumb fucks..

Screw it! Lets do it!

Enough talk....I want to see some action.

[XXXIV]

I wish we could somehow pressure China to adhere to some pollution regulations and animal cruelty laws.

How bout the way these sub human fucks snuff baby girls?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1506469.stm

http://kassandraproject.wordpress.com/2 ... le-babies/

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

[macsomjrr]

I've had to live with Bush's crap the past eight years when it comes to environmental stagnation in the executive branch and now maybe we'll see things start to move in the right direction again.

Love or hate Bush, at least he tries to practice a little of what Gore preaches.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp


P.S. Don't_think_anyone_took_what_you_said_out_of_context_based_on_your_previous_insults_or_your_not_so_humble_apology.

When all this came out I was 100% behind Bush and his eco-friendly house. A single eco-friendly house doesn't change the damage he has done/tried to do to our environment. The reality is though that Al Gore and his energy guzzling home is a miniscule part of the real discussion about climate change, that is the scientific evidence in favor of our role in contributing to greenhouse gases etc... etc... No discussion on climate change should involve Al Gore's house. It is irrelevant. I don't care if the guy is a hypocrite. He is not my "source" for information regarding climate change. He is powerful spokesperson, and he is a public persona that draws in a lot of people to the debate but ultimately he is merely a puppet and everyone should closely examine and study his sources. I've done that. I believe climate change is very real, very scary and very much a problem that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

Again, this is what appears to be happening with the new change in administration. I'm stoked. Sorry if you don't believe it but you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want.

[JackB1]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1506469.stm

http://kassandraproject.wordpress.com/2 ... le-babies/

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

It is disgusting to say the least. The laws in China only allow 1 baby in the cities and 2 in the suburbs. Unwanted female babies are often just left out on a curb or in a garbage dump. It's horrific. Seems like China does whatever it wants and is now powerful enough to flip the world the bird.
Sad...very sad indeed.

[GameSeven]

A single eco-friendly house doesn't change the damage he has done/tried to do to our environment.

This is typical left-wing rationale. You should take a look at Penn Jillette's "Democrats are the party of Hate and Republicans are the party of Fear." Simply disagreeing with you (or even enacting policies contrary to your beliefs) does not make someone evil. Attributing "trying to do" motive to his policies implies he's acting because his goal is to f**k the planet. Anti-Earth in your own parlance.

The reality is though that Al Gore and his energy guzzling home is a miniscule part of the real discussion about climate change, that is the scientific evidence in favor of our role in contributing to greenhouse gases etc... etc... No discussion on climate change should involve Al Gore's house. It is irrelevant. I don't care if the guy is a hypocrite.

From his documentaries to his Nobel Prize to his desire to influence global policies, he is *clearly* among the most prominent GW voices and his actions are relevant. As Leebo says, how dire can it be if one of the most educated voices on the topic looks around and figures its OK to belch as much CO2 as he does?

He is not my "source" for information regarding climate change.

But he is *a* source. You quoted his blog after all.

Again, this is what appears to be happening with the new change in administration. I'm stoked. Sorry if you don't believe it but you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want.

I believe you're stoked.


Look, a chief fallacy in your argument if that many of us on the other side of the debate are Anti-Earth (love that) or that we just want to screw over the planet, the flora, fauna and everything in between.

The truth is, minimizing pollution is a worthy, if common-sense goal. Having reasonable standards on emissions and pursuing alernative fuels, particularly if the latter has geopoltical advantages that lessen our dependency on foreign a**holes who'd sooner we be dead, are common-sense goals. It's obvious as the world population grows that there could be contention for clean water and food.

To this end, I propose, for starters, we invest significantly in nuclear power plants and give serious thought to more stringent limitations on immigration policy in the future as immigration policy directly influences population policy.

[Feanor]

America doesn't need to limit immigration, it needs to limit illegal immigration.

[XXXIV]

America doesn't need to limit immigration, it needs to limit illegal immigration.

Yes!

[XXXIV]

Yeah but he buys carbon credits.

"You too much buying Carbon Credits from yourself." Mr. Myagi

Mr. Myagi no happy with mr gore.

[macsomjrr]

A single eco-friendly house doesn't change the damage he has done/tried to do to our environment.

This is typical left-wing rationale. You should take a look at Penn Jillette's "Democrats are the party of Hate and Republicans are the party of Fear." Simply disagreeing with you (or even enacting policies contrary to your beliefs) does not make someone evil. Attributing "trying to do" motive to his policies implies he's acting because his goal is to f**k the planet. Anti-Earth in your own parlance.

The reality is though that Al Gore and his energy guzzling home is a miniscule part of the real discussion about climate change, that is the scientific evidence in favor of our role in contributing to greenhouse gases etc... etc... No discussion on climate change should involve Al Gore's house. It is irrelevant. I don't care if the guy is a hypocrite.

From his documentaries to his Nobel Prize to his desire to influence global policies, he is *clearly* among the most prominent GW voices and his actions are relevant. As Leebo says, how dire can it be if one of the most educated voices on the topic looks around and figures its OK to belch as much CO2 as he does?

He is not my "source" for information regarding climate change.

But he is *a* source. You quoted his blog after all.

Again, this is what appears to be happening with the new change in administration. I'm stoked. Sorry if you don't believe it but you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want.

I believe you're stoked.


Look, a chief fallacy in your argument if that many of us on the other side of the debate are Anti-Earth (love that) or that we just want to screw over the planet, the flora, fauna and everything in between.

The truth is, minimizing pollution is a worthy, if common-sense goal. Having reasonable standards on emissions and pursuing alernative fuels, particularly if the latter has geopoltical advantages that lessen our dependency on foreign a**holes who'd sooner we be dead, are common-sense goals. It's obvious as the world population grows that there could be contention for clean water and food.

To this end, I propose, for starters, we invest significantly in nuclear power plants and give serious thought to more stringent limitations on immigration policy in the future as immigration policy directly influences population policy.

Did you not read my "anti-Earth" apology earlier? It was a mischaracterization and I'm sorry. No one in this forum is "anti-Earth" and to all those whom I offended please accept that I made a genuine error in characterizing your position that way. It is not a "chief fallacy in my argument" as you put it. It was a quick copy and paste post and that was the first thing that jumped into my head. It was an open mouth insert foot moment.

If you consider Gore to be the premier scientist on climate change I don't even know why we're having this discussion. Gore is a spokesperson. While I believe he is a very intelligent human being, he is not the one doing this research, studying the numbers, and making predications based on the best models that we have available. I'm not going to stand up for the guy if thats what you want. His opinion is irrelevant to me.

I quoted Gore's blog to make the point that changes are already being put in motion that will hopefully slow the impact that we're having on the environment. That has nothing to do with the science behind it. It was meant to hit home the point that regardless of what you guys think the United States is changing its stance on the issue, and is falling more in line with those countries that are leading the way on environmental policies that combat man-made gaseous footprints. Again, I'm stoked about that.

Bush isn't anti-Earth. He is just ignorant on the issues of climate change. I blame those he has surrounded himself with. Namely the industry that he basically bends over backwards for regardless of the effects it will have on our environment and our children's world. Its a shame but luckily it is over now and we can start moving in a new direction, the right direction IMO.

Is science sometimes wrong? Yes. Is science usually right? Yes. Why? Because it builds from a solid foundation of tireless hard work that enables us to further understand and appreciate the world around us. The hard sciences (chemistry, physics) are telling us, almost irrefutably that man-made gas emissions are having an effect on the Earth's climate. For those people who don't understand the "how" or the "why" that is your responsibility to figure it out, not mine.

There is no hocus pocus magical super secret conspiracy going on here guys. It is happening and we're going to deal with it sooner or later.

[bdoughty]

Did you not read my "anti-Earth" apology earlier? It was a mischaracterization and I'm sorry. No one in this forum is "anti-Earth" and to all those whom I offended please accept that I made a genuine error in characterizing your position that way. It is not a "chief fallacy in my argument" as you put it. It was a quick copy and paste post and that was the first thing that jumped into my head. It was an open mouth insert foot moment.

Okay, I am confused now. Earlier you said it was taken out of context? Now it is a mischaracterization/genuine error? If we prolong this long enough, it will probably be Bush's fault. Poor, stupid, ignorant, Bush.

[pk500]

A little bit of local hard data on this topic: This was the ninth-coldest autumn in Syracuse since the National Weather Service began keeping records in 1950. It also was the eighth-snowiest fall ever in Syracuse.

The ice caps don't seem to be melting here in Central New York.

I'm a strong believer in the reality of acid rain, as the chemical makeup of the water in Adirondack mountain lakes proves here in New York. But it's going to take some real convincing for me to believe that this global warming is anything more than cyclical.

I believe in taking care of the environment through less reliance on fossil fuels, using nuclear power, enforcing existing pollution laws, etc. But I don't believe in spending billions of dollars in a knee-jerk attempt to solve a "problem" that may be nothing more than cyclical in nature.

Take care,
PK