Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:05 am

I went to the mall today and saw this game already came out for 360. it was on sale for 35 bucks at a local videogame store so i think i'll pick it up. hopefully my 360 is fixed but it seems like a cool online game.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:42 am

Anyone notice the advertising hoardings? They have the Fox Soccer Channel logo on them, at least on some stadia. Who says Konami don't improve things for the US release.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:45 am

Feanor wrote:Anyone notice the advertising hoardings? They have the Fox Soccer Channel logo on them, at least on some stadia.

Yeah, I liked that one. I also noticed a Pro Evolution 2007 ad on the actual Fox Soccer Channel yesterday....Now, let's see Konami put a weekly hilight show into the game next year. Not a chance!

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:00 pm

Sorry to spam another thread, but just a final notice that the deadline to enter the first DSP 360 national side cup is 5:00 PM ET today. Sign up is in the other thread. If we get four more teams by that time we will add another group, otherwise we'll go with what we have. So if you have the 360 version and have held out on joining, you might want to consider.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:00 pm

As having played every WE released except for WE: J-Leagues, I think I have a pretty good perspective on it.

The 360 is the weakest version and quite frankly has the poorest AI. The AI has returned back to its cheater state that was frustrating in ealier versions because it completely eliminates any player ratings.

How can Ronalldhino get taken off the ball so easy with poor La Liga teams?
How can John Terry and the Italian defense not play better defense? It's shocking how easy the human defense gets pushed around on 5 stars. Yet on 4 stars I can easily score 3-4 goals.

The passing is really where the game suffers the most. Short passes have been toned down to allow the midfield to keep in the game. Maybe that was a criticism of WE10 and you could short pass your way to goal. Here passing has turned from a intiative artform to beating the system. It reminds me a lot of FIFA where you have to play a certain way to win and that way wasn't football.

The shots on goal have also been turned down. I think some one at Konami turned down the "ini" file way too much for the physics of the ball.

The AI isn't that competant and it's certainly not better than WE10 J or PS2 US. It's just that it's able to hold the ball better in this version without regard of skill. Shaun Wright-Phillips is not equal to C. Ronaldo on the pitch yet in this game too many players are good. A human player should have a tough time taking the ball away from C. Ronaldo but should not expect the same level of skill from lesser players. It's now required that you must bring a second player in to strip the ball away. The other thing that gets me is when you do push a player off the ball, you are stuck in an animation and the offense player regains possession.

There's also some easier ways to score goals. Crosses and CKs are too easy because the AI gets weird and pulls off of the player. Also the AI seems to give a big advantage to the offensive player (both CPU and HUM) as they will quickly pull away to get an easy attempt on header. This is only corrected by the forced physics of the ball going over the net.

There's a lack of screamers in this version as well. WE10:J atleast had some rocket shots and showed off the beauty of the engine. The 360 version has toned this down, far too much.

Lack of fouls is another thing that hurts this game. I've gone 20 min games (or halves) without one foul.

I don't know why there's not the same modes of play as the PS2 version. I understand there might be more issues with the editing features of the 360 but not to have the same modes is classic incompetant Konami.

Sadly, should be see a PS3 version this year, I think you will be shocked how much "stuff" the put in that version.

This version is a step back in the series and not Konami's best work. There's too much wrong with the game to retain the "randomness" the earlier versions had. Where FIFA has move closer to WE, WE has moved closed to FIFA.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:44 am

Couldn't agree more with your comments JRod. I have now played about ten games each on the PS2 and the 360, and the latter is just plain disappointing.

The 360 version is more like FIFA than a Konami soccer game. The individuality of the players and teams is gone. It didn't matter if I was playing with Barca or Charlton, it seemed the same. To me that is the WE series greatest assest, the uniqueness of the players and teams. The passing is off and the shooting seems scripted--in short, the 360 version doesn't have the "organic" feel that the WE series is known for.

My guess is that they rushed this out and attempted to to just port over the PS2 version, but something was lost in translation. (It's funny because imo WE9 played smoother/better on the xbox than the PS2.)

I am sure it's great for multiplayer/online, but I am mainly a offline/ML player, so I will be sticking the with the PS2 version and looking forward to next year's 360 and PS3 editions for my WE next-gen fix.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:58 am

jimd wrote:My guess is that they rushed this out and attempted to to just port over the PS2 version, but something was lost in translation. (It's funny because imo WE9 played smoother/better on the xbox than the PS2.)

According to this interview, the 360 version is not a port, but built from the groundup.

We truly did build the 360 version from the ground up. I'll repeat: this is not a port of the PS2 game. Besides amazing graphics, the next generation of consoles allows us to get more realistic in terms of physics and gameplay. In order to take full advantage of new features in coming versions for next generation, the development team felt the need to start over and not burden themselves with code designed for the last generation. Pro Evolution Soccer is the best soccer series in the world, and you don't keep that position without planning for the future. We always plan on how to make the game bigger and better for our fans.

I am started to be a little disillusioned with the 360 version myself. I can't say that anything JRod pointed out is incorrect. The lack of an editor is not a big deal to me, but playing the computer is pretty frustrating to me, mainly because the CPU defenders on 4 star are utterly unflappable. Not only can I not beat them on the dribble, I can't even turn them enough to create the time to get off a shot or step into a pass. Maybe I need to re-learn how to dribble, but it is certainly very different from WE10J that I was playing (and very much enjoying) last summer.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:59 am

This thread is really perplexing. Some are saying they are really enjoying it and some are saying it's a big step backwards. I have a copy Gamefly'd that I should receive later this week, but in the meantime I am confused. I am OK with the graphics not being so good, but I was hoping that the excellent gameplay the WE series has ben known for has remained intact. From the last couple of posts, it sounds like the gameplay has gotten worse. Please tell me in aint so! Anyone else want to comment on the gameplay of the 360 version.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:03 pm

With the difficulty level at normal, I'm seeing a lot of attractive football. Good space to operate, less crazy pressure by the CPU and a well balanced pace to the game. I would try it out if you haven't already.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:10 pm

JackB,

Best I can tell you right now. WE 2007 360 is a solid game, and definitely not going back. The wide camera angle in HD at 16x9 looks awesome, and playing this online with the DSP crew will be great fun.

That being said, it seems that with the first iteration of the next-gen code rewrite, some of the nuance and balance is lost from the PS2 version. I think JRod's post does a good job of describing the differences. I wouldn't say the 360 version has show-stopping problems (to me), but as a longtime WE player it's just a little disappointing that the 1P game is lacking a little bit.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:37 pm

I just cannot for the life of me understand shooting in this game. Almost all my goals have been on headers. I can't tap the button any lighter and I still have the ball go airborne. It's getting very frustrating. Even in practice mode with no defenders I can airmail shots. It's extremely hard for me to get any shot to go low.

I had problems in previous versions, but never this bad. I'm going to reformat my brain and try over again. I'll take any advice on how to shoot regarding the direction of the joystick, do I use any other buttons at the same time (ie turbo?), etc. Right now, I can't even tap a gimme loose ball with a wide open net sometimes and even when I do the ball goes in the upper part of the net.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:39 pm

I still agree with JRod that the 360 version in single player will only end in tears, primarily because of the ai cheats and its ability to tackle anyone in a split second and to cut out any pass, no matter how perfect. However, that same game is downright brilliant in head-to-head and online, and is well worth a purchase for that alone.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:42 pm

I don't agree with most of what JRod has posted, nor what JimD has stated either. Among various one-off games, I've played an international tournament and a Puma tournament with France, as well as starting an ML with the default stiffs, and I see a massive difference of quality among players. Actually, I find the degree of difference and variety of quality among players to be even greater in the 360 version than what I remember in WE9Xbox, a game of which I played a ton especially in the last week or two before the 360 release.

I do agree that corners are almost too effective for the offense, and in general have had difficulty defending crossed balls. Offensive players do seem to have an advantage there. Then again, I have yet to score in my first three games of the ML with the default stiffs even so, and it's not like goals are raining in off of crossed balls.

They have reverted the fouling to what it used to be before WE9, where I thought they had made a major step in the right direction after too many version with never-a-foul games. Actually, pre-WE9 I could get pretty good at drawing fouls v. CPU, but would never commit any. Gone are the accidental fouls of WE9, the fouls on 50/50 balls, the 'turbo-only' fouls, that made WE9 feel more realistic in that area. However, I have noticed that there are a ton of fouls that are called but cancelled with 'play on' once the ball is regained by the fouled team. A little super-cancel to let the other team touch the ball, and more free kicks will result. Part of the problem is the lack of a 'play on' icon showing up large on the screen. Also, the slide tackle button seems to really be more of an agressive tackle button in that it won't always slide tackle. While I've had many bookings with poor slide tackles from behind, I've also seen a lot more effectiveness from this button in a lot more ways and from a lot more various positions than I remember in previous versions. I'm sure there are tricks to draw fouls, but no matter what this area is a big step back as far as I am concerned.

I've seen plenty of screamers. Where I at first felt the 'zip' was missing on hard shots, I have since teed up quite a few very good rocket blasts. I feel that there is more variety to the shot power, and it is more difficult to get it just right to really hammer it. It's harder to crush one, but it's still in there. Part of this might be me adjusting to the different pace of the game, but I'm no longer feeling that there is a lack of hard shots or long passes the way I did after a few games the first day.

As always I have trouble passing the guy I mean to (I really wish they would incorporate the target bracket in the radar that MajorA's ISS games had, which would be very useful for skip passes and through balls forward). But I am finding a greater range of the quality of shots and short passes from shot to shot and pass to pass with a single player (seems to have a lot to do with relative position of body and ball, relative direction of body and pass, and so on), and even more range from poor player to good player. Better players have a much better time hanging on to posession of the ball when pressured, fight through tackles better, have more control over their dribble, make better passes more often with more zip and better accuracy, maintain their balance under pressure more successfully. The default stiffs of the ML are frustratingly poor in many areas, especially in comparison to the very good players on France, so I just can't agree with the idea that Charlton is the same as Barça.

Online is definitley slower and more sluggish than offline, but it seems to be evenly slowed down for both players, as opposed to the left-to-right advantage of WE9. It took me a few games online and off to notice this at all, however, and so I'm pleased that while not perfect, online is massively improved from WE9 Xbox. I do wish we could play multi-console MP, at least 2 on 2, but maybe next year they will do that on 360.

I'm sure the first PS3 version will be superior to this, since they aren't making a PS3 version of this game but will be releasing the next version of the game on PS3, most likely in August in Japan and October in Europe. Why we have to wait until February just so they can add Fox Soccer Channel and Foot Locker ads is something only Konami could explain.

I am still adjusting to the many differences between this version and the last one, and while it may not objectively be the best or most finely tuned version of WE, I am enjoying it very, very much, since even a bad WE is the best sports game out there. I haven't scored yet in the ML with the default stiffs after three games on the top difficulty, but still I'm enjoying it very much.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:43 pm

Leebo33 wrote:I just cannot for the life of me understand shooting in this game. Almost all my goals have been on headers. I can't tap the button any lighter and I still have the ball go airborne. It's getting very frustrating. Even in practice mode with no defenders I can airmail shots. It's extremely hard for me to get any shot to go low.

I had problems in previous versions, but never this bad. I'm going to reformat my brain and try over again. I'll take any advice on how to shoot regarding the direction of the joystick, do I use any other buttons at the same time (ie turbo?), etc. Right now, I can't even tap a gimme loose ball with a wide open net sometimes and even when I do the ball goes in the upper part of the net.

I'm just about as mystified with all the skies, but I've found a few things that help. First, whenever possible make sure you aren't trying to shoot on a full run or off balance - ease off the stick just before shooting. Second, hold the right trigger when shooting - that seems to result in more powerful low shots. Third, most players are crap with their weaker foot - whenever possible use your preferred foot. Finally, try moving the stick away from the goal (left when shooting to the right, and right when shooting to the left) - it's a tricky timing thing but sometimes helps. Remember also that there's a tiny bit of lag online from when you start the shot to when it finishes, so you have to tap even lighter there.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:44 pm

Naples39 wrote:
According to this interview, the 360 version is not a port, but built from the groundup.

We truly did build the 360 version from the ground up. I'll repeat: this is not a port of the PS2 game. Besides amazing graphics, the next generation of consoles allows us to get more realistic in terms of physics and gameplay. In order to take full advantage of new features in coming versions for next generation, the development team felt the need to start over and not burden themselves with code designed for the last generation. Pro Evolution Soccer is the best soccer series in the world, and you don't keep that position without planning for the future. We always plan on how to make the game bigger and better for our fans.

I stand corrected.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:44 pm

I am certainly not seeing uniformity of player skill in the 360 version. I think anyone watching the games I've played would be hard-pressed to say that ratings don't matter. I've had Henry, Ronaldinho etc. dance through my defense while lesser players have been unable to get anywhere aroundy my center-backs. I see the same thing with the AI defense. If I'm using a skilled dribbler or a strong player with good balance who is hard to knock off the ball, I can turn on defenders and shoulder them off. If I try the same thing with poor players, or against better CB's, then I'm toast.

I do agree that the fouls are turned down way too far, and said so earlier in the thread. J-Rod may also be right about the inability to hit screamers, as I have yet to figure out a way to consistently get shots from outside the box on target with any pace. I'm not quite ready to call that a conclusion yet, as it almost always takes me upwards of two weeks to come to terms with a new version.

I don't agree about short passig being "toned down." I've had success against the AI and human opponents with the whole spectrum of passes. I have found that long through balls are less effective due to improved AI positioning of defenders, but I've adjusted by using more lofted balls that will allow my pacey players to beat their markers. I just finished a World Cup with England and had no problem having Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham carve up midfields with short passing. I don't feel that the game is forcing me to play any particular style.

I'm not sure what you mean by "forced physics" with respect to balls sailing over the net on headers. I'll keep an eye on this in my next set of games, but replays almost always show that balls hit over the bar are the result of mis-timed jumps, poor header skill or just a bad angle. But I will watch that.

As for your conclusion, I will also hold back my final decision about whether it's retained its randomness or moved closer to FIFA. Right now, the game is every bit as open and random as previous iterations, but I am prepared to concede that it may be due to my learning the game. If I start seeing patterns or holes in the game after extended play, I'd certainly say. But right now, I just can't agree.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:55 pm

A few pages back I stated that the PS2 version was more polished. It has been validated by others. It's just true. WE360 is still better than Fifa, but the PS2 version is just better. The balance and fluidness of the game is 2nd to none on the PS2...I guess that's what happen with years and years of development rather than a fairly new game. If the 360 version really was built from the ground up, they did a miraculous job. You guys saw what happen to the other sports franchises in their first year on next gen systems. The only games that didn't change much were the 2k Sports games...and those were just dolled up ports. WE did a fabulous job for the first attempt.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:56 pm

360 on regular level is the pro level on ps2.

The game is frustrating at the moment but i just think its because its harder, what do you want another game were you step right in on top player and dominate ?

Most likely to be succsefull your gonna have to adjust your style of play.
Try a more deliberate build up were more of your team is involved, bring in your right and left backs, try passing backwards and building up again.

You all may be right eventually but i think its too early to say yet. I mean after 2 years of play with the same game you still see new stuff happening, so after 1 week i dunno.

I see what you guys are seeing also but im not agreeing yet until ive played more.

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:24 pm

Well, I finally have the edited rosters working on my PS2....yay!!!!

What a fantastic sweet game the PS2 version is. Playing as Fulham in the ML with kits and updated rosters and Dempsey in my midfield is soccer nirvana.

I am playing on professinal dificulty and I find it working extremely well.

Between this and MLB 07 my Ps2 will be busy this year.

TheTruth · Post by **TheTruth** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:36 pm

FYI,
was browsing outpost.com and noticed they had WE for $39.99. Not sure who else is selling it for that price.

jimd · Post by **jimd** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:39 pm

pigpen81 wrote:Well, I finally have the edited rosters working on my PS2....yay!!!!

What a fantastic sweet game the PS2 version is. Playing as Fulham in the ML with kits and updated rosters and Dempsey in my midfield is soccer nirvana.

I am playing on professinal dificulty and I find it working extremely well.

Between this and MLB 07 my Ps2 will be busy this year.

PP,

What option file are you using? The one Feanor converted?

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:45 pm

Feanor wrote:Thanks for the info. I would wait a week if I had to since I've had this gift card since November.

Here's a video showing different shooting moves in the game. It's made by the same guy who did the Tricks & Skills guide I linked to in the first post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-5aUoXVOuM

It appears that 'this video has been removed by the user,' bummer

. However, everyone should take a look at the list feanor linked to in the very first post of this thread. I tried some of these moves in WE9 and many of them just didn't work. I am trying to get some of them into my gameplay, right now concentrating on the far-post curling shot with the chip-shot move; very Amado Guevara! Also very difficult to do in a game, much easier to do on the training pitch. Ain't that always the way. . . .

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:50 pm

I actually think that at this point, FIFA does a better job of highlighting the differences between star players and regular players. Guys like Ronaldinho, Messi and Rooney completely control games in FIFA, and the AI feeds them the ball over and over. In WE they are definitely good players, but they don't seem to perform significantly differently than anyone else, at least from my early impressions.

That said, after having logged several months of FIFA 07, I can't understate how much I am enjoying WE's aerial play, the play within the box and (small but significant) the ability to shield the ball while setting up runs. And the game moves very fluidly (it feels slow at first, but that goes away after a game).

It's a keeper.

stevieg987 · Post by **stevieg987** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:02 pm

How does the game compare to the 360 Demo just waiting for it in the mail wondering if their were any diffrences.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:29 pm

Feanor wrote: I have a WE 2007 Option file for the PS2 with the face fixed on my website. It's in .max format:

http://hosted.filefront.com/Feanor5503

Feanor, what's the password?