Official World Cup Spoiler Thread

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:17 pm

As an Italian-American I find some of the comments in this thread in poor taste. No big deal, I'm not offended or anything, I just felt I should at least let it be known.

As an Italian-American soccer fan I am totally disappointed in the way things transpired in this match. That ref was just atrocious. In my mind there was only 1 deserving red in this match. I can go either way with Pope's double-yellow but no way in hell Mastroeni should have gotten a red. I can see a yellow card for the tackle but that was the worst red I've ever seen called. I dreaded USA and Italy being in the same group because I wanted to see both advance. There's still a shot for that to happen. Nothing would wash the taste of this match out of my mouth more than Italy beating the Czech's and the US beating Ghana.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:18 pm

I didn't think that Mastroeni's challenge was two-footed, just hard and late. I'll take another look on the hightlightes tonight, but I'm fairly certain.

As for FIFA's brainstorms, I don't think that consistent mediocrity is the sort of consistency they are looking for. And the only uniformity is inane profligacy in the distribution of cards.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:43 pm

I'm with PK--Pope's second yellow was harsh but you could make a case that the call wasn't necessarily out of line. Mastro's foul on other hand was in no way shape or form a straight red. Utterly ridiculous. From the side (not from behind), spikes down, and not two footed. If you watch it closely you will even notice he made contact with the ball first before following through into Pirlo's legs!! A foul like that is usually a yellow, but often no card at all. A straight red is completely inexplicable.

Just a shame because the US came out to play. It's not like they put on a classic performance, but they played hard and aggressive. Italy was flopping all over the place when most of the plays was just good physical play in the midfield by the US.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:07 pm

U-20 World Cup is in Canada next year...Anyone thinking of going?

Grant Wahl's opinion's on the Red Cards.

SI.com: What was your assessment of the refereeing in a U.S.-Italy match that featured three ejections?

Wahl: I thought the two red card calls [against U.S. midfielder Pablo Mastroeni and Italy's Daniele De Rossi] were legit, just total red card challenges. A little more dubious was perhaps the second yellow card given to Eddie Pope. But it was a hard tackle from behind, and that's the kind of thing you don't want to take a risk on in that situation in the second half.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:14 pm

I have a fever and the only cure is more cowbell.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:15 pm

Zlax45 wrote:U-20 World Cup is in Canada next year...Anyone thinking of going?

Grant Wahl's opinion's on the Red Cards.

SI.com: What was your assessment of the refereeing in a U.S.-Italy match that featured three ejections?

Wahl: I thought the two red card calls [against U.S. midfielder Pablo Mastroeni and Italy's Daniele De Rossi] were legit, just total red card challenges. A little more dubious was perhaps the second yellow card given to Eddie Pope. But it was a hard tackle from behind, and that's the kind of thing you don't want to take a risk on in that situation in the second half.

Wow, I'm amazed Wahl said that. For my money Wahl is the best soccer writer in the US. And no, still doesn't change my opinion that a straight red for that play is bogus. Pablo makes a tackle like that in every single game he plays in (if not more than one).

Do you have link for that piece? I'd like to read the rest of his writing anyway.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:36 pm

Naples:

Linkage:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/w ... index.html

Take care,
PK

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:52 pm

Nice try by the Aussies today. You guys can say all you want about the Italians and their diving but at least they draw contact before they dive. The Brazilians were flopping all over the field without the contact. The ref was all over their jocks too. I counted at least 5 fouls called against the Aussies that should have been called on Brazil. It's a shame the Brazilians are playing like that since they have so much talent they'd be better off just playing the game.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:12 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:Nice try by the Aussies today. You guys can say all you want about the Italians and their diving but at least they draw contact before they dive. The Brazilians were flopping all over the field without the contact. The ref was all over their jocks too. I counted at least 5 fouls called against the Aussies that should have been called on Brazil. It's a shame the Brazilians are playing like that since they have so much talent they'd be better off just playing the game.

Brazil have the same manager as they had when they won in '94. Back then they the team became known more for its ability to get results than to play attractive football. I don't expect too much from them this time around and would like to see them get spanked early in the knockout round.

Ronaldo is a fat git!

Best wishes,

Doug

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:14 pm

dougb wrote: Ronaldo is a fat git!

I wouldnt go that far but he is slow and seems a bit uninterested.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:57 pm

The French will need to rebuild: Major. I feel for Zidane, he may have played his last game in this WC if France is eliminated, and they may just have with the late Korean tie. Can anyone else score other than Henry? Why D.Trezeguet is not a starter?

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:52 pm

I don't appreciate the greasy haired Italian comments either. No need to go there.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:33 pm

France has real problems. Henry is arguably one of the best players in the game, yet is not a factor in international competitions. I think French has the talent but not the teamwork.

Brazil seems beatable in the early stages. The Aussies and the Croatians had excellent oppurtunities. If they play that sloppy against a better squad they will not get the "W".

One thing though that I think seperated the Brazilians are the runs. You see them running all the time. You don't see what with the US. Watching France today, the players stood around. Brazil pass and go all game long. That's why they create so many chances. Ecuador has been doing this throughout the tournament and that's why they have 6 points.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:55 pm

JRod wrote: Brazil pass and go all game long. That's why they create so many chances. Ecuador has been doing this throughout the tournament and that's why they have 6 points.

It's the SA style baby. Il Jogo Bonito. Look at the Argentine's second goal vs Serbia & Montenegro. A total of 26 passes between different players, 3 pass and go, and heel pass to the eventual wonderful Cambiasso's GOLAZO!

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:06 am

kevinpars wrote:I don't appreciate the greasy haired Italian comments either. No need to go there.

I certainly didn't mean to offend any DSP'ers of Italian descent or inclination. Indeed, I spent the entire match next to one of my best friends, a first generation Italian-American wearing a Totti jersey.

But honestly, looking at this I have a hard time coming up with a more accurate adjective. And for what it's worth this is a comment on a fashion choice, not a perjorative description based on ethnicity or race. Nevertheless, if I offended someone's sensibilities, I do apologize.

Not to mention that I find it odd that I called them cheaters and divers and the comment that people took offense to regarded their preference of hair style.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:06 am

10spro wrote:
JRod wrote: Brazil pass and go all game long. That's why they create so many chances. Ecuador has been doing this throughout the tournament and that's why they have 6 points.
It's the SA style baby. Il Jogo Bonito. Look at the Argentine's second goal vs Serbia & Montenegro. A total of 26 passes between different players, 3 pass and go, and heel pass to the eventual wonderful Cambiasso's GOLAZO!

If this was the NFL, every team would be doing this next year. I wonder why more teams don't have this style. Is it talent? Heart? Strategy?

Ok the US doesn't have a Ronaldhino but surely they could run around a bit more. I'm wondering if this style leaves the defense completely exposed. People can say this is the SA style but you know what it works. Brazil has more than a handful of World Cups. Surely if its that successful other teams would adapt it?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:34 am

JRod wrote:
Ok the US doesn't have a Ronaldhino but surely they could run around a bit more. I'm wondering if this style leaves the defense completely exposed. People can say this is the SA style but you know what it works. Brazil has more than a handful of World Cups. Surely if its that successful other teams would adapt it?

Actually, the US are a more active side than most. Faster too.

The reason that Brazil are hard to emulate is mostly a matter of talent. Their technique is virtually unmatched. Their attacking players are so good that they can pin teams back and not fear counter-attack because the defense is so packed in. This frees up the side backs to come forward, WAY forward, increasing offensive firepower.

In previous years Roberto Carlos and Cafu spent more time in the attacking third than any other defensive players. Indeed they were defenders in name only. This year, with them at advanced ages, Brazil seems to have begun relying more on Ze Roberto to cover for them (a risky proposition, as good as he is.)

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:05 am

Wow...I cannot believe guys are actually offended by greasy haired Italians...LOL. It has now become apparent why everyone thinks America has been pussified.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:11 am

No problem Rob. At least you didn't suggest that I was "pussified".

From here on out I will only get upset about important things like extemporanious posts on web boards.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:40 am

Rob:

For the record, Totti got a haircut. I didn't even recognize the dude without the rather wet-looking locks!

But honestly, I have to co-sign in a way here with DB. I never saw the term "Wop" or "f*cking ginzos" used in reference to the Italians, so what's wrong with calling them "greasy haired" IN JEST? Rob's photo essay shows that's merely the truth in regards to the men's national team, which apparently has been addicted to hair gel for quite some time.

I called them "slimeballs" in a very veiled reference to their hair but more for their propensity for theatrics and diving.

I'm an Irish/German American. If someone called me or the Irish national football team a bunch of drunk, brawling Micks, I could care less. I'd laugh right along.

Yes, not every ethnic stereotype is the same. The "N word" or other derisive words to describe blacks (I HATE the term African-American, by the way -- no one calls me a Caucasian-American), calling any Jew a "kike" or a "Christ killer" or calling any German with terms in reference to the Holocaust are over the line. And I certainly wouldn't perpetuate any stereotype of any kind with children. But we're adult men on a message board in which many of us have become acquaintances or friends. I thought good-natured ribbing was OK here.

But "greasy-haired Italian?" Wow, PC really is the norm now in America if that's offensive.

No more from me on this topic. Back to the footie!

Take care,
PK

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:48 am

I am still having a blast here in Germany. I got to see Jared and his lovely wife for only a few short minutes before they headed into the game, and we missed each other afterwards. I hope we get to share some beers in Nuremberg. I did however shake the hand and have a hello with Bora himself who, looking rather well tanned and a bit ruffled not to mention in a big rush, was heading in to pick up his ticket about a half hour before the game.

It was truly amazing to witness the effort put forth by the US players in the second half against Italy, particularly in the final 20' or so. They truly gave all they had, especially McBride and Reyna who were out of gas by the 65th minute or so. To see the players visibly responding to the noise we were trying to make was inspiring. One could tell the entire US contingent in the stands knew that it was important for us to try as much as we could to help out the team. I only hope you could hear us on TV, becasue we couldn't hear the Itlaians at all. When the players came over after the match to express their appreciation for our noise, it was a wonderful moment for all of us in the stands. Yeah, that kind of thing happens often, but that night it was a special moment.

Going in, many of us thought this would be the end of our WC, and that the Ghana game would be meaningless. Now, we have everything to play for, and after the Czech game, that is almost hard to believe. It was wonderful to see the boys playing with agression and energy from the first whistle. It was what we had expected all along, and why we were all so angry after the first game. Many Germans I have spoken to were indeed impressed with the draw, and more so with the attacking play we showed in the first half. Players showed they belonged at this level, and in the end that is what truly matters.

This Ghana game will be something. Both teams will be thinking they need a win, so it should be all-out from the opening whistle. I haven't had a chance to see Ghana play, but I think their goal scorers are out due to yellow cards. That's good, since Pope and I'm pretty sure Gooch are both out as well, along with Mastroeni. I bet we see O'Brien for 90' and Conway (who I thought did very well for his first WC appearance) and *gasp* Berhalter in the center back spots. I'd love to see Dempsey, as I thought he was great the other night, and I am waiting for Convey to snap out of his funk, though his dead ball strikes have not been terrible. This game could be the one where E.J. breaks out. We'll see.

OK gang, enjoy the rest of this early round action! The real tourney begins in the second round, so let's hope we can get there, even if it is the Brazilians we end up with.

And of course, since we need the help. . . Forza Italia!

Take care,

Zeppo

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:14 am

Wow, Zep, what a great experience. What memories. What fun!

I'm a jealous motherf*cker and am traveling vicariously through you. Keep the reports coming, and continue to have a GREAT time!

Forza Italia, indeed!

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:31 am

Good news for American soccer, from Sports Business Daily:

*ABC Earns 5.2 Overnight Nielsen Rating For U.S.-Italy World Cup Match.

That's a HELL of a rating for soccer, especially considering it was up against the U.S. Open.

A 5.2 is higher than just about any nationally televised regular-season NBA or MLB game, higher than ANY NHL game, higher than most golf tournaments outside of majors and about the same as most NASCAR races and the Indy 500.

Very impressive. Yeah, it's not going to raise MLS ratings higher than those for test patterns right away, but still it shows that Americans are waking up to "big event" soccer matches, something that seemed impossible 10 to 15 years ago.

I had a few friends and relatives who aren't soccer fans talk to me about the game yesterday, as they know I'm a soccer lover. It was very cool to see their interest.

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:49 am

That Italy-US TV rating is higher than all the non-BCS football bowl games and a tad lower than Game 4 of the NBA Final's rating.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:29 am

Where are you Zeppo?