Hey MACTEP,
So when did Milan become a feeder club for the bigger teams?
Soccer thread 08/09 (will have spoilers!)
Moderators: Bill_Abner, ScoopBrady
MACTEP is back in the Ukraine for a bit. I'm laying even money he can't get back in past Homeland SecurityMacca00 wrote:Apparently Kaka doesn't only belong to Jesus, he also belongs to Real Madrid.
Hey MACTEP,
So when did Milan become a feeder club for the bigger teams?
Berlusconi clearly needs extra funds for those pricey twice-daily plastic surgery bills.
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"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
Or he needs to start using his own transportation to fly in guests to his villa.
What is the logic in the WC group draws? Totally random draw or did they purposely put each powerhouse nation in a group with 3 "minnows"?
Looks like 3 or more teams will get 21 points in their group.
They were saying there was a chance Portugal wouldn't advance and it looks like Sweden has an uphill climb.
What is the logic in the WC group draws? Totally random draw or did they purposely put each powerhouse nation in a group with 3 "minnows"?
Looks like 3 or more teams will get 21 points in their group.
They were saying there was a chance Portugal wouldn't advance and it looks like Sweden has an uphill climb.
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davet010
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Well, Manchester's hairdressers, car dealers and vendors of metrosexual products will be in mourning soon, MU have accepted RM's £80m bid for the ladyboy...like they had a choice, owing to the release clause in his contract.
United hardcore are now spouting off that they never took him to their hearts - one spanner has just been on the radio to say that they'd written more terrace songs for Owen Hargreaves than him
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 094720.stm
United hardcore are now spouting off that they never took him to their hearts - one spanner has just been on the radio to say that they'd written more terrace songs for Owen Hargreaves than him
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 094720.stm
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
I don't understand the fans saying this or that player isn't loyal for agreeing to a transfer.
In this case, Man U. had to agree to the transfer price, no?
If the cash isn't used to get players which help them win at least as much as this year, shouldn't the club bear the blame for giving up one of the best players in the game?
In this case, Man U. had to agree to the transfer price, no?
If the cash isn't used to get players which help them win at least as much as this year, shouldn't the club bear the blame for giving up one of the best players in the game?
And I am sure that the feeling is mutual. This guy never really felt at home with Fergie's style of play and the soap opera should have been over last season. It was a matter of time and like him or not, I think his best play is yet to come in Spain.davet010 wrote: United hardcore are now spouting off that they never took him to their hearts - one spanner has just been on the radio to say that they'd written more terrace songs for Owen Hargreaves than him
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 094720.stm
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davet010
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I think that Ronaldo had a £75m release clause in his contract, but all that this requires MU to do is to allow him to talk to Real Madrid and that they need to accept the transfer if personal terms are agreed. It doesn't mean that Ronaldo has to accept those terms (as in Kaka's case with Man City),
Ronaldo's diving, cheating play will be a little better received in Spain, it's true. However, Perez's previous tenure and Galactico strategy was a failure, and it will be again this time if he signs the players named, as anyone with an ounce of understanding can spot that the defence is garbage (Sergio 'Sleepy' Ramos at RB, no Cannavaro, Heinze at LB who had seemingly forgotten how to play by the end of the season), and they will still have no ball-winner in midfield.
As for MU using the money to fund incoming transfers, it will just about cover next year's interest payments on the Glazers stupendous outstanding debts for the acquisition of the club.
Ronaldo's diving, cheating play will be a little better received in Spain, it's true. However, Perez's previous tenure and Galactico strategy was a failure, and it will be again this time if he signs the players named, as anyone with an ounce of understanding can spot that the defence is garbage (Sergio 'Sleepy' Ramos at RB, no Cannavaro, Heinze at LB who had seemingly forgotten how to play by the end of the season), and they will still have no ball-winner in midfield.
As for MU using the money to fund incoming transfers, it will just about cover next year's interest payments on the Glazers stupendous outstanding debts for the acquisition of the club.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
Dave, what's your take on Pepe? I see a lot more Barca football than Real Madrid, just because given the chance who wouldn't? But I've been totally underwhelmed by him. OTOH, I've run into some (even some who don't support Madrid) who swear up and down that he's a first-rate defender.
I may be coloring my opinion a bit too much by the extremely poor games that he played against Liverpool.
But I've been totally underwhelmed by him. OTOH, I've run into some (even some who don't support Madrid) who swear up and down that he's a first-rate defender. I may be coloring my opinion a bit too much by the extremely poor games that he played against Liverpool.
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"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
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davet010
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Pepe often looks like the best of the bunch, and has good awareness - he has learnt from Cannavaro.
He is, however, appallingly undisciplined and more than willing to drop his team in the s*** at a moment's notice. This will tell you all that you need to know.
Exhibit A, m'lud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHFkYEbwrQ0
Bear in mind that this meant that he was banned for the Classico against Barca, where they went in front and were then spanked 6-2 at home, and in all honesty Barcelona took the foot off the gas with 20 mins to go. That defeat ended their title hopes, and Pepe's 10 match ban encompassed Real's worst ever sequence of results as they lost 5 games in a row to end the season.
No Cannavaro next year to marshall the defence either - so they can sign the very overrated Kaka (6 years at AC Milan, 0 Serie A titles), Ronaldo and whoever else they like, but they'll need to score 4 a game as the defence, Casillas excepted, is an utter shambles.
He is, however, appallingly undisciplined and more than willing to drop his team in the s*** at a moment's notice. This will tell you all that you need to know.
Exhibit A, m'lud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHFkYEbwrQ0
Bear in mind that this meant that he was banned for the Classico against Barca, where they went in front and were then spanked 6-2 at home, and in all honesty Barcelona took the foot off the gas with 20 mins to go. That defeat ended their title hopes, and Pepe's 10 match ban encompassed Real's worst ever sequence of results as they lost 5 games in a row to end the season.
No Cannavaro next year to marshall the defence either - so they can sign the very overrated Kaka (6 years at AC Milan, 0 Serie A titles), Ronaldo and whoever else they like, but they'll need to score 4 a game as the defence, Casillas excepted, is an utter shambles.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
I think he felt quite at home in 07/08 when he got to float around up front and score 42 goals in 49 games. I'm sure he'll enjoy the Madrid lifestyle a lot more than living in Manchester, but I doubt he'll ever put up those kind of crazy numbers playing for Real.10spro wrote:And I am sure that the feeling is mutual. This guy never really felt at home with Fergie's style of play and the soap opera should have been over last season. It was a matter of time and like him or not, I think his best play is yet to come in Spain.
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davet010
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Well, one in 6 years then, which includes 3 years when basically one of the JuveMilanInter triumvirate was out of action due to the corruption charges.Feanor wrote:Kaka won the Serie A title with Milan in 03/04 and the Champions League in 06/07 where he was top scorer with 10 goals.davet010 wrote:No Cannavaro next year to marshall the defence either - so they can sign the very overrated Kaka (6 years at AC Milan, 0 Serie A titles)
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
Milan was basically out of action for those same three seasons, though.
In 04/05 they came 2nd in the Serie A by seven points to Juventus, who were subsequently stripped of the title. But Milan weren't awarded it because they were in on the matchfixing too, albeit to a lesser degree.
In 05/06 they were docked 30 points at the end of the season after originally coming 2nd to Juventus again, this time by three points.
In 06/07 Juve were in Serie B, but Milan started the season with a eight point penalty and were never in the running.
In 04/05 they came 2nd in the Serie A by seven points to Juventus, who were subsequently stripped of the title. But Milan weren't awarded it because they were in on the matchfixing too, albeit to a lesser degree.
In 05/06 they were docked 30 points at the end of the season after originally coming 2nd to Juventus again, this time by three points.
In 06/07 Juve were in Serie B, but Milan started the season with a eight point penalty and were never in the running.
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davet010
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To a lesser degree my arse, all that saved them from a demotion to B wasFeanor wrote:Milan was basically out of action for those same three seasons, though.
In 04/05 they came 2nd in the Serie A by seven points to Juventus, who were subsequently stripped of the title. But Milan weren't awarded it because they were in on the matchfixing too, albeit to a lesser degree.
In 05/06 they were docked 30 points at the end of the season after originally coming 2nd to Juventus again, this time by three points.
In 06/07 Juve were in Serie B, but Milan started the season with a eight point penalty and were never in the running.
a - Berlusconi is their president
b - the main target was Juventus's fixer, Luciano Moggi
The investigation pretty much admitted that they didn't really look into calls that didn't involve Moggi as one of the parties, instead of following all leads to their conclusion. I would perhaps also point out that Berlusconi in his stints as PM of Italy, likes to pass tax legislation which aids AC Milan (and, to be fair, a number of other clubs - legislation which would never pass elsewhere), that is when he's not extending his immunity from his own numerous scandals.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
Feanor wrote:
Davet010 wrote:
Probably shoulda counted to 10 before posting this but fu ck me! You'd want to have patience.
You can say that again. Might be the reason why Kaká or Ronaldinho weren't lured by all those petrodollars. Great nightlife, sunshine from time to time, good food, pretty girls as opposed to overweight, underdressed (always an unfortunate combination) women downing pints of the brown dishwater that passes for beer in grey old England. Tough choice? I don't think so.I'm sure he'll enjoy the Madrid lifestyle a lot more than living in Manchester
Davet010 wrote:
English supporters are so noble that they don't accept any kind of cheating. Their nobility is renowned throughout the football world. It's best appreciated when they're kicking your head in and singing "you're going home in an ambulance". They like noble spirited types like Joey Barton or Paul Scholes (whose only contribution to the Champions League final was a challenge that would have earned him a red card and maybe a short prison sentence if it weren't for the fact that he's so noble).Ronaldo's diving, cheating play will be a little better received in Spain, it's true
Probably shoulda counted to 10 before posting this but fu ck me! You'd want to have patience.
80 million pounds
EIGHTY MILLION POUNDS!!!
WHAT THE F&*K??!?!
Just insane, then makes the Kaka deal look like a bargain. s***, if they want Xabi Alonso he's theirs....for 40 million pounds.
Man, I am so jealous of those bastards! And it's not like Liverpool are poor either....well, compared to the other big teams we're not so hot.
Regardless, my main concern this transfer window is that Rafa remembers to fork over a little bit more for the extended warranty - that way if a player turns out to be a moaning piece of sh!t he can return him for a full refund (or at least a Tottenham Hotspur gift certificate....hello Mr. Modric).
After the Portuguese Show Pony Real are apparently after David Villa......
Meanwhile Pato is going to ASK Ancellotti whether or not he should leave Milan for Chelsea. Isn't that like reverse tapping up or something? I think reading that news must have blown Harry Redknapp's mind...
EIGHTY MILLION POUNDS!!!
WHAT THE F&*K??!?!
Just insane, then makes the Kaka deal look like a bargain. s***, if they want Xabi Alonso he's theirs....for 40 million pounds.
Man, I am so jealous of those bastards! And it's not like Liverpool are poor either....well, compared to the other big teams we're not so hot.
Regardless, my main concern this transfer window is that Rafa remembers to fork over a little bit more for the extended warranty - that way if a player turns out to be a moaning piece of sh!t he can return him for a full refund (or at least a Tottenham Hotspur gift certificate....hello Mr. Modric).
After the Portuguese Show Pony Real are apparently after David Villa......
Meanwhile Pato is going to ASK Ancellotti whether or not he should leave Milan for Chelsea. Isn't that like reverse tapping up or something? I think reading that news must have blown Harry Redknapp's mind...
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davet010
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Yes, and maybe you'll let me know when you get to the 21st century as well, before recounting your tales of 1970's chants...christ, 'You're going home in a f**king ambulance', that reminded me of when I first went to matches, and it's 32 years since my first.rhymes450 wrote:
You can say that again. Might be the reason why Kaká or Ronaldinho weren't lured by all those petrodollars. Great nightlife, sunshine from time to time, good food, pretty girls as opposed to overweight, underdressed (always an unfortunate combination) women downing pints of the brown dishwater that passes for beer in grey old England. Tough choice? I don't think so.
Davet010 wrote:
English supporters are so noble that they don't accept any kind of cheating. Their nobility is renowned throughout the football world. It's best appreciated when they're kicking your head in and singing "you're going home in an ambulance". They like noble spirited types like Joey Barton or Paul Scholes (whose only contribution to the Champions League final was a challenge that would have earned him a red card and maybe a short prison sentence if it weren't for the fact that he's so noble).Ronaldo's diving, cheating play will be a little better received in Spain, it's true
Probably shoulda counted to 10 before posting this but fu ck me! You'd want to have patience.
As for Barton, well, he does get sent off and banned quite frequently, and he's hardly lauded for it. And while I would be the last to defend Paul Scholes, I might add that there was a referee and 2 assistants running the game, as well as UEFA's ability to retrospectively add punishments, so it's not like it took place in a dark alley.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
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davet010
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Come off it Macca, Liverpool are skint unless they sell players...and Alonso may not be the only one who needs to go to add to Rafa's war chest of £20 WHOLE MILLIONS OF STERLINGMacca00 wrote:80 million pounds
EIGHTY MILLION POUNDS!!!
WHAT THE F&*K??!?!
Just insane, then makes the Kaka deal look like a bargain. s***, if they want Xabi Alonso he's theirs....for 40 million pounds.
Man, I am so jealous of those bastards! And it's not like Liverpool are poor either....well, compared to the other big teams we're not so hot.
Regardless, my main concern this transfer window is that Rafa remembers to fork over a little bit more for the extended warranty - that way if a player turns out to be a moaning piece of sh!t he can return him for a full refund (or at least a Tottenham Hotspur gift certificate....hello Mr. Modric).
After the Portuguese Show Pony Real are apparently after David Villa......
Meanwhile Pato is going to ASK Ancellotti whether or not he should leave Milan for Chelsea. Isn't that like reverse tapping up or something? I think reading that news must have blown Harry Redknapp's mind...
Villa wants to stay in Spain, so Real looks the most likely venue.
I love your comment about 'Arry - City fans were speculating yesterday as to how long it would be before he was on Sky Sports News talking about Ronaldo's move
"Well, he's a player that we've been interested in for a long time, and we offered a very competitive deal, but he's had his mind turned by an offer that we couldn't get close to. I really worry about the future of English football when such good home-developed players get forced out.."
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
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davet010
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Think of it this way
Transfer fee - £80m
Wages over 6 years - £70m
Total - £150m, or about £25m per annum.
Add on another £120m or so for Kaka, and you are at £270m total
Estimated amount of extra revenue over same period (sponsorship, TV and licensing deals, shirt sales etc) - £500m.
Doesn't look so bad now, eh ?
Transfer fee - £80m
Wages over 6 years - £70m
Total - £150m, or about £25m per annum.
Add on another £120m or so for Kaka, and you are at £270m total
Estimated amount of extra revenue over same period (sponsorship, TV and licensing deals, shirt sales etc) - £500m.
Doesn't look so bad now, eh ?
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."
Do they really sell a lot of jerseys?
No doubt they're great players but it seems Ronaldo is widely-disliked and Kaka is low-key.
Just read that half the clubs in La Liga are barely surviving financially.
Other top leagues also have clubs struggling too.
So what happens if these clubs go belly up, they have to sell players and lose games and get relegated or they get replaced immediately?
Seems like the rich clubs are separating themselves more and more from the domestic competition and if they don't create a super Euro league, you got a de facto one anyways.
No doubt they're great players but it seems Ronaldo is widely-disliked and Kaka is low-key.
Just read that half the clubs in La Liga are barely surviving financially.
Other top leagues also have clubs struggling too.
So what happens if these clubs go belly up, they have to sell players and lose games and get relegated or they get replaced immediately?
Seems like the rich clubs are separating themselves more and more from the domestic competition and if they don't create a super Euro league, you got a de facto one anyways.
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davet010
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It's not so much the jerseys, wco, as the massive commercial deals. There was an article on the BBC website about it
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8094864.stm
The system of selling your own TV rights (as opposed to the Premier League contracts which are for all 20 clubs) really allows RM to generate revenue of a different order.
Ronaldo may be disliked by the cognoscenti, but in the emerging and non-partisan markets, he's a recognisible face in the same way that Beckham was. It is also clear that he was bought partly with this in mind.
The man with the biggest problems from this is the new RM manager, Pellegrini. He was clearly 3rd choice behind Wenger and Mourinho, and does not have the experience that they have in managing players with significant egos. He was previously at Villareal, where their CL placing sent the fans into raptures, but that ain't going to be good enough here.
My prediction for next season, regardless of who else RM sign. Second, further behind Barca than this year, quarter finals of CL, manager binned before the end of the season.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8094864.stm
The system of selling your own TV rights (as opposed to the Premier League contracts which are for all 20 clubs) really allows RM to generate revenue of a different order.
Ronaldo may be disliked by the cognoscenti, but in the emerging and non-partisan markets, he's a recognisible face in the same way that Beckham was. It is also clear that he was bought partly with this in mind.
The man with the biggest problems from this is the new RM manager, Pellegrini. He was clearly 3rd choice behind Wenger and Mourinho, and does not have the experience that they have in managing players with significant egos. He was previously at Villareal, where their CL placing sent the fans into raptures, but that ain't going to be good enough here.
My prediction for next season, regardless of who else RM sign. Second, further behind Barca than this year, quarter finals of CL, manager binned before the end of the season.
"The players come from all over the world, the money from deep underneath the Persian Gulf, but, as another, older City poster campaign put it, this is their city. They may now exist in the global spotlight, but they intend to keep it that way."