Racing Sim Thread, Part II

[pk500]

Yeah I thought the long oval setup was not good for Indy, but then IMS is certainly a unique track. No doubt there will be Indy specific setups soon.

I did take the long oval setup to Lowes, and that was a blast as you can hang it wide open all the way around.

I saw that the Indycars will be a road series with a few ovals thrown in. That will be cool!

I'm still a long way from driving them officially though.

Agree, Grant. The long oval setup doesn't work well at Indy. Way too much push. But it was a hoot at Lowe's -- wide open! Although I think some gearing and steering tweaks could make the car faster on ovals. I need to put quite a bit of wheel into the car for it to turn on an oval -- an unrealistic amount, I think.

The IndyCar on a road course is fantastic. Responsive, a ton of downforce. But the back end will jump out on you quickly if you apply too much throttle on corner exit. Feels a lot like the Formula Mazda on steroids.

My first impressions with the Corvette were solid, but unspectacular. Great engine sound, and the brutish RWD power of that V8 will cause the car to step out with excessive throttle.

But the chassis felt surprisingly flaccid to me. Not tight or responsive at all. Maybe I need to tweak my FFB or find a better setup. But the Corvette felt a lot like a Solstice with a ton of power and better brakes. It didn't have that tight feel of how I imagine a GT car.

Again, maybe some setup tweaks will help, including the in-game FFB.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Ah, quick follow-up on the 'Vette. A few posts in the iRacing forum indicate that you need to turn up the in-game FFB with this car. Most people are running anywhere from 3 to 6 notches higher with this car than others.

I use 6 on every car but the Solstice, for which I use an 8. I'm going to try 9 to 12 with the Corvette.

With the IndyCar, 6 feels pretty lifeless on ovals. But it's feels fantastic at 6 on road courses.

Plenty of trial and error coming up! Needless to say, I have a big sh*t-ass grin on my face when driving both of these cars!

Take care,
PK

[GB_Simo]

I wonder how different the G25 feedback is compared to your DFP, mate. I think I've got mine set at somewhere around 16 for all cars. I certainly didn't get that sloppy feeling with the Corvette, so it might well be worth upping yours and seeing how it feels.

Mind, I didn't get that worried about the IndyCar under power, either. At anything above medium revs in 2nd gear, I need to be driving like a monumental pillock to drop it under power. The picture previous, incidentally, was caused by me being a monumental pillock under braking, which happens rather more often than I'd want to admit. I guess it's the result of years spent driving a bundle of F1 mods, but the IndyCar is a bit more ponderous than I'd expected it to be, not as difficult to hang on to as I'd imagined it would be, but harder to get pointed exactly where I want it. I too wondered about how much input I was making to make a turn on an oval, and notice the car seems to support all 900 degrees of my wheel's rotation - PK, is that right for the car? It seems a lot of lock for a single seater.

My efforts in the Spec Racer still resemble those of a man wrestling an octopus and losing. Hey ho.

[pk500]

I increased the 'Vette to 9, and it felt much better at the wheel. Plus I found a proper setup, and it felt like a sports car, not a wheelbarrow. Major improvements all around.

But that 'Vette has some kind of phenomenal torque. Wow. You really need to respect the gas pedal with that car.

I don't like a heavy wheel that requires Popeye forearms to turn. I like subtle forces more than brute feedback. Plus the DFP is a much "notchier," slower wheel than the G25 from what I've read and from what those who have used both tell me. So heavier FFB will cause you to fight the wheel more with a DFP, which I don't want.

I also found a proper IndyCar setup for Indy and was much faster than with the default set. The default setups that iRacing created for both the Dallara and the Corvette are crap.

Man, did the feel of the Spec Racer Ford change with this new build! It's actually a race car that won't spin diabolically under engine braking like the original build. You don't need an ultra-stable setup just to keep the damn thing going straight.

I just turned practice laps with the SRF at Lowe's road course, and it was a BALL. Felt a lot like a more responsive, snappier, whippier Solstice, which is exactly what I envisioned the second Rookie car should be.

Most of the prior SRF setups are junk, as they will make the new version understeer like a pig. But find a setup that was built this week, and the SRF is a far shout from the original SRF. That's a very good thing.

I couldn't wait to get out of the SRF and move into the Skippy. But I might stick around in the new SRF a little while longer than planned.

Take care,
PK

[Gurantsu]

Well the iRacing promotions went up tonight, so I'm sitting on a 3.46 Class D Road license and a 2.59 Class D Oval one. I didn't realize I'd be so close to a C on the road one. Still, for the upcoming season I'm going to go with the Skippies since I got all the tracks for it. I'll be interested to see how much different the racing is with the higher license. Most of my races have been good, but some have been rough with lots of guys making mistakes (especially the ovals, thank goodness I'm good at avoiding wrecks!)

For the Road I have an iRating of 1413 and a ttRating of 1225, but other than helping to put you with drivers of similar skill I'm not sure what they represent or how they are calculated.

[DChaps]

Congrats on the promotion Grant. I was very close to having my safety rating high enough to gain my class B Road license, but I needed the 13th week to get some more races in in the SRF. Unfortunately, my gaming PC crapping out on me did me no favors in that regard, so I have been unable to try out the Indycar or get my ratings increased.

The ratings formulas are somewhat confusing and even the iRacing Sporting Code does not spell it out exactly:

http://membersmedia.iracing.com/pdfs/FI ... 0908_1.pdf

Safety Rating

2.6.1. Safety Rating is a measure of a driver’s overall safety record and is calculated using a formula that takes into account the number of corners a driver passes through and the number and severity of incidents that driver accumulates in the process. These factors are averaged over a set number of laps and updated as each new session is completed.

2.6.2. Each class of license (in each category, Oval or Road) has a related range of Safety Ratings: 0.00 – 4.99.


iRating

3.1.1. iRatings are a measure of racing proficiency and exist to ensure competitive racing and championships by maximizing the chances that similarly skilled drivers compete against one another .

3.1.2. iRatings are the primary factor in assigning drivers to Divisions for the series in which they compete, maximizing competition and allowing members to advance to higher, more prestigious Driver Divisions as their skills improve or return to a lower Division if the competition proves too difficult. (See Section 4.5, Divisions)

3.1.3. iRatings are used to gauge the level of difficulty of a given race, influencing the calculation of championship points to be awarded for each finishing position based on the strength of the field. The higher the degree of difficulty, the more points are available to each driver in the race. (See Section 4.7.2.1, Strength of Field)

3.1.4. Every driver shall have a separate iRating for each category (Oval and Road). Each category-specific iRating is automatically calculated and updated to reflect the driver’s performance in any races joined in that category.

3.1.5. Only races in a given category affect a driver’s iRating in that category. There is no cross-category influence on iRating.

3.1.6. Drivers gain iRating points by taking them away from other drivers in Official Race Sessions. (See Section 5.2.2.1, Field Sizes Per Race)

3.1.7.iRatings are not visible to members holding Rookie Licenses.

ttRating (Time Trial Rating)

3.2.1. ttRatings are a measure of proficiency in the Time Trial discipline and compare an individual driver’s best average lap time at a particular track against the best recorded average lap time for the same car at that track.

3.2.2. ttRatings are the primary factor in assigning drivers to Divisions for the series in which they compete, maximizing competition and allowing members to advance to higher and more prestigious Driver Divisions as their skills improve or return to a lower Division if the competition proves too difficult. (See Section 4.5, Divisions)

3.2.3. Each driver shall have a separate ttRating for each category (Oval and Road). Each category-specific ttRating is automatically calculated and updated to reflect the driver’s performance in any Time Trial sessions joined in that category.

3.2.4. Only Time Trial sessions in a given category affect a driver’s ttRating in that category. There is no cross-category influence on ttRating.

3.2.5. Drivers gain ttRating points by improving their time trial relative to the best time trial on record for the same car at a given track.

3.2.6. A driver’s track ttRating is the average of his/her last 4 time trials at a given track.

3.2.7. ttRatings are calculated by averaging a driver’s track ttRating at the last 8 tracks where he/she has completed a time trial.

3.2.8. Drivers will not gain ttRating points by finishing ahead of drivers with a higher ttRating, nor lose points based other ttRatings. As a driver’s average time trial for a given track gets closer to the existing record, he/she may gain ttRating points, if it moves further from the time trial record, he/she may lose ttRating points.

3.2.9. ttRatings are not visible to members holding Rookie Licenses.

[Smurfy]

Hello folks,

If I were to get a new racing game, what would be a better purchase?

A. iRacing
B. XBox 360 + Forza 3 + Racing Wheel

Which option is cheaper?
Which option makes less demands on my time?

I already have a G25 and a PC so an XBox would make my shortage of space an even bigger problem.

[pk500]

Smurf:

I've never owned a 360, so I can't comment there. But iRacing is the supreme PC racing sim. It bull-rushes rFactor into the weeds.

Then again, the 360 would give you versatility besides racing games.

But if you want a great PC racing sim, you can do no better right now than iRacing. It would be sublime with your G25.

Good luck with your decision!

Take care,
PK

[DChaps]

Hello folks,

If I were to get a new racing game, what would be a better purchase?

A. iRacing
B. XBox 360 + Forza 3 + Racing Wheel

Which option is cheaper?
Which option makes less demands on my time?

I already have a G25 and a PC so an XBox would make my shortage of space an even bigger problem.

That is a difficult question. It depends on what you are really looking for and what you mean by which makes less demands on time?

If your interest is online racing, both Xbox Live and iRacing will give you options at just about any time of day. However, your quality of racing on Xbox Live with randoms will be mixed at best.

Also, from your cost standpoint, if your interest is in online racing you will need to have an Xbox Live Gold acct as well. In US $$ without factoring in used options, your Xbox totals would be $299 for 360 console (you must have the hard drive for Forza 3 so Arcade version is not an option), $99 for wheel, $59.99 for Forza 3, $49.99 for one year Xbox Live. That totals basically $510 for the Xbox Route.

Assuming you already have a good gaming PC for racing sims, for the same $500, you could get a year iRacing membership ($99) and then have $400 left to spend on additional cars and tracks. With that much you could purchase all remaining 14 cars and still have enough left to purchase 15-20 additional tracks depending on the tracks selected and the volume discounting.

However, I would not go that route because iRacing offers way more affordable options to try out the service. Everyone starts as a Rookie for at least 4 weeks, and everything you need to race in a rookie season is available out of the box. The new rookie season just started this week, so for $14 (monthly rate), you can try it out and see what you think before forking over the big bucks. You would also be able to race in any DSP Hosted event that we may decide to run for no additional cost (unless we run a car and track that is not part of the default package).

I have both Xbox 360/Forza 3/Steering Wheel and iRacing. I do like Forza 3, but I have hardly played it in the last week because all I have been doing is scrambling to fix and/or replace my PC so I can get back to iRacing. You have to factor in your personal tastes, and what you are looking for. I think you would find iRacing very rewarding, and it is by far your cheapest route to try out first for $14 and if you don't like it you can always spend the bucks on the 360 later and by then there could be some holiday price reductions to be had.

Check your PC specs for iRacing here:

https://members.iracing.com/membersite/ ... tion=10005

Actually, scratch that, it is not a difficult question. The answer is definitely try out iRacing first for $14. You should already have everything you need to enjoy it with your G25 and gaming PC. If you don't like it, then go the 360 route. Only risk is by then there could be less interest in the DSP crowd for racing/poker nights in Forza 3. However, there has not really been any official ones yet anyway.

[pk500]

To follow up Don's excellent post: You can be assured that we will have private hosted DSP races in iRacing for quite some time in the future, Smurf.

I would like to pick a night and do it weekly.

Take care,
PK

[WPatrick]

Hello folks,

If I were to get a new racing game, what would be a better purchase?

A. iRacing
B. XBox 360 + Forza 3 + Racing Wheel

Which option is cheaper?
Which option makes less demands on my time?

I already have a G25 and a PC so an XBox would make my shortage of space an even bigger problem.

I have both A and B. Honestly it really depends on what you like to do and how structured you like your free time. iRacing tells you when what and where you can race. Forza on the other hand offers offline and online racing day or night for at least the next 6 months or so until the masses move on to something else. Dirt 1 and 2 are also on the Xbox and are fun racing games.

I really think I get more mileage out of my 360 because I can use it for so many types of different games. I also worry about sinking to much money into iRacing because I really wonder sometimes if it will be around 3 to 5 years from now. iRacing offers great racing but it cost a lot and is very restrictive. I am at C class now and really get tired of worrying about my safety rating and not being able to race the cars I have purchased if I get demoted.

[Smurfy]

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

My preference would be iRacing, but I have two concerns:

1. My PC is old - 2 GHz Pentium 4 with 128 MB GForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 4x card.
2.

iRacing tells you when what and where you can race.

Any additional thoughts.

[WPatrick]

Smurfy, please note that any negatives I give you against iRacing have not kept me from re subscribing multiple times. The 3 hard fought oval wins I have there are at the top of my list for most exciting online experiences.

[WPatrick]

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

My preference would be iRacing, but I have two concerns:

1. My PC is old - 2 GHz Pentium 4 with 128 MB GForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 4x card.
2.

iRacing tells you when what and where you can race.

Any additional thoughts.

You can practice alone, and in group practice sessions anytime you want, but they do have a set schedule for official races.

[GB_Simo]

Smurf,

My two ha'penneth:

I own an XBox 360 which I play extensively. Great console for racing games - Forza is sublime, PGR4, DiRT 2 and NASCAR 09 are tops, Race Pro is flawed but fun, I hear good things from the rest here about the Indy 500 Evolution game I'm desperate to get over here...

The first time I drove iRacing's take on the Lotus 79 I nearly burst into song. The points about racing according to schedules are all fair, and I understand what Pat means about it being restrictive - the licence system is a lot like unlocking content on a console game - but the safety rating looks after itself if you stay on the track for a while, and there's so much joy to be had from hotlapping with no point of reference other than your own laptimes that I've never once been upset that I own cars I can't yet race (I actually race very little, so I'm still Class D on both road and oval courses).

With Don's kind and generous help I bought all the cars and tracks in the summer, picking up everything released since with iRacing credits, and I've not thought about the cost for a second since. It's just fantastic.

If you went the console route I wouldn't blame you at all, but you absolutely must give iRacing a go for at least that first month, mate.

[DChaps]

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

My preference would be iRacing, but I have two concerns:

1. My PC is old - 2 GHz Pentium 4 with 128 MB GForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 4x card.
2.

iRacing tells you when what and where you can race.

Any additional thoughts.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you can easily get an answer to both of those questions by investing $14 for a month iRacing subscription and then cancel if you don't find it to your liking.

1) If you find your PC is too old to run it well, but you end up wanting to keep your subscription, you could spend the remaining Xbox cash on PC upgrades. Although I would say if you can run rFactor you should be able to run iRacing. Again, you can check your PC specs for iRacing by going to the link below and clicking on the "Can I Run it Box":

https://members.iracing.com/membersite/ ... tion=10005

2) Get a one month subscription and get a feel for yourself how the racing schedule works. Everyone has their own personal preferences. There are no constantly running open public servers in iRacing, and yes you follow their schedule. However, I would argue that if you are wanting to race online, neither rFactor or Forza 3 offer a "pick any car" and "pick any track", and "pick any time of day" option to find an online race of decent opponent size.

[GB_Simo]

The other thing the console games don't offer, of course, is a crowd of people who really want to race, and race fairly. No randoms, no 14 year olds bashing their way to the front, just good racing with like-minded enthusiasts.

[Gurantsu]

Smurfy,

For only $14 I'd say to give iRacing a go. That way you'll see how it runs on your rig and whether it's for you.

You will find no other racing online as clean as iRacing. Sure there are wrecks and stupid moves, but never are they deliberate with the intent to ruin others races.

The rookie class cars have a pretty set schedule the runs every hour, the higher classes have more time between races. Still, there is practice, qualifying, and time trials that all go off at different times and will count towards your license rating, which will let you race the faster cars (you can privately test any car on any track). Really, it's not much different than us setting up a time for out poker nights, or how much time you wait in other racing games waiting for the field to fill.

With the addition of private races, us DSPers can set up a race that will accommodate all of us and the cars we have, plus no more getting kicked because your rFactor version is wrong!

One thing I will add is that if you do try it, to stick it out and really get your road license up to at least a 3.0, that way you can drive the Spec Racer Ford. The rookie road car is the Solstice, which I REALLY disliked. When I first signed up I didn't race much because I just hated that car (the rookie oval cars are a hoot though). Now that my license is higher and I've moved on to new cars it's a whole new game, and I need to learn new skills which is fun. It is a bit like an online RPG, where you work to level yourself to accept greater challenges. And once you do level, you realize that the way iRacing is set up makes a lot of sense.

Oh, and STAY CLEAN!!!!!

EDIT: I should add that I do have a 360 and most of the racing games listed above, and they are a lot of fun to play, especially with my kids. But when I want to really settle in and feel like I'm participating in a real race series, iRacing is where I go.

[pk500]

Smurf:

I have a 2.2 gHz Centrino Duo and 128 MB ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 in my laptop, and iRacing runs at a rock-steady 51 FPS everywhere except Indy.

Sadly, I get some framerate hits coming down the front straight at Indy on the oval, and I get some substantial hits in the infield on the road course. Both are due to the number of structures at Indy.

The oval blip is very temporary and not too distracting. But the road course hiccups could prevent me from racing on the road at my beloved IMS.

Everywhere else runs smooth as a newborn's ass, and my rig is far from powerful. I'm also using 1x AA and car shadows, so it's not like I'm running iRacing at its bare minimum.

Take care,
PK

[Smurfy]

Again, thanks for all the replies.

I'll give iRacing a shot. I know I fail the online system requirements check, but hopefully it will run even though the shaders aren't supported on my PC.

[Gurantsu]

I've been doing the Skip Barber season, with the first race at Infineon. I'm doing OK, and have a couple of finishes in the middle of the pack with my usual wreck avoidance Spider-Sense, but while the safety rating goes up my iRating goes down because I'm not fast enough compared to the leaders.

But this morning they car finally clicked for me. I got a decent setup from a fellow Pennsylvania club member the other day, and made a small tweak to it, but more importantly I figured out how to drive the thing.

You really drive it differently than the Spec Racer Ford, and it very much has a GPL feel to it. Once I learned to start drifting it through the corners and learned that the car will work with you if you slide it a little bit, my lap times have dropped. I went from 1:57's when I first started, to 1:55's after I tried the new setup to getting a 1:53.002 (and averaging low 1:53's) when testing this morning.

That's one of the things interesting to me in iRacing. With the limited number of cars I really try to concentrate on one and learn how to drive it well and get a feel for how it reacts. In a lot of other games where I can use any car I want, I always tended to jump around to whatever floated my boat that particular day, never really learning one car well at all. Now I'm being forced into it if I want to race well, and it really gives some meaning to private testing sessions instead of just zipping around a track not really being concerned with figuring out how to get more speed.

I certainly have a way to go with the Skippies, but they are growing on me and will probably help me in later series when I decide to move up.

Of course the next race of the season is at VIR, which I've always liked and always end up in a heap next too...

[DChaps]

I've got a new rig now and I spent all last night getting it up and running. What was cool about my iRacing reinstall was that all I had to do was basically login to the membersite, click update, and after about 30 minutes it was all done and everything working great.

So, I know its extremely short notice, but is anyone interested in some DSP Hosted iRacing tonight? I would be glad to be the host. My idea would be to start the server at 8:00pm EDT with 2 hours of practice, followed by 30min qualifcation(10:pme EDT). With the race then starting at 10:30pm EDT. The race then being 30-60 minutes depending on the number of racers and track/car selection.

PS - Grant, those are good times in the Skippy. I am doing my TT now and I am nowhere near you.

[pk500]

Don:

I'm definitely interested if we can get a few more. What car, what track?

Take care,
PK

[Gurantsu]

Sorry guys, just saw the post. I had to work tonight so I would have been out anyway.

[GB_Simo]

Me too - was out watching Haye vs Valuev last night. Am good for some racing pretty much any night for the next little while, though.