OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 4

[JRod]

Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't know that their lifestyle needs to be changed.

Let's see: Someone who has fat hanging over their belt, eats fat-infused foods as a staple of their diet, sits on the couch all evening watching TV and breathes heavily walking one flight of stairs needs a doctor to tell them they're unfit? They can't read the health and nutrient labels that the Federal government MANDATES on all packaging for food sold in this country?

So as a solution we legislate against stupidity?

This is a vivid illustration of the fundamental differences you and I have about personal responsibility.

Take care,
PK

You two are arguing a solution to the problem that has nothing to do with healthcare.


We have some of the highest healthcare costs in the industrial world, yet the 'metrics' like lifespan and all health indicators lag behind.

The healthcare industry, in the US, has the highest administration costs as well.

The fact is that the free market system doesn't work for healthcare. Now before you jump off the socialized medicine cliff, that doesn't mean we need to have a government ran and paid for system.

Some countries in Europe, like Switzerland and Germany have different systems than that in the UK or Canada.

[wco81]

Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't know that their lifestyle needs to be changed.

Let's see: Someone who has fat hanging over their belt, eats fat-infused foods as a staple of their diet, sits on the couch all evening watching TV and breathes heavily walking one flight of stairs needs a doctor to tell them they're unfit? They can't read the health and nutrient labels that the Federal government MANDATES on all packaging for food sold in this country?

So as a solution we legislate against stupidity?

This is a vivid illustration of the fundamental differences you and I have about personal responsibility.

Take care,
PK

Who said anything about legislating anything?

The current system isn't working.

No I don't believe in the "personal responsibility" preached by the Republicans. They don't advocate private health care because it's the personally responsible thing for one to buy their own care. They do it because it's big bucks for their patrons, like the pharmaceutical companies whose lobbyists got to write the Medicare Prescription bill.

The people touting "personal responsibility" are no more self-reliant than anyone else. All those politicians get the best health plan and pensions, courtesy of us, who are suppose to be "personally responsible" and fend for ourselves, while we pay for them.

[XXXIV]

Cant find a broader brush to paint with?

One day Id like to have the magic power to look into 100 million peoples hearts, minds and souls and now exactly what they are thinking and feeling.

Man, would that be awesome or what?

[Jackdog]

It would be great if all the real fatties suddenly started being personally responsible, but given that that won't happen and that their personal irresponsibility generates external costs borne by the rest of society, I think there's a clear role for government.

Does this apply for smokers and heavy drinkers as well?

[pk500]

The people touting "personal responsibility" are no more self-reliant than anyone else.

Really?

I tout personal responsibility daily, and I exercise regularly, try to watch what I eat, drink moderately, etc. So someone who is 70 pounds overweight, eats 400 percent of the U.S. RDA for fat and calories per day and considers cracking a beer as exercise takes as much personal responsibility for their health as me?

Interesting.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

It would be great if all the real fatties suddenly started being personally responsible, but given that that won't happen and that their personal irresponsibility generates external costs borne by the rest of society, I think there's a clear role for government.

Does this apply for smokers and heavy drinkers as well?

Extreme sports athletes, too. After all, the risk of injury is far greater in those sports than, say, golf, so the government needs to step in and protect them.

Take care,
PK

[Jackdog]

Let's see: Someone who has fat hanging over their belt, eats fat-infused foods as a staple of their diet, sits on the couch all evening watching TV and breathes heavily walking one flight of stairs needs a doctor to tell them they're unfit? They can't read the health and nutrient labels that the Federal government MANDATES on all packaging for food sold in this country?

So as a solution we legislate against stupidity?

This is a vivid illustration of the fundamental differences you and I have about personal responsibility.

Take care,
PK

You know what's funny man? Half of Congress is considered overweight according to the US Army Height and Weight Chart.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blmaleweight.htm

I got a kick out of this.

If the fat-fighters win that argument, they'll reach the final obstacle: the sanctity of food. Food is a basic need and a human right. Marlboros won't keep you alive on a desert island, but Fritos will. To lower junk food to the level of cigarettes, its opponents must persuade you that it isn't really food. They're certainly trying. Soda isn't sustenance, they argue; it's "liquid candy." Crackers aren't baked; they're "engineered," like illegal drugs, to addict people. Last year, New York City's health commissioner asked restaurants to stop using trans fats, which he likened to asbestos. But he ignored saturated fats, which are equally bad and more pervasive. Why are trans fats an easier whipping-cream boy? Because they're mostly artificial.

This, I suspect, is where the war will end. Ban all the creepy-soft processed cookies you want to, but respect nature and nutrition. New York City is purging whole milk from its schools, despite the fact that milk has steadily lost market share to soda during the obesity surge. A fact sheet from Harkin implies that schools should treat milk, French fries, and pizza like soda, jelly beans, and gum. Come on. How many people died in the Irish jelly bean famine? How many babies have nursed on 7-Up? How many food groups does gum share with pizza? If you can't tell the difference, don't tell us what to eat.

[Feanor]

It would be great if all the real fatties suddenly started being personally responsible, but given that that won't happen and that their personal irresponsibility generates external costs borne by the rest of society, I think there's a clear role for government.

Does this apply for smokers and heavy drinkers as well?

Yeah, but the government already has significant excise (sin) taxes on booze and smokes. A donut tax might be next.

Extreme sports athletes, too. After all, the risk of injury is far greater in those sports than, say, golf, so the government needs to step in and protect them.

Take care,
PK

People who go rock climbing or base jumping or whatever should be legally obliged to insure themselves for the cost of whatever government funded rescue or medical services they might end up needing. That's the very definition of personal responsibility. It's not about protecting them.

In New Zealand the taxpayers are always footing the ball for idiots who go hiking and camping without proper equipment or taking the correct precautions, and end up lost up the side of the mountain.

[Jackdog]

It would be great if all the real fatties suddenly started being personally responsible, but given that that won't happen and that their personal irresponsibility generates external costs borne by the rest of society, I think there's a clear role for government.

Does this apply for smokers and heavy drinkers as well?

Yeah, but the government already has significant excise (sin) taxes on booze and smokes. A donut tax might be next.

[Jackdog]

This is what happens to fat politicians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdRYdtEN ... re=related

[wco81]

The people touting "personal responsibility" are no more self-reliant than anyone else.

Really?

I tout personal responsibility daily, and I exercise regularly, try to watch what I eat, drink moderately, etc. So someone who is 70 pounds overweight, eats 400 percent of the U.S. RDA for fat and calories per day and considers cracking a beer as exercise takes as much personal responsibility for their health as me?

Interesting.

Take care,
PK

Why don't you quote the whole thing instead of one sentence out of context?

Is that your idea of personal responsibility in discussions?

I was specifically talking about "personal responsibility" in the context of political/policy discourse. You brought it up as if health care should only be in the realm of "personal responsibility."

Not everyone leads a Spartan, ascetic lifestyle. People with long commutes and long hours can't always fit in exercise, even if they want to. Some companies recognize this and implement programs to promote healthier habits. They even pay for additional blood pressure and blood chemistry screenings, as part of a preventive care program.

And guess what, Americans who have insurance are reliant on their employers to provide them with coverage. Some can't get coverage on their own because of preexisting conditions.

But millions have lost coverage in this decade because their employers have dropped health care. Once upon a time, most people had pensions instead of 401k plans. Health care through employer may gradually go the way of defined-benefit retirement plans.

Hey, but as long as you're not reliant on the govt. Because that wouldn't be personally responsible.

[FatPitcher]

Is Obama's Health Care plan your main concern? If you already have insurance through your employer, nothing will change. Also, and what do you call HMO's?, which by the way, were the brainchild of one "brilliant" Republican...Richard Nixon. That isn't gov't involvement?

No it won't but it will cause my taxes to go up. If you think it won't God bless.

Independent studies show that under McCain, the middle class will pay 3 times more total taxes than with Obama. So if you are voting soley based on taxes, then you are on the wrong side.

Studies also show that since both McCain and Obama pledged to accept public financing in the general election, neither one will have a cash advantage.

That's the trouble with basing studies on campaign promises.

[FatPitcher]

The fact is that the free market system doesn't work for healthcare. Now before you jump off the socialized medicine cliff, that doesn't mean we need to have a government ran and paid for system.

It's a bit of a stretch to call U.S. health care a free-market system. It's a Frankenstein monster.

[RobVarak]

Now Barney Frank is looking for a race card large enough to cover his corrupt ass.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/ge ... ition=also

[greggsand]

The people touting "personal responsibility" are no more self-reliant than anyone else.

Really?

I tout personal responsibility daily, and I exercise regularly, try to watch what I eat, drink moderately, etc. So someone who is 70 pounds overweight, eats 400 percent of the U.S. RDA for fat and calories per day and considers cracking a beer as exercise takes as much personal responsibility for their health as me?

Interesting.

Take care,
PK

Simple then: Tax Calories...

[FatPitcher]

Now Barney Frank is looking for a race card large enough to cover his corrupt ass.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/ge ... ition=also

Large, but with a doggy door.

[FatPitcher]

The people touting "personal responsibility" are no more self-reliant than anyone else.

Really?

I tout personal responsibility daily, and I exercise regularly, try to watch what I eat, drink moderately, etc. So someone who is 70 pounds overweight, eats 400 percent of the U.S. RDA for fat and calories per day and considers cracking a beer as exercise takes as much personal responsibility for their health as me?

Interesting.

Take care,
PK

Simple then: Tax Calories...

That would be even more regressive than property taxes!

[Teal]

Now Barney Frank is looking for a race card large enough to cover his corrupt ass.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/ge ... ition=also

I can't stand that stupid tub.

[Teal]

These people have no shame...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10062008/ne ... 132395.htm

Next they'll be digging up dead people and taking them to the polls.

[RobVarak]

Right-wing blog smear merchants CNN on the Ayers-Obama relationship


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dvROBLortBQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>


Griffin should have mentioned that Ayers' contemporary views on the US are nearly as radical and extremist as the views he expressed violently in the 60's.


Other than that it's a shockingly non-partisan bit of reporting for CNN. They even allow Minion of Satan Stanley Kurtz to show his face outside the Fox media ghetto. I fully expect that Griffin will be relegated to shining Anderson Cooper's hair for the duration of his career as a result.

[Teal]

Eh, we all know that CNN is just a right wing republican house organ...

[Jackdog]

These people have no shame...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10062008/ne ... 132395.htm

Next they'll be digging up dead people and taking them to the polls.

Watch the first 4 segments.

http://www.palestra.net/videos/play/16625


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZKXPhPrd_As&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[Jackdog]

Double post..........sorry.

[RobVarak]

First CNN and now SNL. Will the heretics never cease?

NBC has successfully censored the distribution of the skit that skewered Pelosi, Frank and Soros, and also took a surprisingly inside shot at
Herbert & Marion Sandler.

Here is a transcript with screengrabs until I can come up with a link to the video anyway.

I'd rather not send the pageviews to Michelle Malkin, but she has the only full transcript that I can find LOL

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/07/th ... ut-satire/

[GameSeven]

First CNN and now SNL. Will the heretics never cease?

NBC has successfully censored the distribution of the skit that skewered Pelosi, Frank and Soros, and also took a surprisingly inside shot at
Herbert & Marion Sandler.

Here is a transcript with screengrabs until I can come up with a link to the video anyway.

I'd rather not send the pageviews to Michelle Malkin, but she has the only full transcript that I can find LOL

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/07/th ... ut-satire/

I DVR'd the episode this week but still haven't watched it past the opening skit (satire of the VP debate). I'll have to give it a look. Still, is NBC scraping *all* of their political satire over the past few weeks or just those that skewer the left?