OT: Finally...A Worthwhile MP3 Player (really long)

[pk500]

You can't access the Internet via the Zune while at the mall.

You can only send songs already sync'd on the Zune to people within wireless range.

My premise was based on the scenario that Kaz outlined, with the ability to sync your song library on your PC wirelessly with your Zune. Otherwise, wireless sending is a pretty meaningless feature, especially with DRM built in.

It's a similar idea to the Wii and to a lesser extent, the PSP. Will you really go to public places and hook up and play games against strangers or at best casual acquaintences?

No, probably not in a public place. But at least I could play Mario Kart DS or Clubhouse Games against the same people on my DS in a public place more than three times, with no DRM.

Take care,
PK

[Diablo25]

Call me crazy, but I just reserved a Zune. I had $130+ in credit at the local EB so I took the plunge. Basically I'm getting it for $115 (retails for $249.99). I will have it tomorrow. I have a Creative Zen Micro that has been good to me but its only 5 GB and has been giving me problems lately. Its nearly a year old. I almost grabbed a 30GB IPod over the summer but nearly all of my music is in WMA format which would be a major pain in the ass to convert. The Zune is compatible with MP3's and WMA (all my files) and it accepts many video files too. I'll be able to transfer all my recorded TV from my Windows Media Center PC to it and I can use it with the 360. MS will be upgrading its features also. Maybe I'll regret it but I like what I see. Impressions tomorrow.

[Diablo25]

BTW, I reserved the black one

[wco81]

You should have gotten the brown one.

You blew it.

[Diablo25]

You should have gotten the brown one.

You blew it.

The brown one did oddly arouse me They only had a black and a brown available. The black will look nice in my Nissan.

[bdunn13]

Is there an easy way to transfer files from windows media center to the ipod?

[wco81]

What kind of files and which model of the iPod?

If you're talking about TV shows recorded on the Media Center, you will need to transcode to whatever formats the iPod supports. There may be freeware that does that. Videodora or something like that.

Plus I thought Media Center recordings had some kind of DRM.

[Sport73]

Granted, I'm an Apple guy, but I also love my XBox 360 so I'm not so clouded that I can't appreciate devices from others.

As a pure music player, the Zune is nice and priced appropriately, though it could certainly use some help in the STYLE category (SH*T brown? Really?). If you don't already have an iPod, and/or lots of songs purchased from iTunes, it's worth a look.

What I can't get behind is Microsoft's decision to support only 'Marketplace' purchasing in their new music store. You cannot buy songs for $.99 as you can with Apple, you can buy Marketplace points, with which you can buy songs at roughly the equivalent of $.99. You can only buy in quantities as low as $5, which means if you only want 1 song you have to spot Microsoft an interest free loan of $4 or more. They also don't offer 'clean' breaks on point purchases, so you will always have a remaining balance of points unless you buy and use $400 worth of points at once.

I appreciate the need for Micro-transactions within the XBL interface, where you could literally be paying pennies for certain content, but the decision by Microsoft to try to build their own currency is both a little annoying and a little concerning. If you think DRM is restrictive, imagine a world where money isn't money unless it's MICROSOFT money.

[Dave]

Sport, you might know the exact details, but doesn't Apple lose money on single-song purchases on iTunes due to bandwidth and credit card fees cutting into their already-small margin on song purchases?

So it makes business sense to bundle purchases into points like they are. But as a consumer, I think it sucks.

Saw the Zune at Target yesterday, where it is featured on an endcap. Looks like a solid, but unspectacular player. MS is throwing some money at it, that's for sure. Look at Target's circular this week--it is on the front page along with the 360 while the PS3 is relegated to page 3.

[jondiehl]

Anyone know much about SanDisk Sansa players? I see that Best Buy is going to have the Sansa e250R model (2GB w/ color screen and tactile scroll wheel, lithium ion rechargable etc...) for only $99 next weekend.

I actually bought a Sansa m240 model (1GB) last week to try out the brand (with the intention of returning for a "Black Friday" deal) and it fits the bill. Basically, I only need an MP3 player (1 or 2GB) to plug into the AUX jack in my car. This m240 model is doing pretty well, but it doesn't have a color screen which makes it hard to see while driving during the daytime. I paid $69 but it's going to be $34.99 on BF.

The m240 model is more of an iPod killer with video and photo playback, etc... All of their models have FM tuners and the ability to voice record (and record FM too, I think), which would be cool). I'm just curious if anyone's used them long-term to see about their build quality. Syncing to WMP11 was a snap, I already have playlists on there for 1GB and 2GB flash drives (for my 360), so I just sinced my 1GB list to this 1GB flash MP3 player, took about 3 minutes and it was filled up.

[wco81]

Sansa is a distant second in market share but way ahead of the Creative and iRivers.

I don't know about the build quality or how well the software works. It's made by Sandisk, which can get volume pricing on flash RAM so they probably control costs better than anyone, maybe even Apple despite the iPod economies of scale.

Sansa carries higher profit margins for the stores so the Best Buys tend to promote it more heavily. You always see rebates and instant price reductions almost every week.

Whether they're getting repeat business from satisfied customers is unknown but they are getting good volume because of their pricing.

Sansa is probably more of an immediate target for Zune than iPod, even though they obviously don't have flash players in the same price range yet.

So it's understandable that Zune isn't supporting PlaysForSure content or stores, since MS wants to compete against the smaller share players too.

[Brando70]

The real problem is that someone will need to create something to rival the iTunes store. I've tried some of the other places (MusicMatch, MSN), and they just don't have the selection of Apple. I'm amazed at how much stuff iTunes carries.

I am shopping around for a player this Christmas -- I'm using a 4G mini that I got for free, but the battery is dying and I want something I can get all or at least most of my collection on (I have about 60G of music on my PC). The 80G iPod looks pretty attractive, but I'm going to look at some of the other players out there. I still burn my CDs in MP3, but I have started buying more individual songs from iTunes, and I don't like having to burn those to CD and then reimport them as mp3s to make them compatible.

[jondiehl]

I don't know about the build quality or how well the software works.

I wasn't even aware that it had software. I literally just took it out of the package, put an Energizer AAA rechargable in it, plugged it into my USB2 jack and it was synced in a matter of minutes. For $35 (Black Friday special on the model I'm trying out), it's pretty simple and easy to use. Nothing fancy, no files to convert (I dumped MP3's and WMA's on there and they co-exist in my playlists just fine). From reading responses with other MP3 players and proprietary software, I guess that's a big deal? I've always just used Windows Media Player for everything... ripping, burning, playback, playlists, etc.... so with any of these MP3 players, I'll likely want to just plug and play straight into that (which rules out the iPod, no?).

I'm only looking at flash based players, I figure that there's less to break and it will probably last much longer. Plus, I don't need much more than 1-2GB of storage. I listen to music while I'm in the car for 30min to work, and 30min back home. 1-2GB is enough to not hear a repeat for week's, or until I need to swap the AAA rechargable with another (I'm on 10 days of 1hr/day use and it hasn't made a dent in the battery yet). I still have an old Rio MP3 player that works from like 7yrs ago, when 64Mb of storage was a big deal.

Sitting here at work this morning, I've been reading reviews on these Sansa players and while the cheapy one I got does it's job, that "e series" line seems to be more like the iPod nano (aluminum case, scroll wheel, nice color screen, etc) and gets alot of good reviews due to it's lower cost and added features. If I can't get my current cheapo Sansa for $35 on Black Friday, I'll probably return it to Walmart, get my $70 back, and pickup the e250r for only $30 more (and get twice the storage, color screen, lith-ion battery, etc).

[wco81]

If you have a player, why burn CDs?

I've not played one CD in a long time. Just plug the player into the aux. jack of the car stereo I have.

[jondiehl]

If you have a player, why burn CDs?

I've not played one CD in a long time. Just plug the player into the aux. jack of the car stereo I have.

I do the same (aux jack in the car), but I still burn MP3 CDR's on occasion (which the in-dash will playback and give me steering wheel control), but only with material that I don't need a playlist for and that I don't want to add/remove content (books on tape, motivational stuff, seminars, work related things, etc).

[wco81]

I'm not sure if Sansa has its own software. Just assumed it must to manage a subset of your library with playlists.

It's suppose to do photos and video too so that might mean just drag and drop or some other syncing software.

Yeah flash players should be more durable not to mention lighter. So you don't have to worry as much about dropping them. No HD mechanism to worry about and light so the impact wouldn't be as great.

But flash RAM does have a limited number of write cycles so they won't last forever. Especially if they have non-replaceable lithium ion batteries.

That said, I got an 8GB Nano which I manage with smart playlists. So most of it is taken up with Howard Stern shows, which are like 320 MB each and I have about 3 weeks of those, podcasts and some music.

I could drag and drop and just copy over stuff that I expect to listen to within iTunes (which I realize a lot of people don't want to install) but if you set up the playlist correctly, you can load exactly the right amount to fill the player without doing a lot of work of picking out which files to drag and drop.

Also have a 30GB iPod which I'm using less and less of these days. But one day, while burning DVDs and running low on hard disk space, I accidentally deleted my iTunes library. So I was able to get it back from the iPod. There is definitely something to be said for having a hard disk player big enough to store everything or most of your library.

[Diablo25]

Plus I thought Media Center recordings had some kind of DRM.

I have had no trouble converting Windows Media Center TV recordings. If its something like HBO it can't be converted but anything else I have recorded converts with no problems.

[Kazuya]

If you have a player, why burn CDs?

I've not played one CD in a long time. Just plug the player into the aux. jack of the car stereo I have.

I still play MP3-CDs mainly because I can operate the stereo using the controls on the steering wheel. MP3-CDs offer a pretty reasonable amount of storage as well. As critical as I am of DVD watching, cell phone talking soccer moms, I feel like a tool fiddling around with an iPod while driving around. The only iPod setup I've seen that looks even remotely workable is the flexible arm that plugs into the steering wheel, but even that I doubt would work for me.

[wco81]

Smart playlists and shuffle mode, look into it.

I plug it into the aux jack and just let it play. Rarely need to change tracks.

I can control the volume from the steering wheel.

If I really wanted to fiddle a lot with it, I could buy one of the CD-changer interface kits, which will let you control the tracks as well as display track info. But that's like $400-500 installed.

Not worth it.

Problem with MP3 CDs is that you can't keep track of what's on what. If you already have a player, you can load way more on it than you can on a CD, unless you got an old, 256 MB one.

[dbdynsty25]

If I really wanted to fiddle a lot with it, I could buy one of the CD-changer interface kits, which will let you control the tracks as well as display track info. But that's like $400-500 installed.

Whoa...slow down. It depends on the model of the car. I've got an aftermarket Kenwood deck in my Mustang...35 bucks on ebay, I've got the ipod interface kit that allows me to control everything from my deck and keep my ipod neatly tucked away in my center console, out of sight and charging at the same time.

Even the aftermarket connetions for the brand new Lexus IS 350 Nav system, which my buddy just bought, are only about 100-150 bucks...and will display everything on the nav and control from there as well.

[Kazuya]

If I really wanted to fiddle a lot with it, I could buy one of the CD-changer interface kits, which will let you control the tracks as well as display track info. But that's like $400-500 installed.

Whoa...slow down. It depends on the model of the car. I've got an aftermarket Kenwood deck in my Mustang...35 bucks on ebay, I've got the ipod interface kit that allows me to control everything from my deck and keep my ipod neatly tucked away in my center console, out of sight and charging at the same time.

Even the aftermarket connetions for the brand new Lexus IS 350 Nav system, which my buddy just bought, are only about 100-150 bucks...and will display everything on the nav and control from there as well.

Thanks to both of you, I had no idea they made "interface kits" more elaborate than what you see at Target. db, is the one you have FM transmitter based? I'm not wild about the sound quality, but since 90% of what I want to do is listen to podcasts during the commute, it should be fine. And oh yeah, link me if you don't mind.

[dbdynsty25]

Thanks to both of you, I had no idea they made "interface kits" more elaborate than what you see at Target. db, is the one you have FM transmitter based? I'm not wild about the sound quality, but since 90% of what I want to do is listen to podcasts during the commute, it should be fine. And oh yeah, link me if you don't mind.

No, it's not at all FM based. Those are garbage for the most part. Sh*tty sound quality...and in my case, not many channels to use because the FM band in Los Angeles is pretty damn full already, so you get a lot of interference.

Mine is a hardwire connection to the back of my head unit. It uses the dock connector on the bottom for everything (to charge and for the line out connection). Obviously, if you don't have a kenwood deck, this wont' work for you because it uses the CD Changer connection on the back of the deck to work correctly...but being able to use all of my stereo controls, instead of looking at the ipod makes it worth it 10 times over.

Most, if not all, car stereo makers have cd controls on the back of their decks these days, which means there is probably a product by that particular manufacturer to control the ipod from the deck itself. Here is the kenwood version I've got:

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/products/List ... 58&pr=2549

All you do is plug it in to the back of the deck and find a place to hide all of the wires. Took a whole 10 min. to install.

[wco81]

db has an iPod again?

The ones using the dock connector are using the CD-changer interface. So I know Alpine (and Kenwood is made by the same company Alps, I believe) has some head units and then a fairly cheap adaptor which lets you control the iPod from the Alpine head unit.

There are also kits like Denison ICE and then a Harmon Kardon kit which has its own display.

What I was referring to are the kits made by manufacturers like BMW and Honda which let you interface the iPod to the factory stereo and then control the iPod from the steering wheel controls.

The dealers who sell and install those are all over the map, charging $250-400 just for the kit and then another couple of hundred to install.
Of course car dealers are going to try to get as much as they can.

Aftermarket manufacturers are going to have set prices.

Really what they should do is either install the dock connector directly on the dash or at least install a USB 2.0 port. But it would still cost them a lot to make the interface control the various players. They would have to map certain buttons and knobs to certain actions on iPods versus Zunes, versus Sansas, etc.

[dbdynsty25]

The dealers who sell and install those are all over the map, charging $250-400 just for the kit and then another couple of hundred to install. Of course car dealers are going to try to get as much as they can.

I still don't understand where you're getting your numbers from. My girl bought a new Civic back in January. She didn't think she'd want the ipod connector at the time...so this summer I bought it for her. $215 installed and everything works on the nav system.

Clearly not 4 or 5 hundred bucks.

[dbdynsty25]

And yes, I have an Ipod again. That's what happens when you get stuff for your birthday. To tell you the truth...I'm actually quite impressed with it after finding a decent set of headphones for it. You really have to mess around with different brands/models before you can find a set that really works well with it. My Shure E2s were absolute garbage with it, whereas they were pretty good with the rest of the players I used. I ended up going with some Sennheiser CX300s, which are pretty highly regarded in the <$100 segment. I'm very happy with them and it makes the Ipod sound a hellova lot better than I previously thought. Plus, I've got over 200GB of music, so I needed the 80gb of space, so it all works out.

Getting the ipod interface kit makes it a lot nicer as well. The other brands don't have kits like that, so just the convenience alone is a big plus. Just stick it in my center console...turn the car on and go. 80gb of music available at my fingertips. For all of 35 bucks.