OT: Super Bowl Predictions

[Brando70]

People crying conspiracy, please take off the tinfoil hats. The game wasn't fixed. I agree with Hip that the two biggest calls against Seattle -- the offensive PI and the holding call on the Stevens catch -- were ticky-tack, but Jackson did put his arm out and Seattle's tackle had his hands around the back of the Steeler DE. I don't think flags should have been thrown, but it's not like the refs invented a foul. The Hasselback penalty was the only call I would label inexplicable, and by then it was pretty much over.

On the Roethlisberger TD, he was in. Watch the replay, you'll see a sliver of brown football cross the white line. It's about as close as I've ever seen but it wasn't a Testaverde TD phantom. Jackson was also clearly out on that one reception, it wasn't even close.

The officiating, while bad, didn't cost the Seahawks the game. Letting Willie Parker, Randel El, and Hines Ward make big plays did. I'm still not sure how the Seattle secondary let Ward catch that floater from Roethlisberger. That looked like a pass from Jack Trudeau in the original Tecmo Bowl.

Congrats to the Steelers for a good run. They played the best football for the last two months. As for the NFL, I agree that they need to seriously review the officiating this year. Maybe the game is getting too fast or expansion has thinned the number of good officials, but there have just been too many bad calls this season.

[Leebo33]

Good post, Brando.

It's amazing when you start thinking about all the mistakes the Seahawks made and there's no way a team wins a Super Bowl with so many:

- at least 6 dropped passes
- 3 sacks given
- Giving up the longest run in Super Bowl history and getting caught on the trick play
- absolutely horrible clock management
- one interception and Pittsburgh dropped another easy one
- very poor (5/17?) 3rd down conversion rate
- 2 missed FG (albeit long attempts)
- all those punt touchbacks
- at least 5 or 6 legit penalties even if you question one or two

[XXXIV]

BTW, How pathetic is Joe Montana? I can't believe he didn't show up to that awesome pregame ceremony because the NFL wouldn't give him a $100,000 appearance fee. That's sad.

That explains it. During that presentation we were asking each other why Montana wasn't there.

WOW...if true...he is a jag

[XXXIV]

People crying conspiracy, please take off the tinfoil hats. The game wasn't fixed. I agree with Hip that the two biggest calls against Seattle -- the offensive PI and the holding call on the Stevens catch -- were ticky-tack, but Jackson did put his arm out and Seattle's tackle had his hands around the back of the Steeler DE. I don't think flags should have been thrown, but it's not like the refs invented a foul. The Hasselback penalty was the only call I would label inexplicable, and by then it was pretty much over.

I have to agree.

I will now take My hat off.

[Brando70]

People crying conspiracy, please take off the tinfoil hats. The game wasn't fixed. I agree with Hip that the two biggest calls against Seattle -- the offensive PI and the holding call on the Stevens catch -- were ticky-tack, but Jackson did put his arm out and Seattle's tackle had his hands around the back of the Steeler DE. I don't think flags should have been thrown, but it's not like the refs invented a foul. The Hasselback penalty was the only call I would label inexplicable, and by then it was pretty much over.

I have to agree.

I will now take My hat off.

XXXIV, that wasn't directed at you, and I think people complaining about the poor officiating are correct -- the game was called poorly, as were many other games this year. The offensive PI call in particular was not the kind of call refs should be making unless they make it every time it occurs.

It's just when people start saying a professional sport is fixing games, they don't consider what they're saying -- how wide such a conspiracy would have to be, the fact that you'd have to ensure the silence of those involved, etc. It starts getting into O.J. territory

[XXXIV]

XXXIV, that wasn't directed at you

I know but some of the stuff I wrote in this thread does cross into Oliver Stone land.

The reffing has been crappy all season. In spite of what the whole world sees ....All season the head of officials, Mike Perrera, has been saying its been fine. The week after the divisional playoffs(the worst weekend Ive ever seen by any officials anywhere, he siad it was very good.

NFL buries head in sand. It will only get worse.

[jLp vAkEr0]

While I don't think the game was fixed, it's normal to start suspecting when at least 2 HUGE plays(TD catch and catch to the 2yd line) for the Seahawks where negated by AWFUL penalty calls. Just awful calls. VERY ticky-tack. Neither should have been call.

[wco81]

I don't know about fixing games but if you look at the Offensive PI call, the ref looked like he was going to signal TD and then pulled out the flag.

But the worst part is he waited to see if Jackson caught the ball rather than pull the flag when the supposed infraction occurred, which was well before the catch.

The Steelers DB complained and then the ref threw the flag. BTW, the Steelers were complaining about pushoffs on other plays, including the Jackson catch in the corner where he may have kicked the pylon.

Don't know when they threw the flag for holding. You would think it was before the QB released the ball, because that was when that infraction would have occurred.

If it wasn't for that int. by Rothlisberger which changed the score from 21-3 or at least 17-3 to 14-10, these calls wouldn't be so prominent in the minds of many.

[Leebo33]

VERY ticky-tack. Neither should have been call.

There would be just as much outcry going the other way if they *didn't* call the Jackson push off. It was a no win situation for the refs.

BTW, what was up with the section of empty seats?

[Spooky]

I think those bad calls had a huge affect on the game and while you can say that Seattle didn’t play all that well, most of the things that they did not execute well would never have had to occur if they did not have the bad calls they did. Better two minute clock management would never have been needed, ect… I definitely do not think the game was fixed in anyway, but it sure looked like it was. Seattle just could not catch a break.

The Rothlesberger touchdown could have easily gone either way and either review would have been inconclusive, that’s how close it was. It just so happens that the ref decided to call it a touchdown (with much hesitation of course) rather than not. Same with the PI call against Jackson. The ref hesitated and then decided to call it at the last second.

I guess my biggest point is that the things that Seattle did wrong would never have needed to happen if those calls went Seattle’s way. They were all close calls, very close, but Seattle just kept ending up on the short end every time. There were no bad calls against Pittsburgh. That really presents a huge disadvantage for the team getting shafted and is a lot to overcome. It has got to take a lot of wind out of the teams sails every time a bad call occurs or a really nit-picky one goes against you on HUGE plays, especially in the freakin’ Superbowl!

Take those calls away or turn the tables and present Pittsburgh with the same dis-advantage and I bet we would have seen the same type of reaction and bad playing from them (maybe excluding the dropped passes).

[Leebo33]

The Rothlesberger touchdown could have easily gone either way and either review would have been inconclusive, that’s how close it was. It just so happens that the ref decided to call it a touchdown (with much hesitation of course) rather than not. Same with the PI call against Jackson. The ref hesitated and then decided to call it at the last second.

Do you guys watch regular season games? There is ref hesitation multiple times in every game. Why should the Super Bowl be any different? The game is played at such breakneck speed it takes a second for the brain to process the information. I'd rather have them think about it for a second and make what they think is the correct call.

As Wco pointed out, if Ben doesn't hand the Seahawks a 10-14 point swing with one horrible pass then the refs are an afterthought.

And I really cannot comprehend how better clock management, better special teams, better third down exectution, etc. is not needed in the Super Bowl regardless of the one or two calls that go against you. No matter how you look at it the Hawks gave up 21 legit points and were damn lucky not to give up 24-28. Give Seattle 4 points on the Jackson TD instead of FG and 3-7 points on the questionalble PI call and it's still a game and that poor clock management at the end of the first half is still just as big.

[DivotMaker]

As Wco pointed out, if Ben doesn't hand the Seahawks a 10-14 point swing with one horrible pass then the refs are an afterthought.

And if the ref doesn't call the bogus PI call, same can be said. We can go round and round on this. I have no vested interest in either team, but I came away from last night's game thinking the NFL wanted Bettis to finish with a ring in his hometown. I realize such a scenario could never be proven, but this SB left a very biased taste in my mouth.

And I really cannot comprehend how better clock management, better special teams, better third down exectution, etc. is not needed in the Super Bowl regardless of the one or two calls that go against you. No matter how you look at it the Hawks gave up 21 legit points and were damn lucky not to give up 24-28. Give Seattle 4 points on the Jackson TD instead of FG and 3-7 points on the questionalble PI call and it's still a game and that poor clock management at the end of the first half is still just as big.

We can sit here and piecemeal plays, penalties, clock management, etc. What we can't really do is speculate on what MIGHT have happened because you have to take the game in it entire context in order to attempt to try to predict such outcomes. IOW, you would have to replay the game from the Off PI penalty forward to see how that one event changes the strategies of both teams. Monday morning quarterbacking is interesting, but usually it can never approach the kind of all-inclusive context needed to really determine alternative outcomes....

[Leebo33]

I realize such a scenario could never be proven, but this SB left a very biased taste in my mouth.

And Miami got screwed in the NCAA championship, Jordan pushed off against Utah, NE mugged receivers on the way to 2 championships, etc.

Do you really believe that the referees were instructed to make calls for Pittsburgh? I just think the NFL referees suck and have been saying so for ages. It's not bias though.

[Kazuya]

BTW, How pathetic is Joe Montana? I can't believe he didn't show up to that awesome pregame ceremony because the NFL wouldn't give him a $100,000 appearance fee. That's sad.

That explains it. During that presentation we were asking each other why Montana wasn't there.

WOW...if true...he is a jag

I was surprised to see that Bradshaw was also absent for money reasons. Him and Super Joe make 5 MVP's MIA. The other missing guy was on vacation.

[Leebo33]

And if the ref doesn't call the bogus PI call, same can be said.

Actually it can't be because there was a push off and the ref. made a judgment call you didn't agree with. The Hasselbeck call was bogus. The PI was judgment.

[DivotMaker]

I realize such a scenario could never be proven, but this SB left a very biased taste in my mouth.

Do you really believe that the referees were instructed to make calls for Pittsburgh? I just think the NFL referees suck and have been saying so for ages. It's not bias though.

Did I say that? No. What I am saying is that I saw a game that appeared to favor one team over another with both the officiating and the fan turnout. Nothing can be argued about fan turnout, but I just feel that Pittsburgh received the benefit of the doubt and Seattle did not.

[Leebo33]

Did I say that? No. What I am saying is that I saw a game that appeared to favor one team over another with both the officiating and the fan turnout.

LOL. This is the first time I've heard someone complain about the fan turnout. Maybe the NFL should do what some teams did and block folks from the 412 from purchasing tickets.

[RobVarak]

There is no definitive way to say that a better officiated game would have had a different result. But this is the very problem with a game that is SO poorly officiated. This game will historically be remembered as one of the worst officated of all time.

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories, but just because incompetence falls short of corruption doesn't make it any less forgiveable.

[Brando70]

The offensive holding call that negated the Stevens catch inside the five wasn't horrible. Watching the replay, I could see how a ref would make that call -- Seattle's right tackle had his arms wrapped around the side of the defensive end. It was a soft call, but you'll see that sort of thing get flagged at various points during the season.

The Jackson offensive pass interference call was the really weak one, IMO, but it did happen right in front of the ref and could definitely be interpreted as a violation of the rules. Put your arm out against the chest of a DB and you may get flagged.

Those are the two calls that hurt Seattle the most, and I'll bet if you reviewed every game from the season, you'd see those calls being made on a number of occasions. Doesn't make them the right call to make, but I didn't see anything in the officiating yesterday that we haven't seen all year. At least the NFL is consistent

It was a defensive game, and the difference was that the Seattle D suffered three key breakdowns that led to 21 Steeler points. The Steeler D, while not really dominating, only let Seattle nibble and didn't give up those kind of back-breaking plays.

I really think part of the problem is that the NFL rules have gotten too damn complicated. The officials have to process so much (eg horsecollars, when you can go for the ball, etc.), that they have an almost impossible task to call games consistently. It would be in the league's best interest to just let guys play and limit flags to more obvious penalties.

[Leebo33]

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories, but just because incompetence falls short of corruption doesn't make it any less forgiveable.

I agree. It really is a shame more people are focusing on the officiating than the Steelers incredible playoff run. They beat the top 3 AFC seeds on the road and then the NFC number 1. They held the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 7th best offenses in the NFL to 62 total points in 4 games! That's what we should be talking about instead of the stupid refs. It's not like the refs didn't almost cost the Steelers a shot at the Super Bowl in the first place.

[DivotMaker]

Actually it can't be because there was a push off and the ref. made a judgment call you didn't agree with. The Hasselbeck call was bogus. The PI was judgment.

Piss poor judgement by the ref then because the Steelers DB would not have had a chance to make the play regardless and the "push" was minimal.

[DivotMaker]

Did I say that? No. What I am saying is that I saw a game that appeared to favor one team over another with both the officiating and the fan turnout.

LOL. This is the first time I've heard someone complain about the fan turnout. Maybe the NFL should do what some teams did and block folks from the 412 from purchasing tickets.

Am I complaining? I just made an observation. No need to get so defensive. I am glad for you that the Steelers won, but I am just stating my gut reactions and feelings about the game. nothing more, nothing less.

[DivotMaker]

I agree. It really is a shame more people are focusing on the officiating than the Steelers incredible playoff run.

People are focusing on it because it was obviously apparent to MANY viewers. I think everyone gives Pittsburgh credit for their amazing run. However, had the SB been officiated in a way that appeared to be more neutral, then this discussion would be about 4 pages shorter.

[matthewk]

Let's please seperate plays that "could have" gone another way from bad calls. Every single play in the game could have had a different outcome. The reason so many people are outraged is that plays were changed by the officials. Take every play exactly as it happened last night, correct the calls, and you are left with Seatle having a good chance of winning that game.

Also, for those saying Seattle made too many mistakes and played poorly so they deserved to lose: Had those few plays been called correctly we'd be saying that Pit played sloppy and didn't deserve to win. For every bad punt and poor clock management there was 9-21 passing and more turnovers.

Enough credit has already been given to PIT. They got all the credit for the past 2 weeks leading up to the game. No one talked about Seattle making it despite lsing their star FA signing in Jamie Sharper, or losing Hamlin early in the season. They also went 13-3 without Jackson for 9 games and Engram for 3.

[pk500]

Enough credit has already been given to PIT. They got all the credit for the past 2 weeks leading up to the game. No one talked about Seattle making it despite lsing their star FA signing in Jamie Sharper, or losing Hamlin early in the season. They also went 13-3 without Jackson for 9 games and Engram for 3.

Take it from someone who endured four consecutive Super Bowl losses: You can console yourself any way you want, but all of that regular-season sh*t means nothing when you lose the big one.

Every once in a while I step back and appreciate the incredible feat of the Bills reaching four consecutive Super Bowls. But "Wide Right" and losing the lead to Dallas after halftime in the Bills' fourth Super Bowl still rattle off the inside of my brain a lot more than a sense of accomplishment for the team during those glory years.

In other words, yes, losing those games still sucks.

Take care,
PK