OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:59 pm

FatPitcher wrote:
JackDog wrote:
Too bad she sucks at running a state.
I don't envy anyone who has that job, with the way MI's largest city is run.

She should have canned that idiot months ago.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:16 am

Stupid f*cking heartless idiots.

Former DNC Chairman Don Fowler laughs at New Orleans while talking to Congressman John Spratt of SC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78
Cleaned up audio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86km6gPW ... re=related

Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJv9to8K ... re=related

These two sick f*cks have gone so far in their hatred for GWB and the Republicans that they appear to be rejoicing in any and all disasters that take place in our nation or around the world. The death of any soldier in Iraq, or the destruction of any home in New Orleans is no longer a tragedy to Olbermann, rather it is more material for his show and his hatred of the President. How sad when people like this actually take pleasure in the death and destruction of others. Olbermann should have ripped the fat off of Moore's ass for that comment instead of kissing it.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:12 am

When you spend a lifetime justifying anti-Amerianism by couching it in insincere rhetoric about dissent being the most patriotic form of speech eventually the facade is going to fall apart. They are not alone in this club by any means.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:31 am

Right, and it wasn't anti-American or heartless when some evangelist was calling for everyone to pray for a big storm in Denver last week or comparing Obama's acceptance speech to Nuremburg.

Only the GOP lays claim to patriotism and criticizing a GOP administration equates to disloyalty or worse.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:43 am

wco81 wrote:Right, and it wasn't anti-American or heartless when some evangelist was calling for everyone to pray for a big storm in Denver last week or comparing Obama's acceptance speech to Nuremburg.

Only the GOP lays claim to patriotism and criticizing a GOP administration equates to disloyalty or worse.

Bullshit man. Were talking lives here. Not some stupid joke from an evangelist. Don Fowler is a politician. I could give a f*ckless what party he's in. It's heartless and ignorant. It's people like you that make me sick. If it was Fowler(R) you would be on his ass. But since he's a Dem it's all good. Anyone that laughs at a hurricane hitting the gulf region again is a complete idiot. And anyone that gives them a pass because of the politics they practice is a bigger idiot.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:13 am

JackDog wrote:It's people like you that make me sick. If it was Fowler(R) you would be on his ass. But since he's a Dem it's all good. Anyone that laughs at a hurricane hitting the gulf region again is a complete idiot. And anyone that gives them a pass because of the politics they practice is a bigger idiot.

I didn't give anyone a pass nor say anywhere that "it's all good."

That's a f***in lie.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:31 am

wco81 wrote:Right, and it wasn't anti-American or heartless when some evangelist was calling for everyone to pray for a big storm in Denver last week or comparing Obama's acceptance speech to Nuremburg.

Only the GOP lays claim to patriotism and criticizing a GOP administration equates to disloyalty or worse.

If I had seen that story I would've condemned him just as I have regularly condemned Robertson's more ridiculous rantings.

And suggesting that "only the GOP lays claim to patriotism" ignores not just the historical reality but the entire last 1/3 of BO's acceptance speech.

The fact is that some on the Left embrace the concept of "patriotic dissent" as a means of legitimizing their anti-American sentiment. You see the same tactic from some on the far, far Right among people who claim that joining militias or bombing abortion clinics is a means of "saving the country from itself" etc. The principal difference is that we culturally marginalize those right wingers (as we should) while embracing many of those on the Left, particularly because many of those on the Left are artists or entertainers.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:49 am

So you're saying Obama and all of the main Democratic Party politicians are basically anti-American?

They want to see the US fail?

And anyone who's not conservative (whatever the "Left" means) also sees things this way?

Time for treason prosecutions and blacklists then?

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:55 am

wco81 wrote:So you're saying Obama and all of the main Democratic Party politicians are basically anti-American?

They want to see the US fail?

And anyone who's not conservative (whatever the "Left" means) also sees things this way?

Time for treason prosecutions and blacklists then?

Oh my god...

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:02 pm

wco81 wrote:So you're saying Obama and all of the main Democratic Party politicians are basically anti-American?

They want to see the US fail?

And anyone who's not conservative (whatever the "Left" means) also sees things this way?

Time for treason prosecutions and blacklists then?

I didn't suggest anything of the sort. My BO reference was in response to your inane claim that "only the GOP lays claim to patriotism." He spent a significant portion of his speech laying claim to being more patriotic than the GOP.

I would think that the phrase "some on the Left" would've been a giveaway that I wasn't speaking about BO or the "main Democratic party." I wasn't saying that any dissent is anti-American. What I said, and I think it really was pretty damn clear, was that some who dissent are in fact anti-American.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:07 pm

RobVarak wrote:he fact is that some on the Left embrace the concept of "patriotic dissent" as a means of legitimizing their anti-American sentiment. You see the same tactic from some on the far, far Right among people who claim that joining militias or bombing abortion clinics is a means of "saving the country from itself" etc. The principal difference is that we culturally marginalize those right wingers (as we should) while embracing many of those on the Left, particularly because many of those on the Left are artists or entertainers.

Huh what media outlet are you watching?

Celebrities are not widely embraced for their views. Maybe the left is more accepting of them. But I would say they are to the left as to what religious leaders are the right.

This thread has worsened into blatant partisan blindness. I don't agree with McCain and I'm not voting for him but I'm not filled with so much rage that I can't analyze his positions with an open-mind or at least one that isn't filled with hatred of the right-wing. Most here just bash the otherside because they aren't of their party. If there's a reason why discourse is worse then ever, some of the Obama bashers are just doing so because he's a Democrat not because of his policy or position. And it's the same with McCain and the other here.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:10 pm

wco81 wrote:
I didn't give anyone a pass nor say anywhere that "it's all good."

That's a f***in lie.

Your right. My bad. You made a bullshit comparison to a non life threating joke by some idiotic evangelist. Yet you don't condemn Fowler or Moore.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:12 pm

RobVarak wrote: I didn't suggest anything of the sort. My BO reference was in response to your inane claim that "only the GOP lays claim to patriotism." He spent a significant portion of his speech laying claim to being more patriotic than the GOP.

I would think that the phrase "some on the Left" would've been a giveaway that I wasn't speaking about BO or the "main Democratic party." I wasn't saying that any dissent is anti-American. What I said, and I think it really was pretty damn clear, was that some who dissent are in fact anti-American.

Obama was responding to challenges on his patriotism.

You know starting with the whole flap about Michelle Obama not being proud enough of her country.

Because it was the right wing pronouncing who was patriotic and who wasn't, who wasn't patriotic enough, who wasn't pledging allegiance to the flag or wearing flag pins or visiting flag factories enough.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:23 pm

JackDog wrote: Your right. My bad. You made a bullshit comparison to a non life threating joke by some idiotic evangelist. Yet you don't condemn Fowler or Moore.

I didn't even click your links because I've seen it all over the web, obviously another orchestrated outrage campaign.

So excuse me if I didn't want to jump on the amen brigade as soon as prompted.

Now I've seen it. Fowler is coming off like an idiot but he's referring to the timing of the hurricane making landfall at the same time the RNC convention is starting.

Nowhere is he saying it's great there's a hurricane and that it's hitting the Gulf Coast.

On the Oberman-Moore video, which was obviously edited by whoever put it up on Youtube, Moore again is talking about the timing. Even in that video, Oberman refers to O'Reilly saying Katrina should have hit the UN.

The video cuts off after Moore talks about the timing and how God must be on the side of the Democrats (that itself is idiotic, the notion that God is on side of one party or another, one team or another, one country or another).

So if Moore said it's great that the hurricane is going to kill people and damage property, produce the evidence.

There's plenty of condemnation for Fowler and Moore from the expected quarters.

I will condemn them if they're celebrating the loss of life and destruction but at best, the videos you linked is inconclusive.

EDIT: Oh and by not failing to condemn them, I'm not condoning their comments or saying "it's all good."

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:24 pm

JRod wrote:
RobVarak wrote:he fact is that some on the Left embrace the concept of "patriotic dissent" as a means of legitimizing their anti-American sentiment. You see the same tactic from some on the far, far Right among people who claim that joining militias or bombing abortion clinics is a means of "saving the country from itself" etc. The principal difference is that we culturally marginalize those right wingers (as we should) while embracing many of those on the Left, particularly because many of those on the Left are artists or entertainers.
Huh what media outlet are you watching?

What I'm saying is that if a random militia member goes on TV and says "I'm joining the Sons of the Minutemen Militia because I think it's our duty to take up arms agains the Feds for Waco" etc., that person is culturally marginalized. Everybody looks at him like a nut. But a stooge like Michael Moore can make a career out of making anti-American propoganda and be looked on as a serious thinker.

Incidentally, I think that aside from a few people this thread remains a pretty civil and interesting place. It degenerates here and there, but compared to most poltical threads it's quite nice.

Post by **Jared** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:43 pm

As for the Moore clip, the Youtube links cut out what Moore said a handful of seconds later, where he said "I certainly hope nobody gets hurt, and I hope everybody's taking cover", and then talks about what McCain and Bush were doing when Katrina made landfall. It was a very stupid joke by Moore and Fowler, but it's clear that neither of these people are taking pleasure in the death and destruction of others. I'm not a fan of polarizing people on either side of the aisle for positions that they don't actually have...let's not do that here.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:46 pm

wco81 wrote:
Now I've seen it. Fowler is coming off like an idiot but he's referring to the timing of the hurricane making landfall at the same time the RNC convention is starting.

Nowhere is he saying it's great there's a hurricane and that it's hitting the Gulf Coast.

A politician having a chuckle about a storm that's going to cost many people their homes and the country millions is acceptable. Gotcha! That's all good!

wco81 wrote: On the Oberman-Moore video, which was obviously edited by whoever put it up on Youtube, Moore again is talking about the timing. Even in that video, Oberman refers to O'Reilly saying Katrina should have hit the UN.

The video cuts off after Moore talks about the timing and how God must be on the side of the Democrats (that itself is idiotic, the notion that God is on side of one party or another, one team or another, one country or another).

So if Moore said it's great that the hurricane is going to kill people and damage property, produce the evidence.

I watched the 7 min version. It is what it is. Olberman rips O'Reilly yet sucks on Moore's nutsack for an idiotic comment. Gotcha!! It's all good!

wco81 wrote:I will condemn them if they're celebrating the loss of life and destruction but at best, the videos you linked is inconclusive.

EDIT: Oh and by not failing to condemn them, I'm not condoning their comments or saying "it's all good."

Sure you will.

It is all good!!!

Post by **Jared** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:47 pm

Also, a post with my moderator hat on. If you post the comments from another website, please also put that in the quotes, so we know that the comments are from that website, and not your own.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:54 pm

RobVarak wrote: Incidentally, I think that aside from a few people this thread remains a pretty civil and interesting place. It degenerates here and there, but compared to most poltical threads it's quite nice.

I never said it wasn't civil.

I don't want to name names but on both sides, they are just here to bash the otherside any chance they get. That would be okay if it was even bashing their own party (Dem or Rep).

Like I said, you wouldn't hear from a few that would have anything good to say about Obama or McCain just people of their party affiliation. It's civil but it's civil pettyness.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:55 pm

Jared wrote:As for the Moore clip, the Youtube links cut out what Moore said a handful of seconds later, where he said "I certainly hope nobody gets hurt, and I hope everybody's taking cover", and then talks about what McCain and Bush were doing when Katrina made landfall. It was a very stupid joke by Moore and Fowler, but it's clear that neither of these people are taking pleasure in the death and destruction of others. I'm not a fan of polarizing people on either side of the aisle for positions that they don't actually have...let's not do that here.

People laughing and joking about a storm and I'm polarizing? Did they forget about Katrina Jared? Is that a laughing matter for someone that cares? I don't buy it. Everbody learned from Katrina except these two idiots. That's my opinion. I'll leave it at that.

The way Bobby Jindal and Ray Nagin handled this storm was tremendous. The Governors of Texas and Mississippi did a great job as well.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:55 pm

Jared wrote:As for the Moore clip, the Youtube links cut out what Moore said a handful of seconds later, where he said "I certainly hope nobody gets hurt, and I hope everybody's taking cover", and then talks about what McCain and Bush were doing when Katrina made landfall. It was a very stupid joke by Moore and Fowler, but it's clear that neither of these people are taking pleasure in the death and destruction of others. I'm not a fan of polarizing people on either side of the aisle for positions that they don't actually have...let's not do that here.

People laughing and joking about a storm and I'm polarizing? Did they forget about Katrina Jared? Is that a laughing matter for someone that cares? I don't buy it. Everbody learned from Katrina except these two idiots. That's my opinion. I'll leave it at that.

The way Bobby Jindal and Ray Nagin handled this storm was tremendous. The Governors of Texas and Mississippi did a great job as well.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm

JackDog wrote:
wco81 wrote:
Now I've seen it. Fowler is coming off like an idiot but he's referring to the timing of the hurricane making landfall at the same time the RNC convention is starting.

Nowhere is he saying it's great there's a hurricane and that it's hitting the Gulf Coast.
A politician having a chuckle about a storm that's going to cost many people their homes and the country millions is acceptable. Gotcha! That's all good!

There you go again, making up s***. Where did I use the words "acceptable" or "good?"

wco81 wrote: On the Oberman-Moore video, which was obviously edited by whoever put it up on Youtube, Moore again is talking about the timing. Even in that video, Oberman refers to O'Reilly saying Katrina should have hit the UN.

The video cuts off after Moore talks about the timing and how God must be on the side of the Democrats (that itself is idiotic, the notion that God is on side of one party or another, one team or another, one country or another).

So if Moore said it's great that the hurricane is going to kill people and damage property, produce the evidence.
I watched the 7 min version. It is what it is. Olberman rips O'Reilly yet sucks on Moore's nutsack for an idiotic comment. Gotcha!! It's all good!

It's the link you posted. That is less than 2 minutes. Now you're going to blame me for clicking on your own link?

Keep reaching.

wco81 wrote:I will condemn them if they're celebrating the loss of life and destruction but at best, the videos you linked is inconclusive.

EDIT: Oh and by not failing to condemn them, I'm not condoning their comments or saying "it's all good."
Sure you will. It is all good!!!

You can believe whatever you want. Or make it up since that's what you're into.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:58 pm

JackDog wrote:Stupid f*cking heartless idiots.

Former DNC Chairman Don Fowler laughs at New Orleans while talking to Congressman John Spratt of SC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78
Cleaned up audio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86km6gPW ... re=related

Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJv9to8K ... re=related

These two sick f*cks have gone so far in their hatred for GWB and the Republicans that they appear to be rejoicing in any and all disasters that take place in our nation or around the world. The death of any soldier in Iraq, or the destruction of any home in New Orleans is no longer a tragedy to Olbermann, rather it is more material for his show and his hatred of the President. How sad when people like this actually take pleasure in the death and destruction of others. Olbermann should have ripped the fat off of Moore's ass for that comment instead of kissing it.

It still isn't as bad as this, especially coming from the McCain Camapaign :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01979.html

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:02 pm

wow, this is so racist. If you can't find the racism in this, then I guess you guys are true republicans.

So let's see, racist pictures of Obama, and overtly sexist comments about their own republican VP Nominee. And when it's pointed out, you guys think it's some kind of joke. If someone made the same kind of sexist remarks in a workplace, they'd be disciplined.

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:04 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
It still isn't as bad as this, especially coming from the McCain Camapaign :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01979.html

Another idiot.