XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

[wco81]

You're going to get a graphics upgrade and better media playback options.

On the one hand, people castigated Nintendo for not delivering enough power, going for gimmicks. Ultimately the Wii sales dried up and the WiiU sales haven't taken off because those systems are underpowered compared to the competition.

So rather than devote a lot of the budget to gimmicks like the WiiU tablet controller, which prevents Nintendo from putting in more powerful graphics, that's what the PS4 and X1 seem to be delivering.

Anything beyond that? Who knows, MS has said they think they might ship several times the number of X1s than they've shipped 360s. They're talking about hundreds of millions units instead of the approximately 70-80 million X360s they've sold this generation.

Maybe the Kinect and speaking to the X1 to change your channels will multiply their customer base. I think this is highly wishful thinking but who knows, maybe a lot of people who didn't have consoles before were waiting to wave their arms to play games or say "Xbox, ESPN" or "Xbox, play movie."

[Brando70]

People don't like DRM. They will tolerate it, but when given a choice, they will usually pick the DRM-free one unless there is a good reason to not do so. The benefits of the original XBone, while attractive for some, were also rather meaningless or detrimental for a lot of gamers. MS's list of rules for what you had to do and could not do with the new XBox read like legal copy on a credit card offer. Anyone with a lick of marketing sense would have understood why that would not go over well.

Also, they have not really offered up an explanation why they cannot enable some of those benefits without the DRM stuff. Why can't games purchased digitally be traded the way they intended originally, while physical discs are bound by the current restrictions? Why, if an XBox is connected to the Web, could they remove the disc requirement by simply registering a copy to the current profile while digital purchases would have the shareability promised initially? In other words, you could play without a disc in the drive, but you'd have to uninstall it before someone else could install that copy on another XBox.

Lost in all this talk about moving forward or having more of the same is that most of the XBone benefits had nothing to do with gaming. Yes, selling digital licenses is nice, but I am more concerned about seeing a real difference between a 99OVR lineman and a 69OVR lineman in Madden than I am about letting friends try my games for an hour.

[Aristo]

Mostly, I just wanted a discless system that let me buy games at competing retailers. I'm annoyed right now that I am going from my digital download copy of NCAA 13 to having to stick a disc in every time to play. While the XB1 will have release day digital releases, Angry Internet Men screwed up being able to do things like buy it at Toys 'R Us so we can get the $25 gift card, but still enjoy the benefit of having games loaded on the hard drive.

The entire point of the XB1 was that convenience to swap activities instantly. I can be playing Gears, see my buddy pop on for our NCAA dynasty game, and then take an invite without ever switching discs. Yeah, it's a first world problem, having to get up and change discs, but I live in the first world, and I would have liked the feature Microsoft wanted to add.

[dbdynsty25]

Mostly, I just wanted a discless system that let me buy games at competing retailers. I'm annoyed right now that I am going from my digital download copy of NCAA 13 to having to stick a disc in every time to play. While the XB1 will have release day digital releases, Angry Internet Men screwed up being able to do things like buy it at Toys 'R Us so we can get the $25 gift card, but still enjoy the benefit of having games loaded on the hard drive.

The entire point of the XB1 was that convenience to swap activities instantly. I can be playing Gears, see my buddy pop on for our NCAA dynasty game, and then take an invite without ever switching discs. Yeah, it's a first world problem, having to get up and change discs, but I live in the first world, and I would have liked the feature Microsoft wanted to add.

I'm fairly certain they will still allow for game downloads...they are just getting rid of all the check ins and crap like that on the physical media if you purchase it that way. So you'll still be good.

[Aristo]

Mostly, I just wanted a discless system that let me buy games at competing retailers. I'm annoyed right now that I am going from my digital download copy of NCAA 13 to having to stick a disc in every time to play. While the XB1 will have release day digital releases, Angry Internet Men screwed up being able to do things like buy it at Toys 'R Us so we can get the $25 gift card, but still enjoy the benefit of having games loaded on the hard drive.

The entire point of the XB1 was that convenience to swap activities instantly. I can be playing Gears, see my buddy pop on for our NCAA dynasty game, and then take an invite without ever switching discs. Yeah, it's a first world problem, having to get up and change discs, but I live in the first world, and I would have liked the feature Microsoft wanted to add.

I'm fairly certain they will still allow for game downloads...they are just getting rid of all the check ins and crap like that on the physical media if you purchase it that way. So you'll still be good.

Right. But if Target has the physical game on sale, I have to choose between whatever Microsoft wants versus using a disc. If the retail copies could be installed, and the discs no longer required, then I could choose to buy the cheaper version, which would also help drive the XBL Store prices down.

They could still do this, but they need to wait now, because the fan boys are still in war mode. Microsoft's problem was not going all the way and eliminating used game sales. If they had eliminated used game sales, then the check-ins would not be needed. So they could give you the option to install and play discless, but it would keep you from selling your game.

I expect that eventually Microsoft will go to a system where you can choose to install the game as requiring a disc or not. If you choose to require a disc, the code will remain available and you can sell your disc. If you go discless, the code will then be taken off the market, and installing the game on a new console would require the purchase of a new code.

But all of this will require that your XB1 be connected to the internet when you want to install a new game, and every game will have to be installed. If Microsoft does this now, fan boys go crazy. If they wait a year, it becomes a new feature.

[Wilk5280]

I don't get the whole fanboy thing... at all. It's not about being a fanboy, I mean that doesn't even make sense.

And for the record I'll choose being able to sell my used games on an open market over being lazy (and not having to get up to swap disks) every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Zeppo]

And for the record I'll choose being able to sell my used games on an open market over being lazy (and not having to get up to swap disks) every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's fine, but there were a whole host of other convenient, useful, and user-friendly and sharing-friendly features that were also part of the package that are also being lost for games bought on disc, not just the ability to "be lazy" and "not have to get up to swap discs."

It's really throwing the baby out with the bath water by trumpeting as a victory of the ability to sell used games on the real or virtual street corner while completely ignoring other parts of the story, such as the sharing options, the instant hot-swapping of games, or the ability to install the game and then play it on multiple machines at the same time, which is the kind of thing that would be really cool and maybe save some money for families who want to play games together online from separate consoles in the same household.

And also note that lots of retailers would still have been able to buy used games form consumers and have those discs' codes reset and then sell them as used with "as new" DRM licenses. So it's not like being able to trade in discs towards new game purchases or being able to buy used games from retailers would have been impossible.

[Danimal]

And for the record I'll choose being able to sell my used games on an open market over being lazy (and not having to get up to swap disks) every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I asked this earlier in the thread and never saw anyone answer but has the EULA changed since 2011? Because last time I bothered to read one you did not own the game you were licensing it. Maybe I'll open a game up and break out the magnifier and check it out.

This is just a curiosity question not a comment on your or anyone elses post.

[Aristo]

The existence of the secondary market keeps the prices of games high. I'll take laziness for cheaper new games.

[wco81]

Secondary market exists because the game prices are so high.

[Leebo33]

And for the record I'll choose being able to sell my used games on an open market over being lazy (and not having to get up to swap disks) every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I asked this earlier in the thread and never saw anyone answer but has the EULA changed since 2011? Because last time I bothered to read one you did not own the game you were licensing it. Maybe I'll open a game up and break out the magnifier and check it out.

This is just a curiosity question not a comment on your or anyone elses post.

I looked at the EULA for NBA2K13 and although you don't own the software it says, "However, you may transfer the entire Software and accompanying documentation on a permanent basis to another person as long as you retain no copies (including archival or backup copies) of the Software." I imagine there is similar verbiage in all of them.

[Aristo]

Secondary market exists because the game prices are so high.

Tell that to PC gamers.

[Wilk5280]

I should rephrase my last and I do apologize. I did not mean to come across as mean spirited as I may have. I'll take the ability to sell my used games on the open market over the convenience of installing to HD and not needing to swap disks. Or any of the other features and conveniences offered by MS's original plans.

I understand it would be possible to shellback / trade used games to authorized retailers, but that is not an open market in my opinion. Those prices would be fixed and probably much lower than I could get through my current means.

I also don't firmly believe prices would be cheaper if MS didn't have a used game or 2nd hand market. I just don't see how 2nd or 3rd parties would allow ms selling their games for 10, 20, 30 dollars cheaper than on Sony's competing platform. Maybe I'm naive and wrong, but I don't see it.

I will say this and this is truly how I feel. I wish MS didn't change course. Sony is offering me what I want and it's clear MS was offering people what they wanted as well. Maybe I would have seen the light and what I was missing out on, but I wouldn't use the features on a regular basis. Sure it is nice having games installed and not having to swap disks. I have DL'd games on both the 360 and Ps3 and it a convenience for sure. One I'm just not wanting bad enough to concede selling my used games to the highest bidder or giving it away if I choose.

[Wilk5280]

TP

[Wilk5280]

DP

[Danimal]

And for the record I'll choose being able to sell my used games on an open market over being lazy (and not having to get up to swap disks) every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I asked this earlier in the thread and never saw anyone answer but has the EULA changed since 2011? Because last time I bothered to read one you did not own the game you were licensing it. Maybe I'll open a game up and break out the magnifier and check it out.

This is just a curiosity question not a comment on your or anyone elses post.

I looked at the EULA for NBA2K13 and although you don't own the software it says, "However, you may transfer the entire Software and accompanying documentation on a permanent basis to another person as long as you retain no copies (including archival or backup copies) of the Software." I imagine there is similar verbiage in all of them.

Thanks Leebo that makes my thought process irrelevant. I wonder if PC games are different since there is no used market.

[Rodster]

Francis will be pissed !

"Xbox One's Family Sharing feature may return, Microsoft says"

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... osoft-says

[Feanor]

The existence of the secondary market keeps the prices of games high. I'll take laziness for cheaper new games.

Microsoft's always online DRM was not going to be accompanied by lower prices.

[Aristo]

The existence of the secondary market keeps the prices of games high. I'll take laziness for cheaper new games.

Microsoft's always online DRM was not going to be accompanied by lower prices.

Microsoft doesn't set prices, it reacts to supply and demand like every other company. When Gamestop can set a cheaper used product on the shelf next to a new copy, there ceases to be an incentive to lower prices. It encourages publishers to chase customers willing to spend more. The ones looing for deals buy used.

If you eliminate the secondary market, publishers can lower prices and increase revenues because they are getting paid for all copies purchased.

Microsoft, or any other publisher, will not lower prices because they are nice. They will lower prices if it will increase revenue. The secondary market makes that tougher to do.

As it is, I expect to spend about the same on games, regardless of the ability to sell used games. The plus side of eliminating the used market is that publishers making games can make more money, so they can take more chances on more games.

[dbdynsty25]

The plus side of eliminating the used market is that publishers making games can make more money, so they can take more chances on more games.

That's a complete fallacy tho. They can't take chances because people tend to buy less games if the resale value is eliminated. I wouldn't buy half the games I buy if I knew I wouldn't be able to sell them and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. That's why the internet went nerd rage and MS changed their stance. Clearly there are quite a few others like me out there and that would actually HURT more than it would help publishers and indy developers that are taking chances.

[pk500]

Francis will be pissed !

"Xbox One's Family Sharing feature may return, Microsoft says"

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... osoft-says

Another switch in course would be a PR problem. Microsoft's first change could be attributed to responding to gamers' wishes. A middling course correction back to family sharing and other features can only be perceived as mismanagement and a lack of planning and execution.

MS needs to learn either exactly what the majority of its customers want or continue to try to blaze a new rights and technology path for console gaming. Right now, it's trying to dry hump a horizontal metal bar without a protective cup. Painful.

MS needs to sh*t or get off the pot.

[Aristo]

The plus side of eliminating the used market is that publishers making games can make more money, so they can take more chances on more games.

That's a complete fallacy tho. They can't take chances because people tend to buy less games if the resale value is eliminated. I wouldn't buy half the games I buy if I knew I wouldn't be able to sell them and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. That's why the internet went nerd rage and MS changed their stance. Clearly there are quite a few others like me out there and that would actually HURT more than it would help publishers and indy developers that are taking chances.

Except that a lack of secondary market opens the budget conscious market up for publishers because they would no longer be in competition with their own product. This will lead to more sales and quicker price reductions, making those risky games more attractive.

Right now, when publishers lower prices to meet demand, the price of used games drop with it, continually undercutting them. And once you have dropped to budget prices, its even harder to compete in that market. If, however, they can drop the price to $30 and get ALL of the revenue from those sales, they can take more chances than if significant number of sub $40 purchases are used and generate zero revenue for the publishers.

The used market forces publishers to bleed the consumers willing to by new and used the most. If you are a budget consumer, they can't make money off of you in the current environment.

Thin about it. You said you would not buy a game if you couldn't resell it. That is the driving force that will force them to drop prices in order to still get your money. They have to find the sweet spot in which you will buy that game. And part of that will also be not bleeding you for every other game.

It's counter intuitive, but used games, because they work identical to new games, actually prop up game prices higher.

[dbdynsty25]

Thin about it. You said you would not buy a game if you couldn't resell it. That is the driving force that will force them to drop prices in order to still get your money. They have to find the sweet spot in which you will buy that game. And part of that will also be not bleeding you for every other game.

But that cost is unreachable. They'd have to sell games for 10-15 bucks because that's the money I'd lose buying a full price game and selling it few days later. 60 dollar games routinely can go for 45-50 on eBay a week after release. So unless they can meet that price, I'm still not going to buy. They won't go that low, which is my argument. Sure, I may buy a few more 40 dollar games, but I'd still love to get 30 back if I decide it sucks a week later.

[Diablo25]

I haven't preordered any XBone games yet so I've been looking at the launch titles. I'm guessing BF4 will make my preorder list. I'll need better looks at M25 and NBA2K14 before I pull the trigger on those. Dead Rising 3 is moving up the charts. Very intrigued by that one. Maybe Watch Dogs. Something about WDs is not pulling me in though. All the launch titles are below.

Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag Ubisoft
Battlefield 4 DICE
Call of Duty: Ghosts Infinity Ward
Dead Rising 3 Capcom
FIFA 14 EA Sports
Forza Motorsport 5 Turn 10
Just Dance 2014 Ubisoft
LEGO Marvel Super Heroes TT Games
LocoCycle Twisted Pixe
Madden NFL 25 EA Sports
NBA 2K14 Visual Concepts
NBA Live 14 EA Sports
Killer Instinct Double Helix
Kinect Sports Rivals Rare
Ryse: Son of Rome Crytek
Skylanders: Swap Force
Watch Dogs

[Pete1210]

I haven't preordered any XBone games yet so I've been looking at the launch titles. I'm guessing BF4 will make my preorder list. I'll need better looks at M25 and NBA2K14 before I pull the trigger on those. Dead Rising 3 is moving up the charts. Very intrigued by that one. Maybe Watch Dogs. Something about WDs is not pulling me in though. All the launch titles are below.

BF4 is already pre-ordered.
Kinect Sports I'll get for some family fun. I'm really hoping the new Kinect is much better.
I too am not sure about the sports games. Last time the first sports offerings were lacking.
Then either Watch Dogs or AC4 (maybe both?). This AC4 trailer got me interested.