Rock Band - Impressions...

[F308GTB]

Skeptical if buying a keyboard accessory would be worth it. I mean how many songs have keyboard, and none of the back catalog will support it.

Guess have to wait and see what is new in Rock Band 3.

Maybe we can live through the 80s again with a "Keytar" accessory. Now wouldn't that be fun

[webdanzer]

Here comes RB3:

Songs so far:

2000s
Combat Baby -- Metric
Dead End Friends -- Them Crooked Vultures
Get Free -- The Vines
Lasso -- Phoenix
Me Enamora -- Juanes
Oh My God -- Ida Maria
Portions of Foxes -- Rilo Kiley
The Hardest Button to Button -- The White Stripes

1990s
Been Caught Stealing -- Jane's Addiction
In the Meantime -- Spacehog
Plush -- Stone Temple Pilots
Walkin' on the Sun -- Smash Mouth

1980s
Crazy Train -- Ozzy Osbourne
Here I Go Again -- Whitesnake
I Love Rock and Roll -- Joan Jett
Just Like Heaven -- The Cure
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
The Power of Love -- Huey Lewis and the News
Sister Christian -- Night Ranger

1960s-1970s
Bohemian Rhapsody -- Queen
Break On Through -- The Doors
Crosstown Traffic -- Jimi Hendrix


Lotsa info: (Video at second link)

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/201 ... 0_VA_N.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/201 ... 0_ST_N.htm

Some highlights:






-New instrument (a 25-key, fully functioning MIDI keyboard) In a new authentic Pro mode meant to help players segue to actual instruments, all 25 keys are used; the streams shifts left and right to cover the correct keys. The keyboard also works as a MIDI keyboard that can be connected to a computer. "This is a real instrument and a real device," says senior designer Sylvain Dubrofsky.

-new authentic Pro mode aimed at helping players develop skills usable on real instruments.

-Players can jump in or out of songs without interrupting a song already in progress. They can also change instruments or difficulty settings during a song without pausing

-Revamped song-filtering system. With the Rock Band library expected to grow to about 2,000 songs by year's end, it has grown too big for simply scrolling. With the new system, "you can say, 'only show me songs in Rock Band 3' or 'only songs under three minutes' or 'Eighties metal songs from my (downloadable) collection,' " Teasdale says. "It's a really cool way to take your full library down to a manageable list of songs."

-three-part harmonies

More info on PRO mode and instruments:

•Rock Band Pro. This new music learning mode lets players develop real-world music-playing fundamentals for keyboards, guitars and drums. More realistic music notations replace the standard color-coded notes during gameplay. For guitar, numbers flow down the screen along six guitar strings, telling you where to place your hands on the neck and when to strum.

Two new guitar controllers in the works have actual strings where you strum; one is a full-sized, fully functional six-string Squier Stratocaster from Fender. "It can tell where your fingers are based on technology in the neck and the bridge of the guitar. No buttons," Drake says. "While you're playing it, it feels exactly like playing a real guitar," because that's what you're doing.

The other is a Fender Mustang Pro controller from accessory maker Mad Catz with a field of buttons in each fret. As your fingers compress the smaller non-colored buttons on that guitar's neck, your finger positions are represented in the game's display. "You can go from plucking single notes to power chords and bar chords, we have crazy stuff like tapping and slides," Dubrofsky says. "If you ever had any aspirations of connecting with the music in a deeper way ... you are really going to like Rock Band 3."

For drums, three new cymbals are added to the standard four drum pads, and you are forced to play the correct cymbal at the right time. "It really immerses you more. You feel more like a drummer," Dubrofsky says. "It's not only for expert levels. You can come in on easy and actually play Pro drums. We have all the different levels established. It's actually really fun. You are playing up on the high hat or down on the snare, and it feels more like a kit than ever before."

On keyboards, Sussman says, "we're actually utilizing the full two-octave range that the keyboard controller has. Everything that you are playing, whether you are playing on easy or expert, is accurate musical information. The track looks like a real keyboard track, and you are playing notes on the keyboard that if you were to step away from the game and were to play on a real piano, they would be the right notes."

Pro players can use the mode for private practice or incorporate it while others play the game's standard arcade modes. "You can be an expert keys-player playing with an all easy band, no problem," Drake says.


Also, you don't NEED any of this new stuff. You can play RB3 using all the old instruments in the old modes, apparently.



I'm going to be one of those guys who will see exactly how much 'real guitar' I can learn to play from RB3...

No details yet on prices.

[webdanzer]

[Edit--posted twice to avoid that 'doesn't exist' bug on new page]


Here comes RB3:

Songs so far:

2000s
Combat Baby -- Metric
Dead End Friends -- Them Crooked Vultures
Get Free -- The Vines
Lasso -- Phoenix
Me Enamora -- Juanes
Oh My God -- Ida Maria
Portions of Foxes -- Rilo Kiley
The Hardest Button to Button -- The White Stripes

1990s
Been Caught Stealing -- Jane's Addiction
In the Meantime -- Spacehog
Plush -- Stone Temple Pilots
Walkin' on the Sun -- Smash Mouth

1980s
Crazy Train -- Ozzy Osbourne
Here I Go Again -- Whitesnake
I Love Rock and Roll -- Joan Jett
Just Like Heaven -- The Cure
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
The Power of Love -- Huey Lewis and the News
Sister Christian -- Night Ranger

1960s-1970s
Bohemian Rhapsody -- Queen
Break On Through -- The Doors
Crosstown Traffic -- Jimi Hendrix


Lotsa info: (Video at second link)

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/201 ... 0_VA_N.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/201 ... 0_ST_N.htm

Some highlights:






-New instrument (a 25-key, fully functioning MIDI keyboard) In a new authentic Pro mode meant to help players segue to actual instruments, all 25 keys are used; the streams shifts left and right to cover the correct keys. The keyboard also works as a MIDI keyboard that can be connected to a computer. "This is a real instrument and a real device," says senior designer Sylvain Dubrofsky.

-new authentic Pro mode aimed at helping players develop skills usable on real instruments.

-Players can jump in or out of songs without interrupting a song already in progress. They can also change instruments or difficulty settings during a song without pausing

-Revamped song-filtering system. With the Rock Band library expected to grow to about 2,000 songs by year's end, it has grown too big for simply scrolling. With the new system, "you can say, 'only show me songs in Rock Band 3' or 'only songs under three minutes' or 'Eighties metal songs from my (downloadable) collection,' " Teasdale says. "It's a really cool way to take your full library down to a manageable list of songs."

-three-part harmonies

More info on PRO mode and instruments:

•Rock Band Pro. This new music learning mode lets players develop real-world music-playing fundamentals for keyboards, guitars and drums. More realistic music notations replace the standard color-coded notes during gameplay. For guitar, numbers flow down the screen along six guitar strings, telling you where to place your hands on the neck and when to strum.

Two new guitar controllers in the works have actual strings where you strum; one is a full-sized, fully functional six-string Squier Stratocaster from Fender. "It can tell where your fingers are based on technology in the neck and the bridge of the guitar. No buttons," Drake says. "While you're playing it, it feels exactly like playing a real guitar," because that's what you're doing.

The other is a Fender Mustang Pro controller from accessory maker Mad Catz with a field of buttons in each fret. As your fingers compress the smaller non-colored buttons on that guitar's neck, your finger positions are represented in the game's display. "You can go from plucking single notes to power chords and bar chords, we have crazy stuff like tapping and slides," Dubrofsky says. "If you ever had any aspirations of connecting with the music in a deeper way ... you are really going to like Rock Band 3."

For drums, three new cymbals are added to the standard four drum pads, and you are forced to play the correct cymbal at the right time. "It really immerses you more. You feel more like a drummer," Dubrofsky says. "It's not only for expert levels. You can come in on easy and actually play Pro drums. We have all the different levels established. It's actually really fun. You are playing up on the high hat or down on the snare, and it feels more like a kit than ever before."

On keyboards, Sussman says, "we're actually utilizing the full two-octave range that the keyboard controller has. Everything that you are playing, whether you are playing on easy or expert, is accurate musical information. The track looks like a real keyboard track, and you are playing notes on the keyboard that if you were to step away from the game and were to play on a real piano, they would be the right notes."

Pro players can use the mode for private practice or incorporate it while others play the game's standard arcade modes. "You can be an expert keys-player playing with an all easy band, no problem," Drake says.


Also, you don't NEED any of this new stuff. You can play RB3 using all the old instruments in the old modes, apparently.



I'm going to be one of those guys who will see exactly how much 'real guitar' I can learn to play from RB3...

No details yet on prices.

[vader29]

I've messed around with a keyboard years ago and learned a little about playing and could play parts of some songs by memory but was never able to fully grasp it, will be interesting to see if this game can be used to teach keyboard and guitar. Love that give you the option to upgrade to the pro mode if you want or to just continue playing it as a game like the previous versions with your old controllers.

[matthewk]

I knew this was the direction the genre was going to go, but I'm not sure if I like or not.

It's getting close to the point where if they really want to make it just like playing real instruments, then why wouldn't I just get a real instrument instead of this? Having only 5 buttons on a guitar wasn't realistic, but it made playing (or pretending to play) guitar accessible to people who for whatever reasons did not play a real guitar. Real instruments cost more, but I can learn to play any song I want on them, or even create my own music.

I'm wondering if in the process of making "progress" they will lose the element of fun that made this genre such a hit in the first place.

[RobVarak]

All that innovation and brilliant design is nice, but here's what I see when I read Web's post.

Blah
Blah
Blah

The Power of Love -- Huey Lewis and the News

Blah
Blah

Hell. Yeah. Loves me some Huey Lewis!!

[webdanzer]

I knew this was the direction the genre was going to go, but I'm not sure if I like or not.

It's getting close to the point where if they really want to make it just like playing real instruments, then why wouldn't I just get a real instrument instead of this? Having only 5 buttons on a guitar wasn't realistic, but it made playing (or pretending to play) guitar accessible to people who for whatever reasons did not play a real guitar. Real instruments cost more, but I can learn to play any song I want on them, or even create my own music.

I'm wondering if in the process of making "progress" they will lose the element of fun that made this genre such a hit in the first place.

Matt, the developers are well aware of this concern, which is why you don't need to buy into any of the new instruments or use the Pro modes at all. You can keep whaling away on Medium or whatever using the game the same way you did for the others. (Though with better song sorting methods and such)

Of course, you may see some more keyboard oriented songs, as seen in Rob's post:

'YOU DON'T NEED MONEY, DON'T TAKE FAME!'

...though I think it may take a credit card if you want to buy all the new stuff...

[Brando70]

I think this sounds great. It's cool that they are making this more like learning to play music -- it's a great bridge for kids between games and actual music, and a way for old farts like me to indulge in our rock fantasies while learning a little bit about music too. At this point in my life I'm not going to buy a drum kit and start banging around in my house, but I can do that in RB, have a good (and quieter) time, and now learn drumming a little more in the process. Much more productive that lassoing horses in RDR.

[RobVarak]

Much more productive that lassoing horses in RDR.

Hey now RDR has real life lessons. 1. I've found my cow herding experience very helpful getting my 1, 3 and 7 year-olds to the pool every day. 2. I've learned that snake oil salesmen can be useful allies when attacking the stronghold of a murderous gang leader. 3. I've learned never to get caught in a flower picking animation when there are grizzlies about.

[Brando70]

...though I think it may take a credit card if you want to buy all the new stuff...

LOL, I can only imagine what this stuff is going to cost. I'm fortunate that I still use my RB1 drums and guitar, so it's not too much of a stretch to chip in for upgraded equipment.

I have played RB 1 and 2 more than any two games in my life, and I absolutely love them. Trying to play drums on expert has been so enjoyable despite the difficulty. I recently finished a Keith Moon Who track on expert for the first time and felt genuinely rewarded for sticking with the game.

What this game now needs is more Dio and less Huey Lewis.

[webdanzer]

I've learned never to get caught in a flower picking animation when there are grizzlies about.

[matthewk]

Trying to play drums on expert has been so enjoyable despite the difficulty. I recently finished a Keith Moon Who track on expert for the first time and felt genuinely rewarded for sticking with the game.

I'm only on hard, but I can relate to the sense of satisfaction that I can now complete songs from bands like the Who and Iron Maiden consistently.

What this game now needs is more Dio and less Huey Lewis.

Much more Dio Of course, I'd be happy with just more 80s, 70s and metal in general. I don't think I've even heard of any of the songs listed for RB3 that are from the 2000s.

[Naples39]

The keyboard stuff looks pretty clever, but I am loathe to spend more money on video game instruments.

I guess worst case is that RB3 is just another $60 track pack.

[Zeppo]

I need to look at some videos, but the keyboard stuff strikes me right away as rather odd and pretty much against the grain of what the whole Harmonix thing has been about from the start. A 25 key keyboard? I don't care if it's midi, I don't know how a 25 key keyboard will help me with midi. And it's that game-able divorce from the real deal that makes the whole guitar hero thng work at all, to me. As someone said, if I want a real guitar or keyboard feel, why don't I just get a real guitar or keyboard?

the drums are the exception. The new drums sound like a big improvement, assuming they can put the high-hat to snare positions in a realistic, or at least 'air-drum'-able relationship. I've read about guys getting those high-end rock band / midi drums and arranging them to get the high hat in the right place, so if it's out of the box correct, then it should be a lot better than the already good RB drum experience.

And as to the fancy, no button guitar - the tech sounds very cool, but I just cat beleive it would make for a very good real electric guitar unless it cost a crap load of money. The whole wood stratocaster RB controller thing struck me as absurdly luxury (of course, if you could get it on a really cheap deal, it would be alright with me!), and so this just seems a little too much like that crazy Xbox mech game controller thng that went over like a led balloon. Sure, it was awesome for those who were willing to pay the price, but as a video game, it simply didn't achieve the kind of mass audience necessary to make a successful venture.

I just think they are reaching a little too far in the wrong direction, but I hope I am wrong. My father is a music educator, and so the whole guitar hero / RB thing is fascinating as it has gotten a lot of kids interested in playing music. Maybe since this new guitar and the keyboard are more like the drum experence across the board, in terms of being a better analog to the real thing, it will serve better in that role, but I just don't see it right now.

I'd almost prefer that they push kore towards larger bands, with rhythm AND lead guitar parts much as they are adding 3-part harmonis which work great in RB: The Beatles. Letting three people share guitar(s) and bass is more interesting to me than a 25-key 'wish it was a key-tar) keyboard.

[webdanzer]

the drums are the exception. The new drums sound like a big improvement, assuming they can put the high-hat to snare positions in a realistic, or at least 'air-drum'-able relationship. I've read about guys getting those high-end rock band / midi drums and arranging them to get the high hat in the right place, so if it's out of the box correct, then it should be a lot better than the already good RB drum experience.

And as to the fancy, no button guitar - the tech sounds very cool, but I just cat beleive it would make for a very good real electric guitar unless it cost a crap load of money. The whole wood stratocaster RB controller thing struck me as absurdly luxury (of course, if you could get it on a really cheap deal, it would be alright with me!), and so this just seems a little too much like that crazy Xbox mech game controller thng that went over like a led balloon. Sure, it was awesome for those who were willing to pay the price, but as a video game, it simply didn't achieve the kind of mass audience necessary to make a successful venture.

But the game is not going to be depending on mass adoption of the new guitar peripherals for its success. As I've already said, you can continue on playing with even the RB1 instruments and still enjoy the new harmonies, tracks, sorting, pick-up-and-play functions, etc.

You mentioned the Ion drumsets, and they did indeed go over really well with a select audience, but RB2 didn't depend on them. I see the string GH3 guitars working the same way. (and I do expect them to be quite expensive) I would also guess that if it works correctly, a guitar game expansion controller that actually teaches one to play guitar is going to find more of a market than a peripheral that helped to turn your den into the cockpit of some Robotech warrior.

For those who want to go on enjoying the RB experience the way they have been, you can view RB3 as simply a new iteration and a big track pack, with some cool new features as expected in a new edition. Ignore the Pro stuff completely.

[Brando70]

LOL, I think bkrich had that mech game.

For me, the idea of having more "realistic" drums would be a big plus. I was tempted to get the Ion kit for that reason but couldn't really justify spending the money so soon after plopping $160 for the RB1 set. Now, three years after pounding on Fisher Price's My First Drum Kit, I can make a better case for an upgrade

[Naples39]

Some more info from kotaku; http://kotaku.com/5560679/rock-band-3-p ... controller

The keyboard is a lot more appealing to me if that converter box works with the full size keyboard I already own, but the 102 button guitar seems a little intense to me.

[webdanzer]

...but the 102 button guitar seems a little intense to me.

Yeah. I would say that that one is the odd choice. I'd think that if you really wanted to use the game as a learning tool, you'd go with the fully-sized, functional Squier Stratocaster option, without the buttons. The Mad Catz Mustang option seems like an odd middle ground, but I bet it's there because the Strat is going to be major moolah.

[Brando70]

If I get that keytar, I'm going to have to play it while wearing the skinny white leather tie I still have in my closet.

[webdanzer]

Stolen from a post on Neo-Gaf, why Pro mode may not be quite so fun:

[Naples39]

Stolen from a post on Neo-Gaf, why Pro mode may not be quite so fun:

I agree, but doesn't strike me as any worse than the normal guitar solos on expert for most metal songs.

[Brando70]

Well, pro mode should be pro. I looked at the forum and I think that may be the solo from "Rainbow in the Dark," which should be a bear to play if all the notes are charted. I don't think I should be able to just jump in a play at the same level Vivian Campbell did when he recorded that.

I doubt I'd invest enough time to play the guitar in pro mode, but I enjoy drumming enough that I think I would put some time into the pro drum mode, at least to learn how to play some of the easier songs.

At the worst, it'll be an RB3 game with a huge library and instruments that should be much better than the originals that I have. That's good enough for me.

[webdanzer]

I agree, but doesn't strike me as any worse than the normal guitar solos on expert for most metal songs.

Not any worse in what way? When I look at that I'm thinking about the extra level of translation necessary to take what is coming at me on screen at a high rate of speed and turn it into proper fingering positions on the guitar. On Expert level solos coming at you now, you're seeing the finger placements right on screen, no extra level of interpretation needed. Not saying that once you learn the notations it's impossible or anything like that, but it certainly seems more complex to me. ('
See the finger placement, move the fingers' vs 'see the notation, figure out what that means, move the fingers')

I'm not complaining, however; I agree with Brando that Pro should be Pro. I posted that gif as sort of an agreement to the posters who were saying they appreciated the divorce between real instruments and the game, were looking at RB 'just for fun,' etc. I think the gif supports what I was saying before, that if you're looking at it as just a game, you should probably ignore the whole pro stuff. Luckily, RB3 lets you do this and still gives you new features.

I'm really stoked about using this with the real guitar option. Does that make it less of a game and more of a learning tool? Very probably, sure. But when I think of how much fun I had 'learning' drums (and to a lesser extent guitar) up to an expert level already with RB, I think I trust them enough to create for me an engaging and rewarding learning experience that I can see myself sticking with. At least that is what I am hoping for.

[webdanzer]

And for stuff that appeals to folks with a lot of tunes:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/11/rock- ... n-preview/

The music choice screen has also vastly improved -- with so many songs in the library, the devs said, just flipping through titles wasn't good enough. So now there's a filter system -- you can choose all songs with five star difficulty for guitars, or all songs from the 80s, or all songs from RBN or Rock Band 2 (RB3 will allow you to import previous games' and downloadable songs, though not all the details are worked out quite yet), or all songs with a certain length or all songs of a certain genre. You can combine filters -- if your party wants to only play songs rated five stars with a short length from Rock Band 1, you can. Once you've chosen a song, a redesigned song info screen has lots of new information, including past performance stats and even your own custom ratings (which will then be used in the game -- if you never want to see a song come up in the random playlists again, rate it badly, or vice versa).

Playlists can now be saved, and once they're saved, you can give them a name and an icon to play again later. You can save your favorite albums, and play through those all at once. You can even share playlists both in the game on RockBand.com, and you can turn them into custom battles, inviting your friends to play the same songs and try to beat your score.


Bolding mine. This stuff is great, and something I've wanted for a long time. I download lots of stuff to play on my own, but often it's kinda a PITA to wade through all that when I bring the game out to a family party, where we just want to find and play the 'Party songs.'

I know there are some songs that I never want to see pop up in random playlists, so if I can rate them off into Limbo that'd be great as well!

[Naples39]

I agree, but doesn't strike me as any worse than the normal guitar solos on expert for most metal songs.

Not any worse in what way? When I look at that I'm thinking about the extra level of translation necessary to take what is coming at me on screen at a high rate of speed and turn it into proper fingering positions on the guitar. On Expert level solos coming at you now, you're seeing the finger placements right on screen, no extra level of interpretation needed. Not saying that once you learn the notations it's impossible or anything like that, but it certainly seems more complex to me. ('
See the finger placement, move the fingers' vs 'see the notation, figure out what that means, move the fingers')

Yeah, there is an extra layer of complexity and you probably won't be able to sightread like you can now, but the finger gymnastics and 'fun factor' is equally low to me in both modes.