Rocking past DB's Drvatar!
[youtube]http://youtu.be/waojckGEPr8[/youtube]
Forza 5
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Re: Forza 5
XBL Gamertag: Spooky Disco
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TheTruth
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Re: Forza 5
It doesn't like the shortened links. Have to use the actual link to the clip. Make sure you are on the desktop version of youtube (if using a mobile device) and copy the link from there.Spooky wrote:Seriously. How the f*ck do you insert a YouTube clip?!?!?
[b]Xbox Live Gamertag:[/b] [color=red]HOGZ TheTruth[/color] Wii: 7256 9991 5571 9701
Re: Forza 5
Link should look like this:Spooky wrote:Seriously. How the f*ck do you insert a YouTube clip?!?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHTFuICKkk
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dbdynsty25
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Re: Forza 5
LOL...that wasn't a very good imitation of me. I dominate Laguna.Spooky wrote:Seriously. How the f*ck do you insert a YouTube clip?!?!?
Re: Forza 5
XBL Gamertag: Spooky Disco
Re: Forza 5
Thanks for sharing that video Spooky. This drivatar feature seems to give Forza 5 a level of personality we haven't seen in console racing games before. I know Scott says that wasn't a good imitation of his driving at Laguna and it made me wonder if there's a way you can actually watch your drivatar in a race on your own console? I think it would be cool if you could race against, or at least watch your drivatar in a race against others as a spectator.
Re: Forza 5
I don't think there is, but yeah--that would be cool.
One thing I'll give Forza...it made me bored with Gran Turismo 6 within a couple of days. The drivatars have to just be a catchy name for AI, as they still have to allow the AI to compile from user data, and then the drivatar AI tries to recreate it. But it certainly gives it some life. I've watched some eerily human-like stuff going on in offline races. Guys taking each other out, me forcing my way under an AI driver in a corner, only to watch him divebomb me the next corner--almost like a "Got ya back!" moment.
It really is fun as hell to race against, and makes the career grind far less of a grind. I have a blast banging around with the AI cars and finishing 3rd, much more than I do banging around with the GT6 cars and finishing 1st.
One thing I'll give Forza...it made me bored with Gran Turismo 6 within a couple of days. The drivatars have to just be a catchy name for AI, as they still have to allow the AI to compile from user data, and then the drivatar AI tries to recreate it. But it certainly gives it some life. I've watched some eerily human-like stuff going on in offline races. Guys taking each other out, me forcing my way under an AI driver in a corner, only to watch him divebomb me the next corner--almost like a "Got ya back!" moment.
It really is fun as hell to race against, and makes the career grind far less of a grind. I have a blast banging around with the AI cars and finishing 3rd, much more than I do banging around with the GT6 cars and finishing 1st.
Re: Forza 5
The only way I can think of is to create a second account and start racing under it. I know my daughter's Drivatar started showing up in my races. I think it would be awesome if you could go online and observe races in which your Drivatar is competing.J_Cauthen wrote:Thanks for sharing that video Spooky. This drivatar feature seems to give Forza 5 a level of personality we haven't seen in console racing games before. I know Scott says that wasn't a good imitation of his driving at Laguna and it made me wonder if there's a way you can actually watch your drivatar in a race on your own console? I think it would be cool if you could race against, or at least watch your drivatar in a race against others as a spectator.
I'm not really worried about Drivatars being completely accurate. What they have added is an unpredictability and character to the races. If you find them to be annoyingly bad, you can just boost the difficulty of Drivatars, which affects which ones get slotted in your races. The higher I go, the fewer of my fiends that make the cut. But while the driving gets better, it's still a million times more organic than any other driving AI.
I've never had anywhere near this much fun playing solo in any driving game.
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dbdynsty25
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Re: Forza 5
I was mostly being sarcastic haha. I wonder if they take your driving on all tracks and compile it or if they have specific drivetars for each track. I'm better the former just because it would take a hellova back end to manage all that data.
Re: Forza 5
OK, hooked up the TX and gave Forza a whirl with it. More impressions tomorrow, but damn...amazing. I followed all the steps, updated the firmware first and have zero dead zone or other issues with it.
I had to turn down the FF to about 70 because it felt like driving an old 70's car with no power steering on full blast. In a massive surprise, I also noticed the connector for the pedals was identical to my T500RS. Lo and behold, I connected those and they worked. The default pedals were surprisingly good considering they felt cheap, but they're no substitute for my big metal T500RS pedal set.
Connected those, turned all assists off and set steering to sim, and proceeded to be sent to Heaven for the past hour or so. It's brilliant. So much that I can feel the tires breaking traction in a corner, and can tell exactly where I'm pushing it too far. Much like the tactile triggers on the controller, that translated to the FF for the wheel, so it's almost like you can feel the right half of the wheel shake when the RF tire hits a rumble strip. I would almost swear I feel individual FF forces for each tire, but I've only run about 10 races so far with it.
So far I'm massively, massively impressed.
I had to turn down the FF to about 70 because it felt like driving an old 70's car with no power steering on full blast. In a massive surprise, I also noticed the connector for the pedals was identical to my T500RS. Lo and behold, I connected those and they worked. The default pedals were surprisingly good considering they felt cheap, but they're no substitute for my big metal T500RS pedal set.
Connected those, turned all assists off and set steering to sim, and proceeded to be sent to Heaven for the past hour or so. It's brilliant. So much that I can feel the tires breaking traction in a corner, and can tell exactly where I'm pushing it too far. Much like the tactile triggers on the controller, that translated to the FF for the wheel, so it's almost like you can feel the right half of the wheel shake when the RF tire hits a rumble strip. I would almost swear I feel individual FF forces for each tire, but I've only run about 10 races so far with it.
So far I'm massively, massively impressed.
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mixdj1
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Re: Forza 5
Thanks for the impressions! Now I really can't wait for next week when I can set mine up and try it out.
Re: Forza 5
OK, I played this until past midnight last night, I was so enthralled. I'm getting old, so going to bed past 11 kills me. It was worth it. 
I had ZERO deadzone issues or any delayed responses with the wheel like I read online. I still believe it's people ignoring the big sticker on the wheel's plastic wrap in the box that says "YOU MUST UPDATE THE FIRMWARE", or they don't read the directions on how to do so. Connecting the wheel prior to installing the drivers on the PC, for example, screws everything up (learned that with the T500RS when I got it last year). So I still have to chalk it up to operator error until somebody I trust has an issue.
And the default force feedback is off the charts, over the top strong. I don't know many people who won't want to turn that down almost immediately. The wheel will literally snap one way or the other as you catch it in a drift or something. I wrecked more than I care to admit with it at 100%. Once I dialed it back to 70% or so, then it gave me enough force to feel exactly what the car was doing, but not require so much damned work to drive! I don't want an arm workout, it's a video game!
But the force feedback--wow. The more I think about it, the more I sort of believe the MS hype about how they changed how FF works on the XB1. I won't know until I take the TX over to the PC to try it and see if the FF works on the PC as well as it does on the XB1. If it does, then I know the wheel is just incredible. If it doesn't, then I know it's FM5's FF code or the XB1's, or both. But the FF is strong, and obviously uses a notched belt system because you can feel some rigidity in the forces. There is the tiniest "notch" effect when you turn the wheel. Remember the old FF wheels where you'd feel damn near every gear tooth as you spun the wheel---it's that kind of effect, but it's so minor and small that people who haven't used damn near every wheel on the market won't even notice it. Compared to the CSR Elite, though, which uses nothing but smooth belts and optical sensors, the FF is a little "notchier", if that makes any sense.
But even so, it's the best FF I've felt in a racing game. It's a little weird going straight, because the wheel is very loose at top dead center. But the second you move it left or right, the wheel has a little "snap" effect as the car takes off that direction. It's not quite realistic, as a real car has a smoother behavior getting into turns, but what it does is give you some of the feel in your hands that you would have in your ass in a real car. You turn a car, and your body gets thrown in your seat a bit. That's what this wheel is simulating, through your hands, somehow. It's pretty crazy.
What I discovered that does is allow you to REALLY push it further than you think you could. I'm not a good "drift" guy. I like to be technical on my braking points, roll the car through the corner, focus on exit speed, etc. Well, with pretty much any wheel you can do that. What THIS wheel has done is allowed me to find where that fine line is between control and spinning out. I found myself pushing further and further through the night, outbraking the AI more and more each time. When you can feel so many fine details of when the front tires lose traction, and you have engine torque in the wheel (a quick stab of the accelerator has a slight jerk on the wheel. So does shifting, etc), you can tell exactly how much throttle you have to apply to get the car to bite again, or when to level out the steering a bit to bring it back under control. I can't tell you how many times I thought the car was absolutely gone last night and I managed to save it just from the feel in the wheel, knowing exactly what I had to do to regain control in a slide. That's incredible, as I've always sucked at that part. If I lose grip in the tires, I just sort of close my eyes and hold on, because I suck at regaining control (those who race me in F1 see this. As long as I can be smooth on brakes and gas, I'm fine. The minute I get a little loosey-goosey, my car is all over and I'm usually wrecking).
Bottom line, the FF effects are absolutely top shelf. I don't know if it's the wheel, the XB1, or Forza 5 (or a combination of all 3). But it made the entire game come to life for me last night. I can't wait to hear what you think when you open it, Mix.
And Don--it may very well be worth the cost of the console, the wheel, and Forza.
I had ZERO deadzone issues or any delayed responses with the wheel like I read online. I still believe it's people ignoring the big sticker on the wheel's plastic wrap in the box that says "YOU MUST UPDATE THE FIRMWARE", or they don't read the directions on how to do so. Connecting the wheel prior to installing the drivers on the PC, for example, screws everything up (learned that with the T500RS when I got it last year). So I still have to chalk it up to operator error until somebody I trust has an issue.
And the default force feedback is off the charts, over the top strong. I don't know many people who won't want to turn that down almost immediately. The wheel will literally snap one way or the other as you catch it in a drift or something. I wrecked more than I care to admit with it at 100%. Once I dialed it back to 70% or so, then it gave me enough force to feel exactly what the car was doing, but not require so much damned work to drive! I don't want an arm workout, it's a video game!
But the force feedback--wow. The more I think about it, the more I sort of believe the MS hype about how they changed how FF works on the XB1. I won't know until I take the TX over to the PC to try it and see if the FF works on the PC as well as it does on the XB1. If it does, then I know the wheel is just incredible. If it doesn't, then I know it's FM5's FF code or the XB1's, or both. But the FF is strong, and obviously uses a notched belt system because you can feel some rigidity in the forces. There is the tiniest "notch" effect when you turn the wheel. Remember the old FF wheels where you'd feel damn near every gear tooth as you spun the wheel---it's that kind of effect, but it's so minor and small that people who haven't used damn near every wheel on the market won't even notice it. Compared to the CSR Elite, though, which uses nothing but smooth belts and optical sensors, the FF is a little "notchier", if that makes any sense.
But even so, it's the best FF I've felt in a racing game. It's a little weird going straight, because the wheel is very loose at top dead center. But the second you move it left or right, the wheel has a little "snap" effect as the car takes off that direction. It's not quite realistic, as a real car has a smoother behavior getting into turns, but what it does is give you some of the feel in your hands that you would have in your ass in a real car. You turn a car, and your body gets thrown in your seat a bit. That's what this wheel is simulating, through your hands, somehow. It's pretty crazy.
What I discovered that does is allow you to REALLY push it further than you think you could. I'm not a good "drift" guy. I like to be technical on my braking points, roll the car through the corner, focus on exit speed, etc. Well, with pretty much any wheel you can do that. What THIS wheel has done is allowed me to find where that fine line is between control and spinning out. I found myself pushing further and further through the night, outbraking the AI more and more each time. When you can feel so many fine details of when the front tires lose traction, and you have engine torque in the wheel (a quick stab of the accelerator has a slight jerk on the wheel. So does shifting, etc), you can tell exactly how much throttle you have to apply to get the car to bite again, or when to level out the steering a bit to bring it back under control. I can't tell you how many times I thought the car was absolutely gone last night and I managed to save it just from the feel in the wheel, knowing exactly what I had to do to regain control in a slide. That's incredible, as I've always sucked at that part. If I lose grip in the tires, I just sort of close my eyes and hold on, because I suck at regaining control (those who race me in F1 see this. As long as I can be smooth on brakes and gas, I'm fine. The minute I get a little loosey-goosey, my car is all over and I'm usually wrecking).
Bottom line, the FF effects are absolutely top shelf. I don't know if it's the wheel, the XB1, or Forza 5 (or a combination of all 3). But it made the entire game come to life for me last night. I can't wait to hear what you think when you open it, Mix.
And Don--it may very well be worth the cost of the console, the wheel, and Forza.
Re: Forza 5
Damn you Terry, the last thing I need is to try to figure out a way to spend another $400 on the Xbox One!!!
Anyone else think the Drivatars are a complete pain in the ass at Yas Marina? They take an odd approach to the tight corners and I either have to slow down too much to let them fly by or have them ram into me. I haven't noticed this kind of consistency anywhere else, but it really makes me dread racing there.
Anyone else think the Drivatars are a complete pain in the ass at Yas Marina? They take an odd approach to the tight corners and I either have to slow down too much to let them fly by or have them ram into me. I haven't noticed this kind of consistency anywhere else, but it really makes me dread racing there.
xbl/psn tag: dave2eleven
Re: Forza 5
LOL sorry, Dave. Sorta!
And yeah, Yas Marina is just a track like that. It's not that the drivatars are screwed up there--it's that the data they collect really lends to some crazy stuff there. They're collecting how early we brake, how much we divebomb to get under somebody, etc.
With Yas Marina, it's a bunch of long straights and super-tight corners. That just exacerbates the divebomb effect, because the drivatars are really going to push it late and fly under you. I've noticed the same thing, so I've started to brake early and use crossover moves to get runs on them coming down the next straight. Your only other alternative is to stick low and stay there. They won't cornhole you, so that's a bonus. The only time you're screwed is if you give them room.
And yeah, Yas Marina is just a track like that. It's not that the drivatars are screwed up there--it's that the data they collect really lends to some crazy stuff there. They're collecting how early we brake, how much we divebomb to get under somebody, etc.
With Yas Marina, it's a bunch of long straights and super-tight corners. That just exacerbates the divebomb effect, because the drivatars are really going to push it late and fly under you. I've noticed the same thing, so I've started to brake early and use crossover moves to get runs on them coming down the next straight. Your only other alternative is to stick low and stay there. They won't cornhole you, so that's a bonus. The only time you're screwed is if you give them room.
Re: Forza 5
I've done the crossover move a lot, but having to give up time in each of the tight corners makes it really tough to get gold on those races. At least there is consistency and a little challenge isn't a bad thing, but it can be frustrating to lose so much time in the first lap or two of a three-lap race.
I'll gladly take the trade-off of one annoying Drivatar track vs. robotic GT-style AI on every track though.
I'll gladly take the trade-off of one annoying Drivatar track vs. robotic GT-style AI on every track though.
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Jimmydeicide
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Re: Forza 5
Lovin' the thoughts on the wheel Terry keep them coming . I so want a wheel when i join next gen. Every where ive read says you couldnt use the other peddle sets so thats more cool news. 
Re: Forza 5
Well, I think they have to be the Thrustmaster sets specifically. I just happened to have the T500RS pedals handy, whereas I know you can't connect ClubSports or anything else to the wheel. Even the power adapter is this proprietary funky connector, with 3 round connectors in a line on the bottom and 1 in the center on the top.
But considering they kept the connector the same for the pedals from the T500RS to the TX gives me hope. I didn't really expect them to work, and yet they did. Doubt anybody else actually tried it, honestly. I'm just one of the idiots who buys every wheel that hits the market, so I have a lot of test parts to use.
But considering they kept the connector the same for the pedals from the T500RS to the TX gives me hope. I didn't really expect them to work, and yet they did. Doubt anybody else actually tried it, honestly. I'm just one of the idiots who buys every wheel that hits the market, so I have a lot of test parts to use.
Re: Forza 5
I had a sick feeling that I was going to come here today and read impressions like thisTCrouch wrote:Bottom line, the FF effects are absolutely top shelf. I don't know if it's the wheel, the XB1, or Forza 5 (or a combination of all 3). But it made the entire game come to life for me last night. I can't wait to hear what you think when you open it, Mix.
You're not making my decision to sit out (temporarily?) XBox One and Forza 5 any easier! You've described the experience in levels of detail that have me jones'n for it really bad now! I can now understand why Shaun Cole and Darin Gangi looked like kids in a candy store while they were playing Forza 5 with it. Seriously, I'm glad to hear that it's that good. I honestly wasn't expecting that big of a step in force feedback steering wheel performance in next-gen consoles and this is a pleasant surprise.That's it... go ahead an pile on! Hard to dismiss what you've said here because deep down I know there's a lot of truth to itAnd Don--it may very well be worth the cost of the console, the wheel, and Forza.
Re: Forza 5
I wondered about that...could you train your Drivatar to be a total d*****? Probably. I think DB tries to do that, because digital DB has swerved into me I don't know how many times down a straight when I had a run on him. Same with HOGZ. I swear his drivatar has some Walking Dead weapons on his vehicle--that guy does NOT LIKE TO BE PASSED, and will use his car as a WMD at any time.
For those who care, I actually gave the Thrustmaster TX a whirl in NASCAR The Game on PC at lunch, to see if the wheel was good everywhere or just on Forza. NTG is notorious for being wheel-unfriendly. It took massive, massive amounts of time to really get a setup that works on both my CSR Elite and T500RS. And I still adjust from track to track...what feels good at Phoenix sucks at Daytona, or Chicago, or Martinsville.
So imagine my surprise when I connected the TX wheel, and of course it wasn't recognized. I had to go in and assign the axis for everything...gas/brake, steering, shifting, etc. I went to the FF and advanced settings, and everything was "default". I figured what the hell, let's see what the baseline is before I pull out what's left of my hair (at this point, I'd have to start pulling my goatee out, I guess).
I hit the track at Kansas, setting it to Qual & Race on Champion level. I hit the track out of pit road, and whoa....it feels really, really good. First corner I can fine tune the line throughout. OK, but I'm only in 2nd gear. Wait until I get into turn 3 at speed. Well....sail through turn 3, even with pretty strong FF by default, it's not "twitchy" or anything like most wheels are with NTG. Coming off of 4, I'm feeling good. I push it down into T1 really hard, to where I know I'm going to have a tough time controlling it. But I catch it, fly off of 2 at mach 5, and 2 corners later I took pole position on my first lap.
Started the race, intentionally started poorly to drop 8 or 10 places, and then picked off cars with ease, putting it everywhere I wanted with steering that just made sense.
So...after my initial tester, I'm willing to say the wheel is just badass no matter where you take it. How it's possible to have it so precise right out of the gates with NTG when nothing else works with it smoothly is beyond me. Really looking forward to testing this on more tracks and games. Because it's been incredible so far.
For those who care, I actually gave the Thrustmaster TX a whirl in NASCAR The Game on PC at lunch, to see if the wheel was good everywhere or just on Forza. NTG is notorious for being wheel-unfriendly. It took massive, massive amounts of time to really get a setup that works on both my CSR Elite and T500RS. And I still adjust from track to track...what feels good at Phoenix sucks at Daytona, or Chicago, or Martinsville.
So imagine my surprise when I connected the TX wheel, and of course it wasn't recognized. I had to go in and assign the axis for everything...gas/brake, steering, shifting, etc. I went to the FF and advanced settings, and everything was "default". I figured what the hell, let's see what the baseline is before I pull out what's left of my hair (at this point, I'd have to start pulling my goatee out, I guess).
I hit the track at Kansas, setting it to Qual & Race on Champion level. I hit the track out of pit road, and whoa....it feels really, really good. First corner I can fine tune the line throughout. OK, but I'm only in 2nd gear. Wait until I get into turn 3 at speed. Well....sail through turn 3, even with pretty strong FF by default, it's not "twitchy" or anything like most wheels are with NTG. Coming off of 4, I'm feeling good. I push it down into T1 really hard, to where I know I'm going to have a tough time controlling it. But I catch it, fly off of 2 at mach 5, and 2 corners later I took pole position on my first lap.
Started the race, intentionally started poorly to drop 8 or 10 places, and then picked off cars with ease, putting it everywhere I wanted with steering that just made sense.
So...after my initial tester, I'm willing to say the wheel is just badass no matter where you take it. How it's possible to have it so precise right out of the gates with NTG when nothing else works with it smoothly is beyond me. Really looking forward to testing this on more tracks and games. Because it's been incredible so far.
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TheTruth
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Re: Forza 5
TCrouch wrote:I wondered about that...could you train your Drivatar to be a total d*****? Probably. I think DB tries to do that, because digital DB has swerved into me I don't know how many times down a straight when I had a run on him. Same with HOGZ. I swear his drivatar has some Walking Dead weapons on his vehicle--that guy does NOT LIKE TO BE PASSED, and will use his car as a WMD at any time.
*evil laugh*Wasn't there suppose to be a patch this week, to lower prices and what not? Have been waiting for that to get more cars with my 3MM gift.
[b]Xbox Live Gamertag:[/b] [color=red]HOGZ TheTruth[/color] Wii: 7256 9991 5571 9701
Re: Forza 5
Yep. It's out now. Can't wait for your combat driving avatar to have all-new weapons!!!
Re: Forza 5
TCrouch wrote:......And Don--it may very well be worth the cost of the console, the wheel, and Forza.
Thanks for all the details Terry. Would you say it beats the Logitech G27, pedals and all? Also, have you tried it out with iRacing yet? I am very close to placing an order. In fact, I may just buy the wheel first for the PC, and then figure out when I may end up buying an Xbox. You are hitting on all my vulnerable points.TCrouch wrote:......So...after my initial tester, I'm willing to say the wheel is just badass no matter where you take it. How it's possible to have it so precise right out of the gates with NTG when nothing else works with it smoothly is beyond me. Really looking forward to testing this on more tracks and games. Because it's been incredible so far.
Re: Forza 5
Never had a G27, I only had a G25, so I can't directly compare.
The pedals that come with the unit are no worse than the typical Logitech pedals when they're mounted, but the entire unit is far flimsier by default. Just looking at the image clearly shows they're closer to Thrustmaster's "crap" pedals that come with the non-FF wheels. But they have a very long throw distance on the pedals and decent spring tension, so they're not bad.
HOWEVER,
I am not using them at all. I'm using my T500RS pedals with the Basher Brake mod in them from http://www.basherboards.com. The default pedals don't even have a clutch, so there's that to worry about.
I also grabbed the Thrustmaster Ferrari GTE rim for touring car stuff, which should be here tomorrow hopefully. I just like the GT-style look a little better, and since the rims can be quick-changed with the connector on the shaft, I'll probably end up with the formula rim before too long.
GT Rim:
Formula Rim:
Pretty cool that you can swap rims and pedals and whatnot with the same wheel base. Also, I haven't been on iRacing in quite some time. I just had to devote way too much time to racing to simply be competitive. I'd still sign up for the one-off league races or poker night setups, but that didn't seem to fly too well. So I've spent my time with offline AI-based games or console games lately.
The pedals that come with the unit are no worse than the typical Logitech pedals when they're mounted, but the entire unit is far flimsier by default. Just looking at the image clearly shows they're closer to Thrustmaster's "crap" pedals that come with the non-FF wheels. But they have a very long throw distance on the pedals and decent spring tension, so they're not bad.
HOWEVER,
I am not using them at all. I'm using my T500RS pedals with the Basher Brake mod in them from http://www.basherboards.com. The default pedals don't even have a clutch, so there's that to worry about.
I also grabbed the Thrustmaster Ferrari GTE rim for touring car stuff, which should be here tomorrow hopefully. I just like the GT-style look a little better, and since the rims can be quick-changed with the connector on the shaft, I'll probably end up with the formula rim before too long.
GT Rim:
Formula Rim:
Pretty cool that you can swap rims and pedals and whatnot with the same wheel base. Also, I haven't been on iRacing in quite some time. I just had to devote way too much time to racing to simply be competitive. I'd still sign up for the one-off league races or poker night setups, but that didn't seem to fly too well. So I've spent my time with offline AI-based games or console games lately.