EA's NFL Head Coach

ExtremeGamer · Post by **ExtremeGamer** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:46 pm

I have no problems playing it on the PS2, plays perfect on it and feels like it was made for it.

ExtremeGamer · Post by **ExtremeGamer** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:48 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:I've put in about 12 hours now and I think it's a fantastic idea that is poorly executed. Bad interface, bad (really bad, actually) AI, strange player progression, too few plays per game thanks to the 5 min rule, next to no penalties, and way too many INTs equals a tough sell for me. That said, you can see that there is a super game buried underneath all the crap. If Head Coach does anything, it proves that a deep text sim (with all of the needed trappings of a good text sim) combined with good graphics *could* be an amazing gaming experience. For me, Head Coach isn't it, though.

It took me 6 hours to even get to a pre-season game, so I have no clue how you've seen all that in your 12 hours of play.

I've only played 2 full games, and with the 5 minute quarters, I had 56 plays, AI had 53. In game 2, I had 51 plays, the AI had 58. I'm not seeing a problem at all.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:50 pm

Well, poop.

I got people whose opinions I respect not liking it, people I respect loving it (especially at OS), and complete indecision over whether to get this or not. I can live with the crap interface (which you get a good taste of in the demo), but wonky AI can spell death for any GM/coaching sim. I think if there was an updated version of FOF I wouldn't even be considering this, but I really have a hankering to play a game like this.

Anyway, thanks for the impressions.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:02 pm

Brando70 wrote:Well, poop.

I got people whose opinions I respect not liking it, people I respect loving it (especially at OS), and complete indecision over whether to get this or not. I can live with the crap interface (which you get a good taste of in the demo), but wonky AI can spell death for any GM/coaching sim. I think if there was an updated version of FOF I wouldn't even be considering this, but I really have a hankering to play a game like this.

Anyway, thanks for the impressions.

Man just try it yourself. Some people seem to never enjoy anything that comes out.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:13 pm

I am looking forward to trying a H2H matchup online tonight.

tcrouch and the raiders are going down!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:20 pm

Brando70 wrote:Well, poop.

I got people whose opinions I respect not liking it, people I respect loving it (especially at OS), and complete indecision over whether to get this or not. I can live with the crap interface (which you get a good taste of in the demo), but wonky AI can spell death for any GM/coaching sim. I think if there was an updated version of FOF I wouldn't even be considering this, but I really have a hankering to play a game like this.

Anyway, thanks for the impressions.

Brando -

I'm annoyed by it, but I still like it. I just don't know how long it will last. I don't have a problem with the 5 minute quarters. The draft AI doesn't bug me too much, I mean how many games ever get that right and it is so subjective a thing. It'sa a lot of fun but more work then it should be if that makes any sense.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:29 pm

"I don't have a problem with the 5 minute quarters."

I could not imagine playing with a longer clock.. accelerated clock maybe, but not a longer one(in real time).

My game last night took me around an hour to complete.

AJColossal · Post by **AJColossal** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:50 pm

For what it's worth, messing around with this game had me eventually doing a double take at the clock, as I couldn't believe the time I spent playing it. I really got immersed in a way that I haven't experienced in a game for a while.

Fun game. Not perfect, but fun game.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:56 pm

ExtremeGamer wrote:It took me 6 hours to even get to a pre-season game...

This actually turns me off. I spend over 40 hours a week at a real job, the last thing I want to do with all my free time is pretending to do another job.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:59 pm

matthewk wrote:
ExtremeGamer wrote:It took me 6 hours to even get to a pre-season game...
This actually turns me off. I spend over 40 hours a week at a real job, the last thing I want to do with all my free time is pretending to do another job.

Just an FYI, you don't have to spend all that time. You can sim right by anything pretty much. It's still a time sucking kind of game, but you can sim by weeks if you want. You can have the scoutng director pick which players to scout if you don't want to. Have one of your coached handle signing the free agents etc.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:35 pm

ExtremeGamer wrote:
Bill_Abner wrote:I've put in about 12 hours now and I think it's a fantastic idea that is poorly executed. Bad interface, bad (really bad, actually) AI, strange player progression, too few plays per game thanks to the 5 min rule, next to no penalties, and way too many INTs equals a tough sell for me. That said, you can see that there is a super game buried underneath all the crap. If Head Coach does anything, it proves that a deep text sim (with all of the needed trappings of a good text sim) combined with good graphics *could* be an amazing gaming experience. For me, Head Coach isn't it, though.
It took me 6 hours to even get to a pre-season game, so I have no clue how you've seen all that in your 12 hours of play.

I've only played 2 full games, and with the 5 minute quarters, I had 56 plays, AI had 53. In game 2, I had 51 plays, the AI had 58. I'm not seeing a problem at all.

It depends on how much you want to skip after you have completed your goals. I dunno how much you need to play to determine that the interface is an ungodly mess, though. I spent six hours last night getting from the start of my coach career to the end of training camp. The other six hours (or so, I wasn't timing it) have been spent playing games.

I get about 90-100 plays per game, which is a little light. Not a huge problem but what is a problem is the way the AI handles the clock. It sees 2 minutes to go like a real team would see the two minute warning. I think the game needs an accelrated clock, personally. The AI in one game tried to take a knee with about :55 to play on its own 20 or so. I called three timeoiuts, got the ball around midfield and scored an easy FG -- all because the AI doesn't realize that 1 minute to go in this game isn't like 1 minute in real football.

I just don't understand why EA would limit it to 5 minutes. Because games would take too long? Well, as you said, it takes hours to get through the preseason, so it would be a deal breaker to add another 15-30 minutes to the actual games to a game that is all about micromanaging? If you want a 5 min game, cool, but why not allow for more if some people want it?

I've only played 4 full games in my time with it. Well, 4 career games and a handful of quick exhibitions so maybe closer to 7 or 8 full games and yeah, I think player progression, penalties, the interface, draft AI, the interception rate, and the playcalling AI needs a lot of work. If you're happy with it, enjoy. I think the game is more potential than payoff right now.

I took the Browns and by the time I was done with training camp most of my starters went from being rated in the 50s, 60s, and 70s to being mid to high 80s to low 90s. I have a DB Coach with an *11* overall rating because I screwed up the coach hiring at the start of the game and you can't go back and redo it. It doesn't seem to matter though as my entire secondary improved dramatically during camp and is playing like the '86 Browns rather than the 2006 version.

Trent Dilfer went from a 56 OVR to an 87. Trent Dilfer. And his progression was pretty much par for the course for my team.

Penalities? I see maybe 2 per game. Most of the ones I see are clipping calls on running plays. I did see a defensive offsides today, though (the game's only call). Again, it's only an 8 game sample but how many games do I need to play until it's pretty obvious that it's a tad screwy? Same with interceptions. After 8 or so games and about 7-8 INTs per game, is that enough time spent to say that something's amiss? It's one thing is it's MY team. Maybe I'm not calling the plays we practiced in camp? Maybe I need to tell my QB to stop forcing it (I tried that..) but the CPU throws as many as I do. Four INTs per game in a 5 minute period game is a helluva lot of picks.

Even though I think its problems are pretty serious, there's a lot to like. I love how we finally have more player ratings, for one. Short, medium and long passing accuracy is something that is long overdue. Same with ratings in different types of coverage as well as DB pressing and WR route running and avoiding the jam. Great, great stuff. I just think it's a shame that EA went in this direction, to create a game like this, and added all these cool tidbits and screwed up on a lot of the basics.

BTW, has anyone seen a punt return yet? All I get are fair catches.
And I'd still like to know why the AI keeps starters in the entire game during the preseason, and how I can make a global substitution to bring in my second team. Can I do this?

ACK!! Holy s***. Tornado warning just came on the TV. Um...yeah. Later guys.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:03 pm

I actually spent about 10 minutes playing this yesterday at Ebgames and that was enough for me to decide that I just don't have the time nor the patience to play this game. I'm just gonna get NCAA or Madden.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:41 pm

Bill_Abner wrote: Trent Dilfer went from a 56 OVR to an 87. Trent Dilfer. And his progression was pretty much par for the course for my team.

Bill I'm not saying that player progreession isn't wonky, but you do realize it is a rolling number right. So a guy has a 52-87 range overall and that changes based on how he practices, how he performs in the game and what not. I haven't looked close enough to see if it is well balanced, based on what you saw probably not. But I know that my "goal" for training camp was to get all my starters up to 100% of their potential. So maybe that is what happens with everyone and then it declines during the year?

Penalities? I see maybe 2 per game. Most of the ones I see are clipping calls on running plays. I did see a defensive offsides today, though (the game's only call). Again, it's only an 8 game sample but how many games do I need to play until it's pretty obvious that it's a tad screwy?

I've only played 3 games, but I have averaged 4 calls a game. Most have been offensive holding or PI calls. Is that enough for 5 minute quarters, I don't know.

BTW, has anyone seen a punt return yet? All I get are fair catches.

Yes I saw one today for 56 yards, until that point all fair catches.

And I'd still like to know why the AI keeps starters in the entire game during the preseason, and how I can make a global substitution to bring in my second team. Can I do this?

Starters staying in all game is stupid, and their is no gloabl subs button which is also stupid as hell.

ACK!! Holy s***. Tornado warning just came on the TV. Um...yeah. Later guys.

Duck!

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:36 pm

I took Vince Young with the 7th overall choice in Oakland in my career. I worked him in training camp, trying to change him into Joe Montana.

Work the center of the field. Release the ball quickly. Spread the ball around. Stay in the pocket. Focus on the short routes.

Young's response?

a 3.8 rating and 39 yards in a full game of action.

Naturally, my coaching staff is furious with me, as I established a 20-0 lead early on the running of Joseph Addai and Young's legs; not a pass was completed until he got a dumpoff in garbage time in the first half.

I got to thinking, wondering how realistic it might be. I know only what the talking heads said about the Longhorns offense, but I decided to drill it into his head during the week and pregame, seeing how it would work out:

Focus on your #1 receiver. Release the ball quickly. Scramble if you feel pressure. Put touch on the ball. I turned the Raiders' offense into a 1-read spread style offense. Send the receivers deep, tell him who his primary read is and then snap the ball.

After the 3.8, 39 yard debacle in the opening game? 16 of 30, 253 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 0 sacks, and a 92.8 rating.

He also carried it 6 times; 4 to move the chains in a desperate situation, and 2 for scores.

If it's an incredible dose of luck, color me impressed. I try to make cyber-Vince into something he's not, and it has me getting chewed out. I try and coach him like I know he was accustomed to at Texas, and he flourishes (his accuracy short is like 87, medium is 81, and long is 76, by the way).

I went so far as to call HB dives on 1st down a lot, then a flea flicker in the 3rd: 40 yard completion. I also called a flea flicker QB scramble from the 20 (called the flea flicker but told Vince to scramble on the next play) and it went for a score.

The more I call the plays on gameday, the more I'm amazed...say what you want about it. If you can use real-world knowledge and apply it to what you know about a cyber athlete and get results, that's impressive as hell.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:14 pm

Woo hoo tornado avoided.

Anyway, yeah, I agree with you. There are things in the game that have really surprised me. For instace, the WR ratings. When I ask a receiver who runs bad routes to run a complex hitch and go, he runs it like a guy who runs really awful patterns.

In Training Camp, when I put a 3rd string CB up against Braylon, he makes the CB look like a fool. Ask Dilfer to throw a deep ball and who KNOWS where it's going to go. There is clearly a level of detail in HC that no other EA football game (outside of the year they pubbed FoF) has ever seen.

I guess that's why I am so frustrated by it. I see all these cool little nuances and then I see what the Eagles did this morning:

Browns 17 Eagles 14, :55 secs to go, Philly at midfield w/o any timeouts. They call a run. Hmm, ok, maybe trying to catch me off guard? No gain. They come back, call a toss sweep to Westbrook, who gets 5 and stays in bounds. :20 some secs to go, they run a HB screen for 4 yards. 4th and 1 at the Browns 41 with about :08 to play and they finally call a deep pass, which is picked off.

Stuff like this can just ruin a game for me.

I guess I just wish the game got more of the basics down first and then concentrated on the minutiae, ya know? Because this thing is like tying up Bugs Bunny and dangling carrots in front of his face.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:31 pm

Thanks for the impressions guys. I'm looking forward to getting this over the weekend.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:04 pm

Terry,

Any tips on how you are doing scouting and signing. It's a bit tedious.

I don't know I guess I should put more time with the game but I'm not feeling it. I would rather play FM then HC.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:02 am

JRod wrote:Terry,

Any tips on how you are doing scouting and signing. It's a bit tedious.

I don't know I guess I should put more time with the game but I'm not feeling it. I would rather play FM then HC.

Seems pretty good game myself...Yes, It can be tedious but I expected that but it can be simulated too!!!

I just played online and was up 35-0 at halftime and the guy quit...It was my first game too!!!

Pay attention before you call plays online and you will do fine...It tells you when they are going to be in punt formation.

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:19 am

rowns 17 Eagles 14, :55 secs to go, Philly at midfield w/o any timeouts. They call a run. Hmm, ok, maybe trying to catch me off guard? No gain. They come back, call a toss sweep to Westbrook, who gets 5 and stays in bounds. :20 some secs to go, they run a HB screen for 4 yards. 4th and 1 at the Browns 41 with about :08 to play and they finally call a deep pass, which is picked off.

Thanks for showing the AI component of the game. I really wanted to love this game, but am having serious doubts now if AI isn't right. IMO, if you are going to commit so much time tinkering with the management part of the game then you should get some reward when game day comes into play.

I do tip my hat off to EA for trying something new though. Not a fanboy of EA...DAOC player so those who understand my concern will understand, but I am encourgaed that they did take some sort of risk and came out with this game. Question will be if they listen to the community to make the game better or just ditch it. I do think, even after playing the demo that there is a lot of potential for a nice little nifty game.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:31 am

azmark wrote:
Thanks for showing the AI component of the game.

Well, it doesn't do this every game. That's what's strange. A game tonight against the Ravens the AI tried furiously to score on a final drive, which ended in Boller's 5th pick of the game, but alas...

But in other games it just plain goes to sleep, calling bizarre plays in crucial situations. And God forbid I listen to my OC. Maybe that's it? Maybe these other teams have OCs that are complete idiots? I know my guy wants to run at the most insane times, but I can override him. I guess the AI doesn't have that luxury? It's such a hit and miss game. Still..I keep playing the darn thing because when it does work it really is a lot of fun. But man I wish I could get the AI to stop throwing so many picks!

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:04 am

Any chance EA releases a patch for the consoles to fix the issues that you guys are having?

nyisles16 · Post by **nyisles16** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:50 am

the headset play calling is odd to say the least.. i can call defensive plays ok, but offense is another story.. each time i go to call a play, it keeps flopping me around my playbook.. dunno

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:17 am

Played my first online game last night and I can say it was hella fun.

Played the Raiders vs Falcons(I was the Falcons).... Vick put on a show on the ground and in the air(okay, so it wasn't oober realistic). Brooks played like well Brooks.... throwing picks, fumbling ect. He did have his spots. Late in the game he hit Moss downfield for a long gain.

I need to look at my online settings as the stats were not emailed to me(not even sure if it does this).

I think the final score was 39-19(Falcons).

BD

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:08 am

I did double duty last night with HC and FM.

First off the work tasks system is going to turn off a lot of people. It's overly tidous but if you sim through it it makes the game go fast.

Training Camp - I like it. It's a lot of fun and much more helpful than Madden's drills.

Guy's that how far I got in two days. It doesn't help that I'm playing FM at the same time and have Newcastle on a 7 game unbeaten streak. (Not realistic, I know).

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:45 am

FYI - for anyone that plays online. DO NOT let the game lose focus or you will get booted. If you alt-tab out of full, screen you will get booted. If you click on something in the background while playing in windowed mode, you will get booted.

I hope they fix this.