Gretzky NHL 2005

[ScoopBrady]

Wow, I'm glad you did such an about face with this one and gave it a little more time Ohio. I haven't had a chance to play in 4 days now since I'm still in Tennessee (Da Bears!) so I'm really jonesing for some play time. As you know I was impressed with my few days with the game but still felt that ESPN was the better game. I'm looking forward to getting more time in with it to see if it surpasses ESPN for me as well.

[Jimmydeicide]

How are the shots on net, too many too few? Can you adjust time of periods? How is passing...too crisp? Is there a franchise mode and is it decent? Can you play a good defensive game or is it geared to offense? That new slapshot aiming sounds interesting, work well? Is there major penalties ? (Non-fighting) How are the fights? How is the PP portrayed, does it feel like one? Can you make/edit players?

Grog there are too many shots but its kept down with solid non aggressive play and your offensive zone time,which on all levels will probly be in your favour.

ive only rented and dont have a manual but i dont see a way to get anything other than.2,3,4, 5,10,20.

Passing is crisp but not every time and you cant realy hit emptyspots on the ice it usually trys to find the closest player.

Havnt dabbled in franchise much ,but it looks similar too the baseball.
On 5 mins its about right for you Grog its a little longer than 2k5 i think.

Ive had no fights yet and no majors in a total of about 20 games.

I dont feel its as good as bucknuts is making it out cos its a little too simple for this day and age of hockey games. Its a good game ,i feel the speed could go lower than the lowest they give, makes defense a little hectic.

I would like to try online with a couple of sim players could be solid.
All in all a great effort, hope they keep the game going cos it has rivals potential,it has that feel a croos between Hitzpro on sim and rivals. Im enjoying it.
Gve it a rent lads,once you get past the puck triangle and little things that make it different its good stuff.
Ive seen some realy cool stuff, like tha ai picked a deflected puck outa the air off the glass,dropped it to his stick and in the same move wraped around short side Goal! it was awsome. i havnt seen it since tho so its not one of those happens every game deals. In the same game the ai was on a breakout and the left winger just wound up from the top of the faceoff circleand it went in off the post short side,it was a blast and looked realy realistic,very fun.
I would give it a fair shake lads.

[ScoopBrady]

Jimmy,
Fights don't happen automatically, you have to initiate them. When players are ready to go you will see the word fight appear on the bottom of the screen and you have to press the d-pad to drop the gloves. Glad to hear you like the game. I think you really hit it on the head with the Hitz Pro and Rivals analogy.

[Jimmydeicide]

yes i just realized that about fights on a game just before i posted, but didnt react or care to even try the fight lol.

Please explain the hard dump again i cant do it, cos its just a rental, whats the manual say.?

[bucknuts]

yes i just realized that about fights on a game just before i posted, but didnt react or care to even try the fight lol.

Please explain the hard dump again i cant do it, cos its just a rental, whats the manual say.?

Can you do a hard dump? I didn't think you could.

[bucknuts]

Wow, I'm glad you did such an about face with this one and gave it a little more time Ohio. I haven't had a chance to play in 4 days now since I'm still in Tennessee (Da Bears!) so I'm really jonesing for some play time. As you know I was impressed with my few days with the game but still felt that ESPN was the better game. I'm looking forward to getting more time in with it to see if it surpasses ESPN for me as well.

Yeah like I mentioned. I had a built in 989 bias that prevented me from being as objective as I could have. Also, I went to the traditional camera view after reading your post and it made a 100% difference for me. Really enjoying this game. Got to hand it to 989, with MLB and now Gretzky, it looks like they have really turned things around.

[Jimmydeicide]

Scoop,

How's the sound and atmosphere? Does the crowd react appropriately and get louder during sustained attacks, etc.?

Thanks!

Yes the crowd does,it escalates as you sustain pressure and string chances together,and the pace quickens,its pretty good.

[Rob81Lakes]

How is the opponent AI? Bettor or worse than ESPN?

[TRI]

How is the opponent AI? Bettor or worse than ESPN?

Some people are getting 120 shots on goal with 10 minute periods and there is very little defense in the game: no stick tie ups, no intense contact controls, no grabbing, no board pinning etc. It is very limited defensive wise and a offense shootout results. One positive though is the offensive AI which is less predictable than other prior 989 hockey games. It is NOT a bad first effort but it still needs a lot more depth and refinement. It is better than NHL 2005 for sure, but definitely not better than ESPN NHL 2K5 IMHO ESPN NHL 2K5 is the new standard in video gaming hockey IMHO.

[ScoopBrady]

This is a game you have to learn how to play. It is limited in defensive controls compared to the other games out there and really emphasizes defensive positioning more than anything else. It also emphasizes quick line changes as well. If you leave your guys on the ice too long they will get blown right by. You can use the poke check button (triangle) to slash and hook if the puck carrier beats you. You can also slide to block shots. I've been playing this game at 4-5 minute periods and it seems perfect to me as far as how long games are taking and shots on goal. I just played a game where I had 25 shots and the cpu had 23. There's a definite adjustment to be made on this game.

[JRod]

One thing I wish hockey games did a better job of is making players have to look for good shots. Instead of forcing you to look for good shots in order keep the shot totals low.

If you fire every time you cross the line you should get a big fat 0 in the goal column because that's just bad offense.

I think ESPN does a better job than most of making it more difficult to get the puch out of mid-ice but no where near where it needs to be.

Anyway, what it sounds like with Gretzky hockey is that you do have to look for good shots not out of necessity but rather to keep the shots low. Sort of like a house rule. It sounds like this but what do I know.

[bucknuts]

This is a game you have to learn how to play. It is limited in defensive controls compared to the other games out there and really emphasizes defensive positioning more than anything else. It also emphasizes quick line changes as well. If you leave your guys on the ice too long they will get blown right by. You can use the poke check button (triangle) to slash and hook if the puck carrier beats you. You can also slide to block shots. I've been playing this game at 4-5 minute periods and it seems perfect to me as far as how long games are taking and shots on goal. I just played a game where I had 25 shots and the cpu had 23. There's a definite adjustment to be made on this game.

Scoop,

I couldn't agree more. This game does play differently, I think better in a lot of ways, than other hockey games and an adjustment period is definately needed. Position is crucial in this game and you can hook, slash, poke, etc it just depends on the postion of your player determining what happens. If you are out of postion and a slash occurs you have a greater chance of receiving a penalty. I really like how they implented this system. It works very well.

I agree about line changes as well. You need to play smart hockey or you will get caught in an odd man rush and IMHO no hockey game has ever recreated the excitement and flow of an odd man rush better than this.

There is definately more to this game than initially meets the eye. If you play long enough you will notice some really neat AI.

As far as shots go I'm anywhere between 27-40 shots with 5 minute periods. You can rack up shots in any hockey game if you run and gun. Playing the dump and chase in Gretzky is done extremely well.

bucknuts

[bucknuts]

How is the opponent AI? Bettor or worse than ESPN?

I think the AI is better. That's just my opinion. Especially on offense. Both your players and the AI players do a lot better job of recreating the actual stratedgies.

Also I've seen offensive defenseman pinch when they get an opening. I've also seen them give up an odd man rush because they did so. It's a risk reward thing and I like it. Defensemen also bang shots on goal in this game. Also, on PP the AI will send it back to the Defensemen for a big slapshot.

Another very cool thing I've noticed with the AI is how a D-man will jump into a play and help create an odd man rush or take it from a 2 on 1 to a 3 on 1 situation if the D-man has good enough offensive skills.

3 on 1's really seem like a big advantage as well in this game because of the icon passing system. You no longer have the frustration of the puck always being passed to the wrong guy blowing your scoring chance

bucknuts

[Rob81Lakes]

Well, after literally 5 minutes with the game, I've found a potential game killing problem. They butchered the crease rule. Frolov had a breakaway goal called off because his skate entered the crease. Nobody else, just the puck carrier. WTF?

Does anyone know if Penalty Bias affects crease calls?

[ScoopBrady]

I have yet to see that happen Rob. That sucks if it's not a fluke thing.

[Granatofan]

Rob,

I had the same thing happen to me only I was on defense. I think this one is a real mixed bag. I like it better than ESPN, but it doesn't necessarily play better hockey.

I'm playing on Pro (level 2 of 4) and after about 20 games here are my limited impressions.....

I think this game recreates the acceleration and speed of hockey better than any game to date. I play with the speed all the way down and after getting used to it I noticed that it really models momentum nicely. When you are stopped it will take some time to get up to full speed. Once you are at full speed you can really become dangerous with the puck and make it hard for defenders to stop you. The same is true when you are on defense. If you can slow the other team down you have a better chance of making good checks, but if they have a head of steam and catch you on your heels then you are in trouble.

This is the first hockey game where I have seen the computer AI opposition regroup like a real hockey game when it cannot gain the attacking zone. The first time it happened I had one of those "amazing video game moments". Basically if the computer is offside or if they get tied up in the neutral zone you will see the forwards pass back to the defensemen in the defensive zone and everyone will skate and reposition for the next attempted rush.

Also, I have seen defensemen wrap it back around their own boards and passing it behind their own net to start the breakout.

The defensemen do a good job of standing up the rushing forwards with the puck allowing the puck to go into the corner to be picked up by a teammate. Also, I am very impressed that I never have to battle with a teammate for a puck in the corner. In Gretzky your teammate defenseman will wait on the far side of the net or boards while you retrieve the puck on your side and then set up for a cross pass to help with the breakout.

While the AI plays a challenging game and mixes things up with passing, dumping, and stick handling, they aren't really playing NHL hockey. The defesemen pinch way to often and way to deep. They continually move into the winger slots (ala Hitz Pro) forcing the wingers to drop back (which is why the AI plays so effectively). I have seen defensemen get far too many breakaways (every game). I have seen one play in particular that is infuriating to watch because it would NEVER happen. CPU goaltender gloves the puck. I am covering him with my forward to freeze the puck. CPU defenseman races up to center ice and then CPU goalie drops the puck to his stick and passes (while he is covered by me and another forward sometimes) to the breaking defenseman who then goes 1 on 1 with the other goalie. I see this EVERY game now and it is a major flaw.

Also, the defensive defensemen stick handle and deke way to much in traffic trying to work from the slot to the net while entering the zone. Adam Foote is not Paul Kariya, but he sure acts like it in this game.

Also, the goalies properly deflect pucks into the corners with their blocker and with their stick when they can't get good control of the puck instead of everything they cannot handle being a rebound. I think Hrudey32 would really appreciate the goaltender AI in this regard. The goalies also follow the puck with their heads and you can see them lose sight of the puck in traffic and adjust late to give up a rebound.

The goalie animations are pretty limited and most of the saves are butterfly with the occasional flop when things get frantic. This part of the game is merely serviceable. There is also an animation anomaly where it appears the goalie misses gloving the puck and it is a few inches below his trapper and then the puck sucks into the trapper.

The graphics are very good and comparable to MLB 2005. But what really sets the presentation apart is the sound. This is the best on ice sound I've ever heard and the crowd beats anything that has come before except for maybe (Hitz Pro), although the crowd is still not great. They do react appropriately and will keep getting louder and louder as you or your opponent put shot after shot on goal. They chant goaltender names and at appropriate times (big saves, or pulled goaltender at the other end) and there is decent music effects during stoppages. The play by play is serviceable, but this is better than Thorne and Clement to me. (Sorry, but I think ESPN's presentation sucks, sucks, and sucks some more from top to bottom).

There is good goal variety and I've scored on one timers, slappers, garbage, rebounds, and breakaways. I've only been scored against with one timers, rebounds, and breakaways. I have not seen a deflection from a player's stick, but I have seen one go off a player's arm and score. I never see a player attempt a deflection.

Puck physics are from two years ago. Basically the puck is flat until it hits the goalie, a post, or the back of the net. Then it will tumble, but not before.

There is not board pinning and no stick tie ups and you need perfect positioning to play good defense. The checking animations are very tied to where you are in relation to the puck carrier and it can be very tough to stop them. I find I have to rely a great deal on my teammates and let them do the checking for me since I am having a lot of trouble with this. The good news is that they are effective at their jobs.

The fighting is simplistic, but it is up close and personal with the ability to block and punch. You choose when to drop the gloves after a screen overlay lets you know that one of your players is ready to go when you are.

I have seen elbowing, slashing, boarding, cross checking, and interference penalties. Oddly, I have not seen hooking or tripping or roughing. Unfortunately the penalty calling seems arbitrary at this point because every check looks illegal when executed so you never know when you are gonna get called.

I don't think the game can generate realistic stats on anything, but 5 minute periods, but this is ok with me.

Fatigue is modelled very well and leaving players out too long really is detrimental to your defense. Ice time for players is also right on with first defensive paring getting 26 to 30 minutes and top forwards getting anywhere from 21 to 30 minutes. Fourth lines always play and I see ice times from 3 minutes to 11 minutes per game. In short, everyone plays and they play appropriately. That being said if you leave line changes on automatic the CPU will sometimes take too long to call a change. I don't know if it is managing ice time or not, but it has gotten me into trouble. I am now playing with initiated changes which means I pick when to change and the CPU picks the line. You can also have full control over line changes.

There are the same strategies that you see in ESPN and you can set them up before the game or on the fly. You cannot set strategies for individual lines, they are global.

I've got this one on game pass and I'll hold onto it for a bit more. I've had ups and downs with the game, but for the most part it is enjoyable. In short I think ESPN plays a good game of hockey, but is as dry as a bone and not much fun to play. Gretzky plays a challenging, if unusual, game of hockey and is fun to play once you get used to its quirks.

Ted

[Granatofan]

If anyone wants to try the online I'm up for a go.

Ted

Also forgot to mention that AI with the goalie pulled is horrible. It is an automatic empty net goal for the other side whether it is you or the CPU pulling the goalie.

[Rob81Lakes]

I had the same thing happen to me only I was on defense.

Ted

I was playing D too. Maybe it is a CPU AI only problem.

Great impressions. I plan to give it some more time, at least long enough to get use to the shoot button being in the wrong place.

[bucknuts]

"Granatofan"

"While the AI plays a challenging game and mixes things up with passing, dumping, and stick handling, they aren't really playing NHL hockey. The defesemen pinch way to often and way to deep. They continually move into the winger slots (ala Hitz Pro) forcing the wingers to drop back (which is why the AI plays so effectively)."

I see this but not to the extreme that you are seeing it happen. It happens to me with Souray who is ranked very high in the offensive categories like in real life and he does pinch but not all the time. I like the fact that he does so because it represents the risk/reward scenario that takes place in real hockey with Offesive minded D-men and when he pinches I've seen him give up odd man rushes the other way for the AI which I like.

"I have seen defensemen get far too many breakaways (every game). I have seen one play in particular that is infuriating to watch because it would NEVER happen. CPU goaltender gloves the puck. I am covering him with my forward to freeze the puck. CPU defenseman races up to center ice and then CPU goalie drops the puck to his stick and passes (while he is covered by me and another forward sometimes) to the breaking defenseman who then goes 1 on 1 with the other goalie. I see this EVERY game now and it is a major flaw."

Wow, I've been playing this game for awhile and haven't had this situation with breakawys happen enough to be a problem. Like I've mentioned in other posts I've seen Souray who is rated high on Offense and who has great speed jump into a play and help create an odd man rush but he doesn't do it all the time and none of my other D-men play this way. I'm really surprised by the last comment concerning the goalies not covering and passing out because I can honestly say that I've never witnessed this at all before. If anything I've thought the AI to be almost too conservative at times when it comes to the goalie covering the puck. I'm seeing the goalie cover probably 90% of the time at least and this is no exaggeration. Don't know what to tell you about that problem.

"Also, the defensive defensemen stick handle and deke way to much in traffic trying to work from the slot to the net while entering the zone. Adam Foote is not Paul Kariya, but he sure acts like it in this game."

Haven't seen this either but I will watch more closely now that you brought it up. It could be happening without me noticing it.

"There is good goal variety and I've scored on one timers, slappers, garbage, rebounds, and breakaways. I've only been scored against with one timers, rebounds, and breakaways. I have not seen a deflection from a player's stick, but I have seen one go off a player's arm and score. I never see a player attempt a deflection."

The AI has scored on me with wristers and slapshots. Not a ton but enough to keep things intersting. I haven't seen any deflections either.

"Puck physics are from two years ago. Basically the puck is flat until it hits the goalie, a post, or the back of the net. Then it will tumble, but not before."

I'm happy you brought this up because it reminded me of one of the neatest things I've ever seen in a hockey game that I saw last nite. Replayed it like 20 times. The AI took a big slapper that looked like my goalie should have saved, but when I went to the instant replay in slow motion it showed the puck knuckle and then dive when it got to the goalie and it went right under his glove. Don't know if that was a fluke or actual code but it was wild to see happen.

"I have seen elbowing, slashing, boarding, cross checking, and interference penalties. Oddly, I have not seen hooking or tripping or roughing. Unfortunately the penalty calling seems arbitrary at this point because every check looks illegal when executed so you never know when you are gonna get called. "

I don't recall seeing a PP where a team is 2 men down either. Has anyone seen this?


"I've got this one on game pass and I'll hold onto it for a bit more. I've had ups and downs with the game, but for the most part it is enjoyable. In short I think ESPN plays a good game of hockey, but is as dry as a bone and not much fun to play. Gretzky plays a challenging, if unusual, game of hockey and is fun to play once you get used to its quirks."

I'm liking it a lot better than ESPN because ESPN just gets stale to me very quickly because of the lack of variety and atmosphere.

bucknots

[Granatofan]

..........

I don't recall seeing a PP where a team is 2 men down either. Has anyone seen this?

...........

I'm liking it a lot better than ESPN because ESPN just gets stale to me very quickly because of the lack of variety and atmosphere.

bucknots

I've been down 2 men and up 2 men on PP's and I see 4 on 4 play occasionally. I'm with you on ESPN. Stale. Gretzky has a nice presentation.

I played another game last night and for the first time the defenseman didn't do the breakaway pass from the goalie thing. It is the stupidest thing you will see and cannot be missed. The dman literally sprints from net to center ice and takes the pass and is off to the races....

I continue to see the goalie make some "human" passes (the kind you see in online games). However I am noticing that it mostly occurs late in the game when the CPU is behind.

I forgot to mention that the basic passing controls can be frustrating. There have been times when I have passed left only for the pass to go to the forward on my right instead. A complete 180 degree miss? Doesn't happen often, but there are passes every game that leave me scratching my head. I need to get the hang of icon passing and try that out.

New irritating game flaw came up. I had a faceoff deep in the attacking zone with 1.87 seconds left in the first period. I pulled my goaltender for the extra attacker which is a common and acceptable tactic. Won the faceoff, but didn't score...time expired. Started the new period and my goalie was still pulled! Went to the menu and couldn't replace him before the faceoff because it was grayed out. Of course they got the easy goal before I could put the goalie back in net. Argg. Still got the win over Calgary 4-2 so I flipped them the bird and went to bed.

Ted

[bucknuts]

..........

I don't recall seeing a PP where a team is 2 men down either. Has anyone seen this?

...........

I'm liking it a lot better than ESPN because ESPN just gets stale to me very quickly because of the lack of variety and atmosphere.

bucknots

I've been down 2 men and up 2 men on PP's and I see 4 on 4 play occasionally. I'm with you on ESPN. Stale. Gretzky has a nice presentation.

I played another game last night and for the first time the defenseman didn't do the breakaway pass from the goalie thing. It is the stupidest thing you will see and cannot be missed. The dman literally sprints from net to center ice and takes the pass and is off to the races....

I continue to see the goalie make some "human" passes (the kind you see in online games). However I am noticing that it mostly occurs late in the game when the CPU is behind.

I forgot to mention that the basic passing controls can be frustrating. There have been times when I have passed left only for the pass to go to the forward on my right instead. A complete 180 degree miss? Doesn't happen often, but there are passes every game that leave me scratching my head. I need to get the hang of icon passing and try that out.

New irritating game flaw came up. I had a faceoff deep in the attacking zone with 1.87 seconds left in the first period. I pulled my goaltender for the extra attacker which is a common and acceptable tactic. Won the faceoff, but didn't score...time expired. Started the new period and my goalie was still pulled! Went to the menu and couldn't replace him before the faceoff because it was grayed out. Of course they got the easy goal before I could put the goalie back in net. Argg. Still got the win over Calgary 4-2 so I flipped them the bird and went to bed.

Granatofan,

I finally saw the goalie make some passes. It was late in the game and they were behind like you mentioned. I think they were trying to get the puck up ice as quickly as possible to get a scoring chance.

Passing has been good for me. Once you get the hang of the icon passing it really makes 3 on 1 odd man rushes feel like they should because you can send the puck to the man you actually want to receive it. I've had problems with the other games in this regard. Icon passing fixes this and is great on the PP as well.

I've been playing mostly on PRO but ramped it up to Veteran for a couple of games last nite. It's a pretty good size jump from what I saw. The computer AI can be relentless putting the puck on net. I also saw them score more on slapshots and wristers in the couple of games I tried. What level are you playing on?

bucknuts
veTed

[Granatofan]

Playing on Pro

[Granatofan]

Just noticed that the water bottle flys off the net once in awhile. Players can lose helmets with checks and they lay on the ice until the next whistle. I also saw my first broken glass. It occured when I drilled a Duck after the whistle....very satisfying. Players can also be checked over the boards. While none of these are game makers, they are nice touches.

Ted

[bucknuts]

Just noticed that the water bottle flys off the net once in awhile. Players can lose helmets with checks and they lay on the ice until the next whistle. I also saw my first broken glass. It occured when I drilled a Duck after the whistle....very satisfying. Players can also be checked over the boards. While none of these are game makers, they are nice touches.

Ted

I agree. They are nice touches. Gretzky has a lot of these types of things that you only see every so often. This stuff really adds to the atmosphere along with national anthems, stadium scoring lighting effects, real coaches, 3 stars intros, opening game fog and finally a loud PA announcer calling out scoring info that you can actually hear.

I'm liking this game more and more the longer I play it.

[Granatofan]

Same here. I didn't like it much the first 5 games. The next 10 were so so and now I am really enjoying the games. I think a lot has to do with the defensive learning curve and the switched shot and deke buttons. When I score I get excited like scoring in WE. I never get excited about the scoring in ESPN

And agree about the anthems. It's good to see them back in a hockey game.


Finally started a franchise and opened up with a 2-0 win against the Avs and a 4-3 win against my next opponent (forget now). Then to the Pond where the Ducks shellacked me 6-3 and back home to face the Ducks. I fell behind 2-0 in first period and tied it 2-2 by end of 2. Lost it in the final 10 seconds of the game 3-2. Groooaaaaannnnnnn.

Seen any injuries yet? And if so how are they handled? I'm seeing injury reports in the franchise news, but none in any of my 4 franchise games and I have yet to see any in about 20 exhibitions.

Ted