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skidmark · Post by **skidmark** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:06 pm

That's the whole point whether it is the speed rush or some other game flaw. Obviously, eliminating it entirely can seem like a cheap ploy to cater to those who can't handle qb pressure. On the other hand, playing the entire game sprinting away from John Engleberger isn't exactly realistic either. You just got to come to a realization of whether or not your game is based upon exploiting a game flaw. If you notice that you are, then you need to back off of it and find another way to play straight up... you are ruining the fun if you don't. Its always gray because somethings are definitely counterable and you can legitimize it because the other player just didn't play his counter well. Speed rushing DE's can be way too dominant. Forcing the other player to scramble outside with his qb every passing down (which are also limited only to certain types of passing plays that allow them to get off the ball very quickly) is exploiting a game flaw.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:06 pm

I think calling the guy a douchbag is a bit much DB.

He isn't cheating, per se, it's more the game's fault than it is his. I understand, though. After the game against GB I wanted to bite through a nail mainly because I felt I was the better player aside from the fact that he was living in my backfield.

And hey look at the poll; only 58% want to adopt a no DL control rule. That's not enough to change it and if you let guys control a DL it's impossible to say, "Ok, you can control a DE... just don't rush with him." I do agree with BK though, when you are THAT good at rushing with the DE, I dunno how that's fun. I mean I rush with Courtney Brown but I don't get near the pressure he gets with Gbaja-Biamila. I also try several different moves with Brown, even if I find something that "works".

As for non DSP'ers, we have a several in the league that are 100% legit players. In fact, the only player who keeps coming up is the guy in Green Bay solely because he has that inside rush down pat.

Dan mentioned his earlier games being shitty because of the players.
Well, the Philly owner is gone and the San Diego owner is gone. If they cheese and play Dan, they quit. LOL

I like the group that we have now; I just wish we could do something about that rush, but like Sean said, you can counter it if you know it's coming. Sometimes.

Lastly, it sure looks like Rob is hurting bigtime after losing Manning...ahem.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:10 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:I think calling the guy a douchbag is a bit much DB.

I wasn't just calling HIM a d*uchbag, I was calling all the guys who pull that crap a d*uchbag. Notice how it's relegated to guys that either aren't in the league anymore or guys who aren't on this site? What does that tell you?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:14 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Bill_Abner wrote:I think calling the guy a douchbag is a bit much DB.
I wasn't just calling HIM a d*uchbag, I was calling all the guys who pull that crap a d*uchbag. Notice how it's relegated to guys that either aren't in the league anymore or guys who aren't on this site? What does that tell you?

Obviously the people that post here aren't going to do that because:

A: I get the feeling they're a bit older
B: They would get verbally assaulted by everyone else

And I agree that doing that could be considered douchebaggery, which is why I introduced a rule to nix it. But not enough agree. Maybe everyone that voted no should play Green Bay?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:16 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:Obviously the people that post here aren't going to do that because:

A: I get the feeling they're a bit older
B: They would get verbally assaulted by everyone else

Which is exactly why I said:

Next time, create a league with less players, and make sure they are all from DSP so we can chastize them if they cheese like crazy.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:19 pm

Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?

I will say this, after taking over the Falcons I have exactly zero rushing attempts with Vick, but if someone is going to cheese rush me then I don' t want to hear any complaints when I start to let Vick loose.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:29 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Bill_Abner wrote:Obviously the people that post here aren't going to do that because:

A: I get the feeling they're a bit older
B: They would get verbally assaulted by everyone else
Which is exactly why I said:

Next time, create a league with less players, and make sure they are all from DSP so we can chastize them if they cheese like crazy.

But I don't agree with that; right now we have one guy that is causing a ruckus. (wow I said ruckus..what am I 50?) Of the 32 teams in the league only 18 are regular DSP posters. (from what i can tell) We have weeded out the bad seeds. The guy in GB is nowhere NEAR the dickface as the guys who used to run Washington and Atlanta. I "spoke" with the GB guy after the game via the messenger for about 10 mins. He was very cool about the game even thiough he could tell I was not happy about the sacks.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:32 pm

He was so cool about it, he continued to do it all game long against me even when he knows that it's boarderline cheese?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:00 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:He was so cool about it, he continued to do it all game long against me even when he knows that it's boarderline cheese?

Borderline cheese? DB it's either a legal move or it isn't. Believe me man I can relate--I played the guy too and he did the same thing to me. The guy isn't cheating. He isn't cheesing because we can't pass a rule to forbid it. You cant tell a guy that its OK to control a DE but that he cant manually pass rush with him. That's over regulating the game. I see his point of view on this. He has a move that is tough to stop and that is not forbidden by league rules. Why not use it until someone can beat it? Would *I* play like that? No. But the guy has a bread and butter move. Hell I cant rush like he does and I've tried.

I don't think he thinks he is doing one thing wrong here. So yeah, I think it was cool of him to talk after the game rather than registering 8 sacks and logging out immidiately to go pop pimples. A guy would move into the Land of Dickheads if we made a rule banning any use of the DE and yet he still did it or he quit the league. But as it stands now he is not breaking the rules in any way shape or form. I don't like it either; I tried to introduce a rule to fix it but it is what it is.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:01 pm

bkrich83 wrote:Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?

I have not wasted one opportunity to remind Dan of his winless record.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:01 pm

Quick question about the headsets. I only just bought Live and have only got two games under my belt so far (as Tampa), and in both I ended up tossing the headset aside as it didn't sound like anyone was on the other end. Do I need to do anything to tune/activate my headset and mic (didn't notice anything during Live's setup) or is it on and active by default (once plugged into the controller, of course)?
---Todd

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:08 pm

ubrakto wrote:Quick question about the headsets. I only just bought Live and have only got two games under my belt so far (as Tampa), and in both I ended up tossing the headset aside as it didn't sound like anyone was on the other end. Do I need to do anything to tune/activate my headset and mic (didn't notice anything during Live's setup) or is it on and active by default (once plugged into the controller, of course)?
---Todd

Make sure the volume is up and the green light is on. Let me know when you want to play a game Todd and we can try it out. I'm usually free from 1030PM until about 12AM.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:10 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?
I have not wasted one opportunity to remind Dan of his winless record.

I would not expect any less of you.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:45 pm

ubrakto wrote:Quick question about the headsets. I only just bought Live and have only got two games under my belt so far (as Tampa), and in both I ended up tossing the headset aside as it didn't sound like anyone was on the other end. Do I need to do anything to tune/activate my headset and mic (didn't notice anything during Live's setup) or is it on and active by default (once plugged into the controller, of course)?
---Todd

Todd,

You should also make sure that the Voice option is turned on in the Online Options menu of ESPN NFL.

For some reason, the game will randomly set voice to off. I know this happens when joining an online game after playing offline, but it has happened to me at other times as well.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:53 pm

Thanks for the tips (green light is on and I think the volume is up, but I haven't double-checked the voice on/off toggle). Bill - I'm going to a poker night tonight (woo!), but maybe Saturday or Sunday night (I'll pop onto ICQ or fire you an email).
---Todd

skidmark · Post by **skidmark** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:59 pm

RobVarak wrote:but it has happened to me at other times as well.

I always thought it was related to whether or not the HS was actually plugged into the controller when the game first signs you on online.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:15 pm

Well, two of my three games were against non-DSP regulars and they were very fun. Jhwkr played very straight-up with Detroit, Todd (ubrakto) did the same with Tampa Bay. Spooky 157 also played very sound football with the Jets. I know Danimal has had a bad luck of the draw, but I think for a 32-person league, we're doing very well.

I voted against the DL rule because there are times for me when it makes more sense to control the lineman. And while you may get an elevated sack total that way, you are still going to see a lot of sacks in this game. Just the way ESPN is this year.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:44 pm

DB I wish I knew the move....I woulda given ya an ass whoopin.

I find that on some plays or in some matchups the games AI just refuses to block the DLineman...and its happened to me... I like runing for my life with a retarded qb.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:09 pm

bkrich83 wrote:Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?

I will say this, after taking over the Falcons I have exactly zero rushing attempts with Vick, but if someone is going to cheese rush me then I don' t want to hear any complaints when I start to let Vick loose.

That's exactly what I would do. Fight cheese with cheese.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:41 pm

Badgun wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?

I will say this, after taking over the Falcons I have exactly zero rushing attempts with Vick, but if someone is going to cheese rush me then I don' t want to hear any complaints when I start to let Vick loose.
That's exactly what I would do. Fight cheese with cheese.

2 cheeses make a right?

LOL

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:43 pm

bkrich83 wrote:
Badgun wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?

I will say this, after taking over the Falcons I have exactly zero rushing attempts with Vick, but if someone is going to cheese rush me then I don' t want to hear any complaints when I start to let Vick loose.
That's exactly what I would do. Fight cheese with cheese.
2 cheeses make a right?

LOL

If they are on my Pizza they do.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:49 pm

bkrich83 wrote:
Badgun wrote:
bkrich83 wrote:Speaking of fun, did I mention it was fun to extend Dan and his Pats losing streak to 4?

I will say this, after taking over the Falcons I have exactly zero rushing attempts with Vick, but if someone is going to cheese rush me then I don' t want to hear any complaints when I start to let Vick loose.
That's exactly what I would do. Fight cheese with cheese.
2 cheeses make a right?

LOL

More like cheese and anti-cheese. You have to burn the forest to keep it from catching fire

I do have a question: does the DE speed rush cause problems with the running game? Or is running at someone using this an effective counter?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:51 pm

bkrich83 wrote:2 cheeses make a right?

LOL

That wasn't funny.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:53 pm

bkrich83 wrote: 2 cheeses make a right?

No but they usually make another fat Greenbay fan

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:54 pm

Brando70 wrote:I do have a question: does the DE speed rush cause problems with the running game? Or is running at someone using this an effective counter?

Its a good idea but I dont think it sufficiently punishes the person enough to deter it.

If I find Im facing a deadly pass rush I usually just panic..

That wasnt far from the truth cause I do change my play more than I should.
I find using roll outs and quick patterns long with the runs is the best way.

Though I do think not letting it get into your head is also a big help...now to practice what I preach..thats the hardest part...I usually just make #2