Colin M 2005 Impressions

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Teal
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Post by Teal »

"I would rather have online racing (with GHOSTS THAT CAN BE TURNED OFF, Teal, as so efficiently pointed out by In)"


Yeah, I saw it, Zepp...will buy it this weekend. Looking very much forward to playing you guys...and losing badly... :wink:
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Zeppo
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Post by Zeppo »

Ya mon!!

I'm glad he figured that out, 'cause I sure didn't. It's frustrating that you can't access all the options in all the modes. . . . . . :evil:

But hey, now we know! Thanks Inin0!
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Post by Zeppo »

Oh, one more lame thing that breaks from the ToCA tradition of codies: you have to unlock the cars offline to play them online. :evil: again!!

I guess you can pay up and buy the code (or find a code-generator somewhere eventually that will let you). And the 4WD class I think is all open. It's the other classes, the 2WD, the Super-2WD (??? Help anyone? What does that mean?), the Class B, the 'classics,' the 4x4, the Special, all of them only have one default car available, the rest you have to earn. I know you can earn them in the career mode, don't know if there is another way.

So, we can still run the occasional odd-ball class, but we will all be in the same vehicle, IROC style. Not so bad relly, but still it would be nice if it were like ToCA where for online play, all cars are available right off the bat.
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Post by lnin0 »

DChaps wrote: - No car setups online. In rallying, picking the correct setup for the upcoming stages is a huge part of the strategy involved. For example, picking the right tire in a stage of mixed surfaces and making the compromises necessary in your driving style.

- No damage carry over from stage to stage. What is the point then of even having a damn damage model. Rallying is about endurance and doing your best to drive fast while preserving the car to make it to the end of the rally.

- No service areas of any kind. Same as above. Doing your best to make it through the stages to get to the service area, then making the determinations of what you can fix and what you can let go in the limited time frame to work on the car is a big part of the whole Rally genre.

- You never see the overall leaderboard or times until after the last stage. Again, what is the point. We might as well all just run a rally whenever we want and just post our times here. It's good that you can turn off the ghosts and chat if you want to better simulate rallying, but if you don't know where you are at during or between the stages then I agree with lnin0, there is no absolutely no drama to running a rally.
I've been here from the beggining as well and agree with you whole heartedly - for some reason Codies are compelled to move further and further from the true rally game Colin was once approaching and instead are heading the series into RSC2 waters... a collision with which they cannot survive.

RSC2 fans won't convert because the graphics and handling of CMR just won't sit well with them. I am not as put out with you this time paying $30 and getting an online game that at least handles closer to reality than RSC2 - but I am not happy with the direction of the series.

After this Live 'add-on' pack I don't see myself buying anohter CMR title until they do come back to their roots. I imagine what is left of their fanbase feels this way. I want a real flocking career like in V-Rally 3 (not a RSC2 copy-cat) and I want a real online Rally sim mode with leaderboards, setups and service areas.
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Post by James_E »

DChaps wrote: - No car setups online. In rallying, picking the correct setup for the upcoming stages is a huge part of the strategy involved. For example, picking the right tire in a stage of mixed surfaces and making the compromises necessary in your driving style.
Well, I for one don't like car setups online in any racing game. I agree that for pretty much every racing style, setups are a huge part of the real thing, but for videogaming I want to test my racing skills, not my setup skills. I don't have a lot of time to play, never mind spending that time in the garage. I'd rather race knowing everyone is on equal footing wrt setups. It works in our Toca 2 series.

However, I agree that they should at least be an option, so that those who want setups may have them.
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Post by Zeppo »

James_E wrote:
DChaps wrote: - No car setups online. In rallying, picking the correct setup for the upcoming stages is a huge part of the strategy involved. For example, picking the right tire in a stage of mixed surfaces and making the compromises necessary in your driving style.
Well, I for one don't like car setups online in any racing game. I agree that for pretty much every racing style, setups are a huge part of the real thing, but for videogaming I want to test my racing skills, not my setup skills. I don't have a lot of time to play, never mind spending that time in the garage. I'd rather race knowing everyone is on equal footing wrt setups. It works in our Toca 2 series.

However, I agree that they should at least be an option, so that those who want setups may have them.
yeah, but jamie, I'm no gear head either, but I see an essential difference with setups in this game than in a ToCA style game.

The setup options in CMR are super-simplified. And with the varying surfaces of rallying (gravel of differing types, mud, asphalt, snow), not being able to select even the appropriate tires is pretty odd. In ToCA, we are racing on road circuits; one expects the surface to be the same from race to race. In rallying, one stage is all-asphalt, a different one compact snow. Quick and easy adjustments of tire type, ride height, and spring stiffness go a long way to making the car manageable from surface to surface.

Also, as Don pointed out, one of the funnest things in a rally game is the compromises you have to make; some stages may be 56% asphalt, 44% medium gravel, and one guy may choose ashpalt tires while the other may choose gravel tires. It's that kind of decision making in the service station that is highly satisfying, and unique to rally games. In a ToCA-type game (or IndyCar), i think setups are more about finding that 'just-right' set of setup settings than it is about making the type of compromise you are faced with in rallying.

And again, there isn't any time spent in some garage, it's not like IndyCar where you have to go out and run laps to figure out if your setup adjusments are making it better or worse. There isn't really a 'test drive' or anything. My setup time in CMR consists of checking the info for the stage (tells you how much of the stage is what surface), then choosing the tire, setting the ride height (five choices from low to high) and spring stiffness (again, 5 choices from soft to hard). That's it. I figure the brake balance and steering settings are more about personal preference, but the tire choice, ride height and spring stiffness are integral to making the car appropriate for the upcoming stage.
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Post by Zeppo »

And FWIW, I agree with you guys that it is disappointing that the codies didn't do what would seem logical to us.

But I'm very happy to have this game, I'm very happy to be able to enjoy it, even in a dumbed-down form, online with buds.

I guess I expect seemingly no-brainer features to be left out of video games. Goes back to my frustrations with the double-switch issue in baseball games. Even when one game or other gets it right, the rest just don't seem to notice or care, and then you end up with a situation like this year, where every game had some major screw-up in substiution rules (that BTW they invented, they are not rules in the rule book) that screws up the double switch.

And of course, with Rivals proving that it is possible to have more than 2 machines connected in a sports video game, it's mind-blowing to me that no sports games anymore have anything but one-on-one online gaming.

So, i guess I am saying it is disappointing, but not surprising to me. And in the end, I am greatly enjoying this game, even with it's illogical 'career' mode BS, and it's not-yet-there online mode. I'm glad it's out, I'm glad I bought it, and I would rather have it as is that not have it at all.
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Post by Spooky »

Man you guys are killing me! I am out of town for a wedding this weekend so won't be setting the game until next week. Hopefully the stores will still have a copy or two left.

Hope to meet up online for some rally racing and then maybe some glatic shooting!
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Post by DChaps »

Zeppo wrote:My setup time in CMR consists of checking the info for the stage (tells you how much of the stage is what surface), then choosing the tire, setting the ride height (five choices from low to high) and spring stiffness (again, 5 choices from soft to hard). That's it.
Yep, and amazingly CMR2(4 year old game at this point) did this very nicely. :)
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Post by Blublub »

As someone who will be leaving for a land-with-no-broadband in the near future, can anyone highlight the OFFLINE improvements over CM4? Is it worth an upgrade just for offline? Can you still go from 60-0 after hitting a traffic sign? Are there any more stages or rallies? Are there any more cars?
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Post by Zeppo »

There aer more stages and rallies, though not a ton more. There are more cars, a couple whole new classes, but not Gran Tourismo style craziness. There is this new 'career' mode which forces you to use the different classes, but it's got annoying things about it too, like in the early stages the 'rallies' are mase up of one stage from here, one stage from there; pretty weird.

There is not a TON more stuff, but there is more. The graphics and physics are not improved a TON, but to my mind they are improved (haven't done a side-by-side). It is, I think, a little better in every way, not a whole new game but an improvement over 04.

Yes, the traffic signs are still deadly (they must bury them very deep). But I haven't noticed a whole lot of them, and I seem to hit the split-time markers every time through, and they don't slow me at all!
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Post by lnin0 »

Depending on your speed some things break and bend and some don't. It is a mixed bag and anybody's guess so the best thing to do is not hit roadside objects (a good goal I think).

There are more rallies - Germany is added and 2 extra stages per country I believe.

I have not played much offline but the career part I have played is more like RSC2 than a true sim in my eyes. You can pick your path similar to RSC2 but you only have a few choices. Each event that I have been in thus far has also bounced stage to stage from country to country unlike a real rally. Hopefully once you get further along in your career it will take on more of a WRC season feel. Also thus far they have let me repair my car after each stage. Did none of these developers play V-Rally 3 and realize how fantastic its career mode was and how far it could go with just a little polish and tweaking. That game was to rally careers what madden is to franchise football.

4 has better rain effects and water but not variable weather. 4 has a parid of drivers hands on the wheel in-car and a much better molded dash while 5 has no hands and a generic feeling in-car view. How Codies can downgrade staples of their games are beyond me but they have been doing it since CMR2. So you get a little more offline in 05 but you also loose a little in the process. Overall I would have a hard time deciding on 05 if I didn't have Live. Probably would get it in the end just because there is nothing else out that I find appealing and think there is enough new stuff to keep me busy for a couple weeks.
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Post by Zeppo »

OK Blublub I'm changing my mind from 'luke-warm' to, 'you should get this game.'

There are enough tweaks that I think make it worth it. Two things are the new 'fast lock' button, which I am starting to use more and more. It allows you to lock the steering quicker, so it's really handy for those tighter turns. And second is the little touch of trippy blur you get when you crash. Depending on how hard the impact was, it will bemore or les pronounced and last shorter or longer.

These may not seem like much, but i think it points to the overall sense I get that this is a more refined, polished game than 04. I don't notice that the weather effects are appreciably worse than in 04. It may be so, but I haven't done a side-by-side and it's not appreciably worse or better to my eye. (I hadn't put 04 in the machine in probably 6 weeks, and that was just a short revisit after not playing it much at all since ToCA arrived.) More rallies, more stages, more cars, more classes, slight improvements IMO in everything else. Get it, I don't think you'll be disappointed. I didn't play 02 or 03, but I don't think is is like the 03 deal (which apparently was a huge step back, if only in that the championship mode was only the one car available).
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Post by Dave »

I've tried using the 'fast lock' button but every time I think about using it, my lack of coordination catches up with me and I either screw up the braking or turn-in. Hopefully I get to the point where I can worry about the two triggers, the handbrake, and the fast lock if need be.

For some reason, I never got the drive to push on through CMR 04 that I have with this one already. Not sure if it is the thought of you guys embarassing me on XBL or if I'm just 'getting' the handling better this time around. Again, I fear my abilities in the 4wd cars are going to leave much to be desired, but I feel like I can get a better flow in this game with my driving.

For me, it was an easy decision--trade in 04 and 4 really old sports games and the thing was paid for thanks to EB. The XBL component should be enough to keep me happy.
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Post by JackB1 »

Can u CM veterans give a newbie some pointers? I am having a real tough going so far in offline career mode. I am finnishing last on every race so far. I have a few questions also: is there a way to restart a race? I didnt see one. Does the game pick the default setup for you or so u have to choose before each race? Should I repair as much damage as possible before each stage? I find it a little confusing watching the arrows and listening to my co driver at the same time. SHould I turn one of and use the other? The force feedback seems pretty weak compared to RSC2. When do u use the regular brake, as opposed to the hand brake and lock?
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Post by Badgun »

JackB1 wrote:Can u CM veterans give a newbie some pointers? I am having a real tough going so far in offline career mode. I am finnishing last on every race so far. I have a few questions also: is there a way to restart a race? I didnt see one. Does the game pick the default setup for you or so u have to choose before each race? Should I repair as much damage as possible before each stage? I find it a little confusing watching the arrows and listening to my co driver at the same time. SHould I turn one of and use the other? The force feedback seems pretty weak compared to RSC2. When do u use the regular brake, as opposed to the hand brake and lock?
Jack,
I was having the same problem and I finally gave up on the shield and did the cup on the first rally. The cup is a lot easier than the shield and I managed to finish 2nd there. Then I went back to the shield and won the first stage! Something about running the cup and then going to the shield made it easier for me.

As for your questions about setup, I think the CPU picks the best basic setup for you for each race like it will set you up with snow tires for snow races and gravel tires for those type races. You can still make tweaks if you'd like, but the basic default setup is ok.

When repairing damage, I always look at the most critical options first like engine, suspension, etc. Repair the most critical ones first and if you have to leave something out, I always leave out body work first and brakes 2nd. Usually I have enough time to repair everything except one so I usually just leave out body work.

I'd forget about the arrows and just listen to the co-driver. I never take my eyes off the road and it works pretty well for me. Plus, once you run the stages a few times, you'll start to develop a relationship with the track where you can anticipate more.

Keep in mind, I was struggling just like you so my suggestions are definitely not the gospel, but they have worked pretty well for me.
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Post by Boom »

You've definitely got to start tinkering with your settings prior to each stage. If nothing else, for the love of God, get the proper set of tires. You are not automatically given the best set for each stage. You need to change them yourself.
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Post by Dave »

Boom hit the nail on the head. The CPU gives you the right 'class' of tires (snow tires on snow stages, gravel on gravel stages, etc.) but usually does not give you the exact tire you'll need--most tarmac stages default to a wet tarmac tire, but it might be a smooth tarmac stage. The wrong tire choice will definitely impact your ability to scoot around the course.

Other than that, I tend to mess with ride height (lower for smoother surfaces for more grip) and suspension (softer for gravel and snow). I also like the brakes faded to the rear so it will kick the rear out easier under braking.

So far, this has been the ultimate "go slower to go fast" game, and I think others will agree. Unlike Indycar or ToCA, you don't need to drive it hard into every corner. In fact, early on, I would go into a corner a gear lower than Dear Nicky suggested just to make sure I would exit the turn at a decent point.

Rememeber that no one (at least that I know of) can run a truly perfect stage in this game, they'll leave time on the table somewhere or hit a tree or something. Just be patient and not worry about ghost cars going off into the distance. I really start hitting things when I see I'm catching up to people--simply put, I push too hard and end up off the road.

Right now, I can drive the 2wd cars pretty well, but last night on some stages the 4wd starting clicking and I could get into a nice rhythm. That's always my goal, turning the stage into a series of turns, not one turn then another (if that makes any sense).

Finally, I really only use the handbrake for hairpins and 2-level turns. I'm a big fan of the Scandanavian flick (learned that one from the game) to get the car drifting.

Hope you found some pointers in this rambling message!
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Post by JackB1 »

what is the Scnadanavian flick?

this game would have benefited from some sort or tutorial stage
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Post by Zeppo »

Jack I would reiterate the importance of checking at least the tires. The info for the stage will tell you what % of it is what surface, and you need to make sure the tires on your machine match the surface of the stage.

Also, general rule of thumb as to ride height/spring stiffness is, on pavement, get your height as low as it can go and the springs as stiff as possible. On gravel, get the height as high as it can go and springs as soft as possible. Also I adjust the anti-roll bar stiffness similar to the springs. To start with, just go to the extremes in each case, and you can start tweaking from there as you get more used to it.

I did as Boom suggested earlier in this thread as far as the graphics go. I turned off EVERYTHING- turned off the arrows, turned off the progress bar, turned off ghosts (key for online), all of that. I rely only on the pace-notes. I found that I was being distracted by all that stuff, and now with it all off, I am much better able to pay attention and see the course in front of me.

Also, I have been playing in semi-auto transmission, and it has helped me immensely, as compared to what I used to do in 04. Note that the pace notes do not indicate what gear you should be in for a turn. Rather, they are descriptive numbers, each number describes the tightness of a turn, how fast you can go through it. So a "3" doesn't necessarily mean "be in 3rd gear." I found in 04 I would feel a pull to match my gear with that number, and now in semi-auto I just drive the damn car. The numbers are starting to bring up visual images of the turns for me, which is helping me a lot.

As usual, slow in fast out is the deal, but being able to manipulate the mass of the car is key, for example I often tap the brake while I'm on the gas to help whip the back end around. Handbrake maybe for the hairpins, although I am using the fast-lock button more and more and liking it.

I am absolutely loving this game more and more. All the stages are awesome, I haven't done a one where I though "eh." The high spped sections, with strings of 6es and 5s are so much fun, you can really fly, but it's tough to keep the thing together. I am far from luke-warm on this game, Jack, I am loving it.

And after playing more online, I am loving that too. Yes, I am disappointed at the lack of features online, but when a few of us are together in a room racing, who needs freaking setups? It's so damn fun. I have set up some 'custom rallies' to make short, 4-stage rallies for online, and me teal and dave had a blast running those. Not lukewarm, loving it!!
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Post by Boom »

Zeppo,
Sorry I didn't hook up w/ you guys last night. I was playing with a friend from back home and I really didn't have much time. I ran like 3 stages and hopped off. If i was going to stay around for while I'd of had us both hop over to you guys.
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Post by Dave »

I definitely think the 4-stage rallies are the way to go. 8 can drag out, especially if you're uncompetitive for whatever reason.

Jack--you need to pay attention to the loading screens! They actually give decent hints and rally driving info. The Scandanavian flick is where you turn the car quickly and briefly the opposite direction of a turn. Then you snap it the direction you want to go and the very quick weight transfer puts the car into a very nice drift. If you watch WRC on Speed Channel, you'll notice they always do it.

I think I need to turn the ghost cars off for online, they tend to make me push too hard if I'm behind.

As far as the gear changes go, it seems like the corner description ties in with the standard WRC abilities. Most 6's are in 6th gear, 3's in 3rd, etc. etc. But once you use a different car (classic or 2wd), then you need to know how to translate the corner into what speed/gear you should be going. Especially classic since you're driving a 4-speed tranny.
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Post by Zeppo »

Boom wrote:Zeppo,
Sorry I didn't hook up w/ you guys last night. I was playing with a friend from back home and I really didn't have much time. I ran like 3 stages and hopped off. If i was going to stay around for while I'd of had us both hop over to you guys.
No worries, we were jsut having a good time. The little 4-stage rallies are nice.
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Post by Blublub »

Zep, thanks for the recommendation. I agree completely so far - I'm loving the changes from '04.
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Post by Zeppo »

For some reason, I am having a much better time with hairpins in this game than in 04. It's entirely possible that I am just better now, but I think there may be something about the game that hleps.

I haven't got too far in career mode (still on the first block of stuff), but I am frustrated by the lack of challenge. I had hoped the competitors would have ramped up a bit by now, but I'm beating them by large margins in the various competitions. What's frustrating, is I think I have to restart in order to change the difficulty. Not 100% sure, but I think so. Better do it now, before I get too far in. Although, part of me wants to cruise through just to open up all the cars. Hmmm.
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