Racing Sim Thread, Part II

[J_Cauthen]

John:

Don't expect the PC version of iRacing or NASCAR Racing 2003 from this game. That's unrealistic. Those are sims."

Yeah, I have reset my thinking this was going to be an iRacing on consoles after seeing the previews. I think it will be enough of a simulation to pacify my desires there. I like that they have given such a variety of sliders to allow gamers to tailor it to their level of assist needs. I will probably use some degree of stability assist even after I get used to the game.

NASCAR 25 definitely has DNA from those two games -- the Dave Kaemmer effect! -- while still being fun and approachable. I got serious NASCAR Thunder 2004/2005 vibes playing this game last night, and those were definitely the best NASCAR console games I've played.

It's funny that you characterize it as the Dave Kaemmer effect... I recall thinking it still had Dave's fingerprints on it even as I watched some of the earlier previews... especially the ones using the cockpit and camera views. For some reason, I was getting too much of a NASCAR Heat 4 and 5 vibe out of the chase views that most people playing this game seem to be using. It probably feels different, but for some reason I was reminded of those two games using the chase view. I enjoyed those games for a while, but they were too thin in the AI department to keep me interested long term.

This does make me hopeful for their Indy game now. I think they'll do that right as well. This till tide me over until that comes along I am pretty sure.

I'm curious... do you happen to have a VRR capable display? I'd be curious to see if there's a noticeable change in this game's performance when it's being run on a VRR capable display? I'm thinking they put this vsync on/off option in the settings for some reason.

[pk500]

John:

I don't even know what a VRR-capable display is. So, sorry, mate: I can't tell you whether I have one or not.

I have a pretty basic Vizio 4K HDTV that's 6 years old, so probably not.

[J_Cauthen]

John:

I don't even know what a VRR-capable display is. So, sorry, mate: I can't tell you whether I have one or not.

I have a pretty basic Vizio 4K HDTV that's 6 years old, so probably not.

LOL... I forget sometimes that not everyone else is as much of tech geek as I am when it comes to video and computer gaming and display hardware. VRR stands for Variable Refresh Rate. If the input device to a VRR capable display has an unlocked vsync, the display will dynamically sync itself to whatever refresh rate the input device (in this example, the Series X) is sending the display. Because the VRR function of the display can do this in real time, it takes the screen judder and tearing out of the image that you would experience on a non VRR display, when the XBox was trying to output 60 Hz, but couldn't do it because the hardware wasn't capable of delivering a steady 60 Hz.

iRacing was at least aware enough of this and knew their game was going to present a challenge to the hardware on both the Series X and they PS5 and even PS5 Pro, to enable the option for the user to turn vsync off in the game settings, so as to allow the display technology to do its work.

I don't have a VRR capable display myself, but if it significantly helps the performance of NASCAR 25, I will likely make that move. The problem has been that most developers don't recognize the need for offering and option to turn vsync off. It doesn't take but a line or two of code to add that option and it's one that a lot of people would use if they knew it was there.

I doubt you 6 year old Vizio has it, but neither does my six year old TCL 4K HDTV. If I had waited one year though, the model that replaced mine in their lineup had VRR, and I'd have been all over that. Problem right now is there are probably only a handful of console games that allow the gamer to turn off vsync, but dang it... NASCAR 25 is one of them!

[J_Cauthen]

I paid for the early release of NASCAR 25 for Xbox Series X and played for about 90 minutes the first day (Friday morning) and then unfortunately have not had time to go back to it since then. I too have a Thrustmaster TX and there were definitely some issues with the steering and force feedback but I did not spend much time tweaking it. From a performance and graphics perspective, I thought it was actually pretty smooth, at least for the one race I had in ARCA at IRP from the back of the pack in cockpit view. See 45 minutes into my twitch stream below if you want to see what the start of the race looked like. Don't know if there is a patch released yet for Xbox. I have not tried it since, but hope to get back to it this evening so I will let you know how it goes. I am planning to start my career. This stream below was for my use only with no editing so proceed with caution.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2587957642

Don, I'd love to read your thoughts on your wheel performance after the XBox update. Have you had a chance to try it out yet with all of the force feedback patches and even additions?

[TCrouch]

I had never even heard of this game until yesterday when some Youtube thumbnail said "NASCAR 25 launch trailer". I laughed but clicked it anyway.

Then saw it was iRacing and rushed to buy it.

I only raced once on it, but damn the controls were the best I've felt on a console (I don't have a wheel for my PS5 other than an old G29 and I'm not doing that). I could go 3, 4 wide at Daytona pretty comfortably. I can definitely feel the iRacing tech under the hood, even with the assists on for controller use.

I haven't raced anything in almost 2 years. Funny that a NASCAR game is the first thing to draw me back in out of nowhere.

I do have a VRR display, but didn't even see that was an option (didn't look very hard, though). Only thing i noticed that put me off a bit was the typical "road 100 yards in front of you changing resolutions" that some of these console racing games have. Their depth of field changes and it's like somebody putting a filter out front of your car.

That, and seeing TJ Majors in the first cutscene in career mode. Me and that dude had some beef in a Madden league he ran, so it's just an instant eye-roll. I hope I don't have to listen to him constantly in career mode

[J_Cauthen]

I had never even heard of this game until yesterday when some Youtube thumbnail said "NASCAR 25 launch trailer". I laughed but clicked it anyway.

Then saw it was iRacing and rushed to buy it.

I only raced once on it, but damn the controls were the best I've felt on a console (I don't have a wheel for my PS5 other than an old G29 and I'm not doing that). I could go 3, 4 wide at Daytona pretty comfortably. I can definitely feel the iRacing tech under the hood, even with the assists on for controller use.

I haven't raced anything in almost 2 years. Funny that a NASCAR game is the first thing to draw me back in out of nowhere.

I do have a VRR display, but didn't even see that was an option (didn't look very hard, though). Only thing i noticed that put me off a bit was the typical "road 100 yards in front of you changing resolutions" that some of these console racing games have. Their depth of field changes and it's like somebody putting a filter out front of your car.

That, and seeing TJ Majors in the first cutscene in career mode. Me and that dude had some beef in a Madden league he ran, so it's just an instant eye-roll. I hope I don't have to listen to him constantly in career mode

This is an endorsement I was hoping to see... I am definitely going in on NASCAR 25 now! My wife wants it to be my birthday present on the 21st, so I'll have to wait until then. They'll probably have three more patches between now and then.

I will definitely give the controller a try because so many people I trust have praised its implementation in this game. It takes me about a minute to get my wheel in business using my modified Playseat Evolution, so it's not like I have to break my neck to get it up and going.

If you have a VRR HDTV I'm not sure whether it requires you to go into a setting on your TV menu and enable it there or not. It may just switch to it if it detects that it's getting an unlocked input. If you go into the settings menu of NASCAR 25, the only option there is to turn vsync on or off. I think if you just unlock it, your TV will manage it if it's in VRR mode.

[TCrouch]

Yeah my TV is always VRR-enabled, and the PS5 has the option turned on. So if it's the same thing as others, it's just the console talking to the TV and the game doesn't even try to do anything.

I'll check it out later. And keep in mind, it was ONE race...on Normal, so not exactly a difficult race or anything. But I could play recent NASCAR games on a controller and instantly be turned off by trying to hold a line in an oval game. It's so fiddly on a little thumbstick. I was surprised that even at Rockingham I could really aim for entry points and hold it on the apron, let it drift out to the wall and keep it off with little effort.

I have a feeling it's heavily-assisted because it had that "you don't really have to brake, just lift and once it's at the right speed, mash the gas again" model. But I wasn't aiming for iRacing-level realism like I had with my full setup. I was really looking for old NASCAR Heat-style pick up and play fun, and this absolutely nailed it. I could pick inside or outside lines, shoot the middle, cook an entry a little bit to carry speed around the outside, cross over on exit. Basically all the things that would have been a nightmare on a controller for me.

I'll know a lot more after the weekend, but its first impressions were certainly good.

[pk500]

I was really looking for old NASCAR Heat-style pick up and play fun, and this absolutely nailed it. I could pick inside or outside lines, shoot the middle, cook an entry a little bit to carry speed around the outside, cross over on exit. Basically all the things that would have been a nightmare on a controller for me.

Yes. All of this.

iRacing has revived vibes of three of the most fun console racing simcade games with their two console titles. World of Outlaws feels a lot like Ratbag's iconic World of Outlaws Sprint Cars from 2002 on the PS2, and NASCAR 25 feels a hell of a lot like NASCAR Thunder 2004/05 and the very best NASCAR Heat games.

I could be VERY happy as a racing gamer with just NASCAR 25, World of Outlaws 25, Assetto Corsa Competizione, WRC, RiMS and Isle of Man TT 3. I have all of those -- and many more. But I could be stoked with just that lineup.

[DChaps]

Don, I'd love to read your thoughts on your wheel performance after the XBox update. Have you had a chance to try it out yet with all of the force feedback patches and even additions?

Just gave NASCAR 25 another try since the Xbox patch dropped and it's 100% improved in the force feedback and steering feel. I have yet to tweak anything either. I also did some multiplayer and it was surprisingly great even at Talladega. I agree with everything Paul has stated. Very good pick up and play feel to it as well. I have recorded another TWITCH if you are interested. At 26 minutes into it I scroll through all the main menu settings including the assists, force feedback and advanced controls. At 66 minutes in I go through some multiplayer and the ratings system. Then at 92 minutes I go through all the online racing settings. So, this now marks at least 5 times in the last several years where I paid for early access to a racing game and then either didn't play it at all or very minimally until after full release. When will I ever learn. Anyway, I would say this has the potential to be the best NASCAR console game since DIRT to Daytona. So when are we going to start a DSP NASCAR 25 League Night?

https://youtu.be/ENdZLaGA06s?si=Wvp-0EMIKrtSw3CJ
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2595276144

[pk500]

I started my NASCAR 25 career last night, figuring I would run one or two races to get my feet wet. Instead, I ran 11 races and played for nearly 3.5 hours.

Then I ran some online. Yeah, there are some rooms full of pricks. But you can find rooms where people run pretty clean. Massive fun.

This is a fantastic game.

[pk500]

So when are we going to start a DSP NASCAR 25 League Night?

Sounds like fun other than the obvious knowledge the best any of us can finish is third if Terry and Simo join.

We could run the races like sports cars with classes. Terry and Adam can battle for the overall win and the Elite class honors, and the rest of us can race for the big trophy in the Schlub class.

[J_Cauthen]

Just gave NASCAR 25 another try since the Xbox patch dropped and it's 100% improved in the force feedback and steering feel. I have yet to tweak anything either.

Thanks for abating my fears about the force feedback. Did you have to turn the centering spring on to give you some feel in the straights?

Anyway, I would say this has the potential to be the best NASCAR console game since DIRT to Daytona. So when are we going to start a DSP NASCAR 25 League Night?

I would definitely be in for that. Hopefully we can make that happen! This sounds like it would lend itself well to multiplayer racing among gamers who were interested in racing rather than turning it into wreckfest. I am really excited about getting this game on Thursday having heard the praise it's getting from you, Terry, and Paul.

[https://youtu.be/ENdZLaGA06s?si=Wvp-0EMIKrtSw3CJ
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2595276144

Thanks for putting the videos together. I will be educating myself a bit more by viewing them later tonight!

[J_Cauthen]

I have had the game for two days now and it has surpassed mu expectations overall. I didn't get the game until after the force feedback patch for steering wheels was released and I can say that the force feedback effects with my Thrustmaster TX wheel were almost perfect at default. I have made a few minor tweaks to the feedback settings and will probably continue to tweak as I pick up suggestions from other users.

I find the AI to be mostly exceptional in terms of driving. They still make some boneheaded tactical decisions with pitting and wreckage avoidance, but they are run to race with. I went three laps around Dover racing an AI driver for 19th place, in which neither of us could get more than a half a length over the other. I finally was able to put him behind me by using a lapped car as a screen to get around him. He still stayed within two car lengths of me the rest of the race.

I can't believe how much fun I'm having with the Career mode. I really feel invested in it, as simplified as the interface of it is. It is slowly getting more involved as my career moves on and I like it that way. They could have made it too technical, but as it is I find it to be an enhancement to the experience.

I wish they had given the user some more graphics settings options. All we have are vsync on or off. I turned it off and feel like there's a slight improvement with that. I would love to see how much of a performance boost the game would get at 1080p. There are occasions when I feel like the frame rate is slowing significantly, but it's short lived. Overall I can't complain about the performance on my Series X. I would say the graphics quality is average... maybe a little beyond that, but I would rather have a graphics compromise to keep the frame rate up. I am planning to buy a VRR capable HDTV soon and I'm curious to see how turning vsync off with VRR on helps the game's performance, if any... it might not be noticeable, but I love testing performance settings.

The wheel control feels so good that I haven't been able to tear myself away from it try out the controller performance. I haven't heard one complaint about the controller implementation so I am curious to give it a try. I will make that happen today.

This is the stock car racing game I've been longing for though. I have been glued to it since installing it and I'm discovering more to like about it as I go.

[TCrouch]

FWIW, I haven't had a single frame drop that I've noticed. I did turn off Vsync and didn't see any screen tearing or anything, but I couldn't point out a big difference.

I'm playing on a PS5 Pro, so there may be platform differences there with the framerate.