It is and I can confirm that at least the PC version and the XBox version play with the same degree of difficulty. I had to cut my PC resolution back to 1080p to get 60 FPS, but it feels pretty similar to the XBox version at that res. I also don't feel like there's even a hint of a polling problem with the controller on the XBox version.
PGA Tour 2K25
Moderators: Bill_Abner, ScoopBrady
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I have seen a difference in lighting at times since the second patch. The sun angle is 90 degrees different on the patched demo, but it also appears as though the clouds are obscuring the light sometimes, eliminating some of the washout glare. It's not always the same. I played a round last night where only the 18th hole showed signs of the really annoying glare.AcemanPR wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:19 am I'll be getting the standard edition as well. The demo is very impressive. I'll need to fire it up again to check out the patch to the demo tonight. I thought it was a bit too bright before, but would be cool if there are different times of day.
It's funny.... in the demo they state the time of day as "Noon", yet the golfer's shadow length looks more like 4:00 PM.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
You seem to really have a hard on for the cloud.Greensboronclion wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:47 pm I have had every golf game out there since Links 386 until now and I will not be getting involved at launch and not by choice. I still play on Xbox One and also have a Nintendo Switch for my Motorhome where I still play 2K21. I will play 2K23 in one society that will remain till September and play EA game which is most immerse single player game I've seen for the foreseeable future till the Big boys figure which direction we are going cloud or console. What gets me is Xbox already talking new console in 2026 so no idea where this is going. Lastly if 2K still us8ng same engine why didn't they have the game on Xbox One or PS4? Just makes no sense and stupid unless you intend to go cloud sooner rather than later. Just my 2 cents.
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
Sweet!!J_Cauthen wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:50 pmI finally gave into the pressure and decided to order the Deluxe version for my Series X. I'm not going to be able to sit on the sidelines for a week and listen to all the reports.Leadfoot5 wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:38 pm I'm in with the Deluxe version. Hoping our Society continues over to this version (even thought I haven't booted up 2K23 in months.) Ready to dive back in though!!
I'll be glad to create a new Digital Sportspage Society for it, especially since it will be cross platform. I can see a steady field of a dozen players or more with all three platforms being in the same society. I'll make this happen day 1, now that I'm committed to buying the deluxe version. I feel like a bratty little kid caving into this, but I can't deny it's what's driving me.![]()
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
johnnypark wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:55 pmYou seem to really have a hard on for the cloud.Greensboronclion wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:47 pm I have had every golf game out there since Links 386 until now and I will not be getting involved at launch and not by choice. I still play on Xbox One and also have a Nintendo Switch for my Motorhome where I still play 2K21. I will play 2K23 in one society that will remain till September and play EA game which is most immerse single player game I've seen for the foreseeable future till the Big boys figure which direction we are going cloud or console. What gets me is Xbox already talking new console in 2026 so no idea where this is going. Lastly if 2K still us8ng same engine why didn't they have the game on Xbox One or PS4? Just makes no sense and stupid unless you intend to go cloud sooner rather than later. Just my 2 cents.
Maybe I do but I'm not buying another Xbox that could be replaced with a new system in about a year. Yes I'm betting that Cloud gaming coming quicker than people think as the current Current Xbox and Playstation never met sales goals so as an ex business guy why in the hell would I do the same thing again when I can reach the masses a much more affordable way. There is a reason these companies are buying game developers.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
So someone can set up a society here and both Xbox and PC users can join? I really have no plans to buy 2 versions.J_Cauthen wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:53 pmIt is and I can confirm that at least the PC version and the XBox version play with the same degree of difficulty. I had to cut my PC resolution back to 1080p to get 60 FPS, but it feels pretty similar to the XBox version at that res. I also don't feel like there's even a hint of a polling problem with the controller on the XBox version.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
Yes, Dan... that is possible. In fact all three platforms can be in the same society. I'm in the process of trying to set up a Digital Sportspage Society this morning, but apparently there's a problem with Society creation right now. The society creation process freezes the system at different points and the only escape is to quit the game entirely. A couple of times I've actually had to do a cold reboot of the XBox to recover. Hopefully 2K will have an answer to this soon. I'm plugging away at it now, but it crashes no matter what order I'm trying to enter the data.Danimal wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:29 pmSo someone can set up a society here and both Xbox and PC users can join? I really have no plans to buy 2 versions.J_Cauthen wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:53 pmIt is and I can confirm that at least the PC version and the XBox version play with the same degree of difficulty. I had to cut my PC resolution back to 1080p to get 60 FPS, but it feels pretty similar to the XBox version at that res. I also don't feel like there's even a hint of a polling problem with the controller on the XBox version.
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
For what it's worth, I got the Deluxe Edition and played my first career mode round on the Korn Ferry Tour. I went with Pro difficult settings for both myself and the AI. It seems to be a great fit for me. I shot a 70 in my first round and I'm tied for second place. You don't see anything more then the scores of your competitors, but somehow, between the commentary and the production, it felt like I was playing in something bigger than just a round of golf. I might finally be able to get into a 2K Sports PGA TOUR Golf career mode if this keeps up.
It's nice to be playing on the Series X and know that your stick inputs are being tracked and properly accounted for with 2K25. I like the feel that EvoSwing adds to the game. It feels more organic than what we've had up to this point.
It's nice to be playing on the Series X and know that your stick inputs are being tracked and properly accounted for with 2K25. I like the feel that EvoSwing adds to the game. It feels more organic than what we've had up to this point.
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
Well, I got the Digital Sportspage society created, that that's about it. It crashes when I go to the logo creation page. I then tried to create our first tournament and the system froze after both event creation efforts. I had to quit 2K25 to go anywhere from that. I guess these are the growing pains of an early release. I'll update the status of the society here as soon as I can actually create a logo and an event. I will be reporting this as a bug to 2K here shortly, but I'm sure they're probably already aware of it.
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I was able to sneak 9 holes in at TPC Sawgrass before work and now I'll be thinking about this game all day! It plays very good on the XBSX. I'm doing the same as you John, I am starting off on Pro with the AI set to that. I'm going to need to work hard on the back 9 if I am to match your 70. 

Re: PGA Tour 2K25
Echoing the same comments. Have been playing the demo off and on all week and spent last night with the full game (set my time zone to New Zealand) 
The changes that they made to the swing mechanic are fantastic. I'm seeing parts of courses that I never saw before (e.g. bunkers, rough, etc) and there is no mystery as to why. It's clear what I did wrong and what I need to do to correct. Also, it's very easy to "feel" the improvements when you level up your golfer or clubs. And I think for the first time that I am missing putts for the same reason I would miss them in real life, leaving my clubface open or closed. I mean, I HATE missing what should be an easy 5 foot putt, but there's so much more of a lifelike feel to it now.
Thanks for working to get the Society set up J! Looking forward to teeing it up against you all. -Al
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The changes that they made to the swing mechanic are fantastic. I'm seeing parts of courses that I never saw before (e.g. bunkers, rough, etc) and there is no mystery as to why. It's clear what I did wrong and what I need to do to correct. Also, it's very easy to "feel" the improvements when you level up your golfer or clubs. And I think for the first time that I am missing putts for the same reason I would miss them in real life, leaving my clubface open or closed. I mean, I HATE missing what should be an easy 5 foot putt, but there's so much more of a lifelike feel to it now.
Thanks for working to get the Society set up J! Looking forward to teeing it up against you all. -Al
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I came back to my usual sucky form in the next round I played, which btw was our first Digital Sportspage society round. I was finally able to get a tournament set at Crazy Canucks new course. My horrible chipping and pitching took its toll on me in this round. I chili dip so many chips and short pitches in this new game because I can't get out of my jabby chip stroke habit.AcemanPR wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:09 am I was able to sneak 9 holes in at TPC Sawgrass before work and now I'll be thinking about this game all day! It plays very good on the XBSX. I'm doing the same as you John, I am starting off on Pro with the AI set to that. I'm going to need to work hard on the back 9 if I am to match your 70.![]()
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I do like the more nuanced intricacies of the EvoSwing, but they are giving me a fit in the short game. I can't feel the velocity of stroke very well with my current golfer. I need to spend time in the practice area working on this because it is killing me right now.Leadfoot5 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:51 am Echoing the same comments. Have been playing the demo off and on all week and spent last night with the full game (set my time zone to New Zealand)
The changes that they made to the swing mechanic are fantastic. I'm seeing parts of courses that I never saw before (e.g. bunkers, rough, etc) and there is no mystery as to why. It's clear what I did wrong and what I need to do to correct. Also, it's very easy to "feel" the improvements when you level up your golfer or clubs. And I think for the first time that I am missing putts for the same reason I would miss them in real life, leaving my clubface open or closed. I mean, I HATE missing what should be an easy 5 foot putt, but there's so much more of a lifelike feel to it now.
Thanks for working to get the Society set up J! Looking forward to teeing it up against you all. -Al
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I did finally get a tournament set, but not everything is finalized. I can't enter a message of the day without the program crashing. What I wanted to say there was I'll run 18 hole daily tournaments until March 5th, until every one has had a chance to buy the standard version of the game. It will give us a chance to figure out what we want in terms of difficulty settings.
I should add that I overlooked the chance to set the society's difficulty settings for this first tournament. It was on default, using perfect swing. I realized it after the first hole and manually changed it to Pro for my player, for the rest of the round. I also turned rhythm off for putting, and the swing bias offset OFF for level lies. I have now set the Society difficulty to pro overall difficulty with some minor tweaks, to accomplish what I described above with the putt rhythm and the level shot bias being turned off. They may not take effect until the next tournament though. If your swing difficulty is set to Perfect Swing, you'll know they haven't though...

Re: PGA Tour 2K25
is the game graphically any better than 2k23 on the full release? Is it even close to EA PGA Tour?
How does it compare to EA's game?
IGN posted a review today but says EA's game is still better than 2K25 -
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1 ... eview_ign/
'PGA Tour 2K25 is still a few strokes behind EA Sports PGA Tour as the best golfing simulator around, but if it continues to improve like this with each new iteration, we may see it close that gap relatively soon.'
How does it compare to EA's game?
IGN posted a review today but says EA's game is still better than 2K25 -
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1 ... eview_ign/
'PGA Tour 2K25 is still a few strokes behind EA Sports PGA Tour as the best golfing simulator around, but if it continues to improve like this with each new iteration, we may see it close that gap relatively soon.'
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
What's the society's name?J_Cauthen wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:31 amI do like the more nuanced intricacies of the EvoSwing, but they are giving me a fit in the short game. I can't feel the velocity of stroke very well with my current golfer. I need to spend time in the practice area working on this because it is killing me right now.Leadfoot5 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:51 am Echoing the same comments. Have been playing the demo off and on all week and spent last night with the full game (set my time zone to New Zealand)
The changes that they made to the swing mechanic are fantastic. I'm seeing parts of courses that I never saw before (e.g. bunkers, rough, etc) and there is no mystery as to why. It's clear what I did wrong and what I need to do to correct. Also, it's very easy to "feel" the improvements when you level up your golfer or clubs. And I think for the first time that I am missing putts for the same reason I would miss them in real life, leaving my clubface open or closed. I mean, I HATE missing what should be an easy 5 foot putt, but there's so much more of a lifelike feel to it now.
Thanks for working to get the Society set up J! Looking forward to teeing it up against you all. -Al
---
3d6-Gaming.com
I did finally get a tournament set, but not everything is finalized. I can't enter a message of the day without the program crashing. What I wanted to say there was I'll run 18 hole daily tournaments until March 5th, until every one has had a chance to buy the standard version of the game. It will give us a chance to figure out what we want in terms of difficulty settings.
I should add that I overlooked the chance to set the society's difficulty settings for this first tournament. It was on default, using perfect swing. I realized it after the first hole and manually changed it to Pro for my player, for the rest of the round. I also turned rhythm off for putting, and the swing bias offset OFF for level lies. I have now set the Society difficulty to pro overall difficulty with some minor tweaks, to accomplish what I described above with the putt rhythm and the level shot bias being turned off. They may not take effect until the next tournament though. If your swing difficulty is set to Perfect Swing, you'll know they haven't though...![]()
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
The IGN review is one person's opinion.Lancer wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:48 pm is the game graphically any better than 2k23 on the full release? Is it even close to EA PGA Tour?
How does it compare to EA's game?
IGN posted a review today but says EA's game is still better than 2K25 -
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1 ... eview_ign/
'PGA Tour 2K25 is still a few strokes behind EA Sports PGA Tour as the best golfing simulator around, but if it continues to improve like this with each new iteration, we may see it close that gap relatively soon.'
Here is my opinion to your questions above. This is going to be a great compliment to EA's golf game. 2K definitely stepped up their game and made something as much fun, if not more than their rival's game. It's still way too early to completely give in depth knowledge of 2K's game, as it's only been released for a few hours, I only have 2 rounds at TPC Sawgrass and the demo to go by.
First and foremost, I can say the swing mechanics are better in 2K25. It just feels perfect with the Xbox controller. I know exactly if the ball is going to go left, right, or down the middle. This will definitely be the best part of this game for sure. The short game is definitely challenging right now, but I can see HB Studios tweaking things for the non-Advanced release next Friday.
Graphics, 2K25 is a major improvement over 2K23. Between EA's game and 2K's, there isn't a big difference between the two.
2K25's career mode is much more robust. There are daily challenges, lots of other challenges, so many different setup options, again, haven't had too much time to really see what all is offered, but plenty of videos on YouTube about it.
The course creator has many additions to it. Not that I will be designing any, but there are some very talented course creators out there that I can see them making some amazing replicas of courses.
The online societies separates the 2K series from EA's. Once they get the bugs worked out with the setup of them, I'll be spending a good deal of time playing in a few different societies.
I love playing golf and I really enjoy a good golf video game. I'll still be firing up EA's game and I am glad that 2K and EA's game both play similarly now, as I can enjoy what both have to offer!
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
thanks for the detailed impressions. I like EA's game but now it's getting to feel antiquated because it's a dead game since they stopped updates.AcemanPR wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 3:29 pmThe IGN review is one person's opinion.Lancer wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:48 pm is the game graphically any better than 2k23 on the full release? Is it even close to EA PGA Tour?
How does it compare to EA's game?
IGN posted a review today but says EA's game is still better than 2K25 -
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/1 ... eview_ign/
'PGA Tour 2K25 is still a few strokes behind EA Sports PGA Tour as the best golfing simulator around, but if it continues to improve like this with each new iteration, we may see it close that gap relatively soon.'
Here is my opinion to your questions above. This is going to be a great compliment to EA's golf game. 2K definitely stepped up their game and made something as much fun, if not more than their rival's game. It's still way too early to completely give in depth knowledge of 2K's game, as it's only been released for a few hours, I only have 2 rounds at TPC Sawgrass and the demo to go by.
First and foremost, I can say the swing mechanics are better in 2K25. It just feels perfect with the Xbox controller. I know exactly if the ball is going to go left, right, or down the middle. This will definitely be the best part of this game for sure. The short game is definitely challenging right now, but I can see HB Studios tweaking things for the non-Advanced release next Friday.
Graphics, 2K25 is a major improvement over 2K23. Between EA's game and 2K's, there isn't a big difference between the two.
2K25's career mode is much more robust. There are daily challenges, lots of other challenges, so many different setup options, again, haven't had too much time to really see what all is offered, but plenty of videos on YouTube about it.
The course creator has many additions to it. Not that I will be designing any, but there are some very talented course creators out there that I can see them making some amazing replicas of courses.
The online societies separates the 2K series from EA's. Once they get the bugs worked out with the setup of them, I'll be spending a good deal of time playing in a few different societies.
I love playing golf and I really enjoy a good golf video game. I'll still be firing up EA's game and I am glad that 2K and EA's game both play similarly now, as I can enjoy what both have to offer!
There is no match to 2K's game online, but offline do you feel like it's the best 2K golf game they've produced? That's great to hear they've included daily challenges. I liked that about EA's game where you had daily/weekly/monthly tourneys.
2K21 is my fav and I thought 2K23 was a step back from it. Hoping 2K25 reaches the heights of 2K21 and even surpasses it.
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
It is simply "Digital Sportspage". I hope you can join it if you're able to find it. I tried joining a society elsewhere and it crashed the game on me on both attempts. I'm hearing others are having the same problem.johnnypark wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:53 pmWhat's the society's name?J_Cauthen wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:31 amI do like the more nuanced intricacies of the EvoSwing, but they are giving me a fit in the short game. I can't feel the velocity of stroke very well with my current golfer. I need to spend time in the practice area working on this because it is killing me right now.Leadfoot5 wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 9:51 am Echoing the same comments. Have been playing the demo off and on all week and spent last night with the full game (set my time zone to New Zealand)
The changes that they made to the swing mechanic are fantastic. I'm seeing parts of courses that I never saw before (e.g. bunkers, rough, etc) and there is no mystery as to why. It's clear what I did wrong and what I need to do to correct. Also, it's very easy to "feel" the improvements when you level up your golfer or clubs. And I think for the first time that I am missing putts for the same reason I would miss them in real life, leaving my clubface open or closed. I mean, I HATE missing what should be an easy 5 foot putt, but there's so much more of a lifelike feel to it now.
Thanks for working to get the Society set up J! Looking forward to teeing it up against you all. -Al
---
3d6-Gaming.com
I did finally get a tournament set, but not everything is finalized. I can't enter a message of the day without the program crashing. What I wanted to say there was I'll run 18 hole daily tournaments until March 5th, until every one has had a chance to buy the standard version of the game. It will give us a chance to figure out what we want in terms of difficulty settings.
I should add that I overlooked the chance to set the society's difficulty settings for this first tournament. It was on default, using perfect swing. I realized it after the first hole and manually changed it to Pro for my player, for the rest of the round. I also turned rhythm off for putting, and the swing bias offset OFF for level lies. I have now set the Society difficulty to pro overall difficulty with some minor tweaks, to accomplish what I described above with the putt rhythm and the level shot bias being turned off. They may not take effect until the next tournament though. If your swing difficulty is set to Perfect Swing, you'll know they haven't though...![]()
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
in societies do you need to play when everyone else is online with you? Or you can play anytime online solo and it'll wait to count it as a final score when everyone else is finished?J_Cauthen wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 4:19 pmIt is simply "Digital Sportspage". I hope you can join it if you're able to find it. I tried joining a society elsewhere and it crashed the game on me on both attempts. I'm hearing others are having the same problem.johnnypark wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 2:53 pmWhat's the society's name?J_Cauthen wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 10:31 am
I do like the more nuanced intricacies of the EvoSwing, but they are giving me a fit in the short game. I can't feel the velocity of stroke very well with my current golfer. I need to spend time in the practice area working on this because it is killing me right now.
I did finally get a tournament set, but not everything is finalized. I can't enter a message of the day without the program crashing. What I wanted to say there was I'll run 18 hole daily tournaments until March 5th, until every one has had a chance to buy the standard version of the game. It will give us a chance to figure out what we want in terms of difficulty settings.
I should add that I overlooked the chance to set the society's difficulty settings for this first tournament. It was on default, using perfect swing. I realized it after the first hole and manually changed it to Pro for my player, for the rest of the round. I also turned rhythm off for putting, and the swing bias offset OFF for level lies. I have now set the Society difficulty to pro overall difficulty with some minor tweaks, to accomplish what I described above with the putt rhythm and the level shot bias being turned off. They may not take effect until the next tournament though. If your swing difficulty is set to Perfect Swing, you'll know they haven't though...![]()
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I've only played about a round and a half at TPC Sawgrass. I am having to remind myself that I really wasn't feeling EA's PGA Tour at first and ended up shelving it for awhile before coming back to it, and eventually really enjoying it. I haven't played 2K since 21, so keeping the EA muscle memory from taking over is a bit of a challenge right now. I like the daily, weekly, monthly, seasonal challenges etc. Something about that "carrot-on-a-stick" always keeps me coming back.
I really wish a game would copy EA's PGA Tour '13 Course Mastery. That always kept me wanting to come back to each course over and over.
Anyway, very [too] early initial impressions are kind of meh right now. I want to really dig in and hope that that changes.
I really wish a game would copy EA's PGA Tour '13 Course Mastery. That always kept me wanting to come back to each course over and over.
Anyway, very [too] early initial impressions are kind of meh right now. I want to really dig in and hope that that changes.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I was able to join and I played.J_Cauthen wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 4:19 pm
It is simply "Digital Sportspage". I hope you can join it if you're able to find it. I tried joining a society elsewhere and it crashed the game on me on both attempts. I'm hearing others are having the same problem.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I absolutely suck at this game on Pro Am, I mean your only options are a golfer who draws or fades the ball, there is no straight shot golfer type. So I chose draw and even when I hit perfects across the board I'm still hitting horrendous shots. So now I need to adjust the shot to "normal" every swing which still isn't exactly straight up and down to even hope for a decent shot. I'm sure it will get better but I can't even imagine what Pro and Master levels are like. I'm not even really sure what results in a closed face, if it was explained I missed it.
Graphically on the PC it is beautiful.
I'm not feeling the career mode at all, EA's game is still far superior in that aspect in my opinion. I don't consider the daily quests and that s*** career mode. In fact I don't even really know how the club house stuff works.
I do like the putting a lot so far.
Official tournaments are still insane its not even 12 hours old and people are shooting -19 for 1 round so that makes those useless.
I think it's a decent game, I feel stupid paying $99 for it thought when it will likely be on sale in 2 months.
Graphically on the PC it is beautiful.
I'm not feeling the career mode at all, EA's game is still far superior in that aspect in my opinion. I don't consider the daily quests and that s*** career mode. In fact I don't even really know how the club house stuff works.
I do like the putting a lot so far.
Official tournaments are still insane its not even 12 hours old and people are shooting -19 for 1 round so that makes those useless.
I think it's a decent game, I feel stupid paying $99 for it thought when it will likely be on sale in 2 months.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
I switched MyPlayers to a fade bias after a half dozen frustrating rounds using draw bias and I've been playing a lot better. Maybe its just the way I move the thumbstick or maybe its just how the game works idk but if you're having issue with the draw bias try switching.
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Re: PGA Tour 2K25
Thanks for that report. It still doesn't present itself the way I'd like to present it, but at least you were able to find it and play. I know one thing, it deleted the first tournament that I set up and played yesterday evening, right before the new patch was implemented. It also wiped out the round I had pending. I set up a new tournament round after the patch and played nine holes of it. I think it's like Huntington Sound, or something like that?
We're getting there but I'll feel a lot better about this once we've confirmed that we are actually having players from all three platforms able to play in the Society events. 2K at least made an effort to fix all of this with the same day patch last night. I've heard they patched the PC and XBox versions for sure, but I haven't heard from anyone receiving it on the PS5 last night.
Re: PGA Tour 2K25
You can play society events by yourself or with other society members. There's built in option to do that in the game now. You have to have at least the minimum Gamepass membership to play live in real time. I had let my Gamepass lapse because I was using it so seldom, but this will likely compel me to become a Gamepass subscriber again.Lancer wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2025 5:38 pm in societies do you need to play when everyone else is online with you? Or you can play anytime online solo and it'll wait to count it as a final score when everyone else is finished?
It looks like you might be able to play without the Gamepass subscription with others in asyncronous play, which works at pretty good in many cases... it moves along at a brisker pace, but it's hard to maintain the order of play with that arrangement. I still used it from time to time.