DiRT Rally

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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by DChaps »

Inaugural DSP "CMR2/Sports Reviewers Memorial" DiRT Rally Championship

Rally 4 - Finland - Final Results

https://www.dirtgame.com/uk/leagues/lea ... dsp-racing

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Overall Standings after 4 Rally's:

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We had our biggest turn out yet with 11 total drivers. Welcome back to Randy, one of the earliest DigitalSportsPage reviewers from way back in the day. It is hard to believe that it has been almost 20 years since I "met" Randy in rec.autos.simulators newsgroups debating the strengths and weaknesses of a sim called "CART Precision Racing". There is some good battling going mid pack now. Nice job Mix!

PS - Damn, Terry.. I always knew you were "The Man" but that is some crazy domination.
Last edited by DChaps on Mon May 16, 2016 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DiRT Rally

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Rally 5 - Germany, Route 1
Vehicle Class: Group B (4WD)
Date range: Monday 05/16/2016 12:00 noon EDT - Monday 05/23/2016 3:00am EDT

Stage: Track: Conditions:
1 Germany, Oberstein (L) Morning / Clear
2 Germany, Frauenberg (L) Midday / Clear
3 Germany, Waldaufstieg (S) Night / Clear
4 Germany, Waldabstieg (S) Morning / Overcast
5 Germany, Kreuzungsring (S) Morning / Rain
6 Germany, Kreuzungsring Reverse (S) Midday / Clear

Full Season Event schedule here:

https://www.dirtgame.com/uk/leagues/vie ... 43/current
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

Thanks, Don....but not really. If you think about it, how many resets or off-tracks does a driver have in a 30 minute rally? If you have 4 or 5, you lose a minute to a minute thirty right there. In a rally like this especially, where it's easy to catch a jump wrong and fly into a tree, you can have multiple collisions in a stage, you lose tens of seconds per incident.

I tried to twitch so that my full rally was captured, but I had too many server issues trying to finish that first rally so I killed it. I also ran it like 3 more times attempting to get the time to "upload".

I put that stage here, though:

https://www.twitch.tv/rockjawmcgraw/v/66078649?t=0m48s

Throughout that video, I try to not put the car at the edge of control. I think that's where Rally games are so hard. You want to push so hard to get a better time, and you attack a corner. It's not circuit racing where you can memorize a track, so you're left with 2 choices: lose 20 seconds per incident, or lose a second by slowing down and being cautious. My rule of thumb is to downshift a gear UNDER the higher values (4th gear for a "5" corner, 5th for a "6"), and over gearing for the low values. A hairpin would be 2nd gear, a 2 would be 3rd gear, an acute is about the only thing I hit 1st in.

But I'm the opposite on exit. I short shift it to overgear on the exit of corners and through rhythm sections. I do NOT want the tires breaking traction through a sweeping section or drifting through a 5 unless I know that corner well (which I hardly ever do). Also, on jumps, I slow down to avoid catching big air....it feels great when you catch an insane amount of air, but two things happen: the tires aren't in contact with the ground, so you have no forward bite, and the landing will tear your car up, and frequently lead to an out-of-control pucker factor moment. I'd rather keep the wheels planted, so jumps aren't very frequent for me.

But through most of that twitch archive (outside of 2 obvious screw ups, I think), I just keep the car puttering along at a controlled pace, trying not to screw myself by wrecking or flipping it around by undergearing an exit or punching the gas too hard.

I think most of us would be surprised at how much quicker the time is when you go slower. I know the adage "go slow to go fast" is something everybody's heard, but that's the most coherent way I can explain it. Keep the gearing and throttle manageable, and even if you have to putt-putt into a corner that you're unsure of, that's a hell of a lot better than plowing it into a tree.
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Re: DiRT Rally

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'Welcome back to Randy, one of the earliest DigitalSportsPage reviewers from way back in the day. It is hard to believe that it has been almost 20 years since I "met" Randy in rec.autos.simulators newsgroups debating the strengths and weaknesses of a sim called "CART Precision Racing".'

Has it been 20 years?! Wow, CPR...the memories....and oh yeah, the weaknesses of THAT title (so many to choose from!)

Anyway, it's great to come 'home' and find people haven't totally forgotten the good times :)

Clearly, there's a lot of rust in my Rallying. Sadly, I haven't invested much time into this kind of racing since one of my all-time-favorite titles: Mobil 1 Racing (the British Rally game) a long time ago. Now Shawn (fshguy) is stopping by my cubicle to talk smack at me about my dismal performances, so I guess I'm going to have to get serious here!

GREAT TO SEE YOU ALL AGAIN!
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by Fshguy »

rmagruder wrote:I suck... badly :)
Fixed it for you...
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by rmagruder »

??????
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

I hear you, Randy. I've been using a controller, but I hate it. I just dug my wheel out of the garage for Rally 5, though. Now it'll probably screw me up going from one control method to another, but there's something very foreign about racing with just a controller to me. You get used to what works, and learn to create a smooth line, but it's nothing like using a wheel.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by rmagruder »

Yeah I think you nailed it. I am still trying to figure out why it is that in the long break I've had since being a racing sim junkie, FFB wheels have gotten stupid expensive. You used to be able to get a decent FFB wheel for < $150. Now all the name brands are charging $300+. I did see a TM $199 one for the Xbox One and it's gotten good reviews so I'll probably get that and a stand this summer.

In the meantime, I'll just try to keep the fishtailing under control with the game controller. I just don't feel.....'grounded', and certainly not 'smooth' with a gamepad.

Btw, what the heck is up with 70's turbo car (Fiat?) that, if you go 'round a hairpin too slow, bogs down and literally won't rev until you straighten the wheel? Do they have a funny throttle 'cut' switch that says "thou shall not go until thou straightens thy wheel"?? :)

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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

I didn't notice anything weird with the Fiat, and I ran Rally 2 with it. Not sure if you had any assists on (intentionally or not), but I had an issue when TCS was enabled, it somehow turned that into "I will not accelerate" instead. Something low weight and power like the Fiat could treat it like that, perhaps.

And which TM wheel? I've got the TX Wheel and it's really an amazing piece of tech. The fact that they don't make one for all consoles anymore pisses me off, but that and the T300RS are basically the same wheel for XBox One and PS4. There's no way around spending a boatload of cash if you're getting a FF wheel for the new consoles, though.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by rmagruder »

Actually it was the Renault 5 Turbo, not a Fiat,.

the Wheel is the Thrustmaster TMX Force Feedback wheel for Xbox One and Windows. Seems to have gotten decent reviews and it's not exorbitant.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

Pedals look a little dicey on that one, but better than a gamepad, for sure.

What I'd recommend in the interim is go down to Gamestop and get these little "Kontrol Freek" stick add-ons:

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-one/access ... ure/121111

If you have to play a racing game with a controller and don't want to drop $150 for the elite, those are the next best thing. It feels weird at first, but that taller stick makes all the difference in a racing game. I could hold a line at Daytona in NASCAR with those things, whereas the default shorter sticks are murder in a racing game.

I'm still going to go back to using my racing setup for Rally 5 (Thrustmaster TX Italia Wheel, TH8A shifter, and T3PA-Pro pedals), but I've run the first 4 rallies with a controller using a taller stick. You'd be surprised at how much that helps.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by DChaps »

I can't recommend the Thrustmaster TX Racing Wheel Ferrari 458 Italia Edition enough. Yes, somewhat pricey at $299 on Amazon, but it is fantastic with all the Forza games on One, DiRT, F1 2015, etc. and works well on the PC. Best thing about it is the expandability. New pedals, shifter, F1 wheel, GT wheel, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Raci ... tmaster+tx

http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/produ ... s&tid=1017
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

Agreed--I'd spend the extra $$$ on the TX, personally. And I have all of their add-ons except the F1 wheel, and the GT is pretty cool (albeit a bit heavier than I like).
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by rmagruder »

Well, the thing is, the TMX does let you add on TM pedals as well as the shifter later. The only thing you can't upgrade is the wheel itself. I also need to buy a stand so there's that. The question is whether the TX wheel is so much better. I still have some time to ponder.

Thanks for the info about the taller sticks. I will think about it.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

I'd research the base itself, yeah. Since the wheel rims are usually a replaceable unit, if the base is the same as the bigger models and their $$$ savings are on the pedals, then yeah. No issues there. Wasn't sure if the TMX would have the same pedal jack as the T500/TX/T300RS (I have all 3, and the pedals work on all 3), but if it does, then the pedals are a non-issue.

I know that the T500 had a notchier feel to it, whereas the TX and T300RS are the best FF Wheels I've ever owned. So I'd look and see what the base is actually running, and that's OK with you, then sure--the modular stuff is great.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

I'm going to start Twitch broadcasting each rally and then just archiving it, for anybody interested. Pictures do better than words, as far as explaining stuff. I DID use the TX Wheel last night for the first time, which certainly helped the feel (but didn't help me make fewer mistakes, naturally :lol: ).

https://www.twitch.tv/rockjawmcgraw/v/67457505

If it helps anyone, great. If it doesn't, I'll stop doing it. This game is just brutal enough as it is lol
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by Wilk5280 »

I crashed and burned hard this morning early on the 2nd stage. Bad enough to withdraw :(
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by rmagruder »

Thanks for posting that Twitch. What configuration are you using for launching. I honestly didn't even look at launching much.

Very positive and assertive with gear selection. I am still a bit schizophrenic in gear selection and it causes me to row the gears too much. I also did the last Rally on full auto to work on car control and hairpins. Next one will be full manual again.

It didn't really look like you used the handbrake at all?

Otherwise, overall a very smooth, confident run on your part. Great job!
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

I'm semi-embarrassed, but I don't even know how to answer the first question. Configuration? I have the handbrake assigned to the left "Red" button on the 599XX EVO 30 rim for the TX base. Then I try to keep the tach around 6000 (for that car, at least), because that seemed to be where I found the best traction on acceleration. It's much easier with the 4WD cars, naturally. Just dump the clutch and go. But as far as that launch assist or something, I have that off, if that's what you mean?

Personally, I don't use the handbrake, you're right. I used it some when I was using the controller, but with the wheel, all it does is screw me up. If I slow down and gear appropriately, I'm faster coming out without it than I am with it. I'll inevitably get a wiggle or fishtail where I go to far, and it's hard to hit with my left hand. If I had a handbrake mod down by my shifter, maybe I'd use it...and I know I'd be faster with it, but my focus is always (attempting) to be precise. Handbrake just means I pushed into the corner faster than I'd need to to get a smooth line around it, so I avoid it.

Thanks, Randy!
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Re: DiRT Rally

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Inaugural DSP "CMR2/Sports Reviewers Memorial" DiRT Rally Championship

Rally 5 - Germany - Final Results

https://www.dirtgame.com/uk/leagues/lea ... dsp-racing

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Overall Standings after 5 Rally's:

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I ended up planning my week poorly and missed posting any times which is sad because I did practice some for this one. A decent battle still for 5th spot with one rally left to go. I am glad to see the continued participation.

PS - As we end this 6 week season, Let me know your thoughts on what you liked and did not like. Was 6 stages enough? Do you want more per week, less? Do you want to enable setups and engineers? Vary conditions more, less. Stick with vehicle class or keep the variation? Have a lotto and assign cars and teams? Do you want Stage retry's and Event retry's (personally I am against them, but I will go with what the consensus is). Any ideas to keep this going and make it enjoyable/competitive are welcome.
Last edited by DChaps on Mon May 23, 2016 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by AcemanPR »

Good to see I am getting a little more competitive.

I think 6 stages a week is perfect. I'll race the stages no matter what the options are.

Not sure when you'll start up the next season, but I won't be able to race for two weeks in June, as my oldest son and I will be hiking 73 miles in New Mexico for Boy Scouts. The Xbox One is just to heavy to lug around for that amount of distance. :mrgreen:
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by TCrouch »

Holy crap, Ace, nice! My wife is training for a Mount Whitney hike in less than a month...73 miles sounds mind-blowing. Major props.

And Don--the only recommendation I'd make is not so much stages, but maybe distance variations. We consistently had a "Long" stage on 1 and 2, then a bunch of sprints on 3-6. It'd be cool to start with a sprint, then a long, another couple sprints, etc. I don't care about the number of stages (and I'm thoroughly against restarts, as well).

I don't really care about engineers or setups as I never touch a setup anyway...until I can get every ounce of speed out of a stock setup, trying to adjust it is pointless for me. And I routinely botch 25 corners per stage, so I'm well off the need for any setup stuff.

The lotto and random team/car would be interesting.

I would REALLY like to see a full season of one car before moving to the next, though. I think with a game this difficult, guys will see the most improvement going from rally to rally and having a predictable handling model as they move forward. I know it takes me several runs in a car to even begin to feel like I'm coming to grips with it, so changing cars every week is really stunting learning and that sense of accomplishment, IMO.

Dirt Rally is the Dark Souls of racing games. The more consistent we can get in attacking a particular car/course, the better we get. But when we go from a heavy, low horsepower slug to a fast and heavy slug to a 4WD B class car to a 00's speed machine, it's going to be tough to really come to grips with what's going on under the hood. I can totally see what you were aiming for, starting slow and going fast, but some of the "middle ground" cars at least offer some speed with some ability to get loose with it, without having to relearn everything a week later.

I think this is the perfect DSP racing game. It doesn't require a massive time commitment, we can run them as we can, and it's really just about seat time and learning. I think varying the stage setup would really help to add some variety into it. And as far as engineers go, I have no idea--but if that means dudes who have done a bunch of career racing and have a better team can end up doing better than casual guys who just hop on and mash the gas, I would be against that. I like the fixed setup options.

If nothing else, choosing sort of a fixed "vehicle" might make it cool, but that's harder to do. Everybody has a car that they'd prefer, and other than the Peugeot, where it was the lightest AND highest HP car, there weren't any standouts that seemed head and shoulders better than the other ones, so far.

Thanks again for putting this together, as I hadn't touched Dirt Rally hardly at all on PC, but once this started it feels like it's just about all I do now :lol:
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by Zeppo »

That one was frustrating for me. I was confident going in but I just started really poorly and it kept getting worse.

Anyway, format-wise I think you have it right. Six stages is a good number, enough to get done when I don't have a lot of time but also enough to feel like more than a quick sprint. I don't think we want setups. I haven't touched them yet at all in the game, and I worry that opening them up would also open up the vehicle upgrades which I think would be very unfair. Let's make sure to keep vehicle upgrades out of our league. And also engineer teams. Those items would only benefit those who have put more time in the game, and as it is those players will be better anyway on a fully even playing field, so I'm against both of those features. I'm also 100% against any re-dos.

The only one thing I would mention is that I'd prefer you save the longer stages of each rally for the middle or the end of the rally rather than starting each rally off with the two longest stages. I like the longer stages being in the mix, but it would be nice to get a few shorter sprints under our belts before diving into the marathon stages. Also unkeash your creativity when it comes to stage selection! You seem to fall into a pattern of one stage, then its reverse, a different stage then its reverse, and so on. It's not very important but why not mix it up!

Also I like the mixing up of car classes from rally to rally. No need for us to be stuck in one class for a long stretch.

Thanks for setting this up! I honestly thought I wouldn't be able to find the time to do this, but so far it's worked out. Although this week I may not be able to participate. We'll see.
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by Fshguy »

Format has been great... No setups or engineers... And never the RWD Group B car....

How about two weeks of the same car and then rotate to pivot off of Terry's suggestion?
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Re: DiRT Rally

Post by pk500 »

DIRT Rally on sale for $44.99 this week in Xbox Store.

https://store.xbox.com/en-US/Xbox-One/G ... ajornelson
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