The really great TV thread

[Naples39]

I'm guessing he stops the chemo. It lets the cancer spread, but makes him more physically able in the short term.

As for what he's trying to accomplish, there's the selfish motivation of killing the Nazis that took his money, there's his family, and there's helping Jesse who he's always looked out for. The selfish motivation was taking over this season, and is definitely still present because he got so pissed off by his former colleagues on TV, but the only way the audience will tolerate him is if he puts family first and Jesse second. Getting money to his family somehow wouldn't hurt too, but I don't know how he could do that.

Rob's prediction is more or less what I expect.

[dbdynsty25]

I just don't see any scenario where he would want to save Jesse at all. Sure, he might "free" him by killing the Nazis, but Jesse's betrayal pretty much ended his son-like relationship with Walt. He could care less that he's a prisoner at this point, but I suppose the only thing that might even get a bit of sympathy from Walt is Andrea's slaying and Brock now being an Orphan. But I'm not sure how Walt even finds out about that at this point. So many ways this can go obviously...and that makes a good show.

[wco81]

Andrea's killing seemed to have upset a lot of people and many want to blame Walt. Well his actions set a lot of this in motion but Jesse went off half-cocked, trying to get captured, then trying to burn Walt's house, then ratting out Walt, then trying to set up Walt.

It's not a coincidence that Jane and Andrea died after meeting Jesse.

Similarly, Hank went way beyond doing his job. His superiors repeatedly told him to drop it but his ego couldn't stand that someone got away with something under his watch. He wasn't trying to stop all drugs, just wanted to catch the big fish, the blue meth.

Even after he found out, he pursued the case off the books, trying to wrap it up in the nice package. By the time he caught on to Walt, Walt was out of the game and trying to stay out. And as he pointed out, Walt was terminal at that point.

Every character breaks bad to a certain extent. Walt goes farther than anyone else but everyone wants to dump all the blame on him.

[RobVarak]

Every character breaks bad to a certain extent.

This is absolutely one of the themes of the series. Whether it's Marie's stealing, Hank's beating of Jesse or skirting the orders of his superiors, Skylar's affair and cooking of Ted's books... They clearly make the point that Walt goes the farthest over the line, but all of these people (and all of us) are willing to lie to ourselves and act in an immoral (or at least amoral) manner given the right stimulus.

I was so glad to see them bring the whole Gray Matter aspect back up before the end. That's always been a slightly under-explored aspect of Walt's motivation. I wonder though if his reaction wasn't a bit of a red herring. Many suggesting he's going to machine gun his former friends. But I wonder if Gretchen's words, while ostensibly angering Walt, didn't actually hit home a bit. He had already realized that his goal of helping his family was lost, maybe hearing a former lover say that the man she loved was gone was a reminder to him of his pre-Heisenberg self?

[pk500]

I was watching my son's middle-school soccer game this afternoon and talking "Breaking Bad" with one of the dads who's a buddy of mine. He pinpointed how everyone in the show is evil to some degree.

We both agreed "Breaking Bad" is the Baskin-Robbins of evil -- 31 different flavors, all tasty.

[vader29]

[snaz16]

I just don't see any scenario where he would want to save Jesse at all. Sure, he might "free" him by killing the Nazis, but Jesse's betrayal pretty much ended his son-like relationship with Walt. He could care less that he's a prisoner at this point, but I suppose the only thing that might even get a bit of sympathy from Walt is Andrea's slaying and Brock now being an Orphan. But I'm not sure how Walt even finds out about that at this point. So many ways this can go obviously...and that makes a good show.

I was under the impression that the newspapers Walt received a month later at the cabin and he had cut out and posted on the walls in the cabin, would have led him to know that Andrea was killed (even though they didn't show Walt reading that,but this show keeps you guessing.) triggering his anger. As Hank said,he was the smartest man he knew. Perhaps Walt put two and two together.

[dbdynsty25]

I was under the impression that the newspapers Walt received a month later at the cabin and he had cut out and posted on the walls in the cabin, would have led him to know that Andrea was killed (even though they didn't show Walt reading that,but this show keeps you guessing.) triggering his anger. As Hank said,he was the smartest man he knew. Perhaps Walt put two and two together.

But who cares? He let Jane die, and didn't give a crap, even going as far as rubbing it in Jesse's face. Andrea dying clearly won't motivate Walt to do a damn thing with regards to "saving" him at least. Jesse cooking his Blue and making sure his family is taken care of (thus getting his money back from the Nazis) are really the only motivations I can see now. Grey Matter is probably just a little throwback and we'll see if any motivation and end game comes from that. Holy crap I cannot wait till Sunday.

[snaz16]

I was under the impression that the newspapers Walt received a month later at the cabin and he had cut out and posted on the walls in the cabin, would have led him to know that Andrea was killed (even though they didn't show Walt reading that,but this show keeps you guessing.) triggering his anger. As Hank said,he was the smartest man he knew. Perhaps Walt put two and two together.

But who cares? He let Jane die, and didn't give a crap, even going as far as rubbing it in Jesse's face. Andrea dying clearly won't motivate Walt to do a damn thing with regards to "saving" him at least. Jesse cooking his Blue and making sure his family is taken care of (thus getting his money back from the Nazis) are really the only motivations I can see now. Grey Matter is probably just a little throwback and we'll see if any motivation and end game comes from that. Holy crap I cannot wait till Sunday.

I don't think he ever liked Jane from the get go. Andrea on the other hand,a single mother raising a kid and such,but who knows you might be right. He did seem to get over the kid that Todd shot rather quickly writing it off as "just business".
On a side note,,AMC starts all 61 episode marathon tomorrow.

[wco81]

Well Walt and Jesse left on bad terms.

Walt told him about Jane after handing him over to the Nazis after Jesse spat in his face.

This was right after the trauma of having Hank murdered in front of him and having most of his money taken from him. He may even blame Jesse for losing it (trying to get himself caught, trying to burn his house, working with Hank to try to put him away, etc. Maybe blame Jesse for getting Hank killed, separating him from his family.

But if he came across Jesse as he deals with the Nazis, he could feel differently.

[pk500]

Any other "Boardwalk Empire" fans think this show has jumped the shark this season? All of these new characters and storylines are dull.

I miss Jimmy Darmody. I miss Gyp Rosetti. I miss Owen Slater. I miss Margaret Thompson. I miss Nucky being at war. I miss tension in the story.

This season better ignite in the next week or two, or I'm done. Just seems like Terence Winter is lost as a showrunner with this series.

[RobVarak]

It's suffered forever from a form over substance problem. They've got all these great actors, sets and design, and some fascinating characters, but there just isn't a compelling story.

Killing Darmody was a huge mistake. I never understood it until recently, as apparently the actor was in a got-to-go situation because of his ego and on-set behavior. That was the only thing that made sense. He was the closest thing to a genuine protagonist in the show.

Last season was patched together because Gyp was such a great character and so compellingly played, but that was no substitute for a great story.

[greggsand]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/963 ... re-returns

Andy Greenwald simply nailed it. Boardwalk has always been great to 'look at', but seemed to always be missing 'something'. I think it all starts with Buscmemi. He's dialed it down so far, there's nothing fun or interesting about his character anymore. It's almost like they decided to throw as many new people into the cast to distract viewers from the fact the lead of the show has been 'breaking boring' this whole time.

[wco81]

Guess there is no overarching narrative arc. It started out telling the story of a lesser-known gangster, who was a contemporary of a young Capone.

So he runs Atlantic City for awhile, has some challenges and then gets back on top.

It seems like the show is setting up a showdown against the Jeffery Daniels character but he doesn't come across instantly as menacing as Rosetti. Even if he does, the show is lurching from one boss battle to another.

Well Sopranos was criticized in the later seasons for dialing down the violence, turning to the domestic squabbles and Tony's emotional problems.

Nucky doesn't dwell on personal issues, no shrink back in those days. He probably could use a foil or two but it looks like they're telling Chalky White's story as a separate track, until they both have to deal with the black gangster.

Obvious end game would be the end of Prohibition and how Nucky deals or fails to deal with the loss of his business. Though I guess some other gangsters are getting into harder drugs.

[pk500]

The Nucky-goes-to-Tampa story arc is yet another distraction. I'm just about to give up on "Boardwalk."

[pk500]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/963 ... re-returns

Andy Greenwald simply nailed it. Boardwalk has always been great to 'look at', but seemed to always be missing 'something'. I think it all starts with Buscmemi. He's dialed it down so far, there's nothing fun or interesting about his character anymore. It's almost like they decided to throw as many new people into the cast to distract viewers from the fact the lead of the show has been 'breaking boring' this whole time.

Greenwald is the brightest, most perceptive, least pretentious TV writer in America. Read most of his pieces, and his podcasts on Grantland are superb, too.

[Diablo25]

Any other "Boardwalk Empire" fans think this show has jumped the shark this season? All of these new characters and storylines are dull.

I miss Jimmy Darmody. I miss Gyp Rosetti. I miss Owen Slater. I miss Margaret Thompson. I miss Nucky being at war. I miss tension in the story.

This season better ignite in the next week or two, or I'm done. Just seems like Terence Winter is lost as a showrunner with this series.

I was a huge Darmody and Rosetti fan and they are both gone. It has been somewhat stale sine season 2. Hoping it picks up.

[Naples39]

I've been watching Boardwalk Empire through last season, and the show never quite gets over the hump for me. It feels like it doesn't know where it wants to go.

I guess I'm in the minority too on Gyp. I thought he was cartoonishly volatile, to the point where it lessened his intrigue to me.

[RobVarak]

I guess I'm in the minority too on Gyp. I thought he was cartoonishly volatile, to the point where it lessened his intrigue to me.

I was definitely in that camp until the episode where Bugsy Segal tries to off him while he's getting asphyxiated. From that point until the end I was won over by Cannavale's unbelievably raw performance. The last scene he had with Gretchen Mol was a jaw dropper.

They just can't put moments like that into the service of a better overall story, which is a shame.

[pk500]

I guess I'm in the minority too on Gyp. I thought he was cartoonishly volatile, to the point where it lessened his intrigue to me.

I was definitely in that camp until the episode where Bugsy Segal tries to off him while he's getting asphyxiated. From that point until the end I was won over by Cannavale's unbelievably raw performance. The last scene he had with Gretchen Mol was a jaw dropper.

They just can't put moments like that into the service of a better overall story, which is a shame.[/quote]

As much as I love "Breaking Bad," I was one of the seven TV drama aficionados who had no problem with Cannavale winning the Emmy over the brilliant Aaron Paul. Cannavale OWNED "Boardwalk" and its very strong ensemble cast last season.

[fsquid]

loving house of cards through 4 episodes.

[greggsand]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/963 ... re-returns

Andy Greenwald simply nailed it. Boardwalk has always been great to 'look at', but seemed to always be missing 'something'. I think it all starts with Buscmemi. He's dialed it down so far, there's nothing fun or interesting about his character anymore. It's almost like they decided to throw as many new people into the cast to distract viewers from the fact the lead of the show has been 'breaking boring' this whole time.

Greenwald is the brightest, most perceptive, least pretentious TV writer in America. Read most of his pieces, and his podcasts on Grantland are superb, too.

100% agree with that. Greenwald & Alan Sepinwall are the best in the biz.

[pk500]

Sepinwall has written his recaps from a hospital bed the last two weeks because he suffered a burst appendix. That's dedication to the craft!

[webdanzer]

100% agree with that. Greenwald & Alan Sepinwall are the best in the biz.

Agreed, but I like Sepinwall better than Greenwald by a tad. Greenwald stretches too much at times to be clever with witty references and extended metaphors. He IS clever and witty, but sometimes it feels like he proofs the page, counts the number of witticisms present, decides there is not enough, and goes back to shoehorn a few more in. It's a heavy author's pen that sometimes detracts from his work. Reminds me of Joss Whedon, where his characters stop being characters sometimes in order to execute one of Joss's witty banter sections. Sometimes Andy needs a editor to tell him to knock it off already.

Still, yes, two must reads!

[RobVarak]

Matt Zoller Seitz is another must-read for me. His Mad Men recaps in particular are the first thing I read after every episode. He's always solid, though. Not flashy but thoughtful and a nice concise prose style.

For example:

http://www.vulture.com/2013/09/seitz-11 ... sodes.html