I think EA's stranglehold on the market is theirs to keep unless they screw it up themselves. They've established their name for so long now that people pick up Madden simple because of name recognition of it and of EA Sports. You're not just battling this years hype an PR, your fighting a tradition of it. Releasing a superior title for multiple years will win over the hardcore crowd, but until that translates down to negative pr for EA/Madden (ie. Madden name is widely known as an inferior product), it can continue to hold its spot. Madden took its biggest blows first from Sony and Gameday 98, then with Sega and NFL2k. It came back with a vengence on the PS2 though, and it is back in a very comfortable position as far as name recognition.
Someone mentioned Sega should go after the advantages of the Xbox even further. I wonder how much this would help Sega in the long run. Their product is already considered to have better Xbox versions than PS2 counterparts for most of their games. I think this can significantly hurt PS2 sales. People with PS2's stray away from Sega titles because they feel that they are getting an inferior version of their product. Widening the gap in their quality could definitely boost Xbox sales, but PS2 sales are still where the majority of $$$ is to be made... Tough call though, if producing a game designed specifically for the Xbox helps them to take a leap to be greatly considered the best game on the market, then its definitely worth it.
EA definitely has the resources to go after the power of the Xbox, but they seem content to make sure their PS2 keeps pace.
Is ESPN / SEGA really intouch with the Sports gamer?
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Bill_Abner
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There is a huge difference between EA's Madden Cards and Sega's Crib thingy. EA can afford to waste development money. Sega can't. Madden outsells ESPN by a huge, huge margin. I think this kind of thing lacks focus. Sure there are some nifty new features that we have no idea yet if they'll work, but the minute I see a major flaw with the game I'll go back to--maybe if they focused on the game and not the Crib? Right or wrong, that's where I'll go.
You think Carmen whatever her name is and the guy from Scream are doing this for free? It's not only a waste of development money for a company with limited development funds, but it's a waste of licensing as well. Sega will never, ever, catch EA in sales as long as EA WANTS to be the king. EA Sports has convinced the average joe that they are the only sports game company on the planet.
The new Crib stuff won't make a slight dent in EA's stranglehold, so I just wish Sega would focus all of its attention on the game and not get sidetracked. They cannot afford to.
You think Carmen whatever her name is and the guy from Scream are doing this for free? It's not only a waste of development money for a company with limited development funds, but it's a waste of licensing as well. Sega will never, ever, catch EA in sales as long as EA WANTS to be the king. EA Sports has convinced the average joe that they are the only sports game company on the planet.
The new Crib stuff won't make a slight dent in EA's stranglehold, so I just wish Sega would focus all of its attention on the game and not get sidetracked. They cannot afford to.
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I have to go with bill on this one.
They can't afford to mess around with things that aren't going to sell.
And to whoever said it surpassed Madden. Are you nuts. Madden is sucking donkey nuts because it can't surpass itself because it will milk it's good thing until the next consoles come out. Madden has just grown stale for us to love, but it is a very complete game of football. ESPN football is typical Sega/VC games. Great features, possibly great gameplay except for...
I'm excited that they are getting rid of the turn in midstride animations. But a lot more needed to get down. I don't think ESPN football has ever reached a level or above average. But it is so highly respected because what else are you going to play if you hate Madden, Fever?
I'm hoping NCAA is loads of fun. I'm talking MVP fun without all the bugs. If it can, that game will do quite nicely.
They can't afford to mess around with things that aren't going to sell.
And to whoever said it surpassed Madden. Are you nuts. Madden is sucking donkey nuts because it can't surpass itself because it will milk it's good thing until the next consoles come out. Madden has just grown stale for us to love, but it is a very complete game of football. ESPN football is typical Sega/VC games. Great features, possibly great gameplay except for...
I'm excited that they are getting rid of the turn in midstride animations. But a lot more needed to get down. I don't think ESPN football has ever reached a level or above average. But it is so highly respected because what else are you going to play if you hate Madden, Fever?
I'm hoping NCAA is loads of fun. I'm talking MVP fun without all the bugs. If it can, that game will do quite nicely.
For what it's worth, I've got to respectfully disagree with you guys. I think VC's new VIP feature could be the best thing to come to videogame football in 20 years. Games against celebrities may not seem like that big of a deal to you, but what if you combine it with being able to play against the VIP "profile" of someone like Jerome Bettis, or even Peyton Manning?
C'mon fellas, again, with due respect, think outside of the box on this one. Maybe David Arquette and Carmen Electra are some of the only "celebrities" that you will be able to play in the game, right out of the box. But if people are going to be able to post their player "profile" online, so that you can play up against some of the top players in the world, or your next week's opponent in your online league, then I'm sure that VC may be able to work it so that other "celebrities" post their profile during the course of the season. The replay factor this could add to the game could be phenomenal. And if that's not possible to do this year (i.e., adding new celebrities during the course of the season), then maybe it's something they'll be able to do a couple of years down the road.
Maybe I'm way off on this one, but I gotta believe that there's a few people kicking themselves over at EA, thinking "why didn't we come up with this VIP thing first?" Instead, EA is going to spend this season going through the learning pains that come with its first year on XBox Live. I kind've like where Sega/VC/ESPN is sitting on this one.
I said this on another board, but I also think it's equally appropriate here. Give some people First Person Football, and actually allow them to get a realistic feeling or sense of what it must be like down on the field, and they call it a gimmick. Give them something that allows them to practice against some of the best players in the world, and they're not crazy about that new feature either. But give 'em a Hit Stick or some new John and Al commentary, and they act like God Himself came down and showed the world all the best that videogame football has to offer. I just don't get it.
C'mon fellas, again, with due respect, think outside of the box on this one. Maybe David Arquette and Carmen Electra are some of the only "celebrities" that you will be able to play in the game, right out of the box. But if people are going to be able to post their player "profile" online, so that you can play up against some of the top players in the world, or your next week's opponent in your online league, then I'm sure that VC may be able to work it so that other "celebrities" post their profile during the course of the season. The replay factor this could add to the game could be phenomenal. And if that's not possible to do this year (i.e., adding new celebrities during the course of the season), then maybe it's something they'll be able to do a couple of years down the road.
Maybe I'm way off on this one, but I gotta believe that there's a few people kicking themselves over at EA, thinking "why didn't we come up with this VIP thing first?" Instead, EA is going to spend this season going through the learning pains that come with its first year on XBox Live. I kind've like where Sega/VC/ESPN is sitting on this one.
I said this on another board, but I also think it's equally appropriate here. Give some people First Person Football, and actually allow them to get a realistic feeling or sense of what it must be like down on the field, and they call it a gimmick. Give them something that allows them to practice against some of the best players in the world, and they're not crazy about that new feature either. But give 'em a Hit Stick or some new John and Al commentary, and they act like God Himself came down and showed the world all the best that videogame football has to offer. I just don't get it.
Hobbes,
You don't get it and VC doesn't get it. EA sports does. Maybe they do extensive market research to find out what gamers will buy.
VC just seems to put a lot of stuff in their game that doesn't have buy appeal. I lot of people bought Madden because of the playmaker feature. Granted it was pretty unrevolutionary but it sold games. I think consumers know that a VIP feature is a frill not a feature that is going to impact the way they play the game.
If ESPN thinks that it's going to sell games because David Arquette is in the game then they should get out of the game business.
To me VC/Sega/ESPN are moving away from what made them so great. Revolutionary gameplay. Instead they are trying to beat EA Sports where EA Sports is the best. Instead if ESPN games concentrated on the most complete gameplay experience I really think they would sell more games. If they started with dynamic on the field gameplay where every football games felt different and you actually had to think to beat the AI, I think a lot of people would jump on board. Next the franchise mode. ESPN ever since the DC has had a subpar franchise mode. Stats were off, some of it was simplistic or unnessary. Others were good but not expanded upon. In the end ESPN games were good excpet for...
I'm going to go back to one game, Winning Eleven. Good gameplay few frills and options yet it rivals FIFA in sales. ESPN can't beat EA Sports on features but it can in gameplay. The execs at ESPN seem to miss on point. Madden has remained the same for years, surely that has provided on opputunity for another football to offer a better experience. If this was football and the Colts were playing the Patrioits and Manning called the same 5 plays over and over again, the patriots could stop them. ESPN hasn't ever really got all of it's eggs together on the field and that leaves a bigger opening for Madden to run through.
You don't get it and VC doesn't get it. EA sports does. Maybe they do extensive market research to find out what gamers will buy.
VC just seems to put a lot of stuff in their game that doesn't have buy appeal. I lot of people bought Madden because of the playmaker feature. Granted it was pretty unrevolutionary but it sold games. I think consumers know that a VIP feature is a frill not a feature that is going to impact the way they play the game.
If ESPN thinks that it's going to sell games because David Arquette is in the game then they should get out of the game business.
To me VC/Sega/ESPN are moving away from what made them so great. Revolutionary gameplay. Instead they are trying to beat EA Sports where EA Sports is the best. Instead if ESPN games concentrated on the most complete gameplay experience I really think they would sell more games. If they started with dynamic on the field gameplay where every football games felt different and you actually had to think to beat the AI, I think a lot of people would jump on board. Next the franchise mode. ESPN ever since the DC has had a subpar franchise mode. Stats were off, some of it was simplistic or unnessary. Others were good but not expanded upon. In the end ESPN games were good excpet for...
I'm going to go back to one game, Winning Eleven. Good gameplay few frills and options yet it rivals FIFA in sales. ESPN can't beat EA Sports on features but it can in gameplay. The execs at ESPN seem to miss on point. Madden has remained the same for years, surely that has provided on opputunity for another football to offer a better experience. If this was football and the Colts were playing the Patrioits and Manning called the same 5 plays over and over again, the patriots could stop them. ESPN hasn't ever really got all of it's eggs together on the field and that leaves a bigger opening for Madden to run through.
On all the sports gaming forums right now, people are debating all the info. about the upcoming games. One common theme is features versus gameplay enhancements. There are people who are excited about the new features to the franchise modes while others would prefer that they fix gameplay issues rather than do something like "Create a Fan" that Madden is apparently going to do.
The hardcore multiplayer gamer usually want the companies to concentrate on gameplay while the franchise mode people care about more player management options.
Both EA and Sega seem to have frivolous features (Madden Cards versus Crib). I don't really pay attention to them myself but it's a lot easier to market features than something more difficult to describe like better pass defense AI. You can actually put feature lists on the game box whereas saying "better gameplay" is just not that descriptive.
I don't know if Sega can increase their market share with these MTV celebrities. We should just be greatful that they can sell enough product every year to keep developing, which is more than Microsoft and 989 can say.
The hardcore multiplayer gamer usually want the companies to concentrate on gameplay while the franchise mode people care about more player management options.
Both EA and Sega seem to have frivolous features (Madden Cards versus Crib). I don't really pay attention to them myself but it's a lot easier to market features than something more difficult to describe like better pass defense AI. You can actually put feature lists on the game box whereas saying "better gameplay" is just not that descriptive.
I don't know if Sega can increase their market share with these MTV celebrities. We should just be greatful that they can sell enough product every year to keep developing, which is more than Microsoft and 989 can say.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree, JRod. I hear what you're saying, but I agree with WCO. Pretty tough to find new ways to say "Improved Gameplay" on the back of a videogame box every year. One of these days, people are going to walk into their local EB in Aug./Sept., pick up the new Madden and see "New and Improved Commentary From John & Al," "New Madden Cards," "Improved Offensive and Defensive Line Play," and "Hit Stick," and say, "Ya know, I wonder what one of these other games has to offer this year."
May not be this year or next, but that day will come. Companies like Wal Mart, Microsoft and EA can't stay as big as they are forever. Sooner or later, some company is going to knock them off. Almost happened the first year on PS1, when EA couldn't get a respectable Madden product out and had to sit a year out. But it may never happen if a company like VC/ESPN isn't willing to push the envelope in a DIFFERENT direction..like being able to download Michael Vick's VIP profile to see what it might be like to play him in a game of ESPN. May be "different" than something you might expect to get out of Madden, but I wouldn't knock it until the game comes out and we actually have a chance to see what people think.
P.S. For what it's worth, I remember plenty of people here and elsewhere saying last year that First Person football was a dumb idea and a waste of developer money and resources. I for one am glad to see it's now a staple of ESPN's game, and I can't wait to see the new QB progression system that they've added to it this year. You can't build Rome in a day, my friend. Peace.
May not be this year or next, but that day will come. Companies like Wal Mart, Microsoft and EA can't stay as big as they are forever. Sooner or later, some company is going to knock them off. Almost happened the first year on PS1, when EA couldn't get a respectable Madden product out and had to sit a year out. But it may never happen if a company like VC/ESPN isn't willing to push the envelope in a DIFFERENT direction..like being able to download Michael Vick's VIP profile to see what it might be like to play him in a game of ESPN. May be "different" than something you might expect to get out of Madden, but I wouldn't knock it until the game comes out and we actually have a chance to see what people think.
P.S. For what it's worth, I remember plenty of people here and elsewhere saying last year that First Person football was a dumb idea and a waste of developer money and resources. I for one am glad to see it's now a staple of ESPN's game, and I can't wait to see the new QB progression system that they've added to it this year. You can't build Rome in a day, my friend. Peace.
Once again you need to remember we are not just talking Madden Cards. EA Trax, fantasy stadiums, mascot players, etc.There is a huge difference between EA's Madden Cards and Sega's Crib thingy. EA can afford to waste development money. Sega can't. Madden outsells ESPN by a huge, huge margin. I think this kind of thing lacks focus. Sure there are some nifty new features that we have no idea yet if they'll work, but the minute I see a major flaw with the game I'll go back to--maybe if they focused on the game and not the Crib? Right or wrong, that's where I'll go.
Why did I bold the last comment? Trust me you are not the average sports gamer. You are in no way the majority.
Perfect gameplay is the key to Segas sales? You should go to work for 3DO and make billions with that theory.The new Crib stuff won't make a slight dent in EA's stranglehold, so I just wish Sega would focus all of its attention on the game and not get sidetracked. They cannot afford to.
Whoops...
Or High Volatage...
Not unless you can perfect the gameplay of Leisure Suit Larry. This has been discussed already above ijn detail by others.
The problem is you are not seeing it though the average gamers eyes. Maybe you should spend some time in a store talking to the consumer before speaking on their behalf. I have. Throw ESPN Football in a kiosk and listen to one hundred excuses as to why people stick with Madden.
* All my friends have Madden.
* I only buy EA Sports games
* I like the music
* I buy Madden every year and don't want to change
* The large black man on the cover scares me
etc etc etc
What seems logical to most of us does not equate with the masses when it comes to sports games. Most of us are hardcore sports gamers and a tiny part of what makes up sales. And if you need further convincing, simply look at the latest sales charts and see how well a little game called NFL Street did (rentals and sales)
Bling-Bling...
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Bill_Abner
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Where did I say that perfect gameplay equates to huge sales figs? I don't think I said that, and if I implied that, it was an accident. I thought I said that EA was going to win the sales battle no matter what Sega did so I'd personally rather see them focus 100% of their development fund on making the game better rather than the other stuff.
I'm speaking on the average gamer's behalf? Since when? My gripes about this are purely personal. I could not care less if I was the average sports gamer or not. I look at it from a completely selfish point of view. I really don't care in the slightest what the typical sports gamer wants and what he/she doesn't. As for hanging out at a game store chatting with the locals to get a feel for what Joe Gamer likes, I'll pass. Not because I feel I'm somehow too good for such a thing...but rather because I don't care.
For me, a lot of sports games (not just this particular football game that no one has actually seen a final build of yet) waste development money on frilly items that have little direct impact on the sales of that particular game. Of course we really have no idea what all of this stuff will entail and it may very well be a tiny part of the game that was very cheap to add to the feature set (I still think those celebs got paid, and Sega is famous for under budgeting games, but hey..)
In the end it all comes down to making me happy. I'm happy with ESPN Baseball. I may very well be happy with ESPN Football. But if I'm not, I'll be upset that money that could have went to making the game better went to paying some "celeb" to be a marketing tool for the game. Of course it's still too early to say either way.
I'm speaking on the average gamer's behalf? Since when? My gripes about this are purely personal. I could not care less if I was the average sports gamer or not. I look at it from a completely selfish point of view. I really don't care in the slightest what the typical sports gamer wants and what he/she doesn't. As for hanging out at a game store chatting with the locals to get a feel for what Joe Gamer likes, I'll pass. Not because I feel I'm somehow too good for such a thing...but rather because I don't care.
For me, a lot of sports games (not just this particular football game that no one has actually seen a final build of yet) waste development money on frilly items that have little direct impact on the sales of that particular game. Of course we really have no idea what all of this stuff will entail and it may very well be a tiny part of the game that was very cheap to add to the feature set (I still think those celebs got paid, and Sega is famous for under budgeting games, but hey..)
In the end it all comes down to making me happy. I'm happy with ESPN Baseball. I may very well be happy with ESPN Football. But if I'm not, I'll be upset that money that could have went to making the game better went to paying some "celeb" to be a marketing tool for the game. Of course it's still too early to say either way.
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I notice there's a trend towards mini games. Maybe that helps sell games as consumers see the game as having more replay value.
I don't know about all those MTV celebrities tho. MTV is associated with extreme sports, if it's associated with sports at all. But maybe the demographic which watches MTV buys sports games.
Who knows, I'm not the marketing pro?
The VIP feature I don't see as one of these frilly things. It's an appealing idea in theory but how will it be implemented? To me, all AI seems dry, not prone to do things humans would do. So how will AI behave trying to simulate otehr humans through profiles? We'll see.
I don't know about all those MTV celebrities tho. MTV is associated with extreme sports, if it's associated with sports at all. But maybe the demographic which watches MTV buys sports games.
Who knows, I'm not the marketing pro?
The VIP feature I don't see as one of these frilly things. It's an appealing idea in theory but how will it be implemented? To me, all AI seems dry, not prone to do things humans would do. So how will AI behave trying to simulate otehr humans through profiles? We'll see.
Well your last comment was kind of a basis of my replies. You seem to be commenting on sales? That is based on consumers, since they are the perspective sales. By making the comments you are speaking on behalf of them. In turn I replied with a disagreement to your theory.
The new Crib stuff won't make a slight dent in EA's stranglehold, so I just wish Sega would focus all of its attention on the game and not get sidetracked. They cannot afford to.
Last edited by bdoughty on Thu May 13, 2004 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill, don't you think it would at least be interesting (if not fun) to be able to play T.O.'s VIP profile player? Or Bettis or Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis or anyone else who plays? Not sure if that could or will happen, but I've got to think it's entirely possible..if not this year, then maybe next or the year after. The fact that this system supposedly keeps track of things like ratio of spin to juke moves, lineman blocking schemes, hot routes, audibles, blitzes and hot blitzes, red zone efficiency, ratio of club and swim moves, etc., gives me a lot of hope for this feature moving forward.
Besides, how much would it really cost VC/ESPN to get a guy like David Arquette or even T.O. for that matter to put his VIP profile on line for others to play against? May even be an ego thing..some of these guys might be willing to put theirs up for free. Then again, with today's athlete...
Besides, how much would it really cost VC/ESPN to get a guy like David Arquette or even T.O. for that matter to put his VIP profile on line for others to play against? May even be an ego thing..some of these guys might be willing to put theirs up for free. Then again, with today's athlete...
Well I think for the sake of this discussion "The Crib" and "VIP" are two seperate entities. I will defiantely use the VIP and I even commented on what a great idea it was when I first posted the thread showing this new feature. As for "The Crib" I used it to a point. Played a few games of paper football, etc. I do know of may people who use it alot. Just as there are numerous Madden fans that get into all the frills in it, including the EA Bio.The VIP feature I don't see as one of these frilly things. It's an appealing idea in theory but how will it be implemented? To me, all AI seems dry, not prone to do things humans would do. So how will AI behave trying to simulate otehr humans through profiles? We'll see.
The frills are here to stay as gaming companies are trying to make their game reach as many people as it can possibly reach. What I have a problem with are the people saying it is okay for EA to do it since they have the money to blow, but Sega should stick to getting gamplay right. I and many others think Sega gameplay is better then Madden already, so they need to do things to get more sales.
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ScoopBrady
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I think you guys are missing the point of the whole VIP thing. In theory, the idea is pretty damn good and adds a depth to league play that is not found in Madden.
The naysayers are focusing on celebrities being in the game when the true focus should be on what the VIP adds to created leagues. Imagine if we formed a DSP NFL 2005 League that plays once a week. With everyone's schedules being so busy there's not much of a chance to play during the week for some exhibition matches to get to know your next opponent. With the VIP you'll be able to play the cpu with an AI that focuses on your opponents gameplay style and prepare for your match that week. I think the idea is great.
Add to this the fact that you will be able to use Live rosters in leagues and I honestly don't know why the f*ck anybody is bitching and moaning about this at all. I don't see EA adding this kind of depth to its online leagues. The celebrities are thrown in to attract the average consumer but the VIP system is there for the sports game fan.
The naysayers are focusing on celebrities being in the game when the true focus should be on what the VIP adds to created leagues. Imagine if we formed a DSP NFL 2005 League that plays once a week. With everyone's schedules being so busy there's not much of a chance to play during the week for some exhibition matches to get to know your next opponent. With the VIP you'll be able to play the cpu with an AI that focuses on your opponents gameplay style and prepare for your match that week. I think the idea is great.
Add to this the fact that you will be able to use Live rosters in leagues and I honestly don't know why the f*ck anybody is bitching and moaning about this at all. I don't see EA adding this kind of depth to its online leagues. The celebrities are thrown in to attract the average consumer but the VIP system is there for the sports game fan.
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
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pk500
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Maybe it's just me, but I could give seven sh*ts about playing Jerome Bettis' or David Arquette's profile. It's a gimmick.
I'd rather play a game against the AI with bedrock gameplay and few, if any flaws, than play against Carmen Electra's profile. Or better yet, I'm perfectly happy playing a game on Xbox Live against DSP brethren.
Much like Abner, I could give a flying f*ck about what turns on the average gamer. Gaming is a selfish hobby that luckily offers many choices, as what I want usually isn't what the masses want.
I guess I'm not the average gamer: I want gameplay impovements, not profiles and cribs. I already have a crib -- in pieces in the basement, the crib both of my kids slept in when they were little. I already have a profile -- small bit of a gut and a pug nose when I'm turned sideways.
Take care,
PK
Maybe it's just me, but I could give seven sh*ts about playing Jerome Bettis' or David Arquette's profile. It's a gimmick.
I'd rather play a game against the AI with bedrock gameplay and few, if any flaws, than play against Carmen Electra's profile. Or better yet, I'm perfectly happy playing a game on Xbox Live against DSP brethren.
Much like Abner, I could give a flying f*ck about what turns on the average gamer. Gaming is a selfish hobby that luckily offers many choices, as what I want usually isn't what the masses want.
I guess I'm not the average gamer: I want gameplay impovements, not profiles and cribs. I already have a crib -- in pieces in the basement, the crib both of my kids slept in when they were little. I already have a profile -- small bit of a gut and a pug nose when I'm turned sideways.
Take care,
PK
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
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"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
You are only seeing one side of it. It is about using it for leagues, learning what people in your league do on 3rd and long. The possibilities are endless.Maybe it's just me, but I could give seven sh*ts about playing Jerome Bettis' or David Arquette's profile. It's a gimmick.
You better darn well care about the average gamer. Games have to keep making money to keep making new versions. If Sega can't stay up with EA Sports in all aspects then you wont have to worry about this little hobby of yours. You wont have any games left to play, other then EA Sports, which last I checked you were not a large fan of.Much like Abner, I could give a flying f*ck about what turns on the average gamer.
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Danimal
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First off, you must have read something I didn't. The Celeb endorsements have nothing to do with the VIP system.GTHobbes wrote:Bill, don't you think it would at least be interesting (if not fun) to be able to play T.O.'s VIP profile player? Or Bettis or Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis or anyone else who plays? Not sure if that could or will happen, but I've got to think it's entirely possible..if not this year, then maybe next or the year after. The fact that this system supposedly keeps track of things like ratio of spin to juke moves, lineman blocking schemes, hot routes, audibles, blitzes and hot blitzes, red zone efficiency, ratio of club and swim moves, etc., gives me a lot of hope for this feature moving forward.
Besides, how much would it really cost VC/ESPN to get a guy like David Arquette or even T.O. for that matter to put his VIP profile on line for others to play against? May even be an ego thing..some of these guys might be willing to put theirs up for free. Then again, with today's athlete...
The Celebs are in the crib. You'll get a virtual phone call from them and they'll say "go out and rush for 200 yards and I'll give you XX Bobbelhead doll" Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that was my take on it.
Now VIP sounds interesting in that you can play other peoples VIP profile, but no where did I see anything about being able to play pro fottball players profiles.
Again maybe I missed it, but I sure didn't see any of what you're talking about mentioned anywhere.
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Bill_Abner
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I think that does sound interesting, yeah. And you're right that we really don't know the details to base any firm opinions about this stuff yet. I could be dead wrong about all this stuff.GTHobbes wrote:Bill, don't you think it would at least be interesting (if not fun) to be able to play T.O.'s VIP profile player? Or Bettis or Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis or anyone else who plays? Not sure if that could or will happen, but I've got to think it's entirely possible..if not this year, then maybe next or the year after. The fact that this system supposedly keeps track of things like ratio of spin to juke moves, lineman blocking schemes, hot routes, audibles, blitzes and hot blitzes, red zone efficiency, ratio of club and swim moves, etc., gives me a lot of hope for this feature moving forward.
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And I never ever said I thought it was "OK for EA to do it." Wow bdoughty has a probem with me and it's not even September.
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pk500
- DSP-Funk All-Star
- Posts: 33880
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:00 am
- Location: Syracuse, N.Y.
- Contact:
Brent:
You care about the average gamer because you work with them and see them every day. You work in the industry, so you have a much more vested interest in it.
Again, I stand by my statement that I don't give a flying f*ck about the average gamer. Gaming is a hobby, not an obligation. Why must I have a vested interest in what some zit-faced punk who's erect about playing against Carmen Electra's profile thinks? I don't work in the business; I don't use those kinds of features.
Maybe there's one genre in which I do care about the average gamer: Racing. That's because I've helped in a very, very small way to hone IndyCar Series 2005 through my feedback to Codemasters from beta play. But you know what? The Codies fill a great niche of making pretty detailed console sim racers, and they do it damn well. So as a hardcore gamer, I'm pleased to work with them and appreciate that they actually listen to my feedback and that of other testers and implement it in the game.
Seriously, if I told EA or Tiburon that there was no oversteer or the drafting model was f*cked up in NASCAR Thunder 2005, do you think they'd care? Not one bit.
The gaming industry is a billion-dollar industry, so I don't think it's going to go belly-up if I consider it a selfish pursuit and want to buy games that suit me as a hardcore gamer, not those that placate the average gamer who's impressed and swayed by games with frivolous, dopey features.
When it comes to spending my discretionary income on video games, you bet your ass I'm selfish and only care about myself. I'm unapolgetic about that, as I play games for me, not for the masses or anyone else. I'm just fortunate that there are a lot of people of the same mind here at DSP, so there are plenty of great guys with whom I can play the kinds of games I like online and get to know them as cool cats.
DSP is a niche site, plain and simple. It caters to hardcore gamers, and we write our reviews focusing on gameplay, something about which most of the average gaming population doesn't care.
It's why you don't see the "ROXXORS, RULZ" posts in here from caffeine-addled teens and why it's a place of substance. It's also why it's a perfect gaming hangout for selfish bastard prick grouch sim gamers like me.
Take care,
PK
You care about the average gamer because you work with them and see them every day. You work in the industry, so you have a much more vested interest in it.
Again, I stand by my statement that I don't give a flying f*ck about the average gamer. Gaming is a hobby, not an obligation. Why must I have a vested interest in what some zit-faced punk who's erect about playing against Carmen Electra's profile thinks? I don't work in the business; I don't use those kinds of features.
Maybe there's one genre in which I do care about the average gamer: Racing. That's because I've helped in a very, very small way to hone IndyCar Series 2005 through my feedback to Codemasters from beta play. But you know what? The Codies fill a great niche of making pretty detailed console sim racers, and they do it damn well. So as a hardcore gamer, I'm pleased to work with them and appreciate that they actually listen to my feedback and that of other testers and implement it in the game.
Seriously, if I told EA or Tiburon that there was no oversteer or the drafting model was f*cked up in NASCAR Thunder 2005, do you think they'd care? Not one bit.
The gaming industry is a billion-dollar industry, so I don't think it's going to go belly-up if I consider it a selfish pursuit and want to buy games that suit me as a hardcore gamer, not those that placate the average gamer who's impressed and swayed by games with frivolous, dopey features.
When it comes to spending my discretionary income on video games, you bet your ass I'm selfish and only care about myself. I'm unapolgetic about that, as I play games for me, not for the masses or anyone else. I'm just fortunate that there are a lot of people of the same mind here at DSP, so there are plenty of great guys with whom I can play the kinds of games I like online and get to know them as cool cats.
DSP is a niche site, plain and simple. It caters to hardcore gamers, and we write our reviews focusing on gameplay, something about which most of the average gaming population doesn't care.
It's why you don't see the "ROXXORS, RULZ" posts in here from caffeine-addled teens and why it's a place of substance. It's also why it's a perfect gaming hangout for selfish bastard prick grouch sim gamers like me.
Take care,
PK
Last edited by pk500 on Thu May 13, 2004 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"You know why I love boxers? I love them because they face fear. And they face it alone." - Nick Charles
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
"First on the throttle, last on the brakes." - @MotoGP Twitter signature
XBL Gamertag: pk4425
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Danimal
- DSP-Funk All-Star
- Posts: 12181
- Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:00 am
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pk500 wrote:I guess I'm not the average gamer: I want gameplay impovements, not profiles and cribs. I already have a crib -- in pieces in the basement, the crib both of my kids slept in when they were little. I already have a profile -- small bit of a gut and a pug nose when I'm turned sideways.
Take care,
PK
You bastage! You made me spit out my drink when I read this.
You're right, Danimal. It doesn't say that you will be able to play T.O.'s VIP profile in the Crib (or any other) story at IGN. I was just thinking that could be the next logical step for something like this.Danimal wrote:First off, you must have read something I didn't. The Celeb endorsements have nothing to do with the VIP system.GTHobbes wrote:Bill, don't you think it would at least be interesting (if not fun) to be able to play T.O.'s VIP profile player? Or Bettis or Peyton Manning or Ray Lewis or anyone else who plays? Not sure if that could or will happen, but I've got to think it's entirely possible..if not this year, then maybe next or the year after. The fact that this system supposedly keeps track of things like ratio of spin to juke moves, lineman blocking schemes, hot routes, audibles, blitzes and hot blitzes, red zone efficiency, ratio of club and swim moves, etc., gives me a lot of hope for this feature moving forward.
Besides, how much would it really cost VC/ESPN to get a guy like David Arquette or even T.O. for that matter to put his VIP profile on line for others to play against? May even be an ego thing..some of these guys might be willing to put theirs up for free. Then again, with today's athlete...
The Celebs are in the crib. You'll get a virtual phone call from them and they'll say "go out and rush for 200 yards and I'll give you XX Bobbelhead doll" Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that was my take on it.
Now VIP sounds interesting in that you can play other peoples VIP profile, but no where did I see anything about being able to play pro fottball players profiles.
Again maybe I missed it, but I sure didn't see any of what you're talking about mentioned anywhere.
And I agree about the leagues stuff. The depth that it could add to online leagues may be fantastic. Especially when you get to like the 10th week of the season or so, and the profile you are able to practice against during the week has a lot more information to draw from in regards to your next opponent. Get to see how he might react against that reverse you'd like to try out against him in the second half of a close game. I'm telling ya..the more and more I think about this, the more and more excited I'm getting. And I was already pretty excited two pages ago in this thread.
Jesus Christ...I didn't check this site for the last few hours and suddenly this dumb topic has a ton of posts. I know this is a discussion board, but talk about beating a dead horse. It baffles me how people can somehow keep confusing marketing with actual gameplay when neither of these games is even going to be on the market for two months or more! None of you have any idea how much time or effort was spent on the features in either game so everybody is just talking out of their ass including me. None of you have ever made games or know how many programmers were assigned to which features or anything. Good lord just let it drop and actually just play the games and make your points when they come out, I repeat IN TWO MONTHS! At least then you would have some basis for an opinion because you've actually experienced the game and are not just speculating about foolishness and things you have no clue about. I love how message boards can suddenly bring out the master game maker and master marketer in everybody when nobody actually seems to have those jobs in real life.
http://www.whas11.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=49293&catId=49
---Lend a ***** a pencil--- Context?
---Lend a ***** a pencil--- Context?
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backbreaker
- Panda Cub
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:00 am
I have nothing to add to this arguement, just I love the way you guys argue/debate, with civililty and aforethought. How you see the light or shed darkness, its incredible that this exist in the fanboy era, or the over zealous mod.
Keep the dialogue flowing, I really appreciate the manipulation of pros and cons arguement, staying focus on the issue and not digressing to some bs arguement.
Why don't you guys start a roundtable to play out on this board, 2 guys chose pros and the other 2 chose cons and be conciliatory when an arguement is made to make you see the light.
Keep the dialogue flowing, I really appreciate the manipulation of pros and cons arguement, staying focus on the issue and not digressing to some bs arguement.
Why don't you guys start a roundtable to play out on this board, 2 guys chose pros and the other 2 chose cons and be conciliatory when an arguement is made to make you see the light.