OT: Racing 2010 (Spoiler Alert)

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:26 am

Ross Brawn for the first time has stated his disappointment with Michael. I'm interested to see how this all plays out. Kube has put a hold on signing with Renault which is kind of dumb seeing how well the team is doing.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 4792&FS=F1

For the first time, Mercedes team boss Ross Brawn has admitted some disappointment with Schumacher's situation.

"We're a bit disappointed at the moment. Michael would admit he's not where he wants to be.

"We're seeing signs of progress in some races but not in others, but we've not had a great car this year, which has not helped him," added the Briton.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:30 am

Ask yourself this question: If Nick Heidfeld was performing like Schumacher at the moment, would there be serious questions about his near-term future with the team?

I think so.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:54 pm

What exactly do we mean when we say 'performing like Schumacher'? Do we mean finishing ahead of Nico Rosberg in 3 of the last 4 events? I've argued at the usual place that his Canadian qualifying was duff and his strongarm tactics late in that race were sometimes unsavoury - absolutely nothing new there - but his practice pace and his opening stint of that race were perfectly decent pieces of work.

There's absolutely no doubt that we're not dealing with Schumacher of old, and perhaps Schumacher of old is gone forever, but some of the criticism of the last couple of weeks has been at best short-sighted and at worst hysterical. Take, for instance, one Mr D Coulthard of Monte Carlo, who was scathing in his criticism of Schumacher in Montreal and suggested he's not anywhere near to getting on top of a 2010-spec F1 machine.

This very same D Coulthard wrote in Autosport magazine prior to Turkey, a race in which Schumacher was best of the rest behind the Red Bull/McLaren duel (Heaven only knows what you're thinking Heidfeld would have done - "Nick, why the Hell didn't you beat Button? And don't give me that business about them being much faster than us again, because I'm not going to take it..."), that Michael was improving and there was no doubt he could win again. It is a nonsense to suggest that such a change could possibly have taken place in that time, and I'm at a loss to suggest why you're all being driven to such extremes when even the sort of basic race weekend analysis I cobble together doesn't bear it out.

I must concede, however, that his pace this weekend has been consistently mediocre at best, and that he seems to be overdriving it somewhat. My opinion on where Michael is just now is that he's a pretty good Grand Prix driver with at least 8 or 9 very good to great drivers ahead of him, and I would never dream of suggesting he's blowing anybody away, but I'm seeing an awful lot of stuff written that seems to be complete and utter rot.

I love Nick Heidfeld to bits. He's a steady, consistent hand capable of big finishes in the right equipment. I do not for a second believe he has the ultimate pace of Nico Rosberg, and I'd be rather surprised if anybody else here seriously believes so either.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:09 pm

GB_Simo wrote:My opinion on where Michael is just now is that he's a pretty good Grand Prix driver with at least 8 or 9 very good to great drivers ahead of him

That was exactly Nick Heidfeld's position in Formula One for much of his career, and he doesn't have a ride now.

Shouldn't we expect more from Schumacher? Is beating Nico Rosberg suddenly a feather in a driver's cap? Since when has Rosberg been a true yardstick other than by English F1 journalists (ah-hem, Mr. Roebuck) who are infatuated with his father and desperately want the kid -- who is a nice person just like his old man -- to succeed? Is Nico Rosberg truly special in the way that Vettel or Kubica are? No. He's a capable shoe -- that's it.

The Michael of 2006 would have blown Rosberg into the weeds if they were in the same car, methinks.

Do you really think Schumacher is earning his pay packet this season? Has he really been a team leader, developing and pulling the car up the grid like he did during his Benetton and Ferrari days? He's never looked truly special. He's looked pretty damn ordinary most races.

Again, this IS Michael Schumacher we're talking about. Our expectations should be higher. I don't think the guy is delivering.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:47 pm

Should beating Nico Rosberg be a feather in Michael Schumacher's cap? Not if he's the driver he was, of course not. Is he the driver he was? Certainly not right now. Nico, as you've said, is a capable pedaller who isn't quite in the top bracket. Is it therefore reasonable to suggest that Rosberg is a decent yardstick by which to measure Schumacher's progress for now? My personal opinion is and shall remain that he is, for the time being. Should the car get going at all in the second half of the year, though, I'd be very disappointed if Michael didn't go with it and establish himself as de facto number one.

I'm prepared to give him that long, and I'm not sure why there's quite such a rush to judge. Not that I'd suggest for a second that Niki Lauda at his peak was the equal of Schumacher at his, but he's the best example of a driver coming back after a retirement that I can think of, so he'll have to do - had The Rat been judged so hastily, you'd have had him sacked two years before he won his third world title, right about the time that dear old Wattie was giving him a kicking in 1982.

Speaking of Niki, he always used to say, and I'm under the impression that he was far from alone in this, that Keke Rosberg was an arse (I'm paraphrasing here, I'll admit). I believe he's mellowed somewhat since his racing days came to an end, and I'd be interested to hear about any contact you might have had with Keke through the Indy GP races or whatever.

Surely, by the way, the combined effect of your last two posts is to suggest that if Nick Heidfeld was delivering this level of performance, he'd actually be delivering exactly what you were expecting of Nick Heidfeld. I do of course appreciate that what you expect of Nick Heidfeld and what you expect of Michael Schumacher are Very Different Things Indeed, but it would appear needlessly hyperbolic to go suggesting that Heidfeld's imaginary drive would be under threat at this point, and still more so to suggest that Schumacher's should be, given that there must surely be greater scope for improvement in his case. I'm only saying, is all, and I do love your passion, honest I do.

Another one for you - I don't think Vettel is driving anything like as well as he did last year. I would expect a truly special talent to be reasonably comfortable against Mark Webber, who is a perfectly competent racing driver but surely not in the Hamilton/Alonso/Kubica bracket. I'm also somewhat dismayed by the apparent petulance and occasional descent into arrogance that we've seen on display more than once this year from Vettel (see the entire Turkish weekend for prime examples, especially his effort in the qualifying press conference). I'd really love to know what's going on in Sebastian's head at the moment, and what's going on inside Red Bull too - there must still be plenty of interesting driver management taking place.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:50 pm

I agree that MS needs to be given more time before rushing to judgment. I think it is unfair to judge a guy that has been out of F1 racing as long as MS on well less than a full season of races. He is in a new car that is not as good relative to the other cars as it was last season. He has stated repeatedly that he is on a three-year plan, and not to expect to see him in top form this year. The car is the main issue at Mercedes at the moment. MS will come around and be fine, given some more time.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:40 am

I'm not a fan of Luca Di Montezemolo but maybe the guys got a point with regards to slower cars on the grid. That Webber incident with Heikki should have never taken place. Heikki radioed and said he was defending? Against a Red Bull are you freaking kidding me?

I'm glad Mark's OK because that accident looked potentially worse and ruined the race for a lot of drivers and should have never happened.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:46 pm

Footage of Webber's insane flight today:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pJh6A-5CaOY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed>

Kovalainen f*cked up. Slower cars need to make one move to get out of the way of the faster car and stay there. Heikki made two. Big mistake.

Learning how to be lapped by a faster car is just as important a part of racecraft as learning how to lap a slower car.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:55 pm

I just watched the replay of the race on FOX (I hate this stretch of FOX televised F1 races since some are not live) and it was highly entertaining. Kobayashi's final lap was amazing. Webber is a very lucky boy to escape his crash in good shape. My oh my how all the hype around Kovalainen's entry into F1 has proven to be just that -- hype. McLaren have definitely turned things around nicely this season. It should be a fun fight down the stretch between Red Bull and McLaren.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:35 pm

pk500 wrote:Kovalainen f*cked up. Slower cars need to make one move to get out of the way of the faster car and stay there. Heikki made two. Big mistake.

Learning how to be lapped by a faster car is just as important a part of racecraft as learning how to lap a slower car.

Webber was not lapping Kovalainen, nor did he have to follow Heikki's move towards the middle of the track - his closing speed at that point was sufficient to see him by on the inside. Not that I think Heikki covered himself in glory, because he did have a little wobble across the racetrack, but neither man was blameless.

Nobody, not Rod or anyone else, is going to convince me that anyone should ever have to get out of the way when battling for position, no matter what the speed differential between the cars is. Heikki was perfectly entitled to defend his position - they are, after all, taking part in the same motor race. He did it in a slightly cack-handed manner, mind, but he was entitled to try to keep his place.

Is it me or am I out to disagree with everyone in the thread this weekend?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:01 pm

I was mistaken in saying Webber was lapping him. Nonetheless, there comes a point where a slower driver ahead must acknowledge reality and not make darting moves to each side to avoid being overtaken by a faster car. That's exactly what Kovalainen did.

But that's the byproduct of a code of racing ethics that was chipped and chiseled by Senna, with Schumacher detonating that battered shell into rubble. Sort of ironic that two of the acknowledged greatest drivers of all time also were among the most unsavory on track. That's why I'll never put either in Clark's class.

The safety of the cars also has led to an erosion of ethical racecraft. Drivers see so many of their brethren walk away from crashes like today that it numbs their brains to the inherent danger of the sport. The days are thankfully gone of Jackie Stewart always packing an extra suit in his weekend kit because there was a good chance he would need to attend a driver funeral on a Tuesday. But that improvement in safety also has dulled drivers' senses of reality.

To Webber's credit, he didn't blame Kovalainen. Webber claimed he was trailing closely, trying to get a tow. That's a damning indictment of the pathetic negative effect of current F1 aerodynamics on proper racing, that the fastest car on the grid still needs a tow to overtake one of the most porcine vehicles on the track.

http://www.inracingnews.com/formula-one ... ovalainen/

Then again, Bernie will love it. The video of Webber soaring and flipping will be televised worldwide, and the driver walked away. Mission accomplished, FOM.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:22 pm

I was struck by how much worse Kovalainen's move across the track looked from the external cameras, as the whole affair looked more gentle from Webber's on-board. I've no argument with anyone saying that sometimes the game is up and the man behind is coming through no matter what, and that certainly seemed to be the case in this instance, but Rod appears to be suggesting that Heikki shouldn't be defending at all under any circumstances, an idea I can't get behind.

One of the highlights of the BBC coverage today was David Coulthard, who on occasions like this does his best to appear a shining beacon of neutrality no matter how obviously he's toeing the Red Bull party line, making the case for 'Class B' F1 cars simply getting out of the way of the 'Class A' machines at all times, sparking an argument with Eddie Jordan (at least I think that's what it was. If you've ever listened to Eddie on TV, you'll know he doesn't make statements as much as he has long, unstructured spells of thinking out loud) and later Mike Gascoyne. The Rottweiler was, as you might imagine, somewhat put out by the suggestion that his team shouldn't be allowed to go wheel to wheel with the established teams.

The Beeb were also quick to break away from the world feed and play in on-board footage of Hamilton's safety car misdemeanour as soon as he came under investigation. What do we all think of Ferrari's post-race comments about the race result?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:33 pm

GB_Simo wrote:I was struck by how much worse Kovalainen's move across the track looked from the external cameras, as the whole affair looked more gentle from Webber's on-board. I've no argument with anyone saying that sometimes the game is up and the man behind is coming through no matter what, and that certainly seemed to be the case in this instance, but Rod appears to be suggesting that Heikki shouldn't be defending at all under any circumstances, an idea I can't get behind.

Nor can I. But Heikki was smoking some of Amsterdam's finest if he thought he could hold off the Red Bull.

Now stop being so effing agreeable, mate.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:35 pm

GB_Simo wrote:but Rod appears to be suggesting that Heikki shouldn't be defending at all under any circumstances, an idea I can't get behind.

I never said that !

All I was saying was if he has a capable car to keep up with the one chasing him down then fine, defend and ruin his day. Heikki was basically driving a Mini Cooper trying to race a BMW M5. I give Heikki credit for having the balls to try and make it tough for those behind him but when you have a car that totally is much faster than the one in front it would have been wiser to get out of Mark's way.

Good thing no one was seriously injured because those are the incidents that could occur if you have a Lotus in front of a Red Bull that is basically the fastest car on the grid.

So from that point of view that's where I side with Luca Di Montezemolo because that's what he thought might have happened and it did.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:24 pm

With no motive at all, because I don't think this video really proves or disproves anything we discussed a few days ago (I just find it interesting, and haven't seen this before), here's the start of the European Grand Prix, as viewed from above the head of an old man in a Mercedes:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9GFZW7EtDZU&hl=en_GB&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed>

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:37 pm

Awesome Adam, it looks just like me when we used to race rfactor.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:28 pm

Jimmydeicide wrote:Awesome Adam, it looks just like me when we used to race rfactor.

For the authentic rFactor experience, we also need someone to punt PK clean off the end of the game world (I did that, once. He took it fairly well, and in fairness I am a Limey prick) and me crashing going through turn 2 at Toban. Every. Bloody. Race.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:19 am

Holy smokes Batman, Autosport.com is broadcasting Live coverage of the FIA GT1 Championship

http://www.autosport.com/world-gt1-live/

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:23 pm

News from DTM: Ralf Schumacher's on pole. I thought I'd better post to see if everything else in the world was still correct.

Elsewhere, all hail the return of Crazy Dave Coulthard.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:52 pm

Congrats to Jr. for bringing the Wrangler #3 to victory lane in Daytona. There was no way that was planned, no sir !

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:49 am

Man GT1 is sooooo freakin cool

It's nice to see real supercars racing. It's a shame McLaren is not in this series.

edit: Nice to see a series where cars can pass both on the inside and outside of a race track.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:22 am

Lorenzo is on a different planet right now. I don't think a healthy Vale could beat him.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:41 pm

Rodster wrote:Congrats to Jr. for bringing the Wrangler #3 to victory lane in Daytona. There was no way that was planned, no sir !

He was obviously "due" to win a race, and I am sure his restrictor plate was exactly the "same" as the ones used by the other drivers.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:47 pm

toonarmy wrote: He was obviously "due" to win a race, and I am sure his restrictor plate was exactly the "same" as the ones used by the other drivers.

So is Jeff Gordon

Oh let's see, that was the very last time anyone will ever drive the #3 car in Nascar, the same place his dad died in 2001. He got special permission from both RC and his step mom to drive the #3 car as a final tribute to his dad and the #3 car on the July 4th weekend. Still no connection? Nah it's just me being cynical, carry on.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:13 pm

In other news, "Flipper: Yes, I'm A Dolphin."

Here's one. We know Valentino's had a couple of runs in a Ferrari and that there are plenty of people keen to see him have a crack at F1, but can you identify this two-wheeled champion?

The only clues I'll give you are that it's a Williams you're looking at (the colours say McLaren but the distinctive shape of FW06 is the giveaway) and that this isn't a World Championship event, but it is a Formula One race.