Backbreaker Preview - Natural Motion based football title

[ScoopBrady]

I am shocked you guys are so willing to overlook the AI deficiencies in this game. Seriously, shocked.

[TCrouch]

It's "not Madden". Pretty simple reasoning.

People want something else, and will overlook a lot of things to get a new experience. I only played about a half of the demo and knew it wasn't for me, but I did like the closer camera angle and the progression through your reads as a QB is almost exactly how I've wanted in Madden for years.

But I can't see myself playing it for more than a couple of minutes, personally. I can understand why people would, though.

[Danimal]

Pretty much what Terry just said.

One thing is for sure, this game has put to rest the argument many have used of just wanting a good "football" game no matter who makes it.

Predicted Metacritic score of around 60%

[GTHobbes]

I only had a chance to play one game online last night, but it was another great game.

My Steeler greats team got out to a 15-0 lead against the Redskins, with a couple of long passes from Bradshaw to Swann setting up 2 of my 5 field goals. In the 2nd half, my defense started having problems shutting down McNabb to S. Moss and they closed the gap to 15-14 (I was glad they didn't go for 2 after their second TD). I got the ball back with over 3 minutes to go and was able to run the clock down to 1:19. They took possession after my punt and was able to march to midfield before the ageless Donnie Shell came up with a big interception which allowed me to run out the clock for the win.

Just my opinion, but this game blows everything else away when it comes to online against a quality opponent. The guy I played last night threw just the one interception, and I had none, whereas he sacked me twice and I only got him once. Each of us ended up punting 5 or 6 times in the game. I still can't speak to the single player experience (other than Tackle Alley, which is awesome), but for my money there's no beating BB's online multiplayer.

[GTHobbes]

It's "not Madden". Pretty simple reasoning.

I respectfully disagree. For me, at least, it's about F-U-N, which this game more than delivers.

[GTHobbes]

Pretty much what Terry just said.

One thing is for sure, this game has put to rest the argument many have used of just wanting a good "football" game no matter who makes it.

Predicted Metacritic score of around 60%

You're probably right about the Metacritic score, but what does that show? Nothing, really. Remember, many of the same critics who are panning Backbreaker today, also panned 2k5 in favor of Madden in 2004.

This game is not going to attract people who love Madden or EA, or who are unwilling to invest the time to form their own opinions about the game. It also is not going to attract people who cannot look past certain things (even though they've looked past MANY things with EA's offering for 20 years, and will be back in line for that game come August). Terry wrote the game off after playing half of a half of the demo, and Dan's written the game off without ever playing online (or even playing the final product). Hell, you don't have to look any further than this thread to see many of the same people were confidently predicting from the start that this game would never be more than a "tech demo." Kudos to Rally yesterday for talking about the egg on his face for having written the game off prematurely. Most people would never do that -- not publicly at least.

Bottom line for me -- there's a very good football game here to be played, and my guess is that it's going to have some legs online and a very strong fanbase, a la 2k football. I'm ecstatic that I'll have a game that keeps my interest long past August, and I could care less who makes it.

[TCrouch]

I'm glad you're enjoying it. I still contemplated buying it, but as a guy who plays primarily offline in a franchise or multi-year dynasty, it's not my thing.

Didn't take 10 games of the demo with shortened quarters to tell me that. I still contemplated picking up the full game for longer quarters alone, but I'm Gameflying it instead.

And I'm one of the guys who actually thinks Madden 10 is a lot of F-U-N, too, (and I still play offline every couple of days in that), so I'm not eager to find something else, as I don't despise that one.

[RobVarak]

I am shocked you guys are so willing to overlook the AI deficiencies in this game. Seriously, shocked.

Why? Anti-Madden sentiment has become almost political at this point. There is no reason or logic behind much of it by now, so people are willing to depart from objectivity when embracing a potential rival.

I'm not shocked at all, but it is kind of ridiculous.

[Danimal]

Not worth it

[dbdynsty25]

Dan, last I checked, GT was praising the online component for the most part which hides most of the AI inadequacies. Easy buddy.

[GTHobbes]

Dan, we've fought about this for years and I really don't want to get into it again, but have you EVER gotten a quality single player Madden experience in 20 years? I can't say I have, so BB is really no different in that regard. In fact, I'm not sure the geniuses at Tiburon have gotten the end-of-half and end-of-game cpu logic right to this date.

You're a Madden fan, and that's cool by me. If you don't want to spend the $ on BB, that's your right. But it's not cool to watch Madden fans bash Backbreaker without even giving it a fair chance, or let others make up their mind for them.

[GTHobbes]

Dan, last I checked, GT was praising the online component for the most part which hides most of the AI inadequacies. Easy buddy.

Yep -- I have no opinion whatsoever on the single player BB experience, other than Tackle Alley, and have tried to make that clear. The only things I know about the single player game are based on what I've read.

[GTHobbes]

I'm glad you're enjoying it. I still contemplated buying it, but as a guy who plays primarily offline in a franchise or multi-year dynasty, it's not my thing.

Fair enough, Terry. For the first time in 6 years, it looks like we both are going to have a football game that we enjoy this year (and that's a good thing, IMO).

[Danimal]

I just deleted my other post it's not worth it.

If I'm a madden fan, you're obviously a madden and EA hater so as long as were both identified I'll leave it at this.

The only Madden on this generation I played longer then a month is Madden 10 and that is only because of the Online franchise.

I mainly play single player, so if BB has a terrible single player. One which I saw in the demo, has been confirmed by numerous people why on earth would I buy the game?

I'm not sure how pointing out the obvious flaws in the single player AI is unfairly bashing a game but so be it.

I'll keep my comments to myself on this game going forward, frankly If people enjoy it then great.

[GTHobbes]

If I'm a madden fan, you're obviously a madden and EA hater so as long as were both identified I'll leave it at this.

I'm more of a Tiburon football hater than anything. I started off loving Madden back in the day (I remember telling all of my Tecmo loving friends about it, but many were unwilling to give a shot to Madden, i.e., the new kid on the block at the time). And I absolutely love EA's NHL series, so I can't really agree that I'm a total EA hater. EA hockey started off great, had some terrible years, and then they finally righted that ship. Maybe Tiburon will turn their football game around at some point (it's that hope which has kept me buying their game every year). But spending so much time on consumables (MUT, Arcade Madden, the "new" online scouting feature this year, etc.) instead of things that people have requested for years (e.g., in-game saves) leads me to believe Tiburon likes what they're doing and have no immediate plans for big changes.

[MizzouRah]

This game is not going to attract people who love Madden or EA, or who are unwilling to invest the time to form their own opinions about the game. It also is not going to attract people who cannot look past certain things (even though they've looked past MANY things with EA's offering for 20 years, and will be back in line for that game come August).

I don't have any "allegiance" to any company and would love for BB to give me as much playing time as NCAA has the past two years.. but I don't play online and the solo play is awfully bad occording to impressions I've read and a couple of reviews I've read.

Personally, I could care less what it does better than Madden as I haven't played Madden in years.. but it still shouldn't get free passes on some of the head scratching things it does or doesn't do.

Is it really worth $50 to play online football? That's a pretty shallow product if you ask me.

[ScoopBrady]

Dan, we've fought about this for years and I really don't want to get into it again, but have you EVER gotten a quality single player Madden experience in 20 years? I can't say I have, so BB is really no different in that regard. In fact, I'm not sure the geniuses at Tiburon have gotten the end-of-half and end-of-game cpu logic right to this date.

I'm not Dan but I'll answer with a resounding, YES. I've had plenty of quality single-player experiences with Madden for the past 20 years. I've also had plenty of quality single-player experiences with Gameday as well as 2k football. IMO it is absolutely ludicrous to even compare any of the issues with Madden's single-player experience over the years with what is on exhibition with Backbreaker.

I don't care if this is the first football game this developer has made, the AI on display here is as if they've never even watched football outside of highlights on ESPN. I don't care what they're bringing new to the table because they're not bringing the food to the table, just the plates and silverware.

I can see having fun with the online with this game but to really overlook everything else and sugarcoat it is a crime. I completely understand wanting EA to up their game and the fact that a lot of people think they've been resting on their laurels because of a lack of competition. I also completly understand wanting competition to emerge. I don't understand being so jaded about it that you're willing to lower the same standards you say are lacking from EA's game just because it's something new.

I may be wrong about where you're coming from but please play 5 games in single-player mode before you respond to this and then tell me how awesome this game is and how you can never go back to Madden. Hell, play 1.

[MizzouRah]

I just deleted my other post it's not worth it.

If I'm a madden fan, you're obviously a madden and EA hater so as long as were both identified I'll leave it at this.

The only Madden on this generation I played longer then a month is Madden 10 and that is only because of the Online franchise.

I mainly play single player, so if BB has a terrible single player. One which I saw in the demo, has been confirmed by numerous people why on earth would I buy the game?

I'm not sure how pointing out the obvious flaws in the single player AI is unfairly bashing a game but so be it.

I'll keep my comments to myself on this game going forward, frankly If people enjoy it then great.

Why should you? This isn't OS where we can't speak openly and I'm glad.

My experience with the demo has been the same as you and I'll take that $50 and put it towards NCAA.

[Danimal]

Me labeling you a hater was to prove a point, you blindly label me a madden fan which is not the case. Ask anyone in out league how much I b*tch about madden. If I am guilty of anything it is arguing with people who push one side of a topic and since this happens a lot with madden it make me look like a fan.

I'm a football fan and frankly BB is the only football game i have never bought upon release, the demo did that much to tell me I didn't like it. Even with that said when the price drops, and maybe there is a patch I will probably buy it.

I thought about buying it yesterday since I am home sick with the flu all week to be honest, but I'm trying to be a better consumer these days as my shelves are littered with games I bought that other people liked and I tried to like.

So enjoy the game, I'll stay away from posting until I own a copy.

[GTHobbes]

I may be wrong about where you're coming from but please play 5 games in single-player mode before you respond to this and then tell me how awesome this game is and how you can never go back to Madden. Hell, play 1.

I'm guessing you're right, Scoop. I'm not sure I'll ever play 5 single-player games in BB, though, unless I want to try to win the league to buy some new players for my team. (It's hard for me to sit through 5 single-player games of Madden, though, too.)

If I was looking at spending $50 for the single-player experience, I don't know that I would -- haven't tried it so I can't really comment. One thing I'd be interested to know is whether the cpu AI gets any better the further you advance -- and I just haven't seen too many opinions written about that yet.

[GTHobbes]

I'm a football fan and frankly BB is the only football game i have never bought upon release, the demo did that much to tell me I didn't like it. Even with that said when the price drops, and maybe there is a patch I will probably buy it.

For what it's worth, I apologize, Dan. If you do pick up the game somewhere down the road, please consider buying it for the PS3 -- I'd love to be able to play you a game (or three).

[JRod]

Dan, we've fought about this for years and I really don't want to get into it again, but have you EVER gotten a quality single player Madden experience in 20 years? I can't say I have, so BB is really no different in that regard. In fact, I'm not sure the geniuses at Tiburon have gotten the end-of-half and end-of-game cpu logic right to this date.

I'm not Dan but I'll answer with a resounding, YES. I've had plenty of quality single-player experiences with Madden for the past 20 years. I've also had plenty of quality single-player experiences with Gameday as well as 2k football. IMO it is absolutely ludicrous to even compare any of the issues with Madden's single-player experience over the years with what is on exhibition with Backbreaker.

I don't care if this is the first football game this developer has made, the AI on display here is as if they've never even watched football outside of highlights on ESPN. I don't care what they're bringing new to the table because they're not bringing the food to the table, just the plates and silverware.

I can see having fun with the online with this game but to really overlook everything else and sugarcoat it is a crime. I completely understand wanting EA to up their game and the fact that a lot of people think they've been resting on their laurels because of a lack of competition. I also completly understand wanting competition to emerge. I don't understand being so jaded about it that you're willing to lower the same standards you say are lacking from EA's game just because it's something new.

I may be wrong about where you're coming from but please play 5 games in single-player mode before you respond to this and then tell me how awesome this game is and how you can never go back to Madden. Hell, play 1.

Madden is about a system not of football but a game where you can easily beat the game if you know the system. Or the game makes it artificially hard to make it a challenge by giving the CPU added bonus in ratings.

BB is a lot closer to being a good game but there's an imbalance in the game. Let's take away some of the bugs and just focus on gameplay.

The problem with BB is the devs made the defense too powerful, speedy and quicker to respond (awareness). DBs are faster than WRs, even LBs can keep up with WRs leading to them being in position to make the interception. The OL just gets stuffed by the defense on most plays. Which if they balanced it out, you could see the AI becoming more potent.

Like Bill Harris said, it's probably a 90 game but a 65 right now in it's current state.

The thing is sitting underneath the engine is a better foundation of football than Madden. Maybe they won't get a patch and then this does turn into a few expensive show piece. Madden and NCAA have been aged by BB and we really have been given MINIMAL upgrades to the same engine over the next gen cycle.

[Danimal]

Like Bill Harris said, it's probably a 90 game but a 65 right now in it's current state.

As much as I like Bill, that is kind of an odd statement. Wouldn't most games be rated higher if not for their problems?

[Brando70]

Shitty AI=Bad single-player sports game, no matter what else that game provides.

JRod's NFL 2k comparison seems apt. As eye-opening as that game was at the time, it had an assload of flaws (number one being that the running game was completely messed up). However, it was a great foundation and 2k1 delivered a top-notch football experience.

I hope BB2 fixes as lot of these issues and provides a real alternative for Madden, but there's no way I can sit down and play a game where the CPU QBs play like Rex Grossman.

[RallyMonkey]

I'm gonna step in and just make one more comment. I am not a Madden hater, in fact i'm the first to line up every year to pick it up because i keep waiting for the fun factor to finally click. It hasn't yet for me. So here's what it boils down to for little ole Rally:

Madden has not be enjoyable for me offline or online. BB has been great fun online. So, to the point made about poor offline AI making a game "shallow" at $50...I'd rather BB at 50% (meaning enjoyable online) than $60 for Madden where i don't enjoy either.

Again, i know some guys really have enjoyed Madden 10 and that's great. But i've played more BB since Sunday than i played any Madden in the last 4 years. So my $50 has been far better spent than the $240 i've spent on the last four years of Madden.