Backbreaker Preview - Natural Motion based football title

[Rodster]

We'll see this week if the devs give out any signs of an AI patch.

E3, Backbreaker 2 announced

[MizzouRah]

I don't see how you "patch" AI.. but there seems to be a good foundation from some of the impressions I've read.

I'll get it once it's at $20.

[Sport73]

My Impressions:

Not much to add beyond what's already been said. The essence of the reaction from most people is that you are getting a glimpse at gameplay mechanics and physics-based action that is truly a generation beyond anything else out there. In addition, once you get used to it, the 'on the field' perspective makes for a very immersive, fun, and challenging game.

There is no doubt that AI issues are present, and fall into the following categories:

- Poor CPU play-calling, not enough variety and questionable decisions.
- Too many interceptions (though every one of them is 'justifiable' in that the ball is in a position the defender can get to, and they diminish a lot once you get good!)
- Occasional bug/hiccup or oddity that disrupts immersion.

HOWEVER, all of that said I have played several online games against random opponents and its been incredible fun! Close games with back and forth scoring and solid play.

Just finished one earlier where the score at half-time was 17-10 my opponent, and he took a 20-10 lead in the third. He then got a safety to spring ahead to 22-10 and it looked like all hope was lost. I threw deep and scored a quick touchdown to make it 22-17; and then my defense held. With :37 left I score again to go up 24-22 and was ready to celebrate. He took that :37 seconds and marched down to my 25, kicked the field goal and won.

What made it a great game was the tactics and trade offs as we tried to repel each others strengths and learn tendencies. There was no cheap play or crap, just straight up football that was a lot of fun.

Highly recommended if you take the time to learn it; especially for online!

[GTHobbes]

Highly recommended if you take the time to learn it; especially for online!

I've gotten 7 online games in over the past 2 days and couldn't agree more. This game plays a great game of x's and o's online, once you get the hang of the controls. Hope these first couple of days aren't a fluke because I've had more fun online with Backbreaker than I ever did with Madden or even 2k. Playing good defense and special teams, and establishing a good running game, are all a blast.

[ScoopBrady]

This game may have the worst cpu AI I have ever seen in a sports game. Hell, it may be the worst cpu AI I have ever seen in any game since the PS1. If the single-player experience is even slightly a reason that you would want this game I would receommend that you stay far, far, far away.

The cpu has routinely thrown 7 interceptions or more to me. There are, on average, 12 combined turnovers and 10 combined sacks every game on 5-minute quarters. The cpu routinely throws for negative yards receptions at least 5 times per game. The cpu punter and kicker can't get any distance on their kicks worth of crap. That means you will usually start your possessions around midfield on punts and your own 35 or 40 yard line on kickoffs, that is unless you get an interception or fumble recovery in which case you will have the ball on the oppositions' 25 yard line.

I have seen an incompletion on a first-and-ten from the opponents 17 yard line turn into a 1st and goal from the 1 with no explanation. There was no flag or penalty that I could see and with the worst replay system in the history of sports games there was no further evidence as to what the hell happened.

It's a shame too because you can tell that this game would be a lot of fun if there wasn't so many turnovers, the cpu AI was improved, and the cpu offense could mount any sort of attack. I think part of that problem is the fact that they can't seem to go an entire possession without throwing an interception.

This game might provide a fantastic online experience (I can't comment because I haven't tried it online yet) but even so I would find it hard to recommend it at $50 for online only and tackle alley. I pray they patch this game.

[MizzouRah]

Thanks Scoop... I think I'll focus on NCAA 11.

[Sport73]

Scoops criticisms are accurate, and I suggest that anyone looking for this as a single player experience purchase only if you're interested in the 'tech demo' aspect of it.

There are too many turnovers in the online game as well, but since it happens to both teams it doesn't destroy the experience.

The shame of this game is that with just a little tuning it would crush Madden; there are so many things about it that are way beyond all competition...I for one hope they're working on a sequel.

[JRod]

Credit to Rod but on the twitter box, the devs said they are working on BB2.

No word on a patch other than the devs collecting info on fixes. We'll see what happens.

[Rodster]

Credit to Rod but on the twitter box, the devs said they are working on BB2.

No word on a patch other than the devs collecting info on fixes. We'll see what happens.

OMG I was joking and I turned out to be right. And now for tonight's Lotto winner.

[matthewk]

I wouldn't call this a tech demo. For a first installment they actually surprised me with how many things they did include.

It's not really a fair comparison to Madden at this point, but I've had more fun with BB so far than I had with Madden 10.

I pray they listen to the feedback and are willing and able to come out with a patch. If they can boost the blocking, that will take care of the sacks and overabundance of tackles for a loss. The interceptions is the other area that needs immediate attention. That's really all I'm looking for out of a patch for BB.

[GTHobbes]

Anybody else here playing online with PS3? I would love to get a game in sometime. I've played nothing but random opponents so far and most have been guys who play realistically (punt on 4th downs, try to establish a running game instead of passing non-stop, etc.). The last game I played last night was awesome -- I got out to a 10-0 lead on some guy who was using the Patriots, he came back to make it 17-14 in the 4th and tried for an onside kick with just under a minute left but I recovered and was able to just run out the clock for the win (bringing my record to 8-2).

Terry Bradshaw was the player of the game going 12 for 19 with 2 TDs (both to Lynn Swann) and Bettis had a good game (57 yards on 13 carries). I love the replays they show throughout the game, and I'm also loving the half-time and end-game highlight reel they show online as well. Great stuff.

[Danimal]

I'm just curious how anyone thinks they AI is going to be fixed in a patch? Some of these items don't seem fixable in a patch IMO.

They worked on this game for 3+ years, no one had a gun to their head to release it. I assume if they deemed it ready for release they felt this was their best effort, I'd be surprised if any of these items were fixed before a sequel.

[RallyMonkey]

Well, crow is tasting pretty yummy this morning. I had railed, privately not on here, against this game as my experience with the demo was luke warm--and that's putting it nicely. After much deliberation as well as a little extra cash/Gamestop credit lying around, i picked it up yesterday.

I won't rehash the already outlined issues with the game as they cannot be argued. But here's the bottom line...this game has one thing all over Madden in terms of my experience. That thing is F-U-N!!! The last three years i ran out to get Madden at midnight like an Alzheimer's patient thinking maybe this year, maybe this year, only to be disappointed to the point where i all but stopped playing the game by the end of the week.

Are there a slew of things in BB that need tweaking. Hell yes. Too many int's, not enough penalties, UBER-defensive awareness, not enough fumbles, etc. etc. But here's the thing. This game makes me Shallow Hal. The flaws are there, everyone can see them, but i see through them and what matters to me is the fact that this game gets so much right and is SO much fun, the flaws are not nearly glaring enough to ruin the experience.

Another point is that this game will likely get infinitely better the longer i play it...meaning once i "figure it out". And i don't mean figure it out like a Madden where i learn money plays or crap like that. Instead, this game will require lots of time to figure out my players, my play calling, how to avoid blitzes, how to get through my progressions, etc just like a true offense/defense must. There is a learning curve here that i look forward to figuring out.

Again, egg on my face after playing this bad boy now. Where with Madden i soured after about a half as it just felt stale and boring, this game had me clamoring for more. And here's the true indicator. I couldn't wait to pop on the 360 this morning to create my Providence Steamrollers so i can take them online tonight. My true test of a game is whether it's made me want to "grab a few minutes" before i leave for work. This one did it and i say once more it was for one primary reason.....F-U-N. Imagine wanting to play a video game for that reason. If you do, pick this one up.

[Spooky]

Having only played the demo I am curious...

Is there anything in the full game that makes the camera a bit more playable? I'm not sure what exactly it is but I continue to get confused during plays (especially on defense). Maybe it's just a learning curve thing.

Are you guys getting more used to the controls and angles? Is there any pointers I should know when playing to help me out?

[GTHobbes]

Having only played the demo I am curious...

Is there anything in the full game that makes the camera a bit more playable? I'm not sure what exactly it is but I continue to get confused during plays (especially on defense). Maybe it's just a learning curve thing.

Are you guys getting more used to the controls and angles? Is there any pointers I should know when playing to help me out?

Spooky, you probably already know this, but if not, try holding the left trigger when on defense -- it will keep you focused on the ball/ball carrier and possibly help with your camera issue. I love controlling a LB or safety on defense and sitting in my assigned zone, waiting to make a play.

As for the angles, I think this game has the best pursuit angles of any football game I've played. It's a beautiful thing seeing guys chase the ballcarrier down the field with realistic pursuit angles, instead of running behind the guy single file all the way down the field.

[JRod]

I'm just curious how anyone thinks they AI is going to be fixed in a patch? Some of these items don't seem fixable in a patch IMO.

They worked on this game for 3+ years, no one had a gun to their head to release it. I assume if they deemed it ready for release they felt this was their best effort, I'd be surprised if any of these items were fixed before a sequel.

On backbreaker forums the devs said that outside of say doing something with the stadiums, the patch works as rewriting the executable so anything is patchable. That doesn't mean there will be one.

Still if the devs are going through some threads and noting problems that's still more proactive than we've seen from other devs.

And maybe it won't come in a patch but in tuning the ratings. Who knows.

[Spooky]

Having only played the demo I am curious...

Is there anything in the full game that makes the camera a bit more playable? I'm not sure what exactly it is but I continue to get confused during plays (especially on defense). Maybe it's just a learning curve thing.

Are you guys getting more used to the controls and angles? Is there any pointers I should know when playing to help me out?

Spooky, you probably already know this, but if not, try holding the left trigger when on defense -- it will keep you focused on the ball/ball carrier and possibly help with your camera issue. I love controlling a LB or safety on defense and sitting in my assigned zone, waiting to make a play.

As for the angles, I think this game has the best pursuit angles of any football game I've played. It's a beautiful thing seeing guys chase the ballcarrier down the field with realistic pursuit angles, instead of running behind the guy single file all the way down the field.

Thanks GT. I have used that button but wasn't exactly sure what it was doing for me. When do you use the RT trigger then?

[GTHobbes]

Thanks GT. I have used that button but wasn't exactly sure what it was doing for me. When do you use the RT trigger then?

You'll rarely want to use the RT on defense. I use it only when I have somebody in my sights and am about to blow him up. When you hold the right trigger, you pick up speed but lose agility -- making it a more difficult to control your player. Less agility combined with the tighter camera focus means you will want to lay off the RT unless you're about to cream somebody.

On offense, I try to hold off using the RT when running the ball until I'm about to truck somebody or lay a stiff arm on them. It's a lot easier running the ball and finding your holes when you lay off the RT until you need it. Something else I haven't seen anybody mention -- the jukes in this game are AWESOME -- extremely helpful when running back a kick on special teams or if a defender is chasing and has a good angle on you. To execute a juke (or spin move), you don't need to hold down either of the triggers -- just a quick tap left or right on the right stick. (Tackle Alley is a very good way to get the hang of the rushing controls.) Hope some of this helps.

[RallyMonkey]

GTHobbes wrote:
Spooky wrote:
Having only played the demo I am curious...

Is there anything in the full game that makes the camera a bit more playable? I'm not sure what exactly it is but I continue to get confused during plays (especially on defense). Maybe it's just a learning curve thing.

Are you guys getting more used to the controls and angles? Is there any pointers I should know when playing to help me out?


Spooky, you probably already know this, but if not, try holding the left trigger when on defense -- it will keep you focused on the ball/ball carrier and possibly help with your camera issue. I love controlling a LB or safety on defense and sitting in my assigned zone, waiting to make a play.

As for the angles, I think this game has the best pursuit angles of any football game I've played. It's a beautiful thing seeing guys chase the ballcarrier down the field with realistic pursuit angles, instead of running behind the guy single file all the way down the field.


Thanks GT. I have used that button but wasn't exactly sure what it was doing for me. When do you use the RT trigger then?

RT is for aggression/speed. Be careful with it though as i've found it to be sometimes more detrimental than not as i get out of control and blow past ball carriers.

In terms of the camera Spook, i have learned pretty quickly to select my defensive player, know his job, and stick to it. Like GT said, i use the LT to focus on the ball, but if it's a play away from where i am i just stay home and focus on my job. I don't swtich nearly as much as i have in other games and i kind of like that. It goes against everything we know about gaming as we want to be involved in every second of everything that is happening, but for me the camera angles are almost purposeful in that they really force you to play the game from the field as opposed to from the stands like a Madden or most other sports games. Call me crazy, but i hated the camera angle when i played the demo but it's grown on me a lot.

[Spooky]

Thanks so much guys! That info helps a lot. One last question...are you guys playing 'Arcade' or 'Normal' and what are the main differences?

[GTHobbes]

Thanks so much guys! That info helps a lot. One last question...are you guys playing 'Arcade' or 'Normal' and what are the main differences?

Glad to help, Spook. I play on Pro mode exclusively -- biggest difference I can see is that the playbook is EXTREMELY limited on arcade mode. On pro mode, I have pretty much all the plays I need in the book (something else that could be expanded upon in BB2, but there's more than enough there for me now).

Also, I'm not sure if you can set "form" on the demo, but I bumped up mine to "very good." Supposedly, "form" is the setting for how the rest of your team plays. Maybe it's just a placebo effect, but my team does seem to play a little better as a result.

[matthewk]

Scrolling through the teams last night I noticed that it seems most teams have better ratings on defense than offense. I wonder if they jusy upped the ratings for the OL if that would reduce some of the sacks, INTs, and tackles for a loss.

As someone who is easily affected by moving camera angles (i.e. I get seasick very easy), I am happy to say that this camera has not made me quesy yet. I was worried about this, but it has been fine so far.

I don't even want to recreate the NFL..This is not an NFL game, and I'm better off not trying to match this up with either the NFL or NCAA. It's still football, and I love it for what it is.

I have a feeling that once I get used to how to use the controls that things will get even better. There is a certain feeling of depth there. Things like shedding blockers and chooing which way to try and get around them is real nice. The camera will take some getting used to, but I feel the rewards of "getting it" will be worth it. I've already improved my passing by using the focus button and by occasionally changing my primary reciever pre-snap.

[matthewk]

Thanks so much guys! That info helps a lot. One last question...are you guys playing 'Arcade' or 'Normal' and what are the main differences?

Glad to help, Spook. I play on Pro mode exclusively -- biggest difference I can see is that the playbook is EXTREMELY limited on arcade mode. On pro mode, I have pretty much all the plays I need in the book (something else that could be expanded upon in BB2, but there's more than enough there for me now).

You can have both by using custom. I use the advanced playbook, but I also have a lot of the arcade elements turned on, like the player highlight.

[grtwhtsk]

Are the rosters in the game the real players, but with different names? If so, are they current, or old teams? Sorry guys, I'm just late to the "dance."

Oh, one more question, PS3 or Xbox 360? Any version supposedly better than the other?

[JRod]

If you read abners or bill Harris impressions, that sums up my evening's experience except for one thing.

Yes the qb ai makes stupid decisions, but I think they gave way too much advantage to the defense. I don't know how you test this but if they scaled down how fast and smart the defense was and then increase it on the other side, I think you would have a very balanced game.

I don't know if there's one problem or just a chain of problems causing the AI issues. It's like they can play smart when they want to but they just don't choose to do so that often.

All-in-all my feeling is that the defense is too good. It knows where passes will be but the WRs don't. It gets a better push off the line than the OL. LBs are quicker to get to the ball carrier than the Rb can react. If at the most it can lower the prowess of the defense and up the qb accuracy this game would be a very good game aside from the first year quirks.

Madden may be the complete package but I don't know how I could go back and feel like i'm apart of the action or that the action is being generated by the events on the field.

I don't agree this is a tech demo...when the AI does something right it's looks like the real thing. I would put it right near NFL 2k (the first one) as a game.