OT: Lost is back!

[wco81]

From the Uncharted 2 thread, Lost was introduced. Rather than add more posts about Lost there, I'm moving part of it here.

They were sneaky about gradually putting in the supernatural elements which seemed like throwing in the kitchen sink approach. Given how popular movies and shows featuring vampires, werewolves, etc. have become, it was a commercially savvy decision in the way they shaped the story.

I don't want to cock up the Uncharted 2 thread, but that's just a ridiculous statement. There is nothing in the current Lost storyline to tie into the explosion of vampire/zombie/snuff horror. Nothing. Furthermore, they established the mystical elements early, with dead people appearing, Locke's cure, etc. You're acting like it was a desert island version of Alive, when it's always had supernatural undertones. As they have gradually explored the island, they've (wait for it) unraveled more and more of a mystery.

I can understand if people don't like the show -- no problems here -- but people often criticize the show for elements that are at the core of the story, like the time-travel. That's like saying "I'd love the X-Files if it wasn't for the aliens" or wishing a John Woo movie had more realistic gunplay.

I'm not saying Lost integrated elements from other genres which have become popular. But we're now well beyond scientifically-plausible explanations, unless in the next couple of months, they can provide a satisfactory exposition of the nature of the smoke monster, alternate timelines, resurrection, etc.

Time travel or alternate time-space continua were not core elements in the first couple of seasons. They've only become so in the last couple of seasons.

Here's an interview in which Lindelhoff and Cuse on the one hand say it's going to have Jurassic Park-like plausibility and on the other hand say they reserve the right to go in a more "mythic" direction.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/s ... 60693.html

Sounds like a modern version of deus ex machina. That is, tap into the "magical" when they get stuck somewhere in the plot.

One of the early criticism of the series was that there was no overall plot for the series, that they were making things up, to keep it on the air, etc.

In the interview, they claim there is an "uber-plan" but if that plan had any kind of artistic coherence, they wouldn't have to mix and match elements from different genres, unless they're saying the whole story is deliberately a mish mash.

The style and tone of the episodes have varied a lot (or lacked consistency). The early seasons were flashback-heavy and showed the characters, especially how their past may affect their behavior early on on the island. Now, does any of that matter? Or the Dharma Initiative? Or the first Others, or Ben? They kept introducing new characters, dispatching old ones in a seemingly haphazard way.

That plan must be pretty busy.

[ScoopBrady]

But we're now well beyond scientifically-plausible explanations, unless in the next couple of months, they can provide a satisfactory exposition of the nature of the smoke monster, alternate timelines, resurrection, etc.

How can anyone who watched the first several episodes expect a scientifically plausible explanation for this show? I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom how that could be an expectation for Lost.

I believe we're heading for the island being some sort of afterlife limbo place where their fates are being decided. I'd be fine with that.

[Feanor]

Breaking news: A show which featured a monster made of smoke and a dead guy walking and talking in the first season contains supernatural elements that were expanded upon in later seasons.

[wco81]

there's nothing to expand upon. They could simply have shown the nature of the smoke monster. They didn't show it at first. In one early episode, one of the characters was being chased by it in broad daylight, knocking down trees in the way. Did that character tell the other survivors there was this weird smoke tossing around trees and coming directly at him/her?

No they held that back. And they did that to string viewers along. But they've done that for 5 or 6 seasons now.

Even this season, they're suppose to be wrapping things up, they have a POV sequence of the smoke speeding through the jungle (not knocking down trees as if it was some huge dinosaur like the first season) and then the shot switches to the possessed Locke.

They didn't show if the smoke morphed into Locke or if Locke was being carried along by the smoke.

If the being which is/controls the smoke is interesting enough, they could have revealed its nature years ago and still had enough story elements to keep viewers interested.

Instead, it's a plot gimmick, to hold it back. And the characters are complicit. Not much people discussing this thing after it's killed several people. You would think there would be constant discussion, about how to avoid running into it or what could it be and so on. But no, they just accept that it's around even though they don't know its nature.

[Feanor]

there's nothing to expand upon. They could simply have shown the nature of the smoke monster. They didn't show it at first. In one early episode, one of the characters was being chased by it in broad daylight, knocking down trees in the way. Did that character tell the other survivors there was this weird smoke tossing around trees and coming directly at him/her?

Yes.

On day one, the survivors witnessed trees being trampled and heard disturbing noises emanating from the jungle.

The next day, the survivors gather around with each other to discuss what they had seen and heard the previous night, and Rose states that the sounds that it made were very familiar to her.

There was clearly plenty to expand on with regards to the dead Christian Shepard appearing alive and well on the island and the smoke monster, and they have done so throughout the course of the show. Why would they reveal everything about one of the show's biggest mysteries right away? Calling it a plot gimmick in nonsensical.

Locke isn't possessed, he's dead and buried. The smoke monster is able to take on his form. The first episode of this season confirmed that with the "I'm sorry you had to see me like that" line. The POV sequence is no threat to them wrapping things up.

There has been more than enough discussion amongst the main characters about the smoke monster given they don't know what it is, only that it's dangerous. And constant discussion about it (or any mystery on the show) would not make for great TV.

[Brando70]

They didn't show if the smoke morphed into Locke or if Locke was being carried along by the smoke.

If the being which is/controls the smoke is interesting enough, they could have revealed its nature years ago and still had enough story elements to keep viewers interested.

Instead, it's a plot gimmick, to hold it back. And the characters are complicit. Not much people discussing this thing after it's killed several people. You would think there would be constant discussion, about how to avoid running into it or what could it be and so on. But no, they just accept that it's around even though they don't know its nature.

They made it clear that the smoke monster is a manifestation of the Man in Black, and that he had taken the form of Locke, who is dead.

Also, why is it so hard to understand that, from the POV of the survivors, they wouldn't understand the nature of the monster? Not to say the writers haven't pulled gimmicks or strung things along -- they definitely did earlier, especially in seasons 2 and 3. Once they settled on a definitive end to the series (six seasons), however, the show tightened up considerably.

It's natural, when writing a mystery, that you unravel the mystery gradually. The special qualities of the island were there from season 1, including supernatural elements. The time-travel issue was introduced with Desmond's character at least two seasons ago. I don't see the show as having made some left turn, it's just expanded its scope (and in the process explained some things while opening up new questions).

If people don't like Lost, that's fine. It's not for everyone. And perhaps the end will not be satisfying. But if you're looking for a show that answers every question and concludes in a neat, orderly, logical fashion, why are you even watching Lost when there are 1000 other shows that operate that way? This is a messy, complicated, sometimes contradictory show, and that's part of its appeal.

[wco81]

Lost didn't change the nature of the story abruptly but its style and tone has moved around a lot. Sure Jack saw ghosts which could be supernatural or could be something happening in his mind.

Smoke monster should be a constant subject of discussion. You're stranded thousands of miles from civilization and this unexplainable thing is killing people. It should be uppermost on their minds, because survival is the primary task at hand. When they encounter Damon and the Others, it would be natural to ask if they know what it is, how they deal with it, etc.

Hell, look at how much discussion it has elicited among viewers.

Like I said, if you were to try to watch the series in a short period of time, like a week or two, the differences in tone and style would be more apparent. For instance, people may characterize it as a mystery but in the early seasons, it was all flashbacks, showing how the characters came to end up on the fateful flight. As it turns out, they may have been "chosen" by Jacob to come to the island, so all that flashback stuff is beside the point because the suggestion is that some person or force made them come or it was their destiny.

If the people behind the show changed or they admitted they've changed gears several times (made it up as they go along), it wouldn't be a problem. But it's been the same showrunners, who claim there's been a plan all along.

As far as the ending, they haven't said they may not tie all loose ends or that the world is complex and there's a lot of ambiguity, things don't have a clear-cut resolution, etc. Frankly that's becoming a crutch for some show producers, to have an unresolved ending or maybe an artsy, circular one. This is a freaking TV show, not Finnegan's Wake.

[Feanor]

Damon?

[Brando70]

As far as the ending, they haven't said they may not tie all loose ends or that the world is complex and there's a lot of ambiguity, things don't have a clear-cut resolution, etc. Frankly that's becoming a crutch for some show producers, to have an unresolved ending or maybe an artsy, circular one. This is a freaking TV show, not Finnegan's Wake.

That is the attitude that ruins most TV shows. Why can't a show be challenging and aspire to be more than one-hour of forgettable entertainment? Not to say that Lost is like great literature, but it works in part because it has literary elements -- character development, existential conflict, and a comfort with messy resolutions. I enjoy having to work a little to watch it.

[TheCentralScrutinizer]

Darlton have on numerous occasions made clear the nature of the story/how the ending will tie everything together: it's all taking place inside of Vincent's head.

[RobVarak]

Whoa! I have to nominate that episode as one of the darkest of the entire series. Really enjoyed it, though.

[Brando70]

Whoa! I have to nominate that episode as one of the darkest of the entire series. Really enjoyed it, though.

No kidding. The tension in Claire's scenes last night was incredible.

I also have to hand it to the show this season -- they are KILLING ME with the endings each week. Lost has always been good with the cliffhanger ending, but every week this season I'm practically at the edge of my seat when the "LOST" logo comes up.

[wco81]

Claire needs a bath.

ABC promos say the time for questions is over.

So they're all little pawns in some game between two forces, kind of like that backgammon or go game Locke was playing on the beach writ large.

[wco81]

So this article seems to confirm the suspicions that the writers and producers were making up the story as they went along and they wandered down paths and raised questions which now they're admitting they won't answer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03497.html

"We're big fans of the show 'Top Chef,' " he explained. "Those guys all run through Whole Foods and they have to pull all of this stuff down -- they have to get stuff they might not use in the dish. When they get to the kitchen, they have to decide whether or not they're going to use it. Our process is kind of the same."

"There's a lot of little questions that unfortunately we just don't have time to answer in the amount of time that we have left," co-creator Cuse told the uber-fans.

What with trying to keep all the intertwining story lines straight, it's probably slipped his mind that the "time we lave left" was determined years ago by Cuse and Lindelof themselves, which would seem to suggest that running out of time was something they had, um, planned.

Back in May of 2007, ABC and the creative team behind the weedy tangle of a series announced the show would end in the spring of 2010. Nearly three years later, at the Paleyfest, Cuse said of any unresolved plot issues: "Ultimately, the way we look at it is that if the characters don't care about that question, then we as storytellers don't care about that question."

Of course, what the characters do and do not care about is decided upon by . . . well, Cuse and Lindelof, come to think of it. Because the characters are, you know, not real people.

What are the chances that a year or two later, the producers say due to popular demand, they're going to produce a movie to tie up everything?

[Feanor]

Not every question will be answered; the entire story of Lost wasn't all written in 2004. This has been known for years and is only news to you.

Before a couple of weeks ago a lot of people assumed the numbers would never be explained, and they were. There's been plenty of meaty answers already this season.

[greggsand]

Not every question will be answered; the entire story of Lost wasn't all written in 2004. This has been known for years and is only news to you.

Before a couple of weeks ago a lot of people assumed the numbers would never be explained, and they were. There's been plenty of meaty answers already this season.

Define "meaty answers"? I'd argue nothing has really been explained so far. The #'s were pretty easy: it's settings on a mirror in a lighthouse that no one ever saw before. ah....

[wco81]

The #'s were pretty easy: it's settings on a mirror in a lighthouse that no one ever saw before. ah....

And how did those numbers come up on the exact time Hugo played the lotto?

Because that lotto was responsible for not just him ending up on the island but Locke as well. Didn't Locke work for the box company that Hugo owned, the same company which sent him to Australia?

[greggsand]

The #'s were pretty easy: it's settings on a mirror in a lighthouse that no one ever saw before. ah....

And how did those numbers come up on the exact time Hugo played the lotto?

Because that lotto was responsible for not just him ending up on the island but Locke as well. Didn't Locke work for the box company that Hugo owned, the same company which sent him to Australia?

I thought hugo won the lotto, got arrested, and was sent to an insane asylum. Oh never mind, you're talking about the new stuff they 'cooked up' this season. I guess we'll never get an explanation on season 2 thru 4 cuz that was a "different timeline" that was erased by a WII bomb...

[Danimal]

The #'s were pretty easy: it's settings on a mirror in a lighthouse that no one ever saw before. ah....

And how did those numbers come up on the exact time Hugo played the lotto?

Because that lotto was responsible for not just him ending up on the island but Locke as well. Didn't Locke work for the box company that Hugo owned, the same company which sent him to Australia?

I thought hugo won the lotto, got arrested, and was sent to an insane asylum. Oh never mind, you're talking about the new stuff they 'cooked up' this season. I guess we'll never get an explanation on season 2 thru 4 cuz that was a "different timeline" that was erased by a WII bomb...

Still better then anything on CBS

[webdanzer]

I'm not a big fan of the show, but this:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/dharm ... rmaClock_5

is great!!!

[vader29]

Little more than 2 hours until the series finale, was a nice ride and I hope it's a good ending.

[Danimal]

I'm sure many will disagree but I thought the finale was excellent and satisfying. I won't post anything because west coasters haven't seen it yet.

Easily one of the best TV series I have ever watched.

[HipE]

I thought it was an epic finale fitting of an epic series. It didn't answer many of the questions, but I'm not the least bit disappointed by it, it exceeded my expectations. Very emotional episode as well, I didn't realize how invested I was in many of these characters and storylines.

[Brando70]

I was admittedly rather perplexed when it ended last night and wasn't sure I liked it. But after thinking about it this morning, I do think it was a good and very fitting ending to a great show. In fact, it's the first time I've ever finished watching a series and immediately wanted to go back and watch it over again.

[RobVarak]

I was admittedly rather perplexed when it ended last night and wasn't sure I liked it. But after thinking about it this morning, I do think it was a good and very fitting ending to a great show. In fact, it's the first time I've ever finished watching a series and immediately wanted to go back and watch it over again.

I actually went back and watched the last 25 right away. I think the ending was just about perfect and very true to the themes and history of the show. I was surprised by how emotional some of the "re-awakenings" were. Was it manipulative and implausible even by the established rules of the show at times? It was, but that was consistent with the entire series. Loved it anyway.