NHL Playoffs 09. Drop The Puck.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:09 am

10spro wrote:
Burrows, Burrows, Burrows.

WHAT?

That was AWESOME!!!!

Guess I was wrong about the Blue Jackets.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:09 am

An objective hockey fan? Surely, you've never lived in Missouri.

Just kidding, St. Louis Posse!

Take care,
PK

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:24 am

Leebo33 wrote:I'm highly biased, but it was a legit goal. Even the homer Flyers announcers (the same ones that were b*tching that Malkin is never called for penalties literally 1 minute after he just left the box) weren't complaining on CSN and said it was a goal.

That makes 2 of us!!

I still couldn't find a replay showing he got his stick on it after watching the replay a billion times, and I was suspicious of the way the NHL changed their explanation of why it was a good goal 30 minutes after the announcement on the ice. I'm really just torturing myself at this point, complaining about calls from several games ago in a game the Flyers were outplayed in anyway

EDIT: I was referring to the game 1 goal here, and I now I see Leebo was talking about last night's goal. All mixed up here....

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:52 am

pk500 wrote:An objective hockey fan? Surely, you've never lived in Missouri.

Regarding the Crosby goal even though the puck seems to hit his skates first, the fact that he didn't purposely steer it towards the net makes it legal, it was a bang bang play, fluky goal for sure but what should bother Flyers' fans besides Fleury stoning them, Matt Cooke got two points in the game.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:12 am

I'm not a big Crosby guy. He seems to whine a lot. Maybe I'm just becoming a Flyers fan LOL, but he seems like a big baby. No one can deny his talent, though.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:42 am

fletcher21 wrote:I'm not a big Crosby guy. He seems to whine a lot. Maybe I'm just becoming a Flyers fan LOL, but he seems like a big baby. No one can deny his talent, though.

Guess you never were a Gretzky fan, either, as there was no bigger on-ice complainer in the NHL during the 80s and 90s than The Great One.

I revere Gretzky. But his on-ice whining is legendary.

Take care,
PK

EZSnappin · Post by **EZSnappin** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:02 am

pk500 wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:I'm not a big Crosby guy. He seems to whine a lot. Maybe I'm just becoming a Flyers fan LOL, but he seems like a big baby. No one can deny his talent, though.
Guess you never were a Gretzky fan, either, as there was no bigger on-ice complainer in the NHL during the 80s and 90s than The Great One.

I revere Gretzky. But his on-ice whining is legendary.

Take care,
PK

Gretzky was a whiner in an age without many; Crosby is a whiner in an era full of them. To me, the fact that he stands out from the huge pack of complainers makes it more egregious. Plus, talented as he is, he isn't the Great One reincarnated, so I'm not cutting him any slack.

In the NBA, LeBron does the same thing and it makes me think less of him.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:10 am

Goal or no goal, whiner or not...Let's Go Pens!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:10 am

This blog is so spot-on about VERSUS' programming decisions. I can't believe VERSUS went to the studio last night in the 45 minutes between the end of the early game and the start of the Anaheim-San Jose game instead of cutting away to the Vancouver-St. Louis overtime:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanth ... ersus.html

Thank God for NHL Center Ice.

Take care,
PK

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:32 am

pk500 wrote: I revere Gretzky. But his on-ice whining is legendary.

It's becoming off the ice as well behind the Coyotes bench.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:38 am

It's OK to daydream for Burkie:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blog ... third.aspx

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:46 am

pk500 wrote:This blog is so spot-on about VERSUS' programming decisions. I can't believe VERSUS went to the studio last night in the 45 minutes between the end of the early game and the start of the Anaheim-San Jose game instead of cutting away to the Vancouver-St. Louis overtime:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanth ... ersus.html

Thank God for NHL Center Ice.

Take care,
PK

I believe it...I lived it

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:57 am

pk500 wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:I'm not a big Crosby guy. He seems to whine a lot. Maybe I'm just becoming a Flyers fan LOL, but he seems like a big baby. No one can deny his talent, though.
Guess you never were a Gretzky fan, either, as there was no bigger on-ice complainer in the NHL during the 80s and 90s than The Great One.

I revere Gretzky. But his on-ice whining is legendary.

Take care,
PK

Nope, never was a big 99 fan. Favorite playes have been Bure, Roenick, Domi and I used to be a big Mogilny guy back in the mid 90's.. There's a name I haven't heard in 10+ years. Alexander Mogilny. I used to own people's ass at Nhl93 and Nhl94 with him. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, but I can't relate to the current "stars" now days. Ovechkin and Sydney do nothing for me. I could be a huge Gaborik fan, if he ends up on a team that can get the most out of him. He reminds me of Bure with his blinding speed, but Bure was a more prolific scorer. Nhl seemed like more of a game than a business back in the 90s, but I'm sure I was just a naive kid who didn't see things for what they were.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:59 am

Yep.. we blew it!

Good luck the rest of the way Canucks!

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:13 pm

fletcher21 wrote:
pk500 wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:I'm not a big Crosby guy. He seems to whine a lot. Maybe I'm just becoming a Flyers fan LOL, but he seems like a big baby. No one can deny his talent, though.
Guess you never were a Gretzky fan, either, as there was no bigger on-ice complainer in the NHL during the 80s and 90s than The Great One.

I revere Gretzky. But his on-ice whining is legendary.

Take care,
PK
Nope, never was a big 99 fan. Favorite playes have been Bure, Roenick, Domi and I used to be a big Mogilny guy back in the mid 90's.. There's a name I haven't heard in 10+ years. Alexander Mogilny. I used to own people's ass at Nhl93 and Nhl94 with him. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, but I can't relate to the current "stars" now days. Ovechkin and Sydney do nothing for me. I could be a huge Gaborik fan, if he ends up on a team that can get the most out of him. He reminds me of Bure with his blinding speed, but Bure was a more prolific scorer. Nhl seemed like more of a game than a business back in the 90s, but I'm sure I was just a naive kid who didn't see things for what they were.

I think a lot of it is being a naive kid Fletch, but moreso in regards to favorite players.

The NHL really transformed into more of a business in the mid-90s with all the expansion and ESPN contracts, so there's something to that, but it has been that way for a while.

As to players, you said you loved Mogilny because the guy was ridiculous in NHL '93, and I imagine that was your main impression of him. Did you ever see him play much? Read articles about him as a person? Or was he mainly just a few pixels on a screen with outrageous speed and shooting ratings on NHL 93?

It's a lot harder to find faults and personal distaste with a 16-bit computer representation of a player than when evaluating the real person, which you are probably doing with Crosby and Ovechkin today. For my money Ovechkin is probably the most 'exciting' player I've ever seen, even if he is a little attention hungry as a person.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:18 pm

Good call on Bure, Fletch. The Russian Rocket was one of the few players I can recall in my 35 years of watching hockey who caused me to stand from my couch when he was on the rush. Guy Lafleur is another, Glenn Anderson when he crashed the net, Paul Coffey on his end-to-end rushes, Denis Savard with his spin-a-ramas and now Ovechkin. Sadly, Orr's knees gave out right around the time I started watching hockey. The footage of Orr is breathtaking.

But Mogilny? Glad your allegiance to him was due to video game prowess, as I struggle to think of a player with more unfulfilled talent in the last two decades. The guy had world-class skills and junior mite fortitude. Lazy, undisciplined, you name it.

Mogilny had the skill to be an all-time great if he applied himself. But he never thought that was necessary. Kovalev is much the same these days. When he turns it on, he's fantastic. But that switch stays in the Off position far too often.

Take care,
PK

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:24 pm

Naples, yeah a lot of it is based on video games. After the 93 season, the North Stars moved away and I rarely got a chance to watch Nhl hockey anymore, besides the few games that were on tv. There was no internet and no Nhl Center Ice, so without a home team hockey kinda dried up here. I was also 11 years old in 93, so I didn't know that much about the game. My first ever memory is watching Bure in the All Star game in 92 or 93. The game where Ed Belfour came out to clear the puck and completely missed it lol. I'm definitely gonna get the Center Ice package next year. I have zero interest in the Wild, and Versus only shows 1 game a week during the regular season.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:27 pm

fletcher21 wrote: Nope, never was a big 99 fan. Favorite playes have been Bure, Roenick, Domi and I used to be a big Mogilny guy back in the mid 90's.. There's a name I haven't heard in 10+ years. Alexander Mogilny. I used to own people's ass at Nhl93 and Nhl94 with him. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, but I can't relate to the current "stars" now days. Ovechkin and Sydney do nothing for me. I could be a huge Gaborik fan, if he ends up on a team that can get the most out of him. He reminds me of Bure with his blinding speed, but Bure was a more prolific scorer. Nhl seemed like more of a game than a business back in the 90s, but I'm sure I was just a naive kid who didn't see things for what they were.

Oh Pavel, if it wasn't for his bummed knee he could have played easily for another 5 years. But he was a whiner too.

Mogilny wasn't as explosive as the Russian Rocket, but he was lethal when given a chance to score. He had his best years in BUF and a couple of good ones in VAN but would always disappear at the most innoportune time. He was mostly lacksaidal.

Just ask Lou in NJ where he had to pay big bucks to the Russian just to play in the minors during the last years of his career.

fletcher21 · Post by **fletcher21** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:29 pm

No one can forget "the mother of all elbows" that Bure put on Shane Churla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oYABjkWiJc

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:31 pm

EZSnappin wrote:
pk500 wrote:
fletcher21 wrote:I'm not a big Crosby guy. He seems to whine a lot. Maybe I'm just becoming a Flyers fan LOL, but he seems like a big baby. No one can deny his talent, though.
Guess you never were a Gretzky fan, either, as there was no bigger on-ice complainer in the NHL during the 80s and 90s than The Great One.

I revere Gretzky. But his on-ice whining is legendary.

Take care,
PK
Gretzky was a whiner in an age without many; Crosby is a whiner in an era full of them. To me, the fact that he stands out from the huge pack of complainers makes it more egregious. Plus, talented as he is, he isn't the Great One reincarnated, so I'm not cutting him any slack.

In the NBA, LeBron does the same thing and it makes me think less of him.

Crosby is no more a whiner than many other great players who by the very nature of the sport are going to have the most opportunities to whine due to puck possession time, ice time in general, and the fact they are huge targets.

I think Sid's matured a lot since his first season in the league when he was 18 years old. Unfortunately, a lot of fans of opposing teams will hold onto the immature actions of a (barely) 18 year old against him his entire career. Has Sid really complained much in this current playoff series? He's got 20k morons screaming that he sucks and pretty much just goes out and does exactly what every hockey fan should respect. He plays very hard, isn't afraid to crash the net, he's back checking, he's creative, and he's fun to watch. He's a great ambassador for the game and he seems like a solid citizen and a good guy.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:39 pm

Leebo33 wrote:Crosby is no more a whiner than many other great players who by the very nature of the sport are going to have the most opportunities to whine due to puck possession time, ice time in general, and the fact they are huge targets.

I agree 100%...

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:52 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Leebo33 wrote:Crosby is no more a whiner than many other great players who by the very nature of the sport are going to have the most opportunities to whine due to puck possession time, ice time in general, and the fact they are huge targets.

I agree 100%...

Yeah, well said, Leebo. I was thinking the same thing when LeBron was mentioned as a whiner. I'm probably being a total homer here, but I don't think he whines any more than anyone else, it's just that he's constantly the center of attention, so everything he does gets magnified, the good and the bad.

Either way, I hope he's still whining deep into June!

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:54 pm

John Stevens was really scathing about Crosby's goal last night, not because of what body part it came off of, but because he thought goaltender interference should have been called.

Pittsburgh took a 1-0 lead when Flyers-killer Crosby scored as Kunitz's pass bounced off his body and into the net with 16:41 left in the second period. The play was reviewed, but the goal stood because the puck went off Crosby's stick and then his body, and he did not use a batting motion.

"Chris Kunitz threw it at the net, so I just went hard to the far post and got my stick on it," Crosby said. "Maybe it hit my leg or something too, but I was just trying to drive to the net."

Crosby also slid into the net. Flyers coach John Stevens thought goalie interference should have been called.

"I'd like to know why he can knock Marty into the net," Stevens said.

"We didn't put the puck at our feet and throw ourselves in the net, which obviously is allowed now," Stevens said. "Other than that, I thought we played a good hockey game."

I think he feels the noose tightening.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:37 pm

It still blows my mind that coaches and goalies haven't realized over the four seasons since the lockout that open season on goalies has expanded since defensemen can't blatantly cross-check and grab guys to move them out of the crease like they did in the Dark Ages before the lockout.

Players crash the net harder than ever, and goalies are in the crosshairs. The NHL will continue to look the other way on these calls because fans enjoy the contact and it's an easy way to keep scoring elevated without a significant, obvious rule change.

Guys like Stevens and Brodeur -- and everyone else who whines about this -- should just shut the f*ck up and realize the NHL is consistent with every team and player about goaltender interference these days. It's become the new "penalty in OT from before 2005-06" of the NHL. In other words, it's not going to be called unless it's blatant.

Take care,
PK

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:47 pm

lexbur wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
Leebo33 wrote:Crosby is no more a whiner than many other great players who by the very nature of the sport are going to have the most opportunities to whine due to puck possession time, ice time in general, and the fact they are huge targets.

I agree 100%...
Yeah, well said, Leebo. I was thinking the same thing when LeBron was mentioned as a whiner. I'm probably being a total homer here, but I don't think he whines any more than anyone else, it's just that he's constantly the center of attention, so everything he does gets magnified, the good and the bad.

Either way, I hope he's still whining deep into June!

I point to this years NHL player survey:
QUESTION 4: WHICH PLAYER COMPLAINS THE MOST ON THE ICE?
Sidney Crosby (52%)
Chris Pronger (8%)
Sean Avery (7%)
Steve Ott (5%)
Ryan Getzlaf (4%)
Shane Doan (3%)
Marc Savard, Darcy Tucker (2%)
Todd Bertuzzi, Mike Richards, Kris Draper (1%)
8 players with one vote.

Notice how guys like Malkin and Ovechkin are not on the list. Surely there is much more to Crosby's whining than 'puck possession time, ice time in general, and being a target' or else all top scorers, and in particular Alex Ovechkin, would be on that list.

FACT: Crosby's a very talented player who whines a lot. As PK points out, so was Gretzky, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a whiner.