OT: Election/Politics thread, Part 6

[pk500]

It seems from the video discussion that Emanuel is having second thoughts about becoming Chief of Staff.....

I honestly think the only reason Emanuel took the job was to avoid creating an embarrassing snub to Team Obama from their first high-level job selection.

Emanuel has said he wants to be Speaker of the House -- tough to do that when you're not in Congress. He also was very wary of removing his three kids from middle and elementary school in Chicago and bringing them to Washington.

Sure, the Chief's job carries a ton of power. But Emanuel already was building that in Congress, especially a Congress that now will be dominated by Democrats.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

This seems germaine to the discussion LOL

<embed src="http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/eyeblast.swf?v=e46Ueu6USU" allowfullscreen="true" width="518" height="419" />

WTF is Matthews talking about? Maybe he's going to be Obama's press secretary.

Good for Scarborough to hold Matthews' feet to the fire and play "hardball" with him, further exposing him for the Obama c*ck-sucking shill that he is.

Take care,
PK

[Feanor]

Matthews made a fool of himself, I agree.

Somehow I don't think the IHT is going to be considered an outlet for true news with articles like this:

After the imperial presidency

Read the fine print: That's a excerpt from an upcoming piece in the New York Times Magazine, which is filled with commentary and analysis.

Take care,
PK

I read the bold print at the top:

THE GLOBAL EDITION OF THE NEW YORK TIMES

As Ann Coulter will tell you, there's nothing in that paper that's true or news.

[Brando70]

It seems from the video discussion that Emanuel is having second thoughts about becoming Chief of Staff.....

I honestly think the only reason Emanuel took the job was to avoid creating an embarrassing snub to Team Obama from their first high-level job selection.

Emanuel has said he wants to be Speaker of the House -- tough to do that when you're not in Congress. He also was very wary of removing his three kids from middle and elementary school in Chicago and bringing them to Washington.

Sure, the Chief's job carries a ton of power. But Emanuel already was building that in Congress, especially a Congress that now will be dominated by Democrats.

Take care,
PK

A tough decision for him, I'm sure, because he does have a bright Congressional career. But at the same time he'll wield a lot of power and he doesn't have to run for re-election.

He's a good pick for the position. The chief of staff needs to get s*** done and be the president's blunt instrument when needed. Emmanuel is very capable on both fronts.

[wco81]

What the hell does being Catholic have to do with liberalism or conservatism? Are you Catholic?

If you're assuming that most Catholics are Republicans, you're off the mark.

This is only one example, but my parents are devout Catholics and are hardcore Democrats. Yes, the abortion plank troubles them, but they -- like me -- feel abortion is more of a religious and moral issue than a political one. They also are strong believers in government social programs as an extension of the work for the poor and sick that the Church does, so they always vote Democratic.

Take care,
PK

Lot of Catholics have voted with the Religious Right. Pretty sure Bush won their vote handily in 2004, despite Kerry being the Catholic.

The also supported Reagan.

Yes, a lot of them are Democrats but many of the working class Catholics are similar to Pat Buchanan.

[wco81]

The chief of staff needs to get s*** done and be the president's blunt instrument when needed. Emmanuel is very capable on both fronts.

But that doesn't represent the new kind of politics that Obama promised, they say.

[Naples39]

By 1972, however, Catholic voting had changed. In that election, and in every one since, Catholics have cast their votes for the popular vote winner, in numbers not too dissimilar from the public at large.

In other words, Catholics have become a bellwether block – as go Catholics, so goes the nation. In the extremely close 2000 election, Catholics were nearly as evenly divided as the country as a whole, siding slightly for Al Gore over George W. Bush, 50 percent to 47 percent, and helping Gore to his narrow popular vote win.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/ ... 8886.shtml

By 2004, Catholic voters preferred Republican George W. Bush over Catholic John Kerry, 52% to 48%

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... ing_c.html

Hard to make the case that being catholic indicates anything about political preferences.

[Jackdog]

Lot of Catholics have voted with the Religious Right. Pretty sure Bush won their vote handily in 2004, despite Kerry being the Catholic.

The also supported Reagan.

Yes, a lot of them are Democrats but many of the working class Catholics are similar to Pat Buchanan.

Only 21% of Catholics are either strongly or weakly affiliated as a
Republican. This is the lowest number of Catholic Republicans in a long
time, even going back before 2000 when Al Gore won the Catholic vote.
(23% R in 06) and (31% R in 04).

60% Catholics are D's to 36% Catholics are R's when leaners are
included.

http://www.catholicdemocrats.org/news/2 ... cathol.php

[matthewk]

The chief of staff needs to get s*** done and be the president's blunt instrument when needed. Emmanuel is very capable on both fronts.

But that doesn't represent the new kind of politics that Obama promised, they say.

Who are "they"?

[pk500]

Lot of Catholics have voted with the Religious Right. Pretty sure Bush won their vote handily in 2004, despite Kerry being the Catholic.

The also supported Reagan.

Yes, a lot of them are Democrats but many of the working class Catholics are similar to Pat Buchanan.

Wow. Two examples. That's in-depth.

Catholics have supported the popular vote winner in every election since 1972. So I don't think Catholics are cozying up to the Religious Right with any regular pattern.

And what is the source for your Catholic-Buchanan link, and what connection does their Catholicism have to do with Buchanan-like views? None.

Some Catholics are racist. Does that make all of them racist? Some Catholics support the Iraq War. Does that mean Catholic priests are preaching pro-war sermons from the altar? Some Catholics support the adoption of female priests. Does that make it an official position of the Catholic Church?

You're not just painting with a wide brush; you're slopping on the paint with a roller as wide as a football field.

You simply can't pigeon-hole Catholics as easily as the Religious Right. No one calls Catholics the "Catholic Left" or the "Catholic Right," and there's a reason for that.

There really are times where your drive-by Wikipedia searches disguised as omniscience need to take a rest. This is one of them.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Lot of Catholics have voted with the Religious Right. Pretty sure Bush won their vote handily in 2004, despite Kerry being the Catholic.

Also remember one thing about 2004: Kerry's chances with the Catholic voting bloc were doomed once Kerry was chastized publicly by some Catholic bishops about his pro-choice position.

American bishops rarely make such public proclamations during a campaign, and some Catholics take that more seriously than any piece of political campaign propaganda. That was a tipping point for Kerry.

Plus Kerry was a prick about it, baiting the bishops by blatantly taking Holy Communion in front of the cameras despite his pro-choice position and insisting that his pro-choice position had no effect whatsoever on his standing as a Catholic. That pissed off a lot of devout Catholics.

Take care,
PK

[GTHobbes]

Admittedly a small sample size, but my parents were Catholic democrats who voted for Bushie both terms, solely on account of the abortion issue.

[pk500]

One thing to consider when making the ill-advised connection between Catholics and the Religious Right.

American Catholics comprise a MUCH more diverse group than the Religious Right. Catholics are comprised of every race, while the vast majority of the Religious Right is white. That has an effect on the vote, since immigration issues and social programs may be more important to a Latino voter than a white voter.

American Catholics also are much more varied in their religious intensity than the Religious Right. Many people who call themselves Catholic voters may not attend Mass regularly. Others may be regular communicants who disagree with some Vatican teachings, better known as "cafeteria Catholics," while others are regular communicants who march in lockstep with the Vatican.

The Religious Right voting bloc seems to be more consistent in its beliefs and religious practices than the American Catholic voting bloc and bases its political beliefs much more on its religious beliefs than American Catholics.

Again, it's called the "Religious Right" for a reason. And you don't hear the term "Cafeteria Protestant" in any discussion of the Religious Right.

Take care,
PK

[RobVarak]

I'm really trying to sip a bit of kool-aid and hope for the best, but seeing the officious bastard standing behind a sign that says "Office of the President-Elect" really doesn't make things any easier.

Somebody on his staff is just tone deaf when it comes to some of these aesthetic decisions. It simultaneously manages to look both presumptuous and Junior Varsity. Would it kill him to stand up there with less than 5 American flags and a simple podium? LOL

[wco81]

Obviously pro-choice Catholics get elected in the NE, like Pataki and Giuliani.

But in other regions, they're not that different from the Christian Right.

Buchanan himself is an Irish Catholic and it's not surprising they have some resentment against new immigrants. A lot of them remain working-class and the Hispanic immigrants compete for similar jobs.

You can say it's about illegal immigration but not all Irish-Americans arrived in the US legally either.

[XXXIV]

Newsweek Washington Post column...

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... umber.html


Obama won catholic vote 55%-44%

While McCain won the evangelicals 75%-24%

So...spin on ...

[Brando70]

I'm really trying to sip a bit of kool-aid and hope for the best, but seeing the officious bastard standing behind a sign that says "Office of the President-Elect" really doesn't make things any easier.

Somebody on his staff is just tone deaf when it comes to some of these aesthetic decisions. It simultaneously manages to look both presumptuous and Junior Varsity. Would it kill him to stand up there with less than 5 American flags and a simple podium? LOL

You're complaining about the number of flags NOW? Have you been flag-blind for the last eight years?

Anyway, the AP has a list of names being considered for various posts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081107/ap_ ... appointees

Like the idea of Bill Richardson as Secretary of State, and I agree with Rob that I think Kerry is ill-suited for that position. Would be interesting if Obama stuck with Gates as defense secretary.

However, I'm not sure, given the goal of trying to improve some of our strained international relations, having a Secretary of State named "Dick Lugar" is a good idea.

[pk500]

Obviously pro-choice Catholics get elected in the NE, like Pataki and Giuliani.

But in other regions, they're not that different from the Christian Right.

Buchanan himself is an Irish Catholic and it's not surprising they have some resentment against new immigrants. A lot of them remain working-class and the Hispanic immigrants compete for similar jobs.

You can say it's about illegal immigration but not all Irish-Americans arrived in the US legally either.

And your point? Your characterization of the Catholic voting bloc resembles a game of blindfolded darts.

In other words, you've answered what we've been trying to say here this afternoon: It's damn near impossible to categorize the Catholic voting bloc as easily as the Religious Right.

Thanks for playing.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

I'm really trying to sip a bit of kool-aid and hope for the best, but seeing the officious bastard standing behind a sign that says "Office of the President-Elect" really doesn't make things any easier.

Somebody on his staff is just tone deaf when it comes to some of these aesthetic decisions. It simultaneously manages to look both presumptuous and Junior Varsity. Would it kill him to stand up there with less than 5 American flags and a simple podium? LOL

On one hand, the "Office of the President-Elect" sign is incredibly tacky. But on the other hand, and please try to expunge any partisan thought, can you cats remember a more invisible President at the end of their final term than Bush right now?

The guy didn't campaign publicly for McCain. The guy has made no speeches other than his reassurance speech during the financial meltdown. I know the focus was on the election, but you hear or read almost nothing about the guy.

Honestly, I don't blame Team Obama for filling the void of visible leadership since Bush has seemingly disappeared in thin air. That's not a commentary on Bush's policies but more of an observation of his recent visibility.

Take care,
PK

[Rodster]

can you cats remember a more invisible President at the end of their final term than Bush right now?

The guy didn't campaign publicly for McCain. The guy has made no speeches other than his reassurance speech during the financial meltdown. I know the focus was on the election, but you hear or read almost nothing about the guy.

Take care,
PK

You would too if you had the lowest approval rating of any sitting President.

[XXXIV]

can you cats remember a more invisible President at the end of their final term than Bush right now?

The guy didn't campaign publicly for McCain. The guy has made no speeches other than his reassurance speech during the financial meltdown. I know the focus was on the election, but you hear or read almost nothing about the guy.

Take care,
PK

You would too if you had the lowest approval rating of any sitting President.

The man has found his niche.

[Rodster]

The man has found his niche.

Too bad he couldn't have found that niche 8 years ago.

[fletcher21]

nothing like some good old politics to bring us dsp guys together huh

[wco81]

Like the idea of Bill Richardson as Secretary of State, and I agree with Rob that I think Kerry is ill-suited for that position.

Some arguments against both Richardson and Kerry:

Richardson's résumé includes Clinton administration stints as energy secretary and as U.N. ambassador. He didn't perform either job particularly well. As energy secretary, Richardson rashly accused Los Alamos official Wen Ho Lee of espionage—a charge later proved false. As U.N. ambassador, Richardson didn't do anything anyone can remember except offer Monica Lewinsky a job three months before the story of her affair with President Clinton hit the Internet. "He has no great beliefs," observed Slate's David Plotz in June 2000, "which may be why he didn't mind flattering despots." Richardson has twice broken the world's record for most handshakes in an eight-hour period. He's very proud of this. Don't you find that alarming?

Also, do not appoint John Kerry. The 2004 election demonstrated that nobody likes him. That isn't disqualifying for a senator, but it is for a diplomat.

http://www.slate.com/id/2203909/

As for todays press conference, some were urging him to put his economic team together ASAP but I heard one market guy said, before Obama came out to speak, that it would be AFTER the market closed, instead of about an hour before.

I remember Clinton holding some proceedings which were televised, during the transition period. I believe it had to do with economic issues, because he was also taking over at a time when the economy had been in decline. He demonstrated he had a grasp of the various issues being brought forward by various people.

Something like that might be reassuring. I haven't read what Obama actually said, so maybe he touched on issues of interest.

[Teal]

Well, I'll be damned...I may have found something for which I can actually support Obama:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/n ... &type=lgns

“I think it is about time that we had playoffs in college football,” Obama said Monday on ESPN. “I’m fed up with these computer rankings and this and that and the other. Get eight teams – the top eight teams right at the end. You got a playoff. Decide on a national champion.”

Hell just might have felt a chill wind...