OT: Election/Politics thread, Part 6

[Teal]

Free market mechanisms have led to banking and health care crisis. Social conservatism isn't important when there's a war and the economy is on the cusp of depression. And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

This is one of the stupidest things I think I've ever read. If you think that those are the true tenets of Christianity, you're as in the dark as the fundamentalist nutjobs who blow up abortion clinics...just on the other ragged edge. Jeez. Christianity has nothing to do with all that. That social justice Christianity, 'Jesus-was-a-social-justice-community-organizer' baloney is just pop culture nonsense. It isn't what He was here for...it's WAY too small of a picture.

[Teal]

I don't know about social conservatives being on the outs.

The GOP lost more moderates in the NE this week, continuing a trend from 2006.

Their national representation is now even more weighted towards the South and the Plains states.

That's a fair point. But in order for them to win and get back these seats, just being social conservative isn't going to get them elected.

Being moderate sure didn't do 'em a helluva lot of good, did it? Never has, never will. They aren't going to win back anything kowtowing to liberals by being fence riding moderates. All fence riding ever did was shrivel the nuts of the guy who insisted on doing it.

[Jackdog]

And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

One of my favorite Bible passages is Jesus among the herdsmen, dispersing the steer and casting out their flatulence. For Galilee, they say, was hella hot.

[Jackdog]

I don't know about social conservatives being on the outs.

The GOP lost more moderates in the NE this week, continuing a trend from 2006.

Their national representation is now even more weighted towards the South and the Plains states.

That's a fair point. But in order for them to win and get back these seats, just being social conservative isn't going to get them elected.

Being moderate sure didn't do 'em a helluva lot of good, did it? Never has, never will. They aren't going to win back anything kowtowing to liberals by being fence riding moderates. All fence riding ever did was shrivel the nuts of the guy who insisted on doing it.

[Jackdog]

Free market mechanisms have led to banking and health care crisis. Social conservatism isn't important when there's a war and the economy is on the cusp of depression. And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

This is one of the stupidest things I think I've ever read. If you think that those are the true tenets of Christianity, you're as in the dark as the fundamentalist nutjobs who blow up abortion clinics...just on the other ragged edge. Jeez. Christianity has nothing to do with all that. That social justice Christianity, 'Jesus-was-a-social-justice-community-organizer' baloney is just pop culture nonsense. It isn't what He was here for...it's WAY too small of a picture.

You mean Christ didn't come here too hook my people up on the welfare?

[Brando70]

And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

One of my favorite Bible passages is Jesus among the herdsmen, dispersing the steer and casting out their flatulence. For Galilee, they say, was hella hot.

Keep your head in the sand if you want, Web, but it's all spelled out in the Book of Meteorology. "And verily I say unto you, Today will show the rise of The Roker, and he will grow to gianmorous proportions until he filleth up the screen, and lo will the polar bears drown and the brownouts ensue."

[DivotMaker]

Palin-Jindal '12

Rob,

Are you really rooting for the ticket above? Even with stuff like this coming out?

Smith: Now that the election is over, Carl, tell us more about those reports of infighting between Palin and McCain staffers.

Cameron: I wish I could have told you more at the time but all of it was put off the record until after the election. There was great concern in the McCain campaign that Sarah Palin lack the degree of knowledgeability necessary to be a running mate, a vice president, and a heartbeat away from the presidency. We’re told by folks that she didn’t know what countries were in NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, that being the Canada, the US, and Mexico. We’re told she didn’t understand that Africa was a continent rather than a country just in itself … a whole host of questions that caused serious problems about her knowledge ability. She got very angry at staff, thought that she was mishandled…..was particularly angry about the way the Katie Couric interview went. She didn’t accept preparation for that interview when the aides say that that was part of the problem. And that there were times that she was hard to control emotionally there’s talk of temper tantrums at bad news clippings...

I guess you and many others are overlooking the gaffes that Biden spoke publicly...you know...when he claimed that Obama has the same calming influence that FDR had during the Great Depression (FDR was not President) when FDR spoke to the nation on TV (TV was not yet invented)...

or

"Yes we have to travel to 55 states during this campaign" (maybe not exact word for word, but the mistake is just as bad as anything Pailin stated)....

In the heat of battle, it is easy for ANYONE to state things improperly or even become somewhat confused. Instead of making mountains out of these minor "molehills", I choose to judge Sarah Palin on what she has accomplished in her short time as Governor of one of the most corrupt states in the Union. The media descended upon her like a pack of pit bulls from the minute she was announced as McCain's running mate and it is this same bullshit liberal bias that so many people latch on to because "if it is negative about someone, then it MUST be true". So many Americans have been duped by the media and believe what they hear over taking a bit of time to research claims made by the media. Today, I take what the media says about ANYTHING with a grain of salt and I still feel dirty for giving them even that much crediblity.

And lastly, Katie Couric is a certified c***. Period.

[JackB1]

Matt and Jack,

If you guys are going to loudly and angrily talk past each other, can you please take it to the PMs? Thanks.

That's great, but kinda hard to do when Matt sends me a pm saying "don't bother replying because I won't open it".

[Naples39]

In the heat of battle, it is easy for ANYONE to state things improperly or even become somewhat confused.

I'm not sure I believe these leaks at the moment, but there is a big difference between a mis-statement while giving a live talk, and simply displaying gross ignorance behind the scenes when there are no crowds or cameras around.

[Jared]

Matt and Jack,

If you guys are going to loudly and angrily talk past each other, can you please take it to the PMs? Thanks.

That's great, but kinda hard to do when Matt sends me a pm saying "don't bother replying because I won't open it".

Well then I guess it's the end of your discussion with him, isn't it? When I say take it to PMs, I don't mean take it to PMs, then complain to me in the thread about it. I mean take it to PMs...and if he doesn't open your PMs, then that discussion is over.

[DivotMaker]

In the heat of battle, it is easy for ANYONE to state things improperly or even become somewhat confused.

I'm not sure I believe these leaks at the moment, but there is a big difference between a mis-statement while giving a live talk, and simply displaying gross ignorance behind the scenes when there are no crowds or cameras around.

Of course you don't because no one is talking about them...at least the media isn't.

[Brando70]

Matt and Jack,

If you guys are going to loudly and angrily talk past each other, can you please take it to the PMs? Thanks.

That's great, but kinda hard to do when Matt sends me a pm saying "don't bother replying because I won't open it".

Well then I guess it's the end of your discussion with him, isn't it? When I say take it to PMs, I don't mean take it to PMs, then complain to me in the thread about it. I mean take it to PMs...and if he doesn't open your PMs, then that discussion is over.

UNSUBSCRIBE

[Feanor]

I guess you and many others are overlooking the gaffes that Biden spoke publicly...you know...when he claimed that Obama has the same calming influence that FDR had during the Great Depression (FDR was not President) when FDR spoke to the nation on TV (TV was not yet invented)...

And lastly, Katie Couric is a certified c***. Period.

FDR was President from 1933, and the Great Depression didn't end until WWII started.

It's not Couric's fault that Palin didn't prepare properly for the interview they way she did for the interview with Gibson.

[Teal]

Free market mechanisms have led to banking and health care crisis. Social conservatism isn't important when there's a war and the economy is on the cusp of depression. And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

This is one of the stupidest things I think I've ever read. If you think that those are the true tenets of Christianity, you're as in the dark as the fundamentalist nutjobs who blow up abortion clinics...just on the other ragged edge. Jeez. Christianity has nothing to do with all that. That social justice Christianity, 'Jesus-was-a-social-justice-community-organizer' baloney is just pop culture nonsense. It isn't what He was here for...it's WAY too small of a picture.

You mean Christ didn't come here too hook my people up on the welfare?

Not unless you believe Jesus looked like this...

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[Jared]

In the heat of battle, it is easy for ANYONE to state things improperly or even become somewhat confused.

I'm not sure I believe these leaks at the moment, but there is a big difference between a mis-statement while giving a live talk, and simply displaying gross ignorance behind the scenes when there are no crowds or cameras around.

Agreed. I think Obama said something like he had visited 57 states when he clearly meant 47 states. That's a bit different than simply not knowing a litany of things that are important to know as a politician. There's really no equivalency between Palin's mistakes and Obama/Biden's gaffes, and it really surprises me how much people go out of the way to defend her. She's just not that knowledgeable.

By the way, I'm not really sure if what was reported in that video about Palin was true or not. (I'm leaning towards it being true, as it's not surprising given the average American's knowledge of geography and her past public performance.) Even if it's not true, it spells trouble, since it's a clear indication that people in the McCain camp are trying to torpedo any possibility of Palin 2012.

Though I would love to see her run and get the nomination anytime in the future. Unless Obama really is a closet socialist who will ruin the country, Palin = Republican loss.

[Teal]

In the heat of battle, it is easy for ANYONE to state things improperly or even become somewhat confused.

I'm not sure I believe these leaks at the moment, but there is a big difference between a mis-statement while giving a live talk, and simply displaying gross ignorance behind the scenes when there are no crowds or cameras around.

Of course you don't because no one is talking about them...at least the media isn't.

Where do you think Jared got the info from? Wonder of wonders...FOX NEWS!

[DivotMaker]

I guess you and many others are overlooking the gaffes that Biden spoke publicly...you know...when he claimed that Obama has the same calming influence that FDR had during the Great Depression (FDR was not President) when FDR spoke to the nation on TV (TV was not yet invented)...

And lastly, Katie Couric is a certified c***. Period.

FDR was President from 1933, and the Great Depression didn't end until WWII started.

It's not Couric's fault that Plain didn't prepare properly for the interview they way she did for the interview with Gibson.

He was not President when the Great Depression hit and there was NO television then.....

I'll give you the lack of preparation, but I can't stand Couric regardless of who she is interviewing....

[JackB1]

Smith: Now that the election is over, Carl, tell us more about those reports of infighting between Palin and McCain staffers.

Cameron: I wish I could have told you more at the time but all of it was put off the record until after the election. There was great concern in the McCain campaign that Sarah Palin lack the degree of knowledgeability necessary to be a running mate, a vice president, and a heartbeat away from the presidency. We’re told by folks that she didn’t know what countries were in NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, that being the Canada, the US, and Mexico. We’re told she didn’t understand that Africa was a continent rather than a country just in itself … a whole host of questions that caused serious problems about her knowledge ability. She got very angry at staff, thought that she was mishandled…..was particularly angry about the way the Katie Couric interview went. She didn’t accept preparation for that interview when the aides say that that was part of the problem. And that there were times that she was hard to control emotionally there’s talk of temper tantrums at bad news clippings...

Wow

I'm sure this is just the tip of the Palin iceberg. Unfortunately I dont think she's going away quietly. It wouldn't surprise me if she sued her campaign handlers.

[Jared]

He was not President when the Great Depression hit and there was NO television then.....

There was television then, though the first commercial broadcasts in the US didn't start until 1939. This is a gaffe, but I'd think it's pretty minor. I mean, are you equating this gaffe (saying FDR consoled people on TV instead of the radio) with for example, not being able to name a Supreme Court case outside of Roe v Wade that was bad? Or being wrong about the role of the Vice President? Or thinking Africa was a country?

[XXXIV]

I remember when FDR walked on the moon with Stretch Armstrong.

[JRod]

Free market mechanisms have led to banking and health care crisis. Social conservatism isn't important when there's a war and the economy is on the cusp of depression. And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

This is one of the stupidest things I think I've ever read. If you think that those are the true tenets of Christianity, you're as in the dark as the fundamentalist nutjobs who blow up abortion clinics...just on the other ragged edge. Jeez. Christianity has nothing to do with all that. That social justice Christianity, 'Jesus-was-a-social-justice-community-organizer' baloney is just pop culture nonsense. It isn't what He was here for...it's WAY too small of a picture.

It's what he did and taught.

Much like the constitution wasn't prepared for certain current day problems it provides a foundation to base justice and democracy upon.

The teachings of Jesus have been perverted into being self-serving. While the bible doesn't address global warming, health care and poverty (actually the bible does address this in parts), the teachings of Christ do lend themselves for individuals to take on humane issues like the ones mentioned.

[RobVarak]

He was not President when the Great Depression hit and there was NO television then.....

There was television then, though the first commercial broadcasts in the US didn't start until 1939. This is a gaffe, but I'd think it's pretty minor. I mean, are you equating this gaffe (saying FDR consoled people on TV instead of the radio) with for example, not being able to name a Supreme Court case outside of Roe v Wade that was bad? Or being wrong about the role of the Vice President? Or thinking Africa was a country?

The gaffe was inconsequential. What was more telling to me was the delivery, as it was with all of his campaign gaffes. That's always the thing with Biden. Whether he's wrong, lying, dissembling or being foolish, he delivers everything with full bluster. Windbaggery at its finest. I expect him to end every blast of verbal diarrhea with Lee Elia's, "And you can print it!"

On an unrelated note, it's nice to see the AP getting around to doing its job:

Even after nearly two years in the spotlight, little is understood about the 47-year-old first-term senator's approach to leadership. His resume: community organizer, eight years as state legislator, and less than four as U.S. senator.

As a lawmaker, he has displayed a knack for working with Republicans on a handful of favorite issues. But he has devoted most of his time in the Senate to running for president. Unlike the past seven presidents, he was never a governor or vice president. And unlike John F. Kennedy, the last senator to move directly to the presidency, Obama has not commanded troops in wartime.

Personally, he's a bit of an enigma, too.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081106/ap_ ... ctations_9

[Jackdog]

What exactly is the "mission" now that is almost complete? We just agreed to stay in Iraq until 2011. And then, there is still no guarantee that the Iraqi's will be able to handle things there by themselves.

Train Iraq's security force. Provide protection until they can take over their country. Anbar provice was turned over in September. Since the surge,the mission is almost complete. I hear from my friends there that Baghdad is boring and they are ready to go back to Afghanistan.

That's totally your right and it won't change with Obama. He is letting everyone who is happy with their current coverage keep it as is.

It will cost us more too cover those that can't pay. I don't mind paying taxes. I don't like paying hidden taxes. I also don't want to pay for health coverage for those that can but won't.

That is a great deal...but you deserve that and much more for your service to our country.

Thanks Jack. I'm doing OK. VA did everything they could for my wounds.

[JRod]

What exactly is the "mission" now that is almost complete? We just agreed to stay in Iraq until 2011. And then, there is still no guarantee that the Iraqi's will be able to handle things there by themselves.

Train Iraq's security force. Provide protection until they can take over their country. Anbar provice was turned over in September. Since the surge,the mission is almost complete. I hear from my friends there that Baghdad is boring and they are ready to go back to Afghanistan.

That's totally your right and it won't change with Obama. He is letting everyone who is happy with their current coverage keep it as is.

It will cost us more too cover those that can't pay. I don't mind paying taxes. I don't like paying hidden taxes. I also don't want to pay for health coverage for those that can but won't..

There's no too many health care coverages that I can think of that do this. Even Medicare punishes you for not signing up when you are eligible.

Even private plans have enrollment sessions so you can just sign up when you are sick. I would imagine that a hybrid plan would also do this.

There's enough evidence in industrial nations to have a public/private hybrid that covers the under and uninsured but not have a UK model which would be heavily opposed in the US. Problem is when people hear universal health care, they think Hillary. There are other models out there that would be better for the US. It just takes us not running for the hills when someone mentions universal health care.

[Teal]

Free market mechanisms have led to banking and health care crisis. Social conservatism isn't important when there's a war and the economy is on the cusp of depression. And those social issues that they fought for, ended up to be policies of hate. Directly hypocritical to their beliefs as Christians. It wasn't until late where many social conservatives took on poverty, global warming, health care, the true tenants of Christianity.

This is one of the stupidest things I think I've ever read. If you think that those are the true tenets of Christianity, you're as in the dark as the fundamentalist nutjobs who blow up abortion clinics...just on the other ragged edge. Jeez. Christianity has nothing to do with all that. That social justice Christianity, 'Jesus-was-a-social-justice-community-organizer' baloney is just pop culture nonsense. It isn't what He was here for...it's WAY too small of a picture.

It's what he did and taught.

Much like the constitution wasn't prepared for certain current day problems it provides a foundation to base justice and democracy upon.

The teachings of Jesus have been perverted into being self-serving. While the bible doesn't address global warming, health care and poverty (actually the bible does address this in parts), the teachings of Christ do lend themselves for individuals to take on humane issues like the ones mentioned.

Nope. Sorry. I was a pastor for over 20 years, and have been a believer in Christ for nearly 30. What Christ came here to do has nothing to do with what you've said here. None of it is BAD, really (although the global warming stuff is just lunacy), and people who ascribe to our faith should want to bring light and life into dark places...but Christ's mission had nothing to do with that. He didn't engage politics at all, even though he was born into a society under the thumb of an oppressive Roman government, and his people (the Jews) were in constant conflict with the Roman government. He was asked about political matters, and he brushed them aside.

In the book of Mark, Jesus heals a girl in a little town. The next morning, the WHOLE town showed up to receive the same kind of healing. The disciples couldn't find Jesus anywhere. When they DID find him, he was off by himself, praying. After they breathlessly reported that the WHOLE TOWN was there to see him...he said 'Let's go somewhere else'. Just left all those sick and hurting people behind. Why?

Because of what he said next: "I must be about telling the good news of The Kingdom-for that is why I came."

There WILL be social justice, equality, healing, restoration, all that. And through his people, we can enact a LITTLE of that here and now, and should. But Jesus' cause was to redeem his people, to bring them back into friendship with Him-not to take up social causes. But the utopia stuff? We won't ever get that here. Because He's got plans to restore EVERYTHING...but not now.

To shrink him down to the level of a social rights activist is to totally miss what he was about altogether. And besides, it's not the job of government at any level to do all this stuff. Individual responsibility is the key, and community living from a heart that has been transformed to be able to. But the point is for US to do it, not whine and moan for the government to.