OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:32 pm

Great video Adam. Piquet was pissed to say the least.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:52 pm

GB_Simo wrote:
pk500 wrote:No driver in F1 has produced a drive anything near McNish's brilliance at Petit Le Mans.
True, but even Piquet Jr waits for the race to start before he has an accident. I'm not arguing, mind; it was a glorious drive, but Allan didn't leave himself a lot of room to produce anything else.

True, true. But it's not like McNish's career is rife with those kinds of mistakes.

GB_Simo wrote:I can't say Eliseo Salazar all that quickly so I guess I'm keeping the faith for a while yet. I know where Eliseo comes from, though, which is more than dear old Murray did:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXbGDcMe ... re=related

I was thinking EXACTLY of that incident when I used the name Eliseo Salazar!

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:04 pm

I'm taking a wild punt here and assuming I'm the only one at DSP with nothing better to do on a Friday night than follow Autosport's live Grand Prix weather updates:

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/60

I know the wet weather will add more than a little spice to proceedings should it arrive in time for the race on Sunday, but Interlagos generally serves up a decent race in the dry, and I'd be happier somehow if the championship was decided without the Brazilian rains that caused such chaos the last time they fell on race day.

Rod, come out and back Lewis again if you want: my Granda's had a bet on him, and neither you nor anything else on Earth can do more damage to sporting prospects than that...

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:19 pm

LOL, let's just say I hope Hammy wins. He's clearly the better driver vs Felipe. Too bad his car blew up on the last lap in Hungary. Because Sunday's race would be much tighter.

All Lewis needs to do is stay out of trouble and avoid car gremlins. I'll say this, watch out for Alonso. He's the wild card on Sunday and has no qualms taking Lewis out of the race if given the opportunity.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:29 pm

Rodster wrote:All Lewis needs to do is stay out of trouble and avoid car gremlins. I'll say this, watch out for Alonso. He's the wild card on Sunday and has no qualms taking Lewis out of the race if given the opportunity.

Nah. Alonso has been at pains these last few days to make clear that his continued digs in the press are aimed at his old team, not his old team mate. Quite apart from that, while he is a hard racer and not the man I'd want to see Lewis fighting for 5th on Sunday, he's well aware of where the line is. Even I don't expect Fernando to do anything silly, and I'm the Brit here.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:53 pm

Gents:

Away from F1 again for a moment, I've just been alerted to the fact that it's exactly 9 years since Gregg Moore was lost in that awful accident at Fontana. I followed CART as closely as a UK-based 14 year old with no Internet access could in 1999, but it was never possible for me to form an opinion of most of the drivers that I felt was totally solid.

My question, then, is this: getting away from the overdone statements of greatness that are bound to accompany such a case of talent lost, how good was he?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:55 pm

Massa has no chance if it's wet, even if it's Interlagos. The guy has shown a fundamental lack of ability in the damp stuff this season, while Hamilton was masterful in the monsoon at Silverstone.

Honestly, I hope it's dry. That will make it more of a fair fight, because Lewis will slaughter Alonso in the wet.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:00 pm

GB_Simo wrote:My question, then, is this: getting away from the overdone statements of greatness that are bound to accompany such a case of talent lost, how good was he?

Good enough that he was headed to Penske for the 2000 season. The Captain doesn't hire slugs.

I think it's no stretch of the imagination to say that Greg Moore's face would have been on the Borg-Warner Trophy as an Indianapolis 500 winner at least once right now -- probably more -- if not for the tragedy at Fontana.

Rick Mears was the absolute master of ovals during the last 30 years. He preserved his equipment, stayed near the front, constantly working on the car at the stops to get it right for the final stint. And when that final stint came, The Rocket would stand on the gas and blow everyone away.

Many compared Moore's style to that of Mears, and it wasn't a daft comparison at all. Moore was THAT good.

A real loss to motorsport. Thanks for the reminder, as time sadly has caused many to forget his immense talent.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:14 pm

GB_Simo wrote:My question, then, is this: getting away from the overdone statements of greatness that are bound to accompany such a case of talent lost, how good was he?

Barring any unforseen accidents, I believe Moore definitely would have won the 2000 championship. I still think Moore was the best of all the Canadian drivers out there. However, I didn't think he was of the same calibre as Montoya or Francitti on road courses. But Moore had huge balls. I still have a picture on my wall (that I may have cut out of Autosport) with the caption "Last lap". The photograph is credited to Phil Abbott/LAT. It also states "Greg Moore, Christian[o] da Matta, Mark Blundell and Robby Gordon race four-abreast at the Fontana Superspeedway. It was to be Moore's last lap. Soon after, he spun across the grass and hit the concrete wall, suffering fatal injuries."

That was such an avoidable fatality. If the edge of the grass hadn't flipped him he would have walked away from it just like Richie Hearn did.

P.S. The 1999 CART season was the best season of auto racing I've ever watched. Now I haven't watched as much auto racing as many of you guys, but given what I've seen I can't think of anything that could have rivalled it. If I could find that season on a set of DVDs I'd consider buying it.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:25 pm

I hope it doesn't rain in Sao Paulo because even the best drivers can't do anything if there's an unpredictable river of water at the bottom of the track. I want a dry race without any surprises. Hamilton deserves it this year.

But if you want excitement, I would recommend watching the 2004 race. I think that race was Kimi's to lose and he lost it. Montoya just wanted it more than him. JPM was an abolute ANIMAL on his pit entry

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:37 pm

Smurfy wrote:P.S. The 1999 CART season was the best season of auto racing I've ever watched. Now I haven't watched as much auto racing as many of you guys, but given what I've seen I can't think of anything that could have rivalled it. If I could find that season on a set of DVDs I'd consider buying it.

I was an IRL loyalist -- and IRL employee! -- at that time, Smurf, but you'll get few arguments from me. That was one hell of an open-wheel season. The races were excellent, and the talent was remarkable: Montoya, Moore, Franchitti, De Ferran, Gugelmin, Castroneves, Kanaan, Blundell, Michael Andretti, Tracy, Vasser, Papis, Herta, Robby Gordon, Fernandez, etc. That was the deepest field in worldwide open-wheel racing that year, including F1.

The only North American open-wheel season since 1996 that compares is the 2002 IRL season in which Hornish and small Panther Racing beat Penske, Castroneves and de Ferran in Penske's first full-time season in the IRL. Unreal finishes, a ton of different winners from many different teams, insane racing. Definitely the IRL's finest hour.

Still, though, I've never had more thrills from a single season of motor racing than the 2006 MotoGP season, the last year of the 990s. That was "scream at the TV in suspense and delight every race" good. Nicky Hayden held off Valentino Rossi to win the title, with Rossi crashing out at the season finale at Valencia to secure the title for Hayden just one race after Dani Pedrosa took out teammate Hayden at Estoril, toppling Hayden from the points lead.

The 2001 World Rally Championship is a close second, as Richard Burns beat Colin McRae to the title by just two points. Just 11 points separated the top six in the championship that season, with five of those guys past or eventual World Champions named Burns, McRae, Makinen, Gronholm and Sainz.

The 1992 Winston Cup season was insane, too, as Alan Kulwicki rallied to win the title by just eight points. There were four guys -- Kulwicki, Bill Elliott, Ernie Irvan and Davey Allison -- within something like 25 points entering the season finale at Atlanta, and that was without a dopey, artificial Chase format.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:35 pm

Smurfy wrote:I hope it doesn't rain in Sao Paulo because even the best drivers can't do anything if there's an unpredictable river of water at the bottom of the track. I want a dry race without any surprises. Hamilton deserves it this year.

Might be out of luck on that one, according to the latest word at the link I posted earlier, but then they also say nobody will really know for sure until tomorrow dawns. I seem to recall steps being taken to prevent the drainage issues that did for Button, Schumacher, the two Minardis (both of whom might have won had they finished, but did neither) and whoever else in 2003, but I seem to recall a lot of things that didn't ever happen lately so take that for what it's worth.

I wonder if Lewis wouldn't want to be a bit further up the field, and if he couldn't have been fuelled a bit lighter to achieve that, but 4th is not a bad place to be as long as he gets away and he can't be too unhappy at having his teammate in position to play rear gunner in a car set up with top-end speed as a priority. The first corner at Interlagos isn't as bad as some are making out (this is known as 'setting yourself up for a fall', I believe) so it's there for the taking, but Massa looks well placed to score the maximum so it's all up in the air.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:44 pm

Smurfy wrote:I still have a picture on my wall (that I may have cut out of Autosport) with the caption "Last lap". The photograph is credited to Phil Abbott/LAT. It also states "Greg Moore, Christian[o] da Matta, Mark Blundell and Robby Gordon race four-abreast at the Fontana Superspeedway. It was to be Moore's last lap.

The thread on Atlas F1's Nostalgia Forum that prompted me to ask about Gregg has a post relating to that incident. The poster says his friend, a corner captain at station 1, was on the point of calling "yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow" when he saw Gregg make it four-wide, as if not believing they could possibly make it. Thanks to you and PK for your excellent replies.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:32 pm

This image always makes me smile

I agree with the assessments that Greg Moore was a champion in waiting.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:32 am

For all those who didn't think they'd live to see the day that Murray Walker mimed to a My Chemical Romance song:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6HO7j2EC_dI

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:52 pm

Holy. Sh*t.

I'm absolutely speechless about the drama of the final three laps of the Brazilian Grand Prix that I just watched.

That was insane. Motor racing suspense at its highest level.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:55 pm

OK, now that I'm recovering from that suspense: Did Glock hand fifth to his GP2 buddy Hamilton on the last lap, or did the Toyota have a mechanical problem or run out of fuel?

If he gave the spot to Lewis, oh, boy ...

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:07 pm

Sure sounds fishy but it's almost impossible to prove. I hope no one challenges the title like last year. Lets hope Hammy keeps the title and lets move on to next year.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:26 pm

Rodster wrote:Sure sounds fishy but it's almost impossible to prove. I hope no one challenges the title like last year. Lets hope Hammy keeps the title and lets move on to next year.

How is it impossible to prove? Just check the telemetry: If the throttle trace suddenly changed while fuel still was in the tank, it's obvious that Glock lifted to gift the spot to his old GP2 buddy Hamilton.

But Trulli and Glock were the only drivers who didn't pit for intermediates during the last shower, so it's VERY possible Glock had no grip on that final lap. He was 18 seconds ahead of Hamilton with one lap to go.

Unreal drama.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:30 pm

OK I see what your saying but I don't think that's illegal. All he has to say is he didn't want to impede or interfere with the title contenders.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:32 pm

It's something I've wondered myself, but it wasn't just Hamilton he let through, and Glock couldn't appear to get the power on at all up the hill, still fishtailing long after Lewis had gone by. It's come to something when our first posts after a race like that are discussing this, hasn't it?

I'll post more when I'm capable of forming a coherent sentence and can bring under control the hands that have shook with nervous tension for the last three hours.

Edit: PK, your edit rather beat me to the punch as far as Glock's lack of grip is concerned, but I'll state again that I saw nothing in the brief time he was in frame to indicate that he wasn't still trying.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:36 pm

Rodster wrote:OK I see what your saying but I don't think that's illegal. All he has to say is he didn't want to impede or interfere with the title contenders.

Double post. Sorry.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:38 pm

Rodster wrote:OK I see what your saying but I don't think that's illegal. All he has to say is he didn't want to impede or interfere with the title contenders.

Say what?

Glock was running FOURTH. Why would he give up Constructors points, worth millions of dollars to the team, to avoid "impeding" the title contenders? If that's the case, I would fire Glock on the spot if I was Toyota. His job is to score points for the team, not play nice for Lewis Hamilton.

Glock was not a lapped car. Plus Vettel, who was dueling with Hamilton for fifth, wasn't a title contender.

So I don't understand your point.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:40 pm

pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:OK I see what your saying but I don't think that's illegal. All he has to say is he didn't want to impede or interfere with the title contenders.
Say what? Glock was running FOURTH. He was not a lapped car. Plus Vettel, who was dueling with Hamilton for fifth, wasn't a title contender.

Take care,
PK

I still say let's not have another title protested and settled in the courts like last year. Let's all congratulate Lewis and move on to next year.

How much does that DNF at Hungary hurt both Massa and Ferrari now? Massa would be the Champ today even with the same results.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:49 pm

Let's end this one now, shall we? From Formula One live timing, the sector times of Glock and Trulli on the final lap:

Sector 1: Glock 24.8, Trulli 26.1
Sector 2: Glock 54.7, Trulli 55.7
Sector 3: Glock 25.0, Trulli 22.8

Laptime: Glock 1:44.5, Trulli 1:44.6

Slow last sector, which ties in with the fishtailing I saw, but if Glock was letting Hamilton past, what was Trulli's excuse?

Edit: Sorry, my final lap times are wrong; in my haste I didn't notice that the website timing was displaying them so I just added up the sectors. Add 2 tenths to each time.