OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 5

[RobVarak]

Thoughtful impressions later.

Main impression? Bob Schieffer makes John McCain look 35 years old.

[JackB1]

McCain has the right temperment to be a Senator. In that capacity, being a prick can be helpful. But he just comes off as bitter and irritable. If you just listened to both men, you would think Obama is the one who has the experience because he didn't really get rattled when McCain went after him.

McCain did get some good shots in, but he also is really bad when he strays off topic. The Joe the Plumber stuff was awkward and often clouded the point he was trying to make, while the "spread the wealth" mantra probably sounds appealing to a lot of people during tough economic times.

It's odd, because while McCain sounded tougher this time, he didn't really land the blows he needed because his delivery was off.

I had the same view. McCain came off more irritable and condescending than ever tonite and he keep rolling his eyes up in the air when Obama would start speaking. Obama succeeded at appearing more "Presidential" and stayed cool, calm and collected all the time. I don't think McCain did enough to make any major changes to the poll trends and so far most post debate polling groups are giving Obama a decisive victory. Even "Joe The Plumber" said he was still undecided

[Feanor]

I had a guy knock on my door today and tell me he was from a few streets over and his wife was about to have a kid and he needed some cash to help pay the upcoming medical bills.


I looked at him and said, I don't think so but never fear, when Racky Bamma gets elected and you come back to my house, he will force me to give you some cash.

Begging for cash door to door is pretty sad, but when only 63 percent of employers offer health plans, you're going to have a lot of desperate people. And not all of them are going to be unemployed layabouts deserving of our scorn.

[Jackdog]

I had a guy knock on my door today and tell me he was from a few streets over and his wife was about to have a kid and he needed some cash to help pay the upcoming medical bills.


I looked at him and said, I don't think so but never fear, when Racky Bamma gets elected and you come back to my house, he will force me to give you some cash.

Begging for cash door to door is pretty sad, but when only 63 percent of employers offer health plans, you're going to have a lot of desperate people. And not all of them are going to be unemployed layabouts deserving of our scorn.

No doubt, so condoms should be a must for those layabouts.

[Jackdog]

I had the same view. McCain came off more irritable and condescending than ever tonite and he keep rolling his eyes up in the air when Obama would start speaking. Obama succeeded at appearing more "Presidential" and stayed cool, calm and collected all the time. I don't think McCain did enough to make any major changes to the poll trends and so far most post debate polling groups are giving Obama a decisive victory. Even "Joe The Plumber" said he was still undecided

We'll see very soon. The only polls you should trust are installed at "The Cheetah".

[FatPitcher]

The problem is that Obama has been so set up, so elevated, that, in the minds of many, all he has to do is show up, and not say anything at all, while saying it smoothly and evenly.

McCain kept bringing issues up, Obama just sort of swatted them away, and he was (and consistently has been) allowed to without incident and without answer. He doesn't have to do anything but parry, and he's given credit for it. Absolutely unbelievable. NOT unprecedented-he's been doing that the entire time.

Answering questions directly is something we should only expect from our vice-presidents.

[greggsand]

Obama did a nice job. I loved the line re:Ayers "The fact that this has become such an important part of your campaign, Sen. McCain, says more about your campaign than it says about me". Oh no he didn't... lol.

McCain likes to talk about why u shouldn't vote for BO, but I'd rather hear why I should vote for McCain.

Given McCain's age, it's bad timing to have Cheney's ticker act-up. It just makes people think "what if". Ya Betcha

[RobVarak]

Too much FIFA tonight to discuss in depth, but I came across a great example of "objective" fact checking this evening.

So McCain has hammered Obama's vote to raise taxes on people making as little as $42k.

Factcheck.org has repeatedly screamed about this being false.

Their reasoning?

McCain has claimed yet again that Sen. Obama “voted twice for a budget resolution to increase taxes on individuals making $42,000 a year.” As we’ve reported, a single taxpayer making more than $41,500 would have seen a tax increase, but a couple filing jointly would have seen no increase unless they made at least $83,000, and for a couple with two children the cut-off would have been $90,000. Regardless, the increase that Obama once supported as part of a Democratic budget bill is not part of his current tax plan.

So Obama did in fact vote for a tax increase on people making more than $41,500, but McCain's claim is "false" because for two-earner families the number goes up to $83,000.00?

That's what we call bullshit around these parts LOL

Somebody send these people to a logic class, stat!

And the line about this increase not being part of Obama's tax plan is what old-time Italians would call a non sequitor.

So in case you're wondering? The claim that Obama voted to raise taxes on individuals making as little as $42k is not so much false as it is completely true. Other than that Factcheck has all their little ducks in a row LOL

I'm telling you the last objective journalist died about 22 years ago, I think.

[Teal]

McCain has the right temperment to be a Senator. In that capacity, being a prick can be helpful. But he just comes off as bitter and irritable. If you just listened to both men, you would think Obama is the one who has the experience because he didn't really get rattled when McCain went after him.

McCain did get some good shots in, but he also is really bad when he strays off topic. The Joe the Plumber stuff was awkward and often clouded the point he was trying to make, while the "spread the wealth" mantra probably sounds appealing to a lot of people during tough economic times.

It's odd, because while McCain sounded tougher this time, he didn't really land the blows he needed because his delivery was off.

I had the same view. McCain came off more irritable and condescending than ever tonite and he keep rolling his eyes up in the air when Obama would start speaking. Obama succeeded at appearing more "Presidential" and stayed cool, calm and collected all the time. I don't think McCain did enough to make any major changes to the poll trends and so far most post debate polling groups are giving Obama a decisive victory. Even "Joe The Plumber" said he was still undecided

What in the hell does this 'acting presidential' mean? Acting aloof? Acting arrogant? Acting like you're OD'ed on Prozac? What? This is the new 'gravitas' bullshit of 2000. Who decides what 'presidential' looks like?

Personally, I like a president who has some fire in his belly, and who isn't afraid to show it. Someone who gets angry, who is passionate. If I were having to debate Obama, you'd better believe I'd have rolled my eyes a helluva lot, too-and he'd be lucky if that's all I did. Why not get exasperated at an exasperating individual, who takes truth we have on film, on paper, in stone, and denies it when it's right there in front of him? He's the guy who SAID he wants to 'spread the wealth around'. There's no two ways about it-that is exactly what he said it is. As for the now infamous 'Joe Plumber', I'd imagine that he's refusing to clarify his voting preferrence because, dammit...well, it ain't any of anyone else's business. Why should he tell some f'ing reporter that?

'Act presidential'. Horse puckey.

[macsomjrr]

McCain has the right temperment to be a Senator. In that capacity, being a prick can be helpful. But he just comes off as bitter and irritable. If you just listened to both men, you would think Obama is the one who has the experience because he didn't really get rattled when McCain went after him.

McCain did get some good shots in, but he also is really bad when he strays off topic. The Joe the Plumber stuff was awkward and often clouded the point he was trying to make, while the "spread the wealth" mantra probably sounds appealing to a lot of people during tough economic times.

It's odd, because while McCain sounded tougher this time, he didn't really land the blows he needed because his delivery was off.

I had the same view. McCain came off more irritable and condescending than ever tonite and he keep rolling his eyes up in the air when Obama would start speaking. Obama succeeded at appearing more "Presidential" and stayed cool, calm and collected all the time. I don't think McCain did enough to make any major changes to the poll trends and so far most post debate polling groups are giving Obama a decisive victory. Even "Joe The Plumber" said he was still undecided

What in the hell does this 'acting presidential' mean? Acting aloof? Acting arrogant? Acting like you're OD'ed on Prozac? What? This is the new 'gravitas' bullshit of 2000. Who decides what 'presidential' looks like?

Personally, I like a president who has some fire in his belly, and who isn't afraid to show it. Someone who gets angry, who is passionate. If I were having to debate Obama, you'd better believe I'd have rolled my eyes a helluva lot, too-and he'd be lucky if that's all I did. Why not get exasperated at an exasperating individual, who takes truth we have on film, on paper, in stone, and denies it when it's right there in front of him? He's the guy who SAID he wants to 'spread the wealth around'. There's no two ways about it-that is exactly what he said it is. As for the now infamous 'Joe Plumber', I'd imagine that he's refusing to clarify his voting preferrence because, dammit...well, it ain't any of anyone else's business. Why should he tell some f'ing reporter that?

'Act presidential'. Horse puckey.

How about "acting healthy" and not looking like he is about to drop off the face of the Earth in the next four years leaving the hockey mom in charge of the WH. No thank you.

[Cue National Anthem, slow build up]

McCain has absolutely allowed the worst of him to be brought out in this election and I feel badly for him because of it. He makes snide comments, constantly rolls his eyes and looks away like a school girl being scolded for missing detention. It's unprofessional and oddly immature for a man his age. Obama looks aloof because he is an intelligent individual and unfortunately for the rest of us there are a lot of stupid people out there who are offended by those brighter than they are. Get over it. We need an intelligent, well-rounded, leader in the WH and Obama is the one to provide that leadership along with Biden. Look at what happened the last time we had an intelligent well educated figure in the WH, things were prosperous and life was good. The worst thing that happened involved a cigar and black dress. Now eight years later we look around and things are absolutely terrible. The deficit, a failing economy, a futile war, on and on... Is it all Bush? No. But I promise you he has contributed boatloads to the crappy position we find ourselves in as a country. It's time for change.

Oh and I curse this stupid thread!

[steps off soapbox]

[greggsand]

I've heard the term "looked presidential" about 30 times tonight on TV. Like it or not, it's an asset.

I agree with Macsomjr. McCain seems (and IS) old now, imagine 2 years from today.... Scary. If Obama was older than dirt, I wouldn't vote for him either.

[FatPitcher]

If Obama was older than dirt, I wouldn't vote for him either.

Somehow, I think you'd find a way to convince yourself.

[Rodster]

If Obama was older than dirt, I wouldn't vote for him either.

Somehow, I think you'd find a way to convince yourself.

[Jackdog]

Obama looks aloof because he is an intelligent individual and unfortunately for the rest of us there are a lot of stupid people out there who are offended by those brighter than they are. Get over it.

Smiling when you get asked a tough question about your past doesn't come off as intelligent too me. If he was so damn bright why did he attend Wrights church for 20 goddamn years? I could go on with the rest of the stupid assholes this "Messiah" has chose to hang with, but why bother? You would just call me stupid like you did to Teal.

Look at what happened the last time we had an intelligent well educated figure in the WH, things were prosperous and life was good. The worst thing that happened involved a cigar and black dress.

Not for those of us serving in the Military. He froze our pay raises and never finished(Mogadishu) what he started.

Clinton cuts:

709,000 REGULAR (ACTIVE DUTY) PERSONNEL.

293,000 RESERVE TROOPS.

EIGHT STANDING ARMY DIVISIONS.

20 AIR FORCE AND NAVY AIR WINGS WITH 2,000 COMBAT AIRCRAFT

232 STRATEGIC BOMBERS.

19 STRATEGIC BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES WITH 3,114 NUCLEAR WARHEADS ON 232 MISSILES.

500 ICBMs WITH 1,950 WARHEADS.

FOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND 121 SURFACE COMBAT SHIPS AND SUBMARINES PLUS ALL THE SUPPORT BASES, SHIPYARDS, AND LOGISTICAL ASSETS NEEDED TO SUSTAIN SUCH A NAVAL FORCE.

We sure could have used those 8 divisions and 293,000 reserve troops the last 5 years. Bill really showed us military folks some love.

Back to the present. BARR 08.

[GTHobbes]

I've heard the term "looked presidential" about 30 times tonight on TV. Like it or not, it's an asset.

I agree with Macsomjr. McCain seems (and IS) old now, imagine 2 years from today.... Scary. If Obama was older than dirt, I wouldn't vote for him either.

After the last 8 years, it sure is nice that we'll finally have someone who at least appears Presidential.

Give it up Teal, Rob, Jack, FP, etc....this one's over. Time to start thinking about who will run against Obama in 2012. I hope it isn't the hockey mom, but time will tell.

[FatPitcher]

I was also on active duty under Clinton. Miserable pay (about $12k/yr. for an E-4), miserable living conditions. MWR (Morale, Welfare, and Recreation) was shut down. Bowling alley and movie theater shut down, and no one could afford a car to go off-base for entertainment. $1.57 per day per person spent on food, so you know it was high quality. No phones in the barracks, but pay phones outside, so we had to spend 20 cents a minute on phone cards to call family and such. Officers leaving in droves because of pay and lack of opportunities for promotion because of the downsizing. And severe lack of confidence in the Commander-in-Chief's judgment on military matters. That's why the Democrats didn't sway many military people during Bush's term when they went on about VA funding and such. They just don't have any credibility on that issue.

[FatPitcher]

Give it up Teal, Rob, Jack, FP, etc....this one's over. Time to start thinking about who will run against Obama in 2012. I hope it isn't the hockey mom, but time will tell.

Spoken like a true "independent"!

At least two of us you named have already stated that we're not voting for McCain.

And no one likes a poor winner. Then again, no one really liked you before, either, so knock yourself out.

[Jackdog]

Give it up Teal, Rob, Jack, FP, etc....this one's over. Time to start thinking about who will run against Obama in 2012. I hope it isn't the hockey mom, but time will tell.

Thanks, but if I want your advice on my vote I'll ask for it.

[Jackdog]

If Obama is such a sure thing,why cheat??

Vote fraud in Ohio.
Palestra covers the story of a group of out-of-state "activists" who went to Ohio for a voter-registration project and registered themselves.

Motor-voter and "early voting" have destroyed the integrity of the American election system. The whole idea is to make voting so easy as to require no effort at all. But if someone is so slothful and uninvolved that they can't be bothered to go to the courthouse and register, then go down to the polling place on Election Day, what sort of informed decision do we expect that person to make?

Mass voter-registration projects tend to inflate the registration rolls, thus creating "phantom" votes (i.e., names on the roles of people who won't actually show up on Election Day) that can be manipulated in fraudulent elections. This is the Chicago Way.

http://www.palestra.net/videos/play/17241

Click on "Prosecutors Now Investigating Ohio Vote".

[pk500]

After the last 8 years, it sure is nice that we'll finally have someone who at least appears Presidential.

Will your tax increase appear presidential, too?

My mind is made up: I'm voting for Barr.

Choosing between Obama and McCain is like choosing between pepperoni or sausage on your pizza. Both want to vastly increase the size of the Federal government -- it's just a matter of which flavor of big government you prefer.

I prefer neither.

Take care,
PK

[Jackdog]

Even "Joe The Plumber" said he was still undecided

Really? Interview with Joe Wurzelbacher aka "Joe the Plumber".

http://familysecuritymatters.org/public ... detail.asp

PM: …taxing small businesses making $250,000 and above is going to help the people “behind you.” And yes, “spreading the wealth around.” How did you feel about that?

JW: As soon as he said it, he contradicted himself. He doesn’t want to “punish” me, but – when you use the word “but,” you pretty much negate everything you just said prior to that. So he does want to punish me, he does want to punish me for working harder to – you know, my big thing is the American Dream. I work hard. You know, I was poor; my mom raised me and my brother by herself for a very long time until my dad came along. So I know what it’s like to suffer. It’s not like I was born with a silver spoon. Usually it was a wooden spoon and it was on my butt. It was just a contradiction of terms, what he said: he doesn’t want to punish me but he wants to redistribute my wealth. And what I mean when I say my wealth, I mean the collective. Eventually – I mean, just to sound a little silly here, but you need rich people. I mean, who are you going to work for?

PM: Do you fear this is the possibility of America turning more down the socialist road if Obama does become elected and if he is able to implement these policies?

JW: Very much so. You start giving people stuff, and then they start expecting it – and that scares me. A lot of people expect it now. They get upset when their check’s late, they get upset when they don’t get as many benefits as they used to, or when different government agencies are cut or spending is cut here and there for whatever reason – people get upset at that. And that’s because they’re used to getting it and they want more. I mean, everyone’s always gonna want more. People work the system left and right to get more out of welfare, to get more out of state assistance, federal assistance. And if government’s there for them, they’re gonna keep on trying to manipulate it to get more out of it. You got people that come along and say, “Hey, I wanna help you people,” I mean, they’re all ears! They’re like, “Hey, you can help me more, I don’t have to work as hard, I don’t have to do as much, and you’re gonna give me this? Man, that’s great, you’re a good guy.”

So yeah, it goes down the socialist – His healthcare plan scares me. You know, I don’t like people going without healthcare, but it’s not my job to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. It’s hard enough paying for my own. I like the idea of deregulation as far as – nationally, you know, you only get insurance companies that can work in this state – if you deregulate that then you have more people competing and then the prices would go lower. It seems pretty simple to me. It probably isn’t that simple – but you flood the market with more products, usually they go down cheaper.

Doesn't sound real comfortable with Obama to me.

[Jackdog]

After the last 8 years, it sure is nice that we'll finally have someone who at least appears Presidential.

Will your tax increase appear presidential, too?

My mind is made up: I'm voting for Barr.

Choosing between Obama and McCain is like choosing between pepperoni or sausage on your pizza. Both want to vastly increase the size of the Federal government -- it's just a matter of which flavor of big government you prefer.

I prefer neither.

Take care,
PK

I came to that conclusion after the town hall debate. I wish our party did more to promote Barr and the party line. Until it does,our votes are like "Pissing in the wind". But at the very least we can sleep at night knowing we didn't help fleece Americans. That being said I hope Obama doesn't win. I don't agree with his policies on taxes and his friends.

[Jared]

And no one likes a poor winner. Then again, no one really liked you before, either, so knock yourself out.

No personal attacks. So it's a ban. Not decided on the length yet.

[Jackdog]

And no one likes a poor winner. Then again, no one really liked you before, either, so knock yourself out.

No personal attacks. So it's a ban. Not decided on the length yet.

What is this?

Obama looks aloof because he is an intelligent individual and unfortunately for the rest of us there are a lot of stupid people out there who are offended by those brighter than they are. Get over it.

Calling everyone in this forum that doesn't agree with Obama stupid is not a personal attack?

[RobVarak]

Doesn't matter, JackDog. Reality has become Obama's b*tch at this point.

The lunatics shouting "Kill him!" at Palin rallies that Obama and the media have been hyperventilating about for the last week?

Didn't happen.

http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakin ... nded_.html

Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.

“I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.

He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton.