OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:19 pm

Three happy boys on the podium:

- Alonso, the winner thanks to a gigantic slice of luck that was nevertheless merited. Had he qualified where he should have done, he wouldn't have won this race. Had his team mate not put the barrier magnets on ("Nelson, yeah, it's Flavio. Any chance you could stack it into a fence for us about lap 16-ish, just after Nando pits? There's a 2009 drive in it for you. Good lad.") he'd have finished the wrong side of nowhere. The way he hung the car out this weekend, the way he extracted every ounce of performance from a Renault that suddenly worked, I've got no problem at all with Alonso being the major benefactor from the safety car period.

- Nico. He drove the wheels off the Williams after the first safety car period, but had he not been forced into fuelling in a closed pitlane he'd not have been at the head of the queue, and had the stewards not took such an astonishing length of time to hand down his 10 second stop-go, Rosberg wouldn't have had the time to build up the gap that kept him in contention once his penalty had been served.

- Lewis. Had Piquet been slightly more talented or had Massa's pit crew not been quite so premature, Hamilton would not be world championship leader tonight. Nelson wasn't and Felipe's crew were, the net result being a swing in McLaren's favour (in the driver stakes at least; their odds of finishing as best team get longer with every anonymous Kovalainen effort). He lost a much, much bigger advantage in fewer races last year but Hamilton's position is the one you'd want to be in right now and there were signs in his race today of a driver more capable of accepting that he can't, and shouldn't really be aiming to, win them all.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:35 pm

The Doctor is back in the office -- World Champion.

What a battle between the three best riders in the world -- Rossi, Stoner and Pedrosa -- for a few laps today in Motegi. Quite a contrast from the F1 race, which would have been a snoozer like the other new street circuit, in Valencia, if not for the Safety Cars and the Ferrari Follies.

Rossi is f*cking awesome. Just sublime.

Take care,
PK

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:05 pm

Someone please tell me Carl Edwards was kidding. He has to be right?

"Where'd he come from?" Johnson asked after Edwards shot underneath him in the third turn of the final lap before banging hard off the wall, giving Johnson just enough room to drive back to the front and hold on for a win that vaulted him into the series points lead....

"I planned on hitting the wall, but I didn't plan on the wall slowing me down that much," Edwards said. "In video games, you can just run into the wall and run it wide open. That's what I did, but it didn't quite work out the same as the video game."

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:31 pm

Naples39 wrote:Someone please tell me Carl Edwards was kidding. He has to be right?

"Where'd he come from?" Johnson asked after Edwards shot underneath him in the third turn of the final lap before banging hard off the wall, giving Johnson just enough room to drive back to the front and hold on for a win that vaulted him into the series points lead....

"I planned on hitting the wall, but I didn't plan on the wall slowing me down that much," Edwards said. "In video games, you can just run into the wall and run it wide open. That's what I did, but it didn't quite work out the same as the video game."

He wasn't. Tony Stewart doesn't call Edwards "Eddie Haskell" for nothing. Edwards knows how to play his "Ah, shucks" personna to the hilt, and the NASCAR media blindly laps it up.

It's also obvious that Edwards plays EA's NASCAR games, not NR 2003.

Take care,
PK

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:40 pm

This may be old news but it looks like Helio Castroneves is in trouble with Uncle Sam.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports- ... NEVES-TAX/

PS - Rossi is amazing. Just got around to watching the race last night. Good grief Moto GP still gives me some of the best racing thrills even with the new bikes.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:44 pm

Yeah I read that article earlier today. I hope it works out for Helio but the facts in the case don't look to good for him.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:30 pm

Just wanted to chime in with my usual feedback during Talladega...

Restrictor plate racing sucks.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:02 pm

I just want to say that I no longer feel alone in this world after seeing Carl Edwards pull a Smurfy with 14 laps to go

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:55 pm

'North America: "We Never Liked Those European Guys Anyway"'

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71205

This is in French, but there's a track map to look at so I'm posting it anyway - plans for a circuit at Val d'Europe, the area of France built in conjunction with Disney in order that Disneyland Paris might have something approaching a captive audience:

http://www.valeurope-san.fr/info/FR/For ... 670/060111

Just as well that it's near Disneyland, because the sections at both ends of the long straight down the eastern edge of the track look very Mick-(that is, "very tight and fiddly.")

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:26 pm

That's a horrible track layout -- it must be a Tilke design. Seriously, there are two hairpins at which to overtake and no other passing zones. Zero fast corners. It looks like the Hungoraring in a parking lot.

A perfect track for F1, circa 2008.

The two best automobile road races I've seen this year have been the 24 Hours of Le Mans and last weekend's Petit Le Mans. It's getting to the point where I'm about ready to change the channel from the tedium of F1 to any ALMS broadcast. ALMS has an almost ideal mix of technology, great circuits, excellent racing and star names in all classes.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:49 pm

Funny how the two best road races you've watched this year were on proper racetracks with passing opportunities and a good variety of corners, isn't it? It's almost as if creating such tracks leads to an exciting spectacle somehow.

Totally agree with your assessment of ALMS and Petit Le Mans too (or what I saw of it when I wasn't asleep - I've had to rely on the highlights to fill the gaps in), though this weekend Motors TV were kind enough to provide Speed's pictures with the Radio Le Mans commentary, which confused the living hell out of me more than once.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:44 pm

I'm totally dumbfounded.

How in heck can they drop the Grand Prix du Canada?

It's a fantastic venue and the whole city gets behind the event.

I guess I should be glad to have gone this year.

So sad

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:50 pm

It's all about the money with Bernie and the Asians and Arabs are willing to pay massive amounts of money for races.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:15 pm

Smurfy wrote:I'm totally dumbfounded.

How in heck can they drop the Grand Prix du Canada?

It's a fantastic venue and the whole city gets behind the event.

I guess I should be glad to have gone this year.

So sad

Yeah, I don't get it. They're saying contractual problems along commercial rights. All drivers like it, it's well attended event but as in the EPL, money talks and walks. Bernie, you're making a big mistake, but then again it's not about the fans anymore.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:00 am

The Petite Le Mans was awesome, man McNish drove the heck out of that Audi at the end. Even with the Pugeots speed Klien never had a chance.

As for Bernie... well, there are 2 main things that keep me watching F1; Speed Channels commentators, and the classic tracks. If he keeps dumping them for new ones that just happen to have bigger wallets, well, then I'll just keep using my DVR and fast forwarding to the end of the races to see who's won, which I've done more than once this year. And to be honest, if it wasn't for Varsha and the gang, I'd probably do that for every race.

Thank God for Grand Am and ALMS!

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:43 am

Excellent job by Fernando in Japan. Though you have to wonder what Kubica's fortunes would have been like if BMW had continued developing their car this season.

Can someone explain what Hamilton was doing risking everything into turn one?

And what's with these penalties? Massa deserved it. I'm not so sure about Hamilton deserving his penalty. And the contact with Bourdais seemed clearly Massa's fault to me. I don't know why they even bothered to have an investigation.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:02 am

Lewis, Lewis, Lewis, what the Hell were you playing at? Leaving aside that Raikkonen could have stayed on the racetrack had not Kovalainen gone in exactly as deep as Hamilton and finished the job off, that was a moronic piece of driving; have a look at the onboard slo-mo of the contact with Massa later on lap one and you'll be able to see clearly a flatspot so bad that the green paint in the grooves has all gone. Not sure which part of his anatomy did the thinking on that one but I'd venture testicles overtook brain. Whether it merits a drive-through penalty is another matter entirely, in my opinion.

I can forgive Massa's first lap aberration more easily, since at least it wasn't completely flawed in concept and there was a large McLaren-shaped target being willingly presented to him, but if you're four wheels off the road and still hitting the side of people then it's time to consider the wise words of Mario:

"Sure, there are gaps in Formula One. The trick is finding one big enough for your car."

Really, once Lewis made such a hash of the first 15 seconds of racing this was the absolute best McLaren could have hoped for, and his position going to China is still a strong one. My worry is that the Hamilton of Singapore I referenced earlier, the one who could accept the wisdom of taking what's there and no more, seemed to disappear very quickly off the start, and while he was clearly aware in his post-race ITV interview that he'd fouled up, he didn't sound like a man intending to change his tactics. Had the move worked, of course, there's every possibility he'd have won the race and increased the gap to Massa, but the chances of the move coming off were always, always slim to none.

While I'm on the subject of penalties, what exactly are they investigating between Massa and Bourdais? One held his line, as he was entitled to do leaving the pits, the other tried to gain a place, there was contact and that's the end. It seems we live in an age of Formula One where there is no longer such a thing as a racing incident.

That boy Alonso's a bit good, isn't he? Surely this result means he'll stay put next season; he lapped both cars of the other team trying to woo him. Kubica is playing himself into the Raikkonen role this year, with both the drivers ahead in the world championship doing their damndest to avoid winning it, but even if Lewis and Felipe were both to DNF twice I'm not convinced Robert has the car to score 12 points in the races remaining.

Edited to add: Smurf, believe it or not, I started writing my post before yours went up. I am, as you can probably tell, in complete agreement.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:52 am

I can't even bring myself to feign surprise at the news of Bourdais receiving a 25 second penalty that, assuredly by way of coincidence and nothing else, means Massa gains a further point:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71351

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:38 am

As others have said in the F1 world. Alonso IS the best driver in the world. Great performance by the Spaniard. I am in disbelief that Massa wasn't penalized. Seabass should not have been given a 25 second penalty. It should have been Felipe instead.

Oh Lewis, why oh why did you throw the race away? Wasn't it him who said he wants to start driving for the championship and then he makes a total mess of his race and championship hopes? I still believe he can do it and is the most deserving driver this year but he has got to stop with the brainless starts.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:06 pm

If I wasn't such an addict, I'd give serious consideration to a Formula 1 boycott. There's no way that little bit of contact between Massa and Bourdais should have resulted in any kind of penalty for anyone. Massa's spin was the universe's way of assigning a penalty to the man who turned in on the guy ahead of him on the racing line

I'm sure if we look back over all racing incidents over the last few seasons we'd see many worse incidents that went unpenalized.

To say one thing in Massa's favour, I was impressed with his ballsy move to take the inside away from Webber. I wonder if this was the lesson he learned after he gave away the inside line to Hamilton back in Germany?

It's interesting how Alonso used to be criticized over his approach to the championship once he had established a good early lead. This season, we're finally getting to see what he can do when he has to really push it up to his last pit stop. Perhaps Hamilton has something to learn from Alonso's example?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:17 pm

A point I was going to make in reply to Rod's post about Hamilton being the most deserving, Smurf, and you're quite right, but it's not just Alonso's example. If world champions were crowned on speed and outright performance alone then yes, Lewis would merit the 2008 crown. On that basis, Mansell was 1987's champion, Villeneuve won in 1979 (if only...) and Lauda in 1974, to name but three examples. They went for broke at all times too, and all of them were beaten to the title, Villeneuve and Mansell by their own more cautious teammates. Even in Lauda's case, his teamate Regazzoni went to the last race of '74 with a big shot at the title through consistent point-scoring. As drivers one was on another level to the other, but there's much more to being a champion than that. Lauda and Mansell both learned that eventually, and Hamilton will too; hopefully he'll do so within the next seven days.

Lewis seems to have an issue with being anywhere other than first, and being unable to accept P2 is an admirable quality in a racing driver most of the time, but not now. Villeneuve used to say if he won enough races the championship would take care of itself, which is one way of looking at it, but at the same time it's important to realise when you're in a position, as Lewis was (and still is, in fact), where you've already won enough races and can take the safe option when it presents itself.

As far as a Formula One boycott, I was planning to do the same thing in the immediate aftermath of Spa. I didn't miss a minute of the Monza weekend. Don't bother trying, Smurfy; it's already snared us.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:31 pm

GB_Simo wrote: Lewis seems to have an issue with being anywhere other than first, and being unable to accept P2 is an admirable quality in a racing driver most of the time, but not now.

That's Lewis' Achilles Heel right there. At this point in the season he should concentrate on the championship. Score points first and worry about race wins second.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:57 pm

Of course, he could just be in a hurry to get back to the missus, which I couldn't really blame him for.

Regardless of the quality of Hamilton's start, it remains my opinion that he was stiffed on the drive-through call. Yes, he went in deep, and yes, Raikkonen went wide, but nobody forced Kimi or the several other drivers who fouled up their braking to hit the brakes when he did, and while someone did force Kimi off the racetrack, that someone was not Hamilton but the rapidly arriving Kovalainen. The penalty decision is almost as amusing as Massa's contention that his driving into the side of Hamilton constitutes hard but fair racing.

If you're really looking for motivation to start an F1 boycott, consider that Bourdais was investigated and then penalised after the race when the only option was a 25 second penalty, while Kovalainen's assault on Webber in Spa earned him a drive-through within a lap of the incident taking place. Had Bourdais been investigated with the same speed as the McLaren was, his drive-through would have put him in position to battle with Massa to the end. His 25 second penalty, of course, didn't. The FIA and their stewards may well not be pro-Ferrari, and may not be anti-McLaren, but is it ever hard to reach that conclusion with the evidence they keep presenting us.

A big part of my motivation to keep watching is the hope that McLaren and Lewis might win the title even in spite of the ruling body's best efforts to prevent it.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:37 pm

I happened to run into the race last night after the Rays victory and noticed the standings were quite jumbled, so I jumped on the Tivo to see Hamilton spun by Massa and then managed to catch the Bourdais/Massa incident.

So...you're saying from that, Hamilton gets a drive-through penalty and Massa gets handed an extra spot due to a penalty to Bourdais?

You know, I'm f*cking done with this season. I should have stuck with that thought after the stupid 'next race 10 spot grid penalties' started coming down earlier in the season. The stewards can lick my sack with their Ferrari red tongues.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:38 pm

GB_Simo wrote:As far as a Formula One boycott, I was planning to do the same thing in the immediate aftermath of Spa. I didn't miss a minute of the Monza weekend. Don't bother trying, Smurfy; it's already snared us.

Sad but true. I'll be staying up to watch the Chinese Grand Prix.