OT: Elections/Politics thread, part 4

[pigpen81]

I never like to interject myself into these threeads but I have to say this:

I have voted conservative all of my life with the exception of a few local races here and there.

IMO, The choice of Sarah Palin as VP is the biggest crock of crap I have ever seen. In no way, should that woman ever be 1 step away from the presidency.

The fact that McCain would choose her says more about him then anything.

He will not get my vote.

[Jared]

But not quite as bad as the 2004 election rigging in Ohio.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ ... ion_stolen

Pretty sure there's been a lot of analysis on this, and the consensus is that the Ohio election was not stolen. No time to find links though...

[Teal]

This is the way to win the hearts of the people-get out the idiot vote!
http://www2.facethestate.com/articles/d ... minorities

From the memo:

The document outlines specific tasks for various members of the state's liberal infrastructure, including a campaign to "educate the idiots," assigned to the state's AFL-CIO union. Among the operation's intended targets: "minorities, GED's, drop-outs."

Shameless. But par for the course.

But not quite as bad as the 2004 election rigging in Ohio.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ ... ion_stolen

riiiiiight. There's something really funny about a link that has in it the words 'rollingstone/news/story'. As if...

[Brando70]

Holy f***, we're at DEFCON 4.

Okay, compromise time. If you pull your missiles out of Turkey and promise not to invade Cuba, we will pull our missiles out of Cuba and throw in a box of cigars or the left-handed pitching prospect of your choice. Deal?

[webdanzer]

Holy f***, we're at DEFCON 4.

Okay, compromise time. If you pull your missiles out of Turkey and promise not to invade Cuba, we will pull our missiles out of Cuba and throw in a box of cigars or the left-handed pitching prospect of your choice. Deal?

Man, wait until we're on our best behavior! Brando will be ducking and covering in his bunker!

(You're readin' that thar thing upside-down, my man...)

[pk500]

Brando:

I want Teofilo Stevenson and Alberto Juantorena, two of Cuba's finest athletes ever, in the deal:





Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

I never like to interject myself into these threeads but I have to say this:

I have voted conservative all of my life with the exception of a few local races here and there.

IMO, The choice of Sarah Palin as VP is the biggest crock of crap I have ever seen. In no way, should that woman ever be 1 step away from the presidency.

The fact that McCain would choose her says more about him then anything.

He will not get my vote.

Thanks Piggy for having the guts to speak your mind. I know many "regular posters" who shy away from these threads because they prefer to not get involved. It gets a little boring when it's the same 5 or 6 guys all the time. Keep it up!

[RobVarak]

Posting from my Treo, so I'll get to this later in detail, but I just watched Biden's Couric interview.

he may have been more poised than Palin, but he apparently knows even less about Constitutional law than she does. It wont resonate because most people don't know much more either and Couric let him slide even when he was obviously bs'ing, but these are pretty shocking given his alleged expertise and experience.

I haven't checked, but Volkh or Ann Althouse or one of the ConLaw bloggers should take a look at this.

More later if I have the energy...

The Biden interview wasn't lack of knowledge it was spin. He tried to put a bill he sponsored that would help with women voters.

It was pretty clear what that was.

As I expected, Ann Althouse has some detailed analysis of the Biden and Palin interviews with Couric. Too well done to excerpt and too long to post

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/10/ka ... l#comments

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/10/sa ... l#comments

For those who don't know, Althouse is Professor at the University of Wisconsin Law School. She's a moderate, pro-choice Democrat, so keep your charges of neo-con in your holsters.

Edit: How did we get to DefCon 4 when I wasn't even around all morning??? Somebody find me a nuke to ride

[Brando70]

Holy f***, we're at DEFCON 4.

Okay, compromise time. If you pull your missiles out of Turkey and promise not to invade Cuba, we will pull our missiles out of Cuba and throw in a box of cigars or the left-handed pitching prospect of your choice. Deal?

Man, wait until we're on our best behavior! Brando will be ducking and covering in his bunker!

(You're readin' that thar thing upside-down, my man...)

Web, I'm going to make you my secretary of defense!

[webdanzer]

Web, I'm going to make you my secretary of defense!

Goodie! I shall bring my charts!

[Jackdog]

I cannot stand the fact Obama has Franklin Raines as his economic adviser. IMO he should be in jail. I also can't stand the fact he has had connections with Sam Graham-Felsen,Tony Rezko,Jeremiah Wright,ect,ect,ect. He seems to surround himself consistently with questionable characters.

Well, I've expressed my opinion on the questionable characters thing multiple times, so I won't do that again. However, it is absolutely not true that Franklin Raines is one of Obama's economic advisors.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-c ... ction.html

http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/09/24/ob ... to-raines/

That's cool man. Breakdown Penny Pritzker for me.

One reason Barack Obama might not want to talk about the role of financially irresponsible bank board members in creating the subprime mortgage foreclossure financial disaster is that the national finance chair of Obama's campaign, Penny Pritzker, is a former board member of the failed Superior Bank S&L that engaged in irresponsible subprime mortgage lending during the 1990s.

Apparently Penny was into subprime lending before it became all the rage starting in around 2000. It continues:

Penny Prtizker's chairmanship was apparently "to concentrate on subprimelending, principally on home mortgages, but for a while in subprime auto lending, too," after the Pritzkers' bank acquired its wholesale mortgage organization division, Alliance Funding, in December 1992.

Back then they called it "predatory lending."

http://gdaeman.blogspot.com/2008/02/who ... s-she.html

[matthewk]

So I should judge her based on what she plans on learning in the upcoming month's before she is in office? Could you imagine if you walked into an interview and used this same strategy? "Gee Mr. Human Resource Director...I don't know anything about welding right now, but I will learn between now and when I report for my first day. So do I get the job?"

More like this:

Employer: "So I see you're applying for the Welding job."
Applicant: "Yes sir, I am."
Employer: "Where are all of the bathrooms located in our building?"

[Jared]

As I expected, Ann Althouse has some detailed analysis of the Biden and Palin interviews with Couric. Too well done to excerpt and too long to post

It may be long...but it's not well-done. No time to go through all the errors. However, in the Biden post, she criticizes Biden for saying that some of his conservative scholar friends argue that there is no inherent right to privacy in the Constitution. Her retort is, well, Alito and Roberts affirm it; therefore Biden is either deliberately lying or an idiot. That would work if a) Alito and Roberts were the only conservative scholars (they're not, see Scalia) or b) this was a position that no one takes (umm, no. Both are completely and totally untrue. (How could she be a law professor with logical reasoning skills like this?)

[JRod]

Web, I'm going to make you my secretary of defense!

Goodie! I shall bring my charts!

God help us if the forums go Rococco.

[matthewk]

I never like to interject myself into these threeads but I have to say this:

I have voted conservative all of my life with the exception of a few local races here and there.

IMO, The choice of Sarah Palin as VP is the biggest crock of crap I have ever seen. In no way, should that woman ever be 1 step away from the presidency.

The fact that McCain would choose her says more about him then anything.

He will not get my vote.

Thanks Piggy for having the guts to speak your mind. I know many "regular posters" who shy away from these threads because they prefer to not get involved. It gets a little boring when it's the same 5 or 6 guys all the time. Keep it up!

So Piggy, how do Jack's lips feel on your a$$

[JRod]

So I should judge her based on what she plans on learning in the upcoming month's before she is in office? Could you imagine if you walked into an interview and used this same strategy? "Gee Mr. Human Resource Director...I don't know anything about welding right now, but I will learn between now and when I report for my first day. So do I get the job?"

More like this:

Employer: "So I see you're applying for the Welding job."
Applicant: "Yes sir, I am."
Employer: "Where are all of the bathrooms located in our building?"

Not even close.

Like Jack said, if Obama selected a the democratic version of Palin, the right would be up-in-arms.

A few commentators have said the right's proection of her isn't based on an facts or her job experience but on pure emotion. There is no logic associated with emotion.

Palin is protected because it's all that ticket has. McCain isn't really McCain anymore. McCain 2000 would be doing a better job against Obama. Instead McCain 2008 is all over the map. He's caught between the far right and his independent streak. The far right don't like what his independent streak represents and the independent in him can't quite stomach moving to the far right.

Then you add in Palin, a brilliant stroke to capture to conservatives. And a potential move that could have solidified more of the women and independent vote. Except for one very simple fact, either she's incompetent or she's been so mishandled by the McCain team that they destroyed their ace in the hole.

Like the Obama test, all Palin had to do was look vice-presidential. Not know it all. She hasn't done that for a large majority of voters.

But that doesn't matter for those that are supporting McCain/Palin on pure emotion.

[matthewk]

JRod, I'm not even going to bother responding to that.

Oh, other than to state that you've (or someone here) has already given the McCain isn't McCain line. I believe Obama already cleared it up for us. McCain is Bush.

I think I'm going to just stay away from here until after the debate. Hopefully she will do well and tomorrow we'll be busy arguing about the dumb things Biden said.

[JRod]

JRod, I'm not even going to bother responding to that.

Oh, other than to state that you've (or someone here) has already given the McCain isn't McCain line. I believe Obama already cleared it up for us. McCain is Bush.

I think I'm going to just stay away from here until after the debate. Hopefully she will do well and tomorrow we'll be busy arguing about the dumb things Biden said.

McCain 2000 was a man I could vote for. You don't remember but early in the Primary season, I said would like to see a McCain-Edwards debate. I whiffed on Edwards but I thought McCain was still John McCain not some republican wonk. I never stated that McCain was Bush. So don't make up lies. I just don't think McCain now has the right answer for the country.

I don't know what McCain we will see in office. The one that's a maverick or the one that is strapped to his base.

Teh straight talk express has turned into the circular talk express.

I was also extremely critical of Obama in the primaries.

[Feanor]

riiiiiight. There's something really funny about a link that has in it the words 'rollingstone/news/story'. As if...

Of course every primary source used in the article is invalid, too.

[JackB1]

There is a lot of talk about how tonite's debate could be do or die for Palin & McCain, so apparently I'm not the only one who thinks so.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... oulos.html
http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Polit ... 646&page=1

The Rep's are now advising her to just be herself.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... sor-t.html

They have seen the negative impact the recent interviews are having on the poll numbers and want her to go back to the Sara Palin we saw in the Rep. convention. I understand this strategy, but it is flawed. The convention suited her more because it was a pep rally where substance is limited. In these debates, viewers want depth in their answers and real talk...not round and round general thoughts about "reining in gov't spending" and cute lines about hockey and pit bulls. Should be interesting to see if she can pull this off. IMO, the only way she can win this debate is if Biden messes up and comes off as condescending, sexist or bullying towards her and that's a real possibility. If Biden can just keep his foot away from his mouth for 90 minutes, the Dems should get another bump after this debate.

[JRod]

There is a lot of talk about how tonite's debate could be do or die for Palin & McCain, so apparently I'm not the only one who thinks so.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar ... oulos.html

The Rep's are now advising her to just be herself. They have seen the negative impact the recent interviews are having on the poll numbers and want her to go back to the Sara Palin we saw in the Rep. convention. I understand this strategy, but it is flawed. The convention suited her more because it was a pep rally where substance is limited. In these debates, viewers want depth in their answers and real talk...not round and round general thoughts about "reining in gov't spending" and cute lines about hockey and pit bulls. Should be interesting to see if she can pull this off. IMO, the only way she can win this debate is if Biden messes up and comes off as condescending, sexist or bullying towards her and that's a real possibility. If Biden can just keep his foot away from his mouth for 90 minutes, the Dems should get another bump after this debate.

I think she'll do well. I don't think we'll see a jaw-dropping moment from her. However if there's one, she's done and she will just add to the misery.

Biden has a much tougher job. No matter what the pundits have said about Palin the benchmark for Palin is to be competent.

Her recent gaffes have set the bar so low and it's to her advantage.

I think Biden's whole task to to walk a very fine line. You do anything to energize the rightwing base, woman, or independents in Palin's favor. That's a harder line to walk. My guess is the only way he "wins" is to stay positive and do not attack Palin, even. If he attacks, you attack McCain but not land one single jab at Palin. If Palin attacks Biden, Biden should just sit there and take it.

[pk500]

My prediction for tonight: It will be a boring draw, much like the first presidential debate.

Palin will be coached enough to know stock answers to pressing issues, but she'll also inject enough of her folksy, Reagan-esque charm to paper over any issue-based cracks.

Meanwhile, Biden will play it safe and polite, hoping to avoid foot-in-mouth disease or appearing sexist and overbearing.

So we'll get a polite stalemate.

Of course, I would love to see either or both of these candidates light up like a Roman candle tonight, but I doubt it will happen.

Take care,
PK

[webdanzer]

In these debates, viewers want depth in their answers and real talk...

I disagree. I think most viewers (and I expect a lot of them for tonight) are going to come looking for a car crash. Or some good one-liners.

EDIT: Heh, I saw this immediately after I posted:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26978473/?GT1=43001

[pk500]

In these debates, viewers want depth in their answers and real talk...

I disagree. I think most viewers (and I expect a lot of them for tonight) are going to come looking for a car crash. Or some good one-liners.

EDIT: Heh, I saw this immediately after I posted:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26978473/?GT1=43001

I think most male viewers of tonight's debate would like to see Palin open a button or two atop her blouse or blazer ...

Guilty as charged.

Take care,
PK

[Teal]

Of course, I would love to see either or both of these candidates light up like a Roman candle tonight, but I doubt it will happen.

Take care,
PK

I'd like to see Palin do something like this:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ox6JMo0ounI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Or this: Think of Johnny Tyler as Biden, and Earp as Palin:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b56vwZ_oclw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>


It's pretty much what Biden's been told to do tonight (the Tyler bit). I don't think he'll be able to.