OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:52 pm

GB_Simo wrote:It's interesting that the amount of time Raikkonen gained by staying off the racetrack at Pouhon when he and Lewis went off on lap 43 appears to have gone unmentioned by the stewards of the meeting, isn't it?

The FIA have really outdone themselves here. That was one of the most exciting, unpredictable and thoroughly bizarre ends to a Grand Prix in Heaven knows how long, exactly the kind of thing that would stir up more interest in what is a fascinating title battle, and the first thing they've done is make a decision that can do nothing other than generate all kinds of negative publicity.

Bingo! I couldn't have said it better so I just quoted you instead. I do feel sorry for Kimi though. He didn't have the car to match Hamilton in those conditions at the end of the race and he pushed it too far. Great result for Heidfeld though.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:56 pm

Smurfy wrote:I do feel sorry for Kimi though. He didn't have the car to match Hamilton in those conditions at the end of the race and he pushed it too far. Great result for Heidfeld though.

I did like Kimi's quote post-race, saying how second place was no good to him and he was prepared to either win or lose it trying. 8 points would have been better than none at all, and would have subsequently became 10, not that he could have known, but at least he had a go.

Heidfeld was smart enough to take a punt on tyres for the final dash, and it saved what was looking like a pretty ordinary afternoon after Heikki hit him off the start. Outqualifying Kubica and then keeping him in sight all afternoon can't hurt his chances of keeping that drive for next year, though I'm starting to think you and I are the only two people in the world who really rate him.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:31 pm

GB_Simo wrote:Outqualifying Kubica and then keeping him in sight all afternoon can't hurt his chances of keeping that drive for next year, though I'm starting to think you and I are the only two people in the world who really rate him.

I don't know how Frank Williams or Patrick Head rate Heidfeld, but I'll bet they too remember what he accomplished for them.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:47 pm

My impression of Nick is he's a competent driver but since settling into his BMW drive it's almost as if he's taken the attitude of. I'm German, I drive for a German automaker and the team boss is German. There's no way i'm losing my ride.

I was pleasantly surprised when Mario Theissen lit a fire under his butt and now Nick is performing much better.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:41 pm

What a day of open-wheel racing, proving how it is absolutely superb form of motorsport when at its breathtaking best.

First, the Belgian Grand Prix. When Formula One is bad, it makes watching concrete harden look thrilling. But when it's good, like today, it's brilliant.

What an insane last few laps. It's so refreshing to see Hamilton continue with the cut-and-thrust balls for overtaking that he displayed in GP2 and all the lower categories. When the dude sees his first opening, he goes for it. A true racer.

Ferrari must put all of its backing behind Massa now. I admire Raikkonen for going for the win, but you can't avoid the fact that the man cracked. I wonder if Raikkonen finishing against the wall in pieces is a metaphor right now for his F1 career, especially considering his insouciance toward F1 in general, or at least his career with Ferrari in the long term.

It was just pretty telling to me that the guy let Hamilton reel him in but was able to find a few extra tenths in the car to hold Hamilton at bay for a while until the rain came at the very end. Where were those tenths when Hamilton was closing with 15 and 20 laps to go?

Ballsy drive by Heidfeld on inters to capture third. That's what happens when your job is on the line. I still think Heidfeld should be cut loose after this season because you should be going 10/10ths all the time, not just when you're facing a pink slip.

Total horsesh*t call by the FIA on Hamilton. That must be overturned. Hamilton was shoved into the chicane by close racing with Raikkonen -- he had nowhere else to go. And he surrendered the spot gained immediately to Raikkonen before making the decisive pass at La Source.

If the FIA upholds this decision, then I honestly believe this is some sort of retaliation by Max Mosley against McLaren's Ron Dennis. I insist that Mosley still believes Dennis was the party or one of the parties who tipped off the British tabs to Mosley's kinky sex orgy.

And what a CORKER of an IndyCar Series race at Chicagoland. Dixon wins the title but loses at the line to Castroneves by a FOOT. Castroneves started 28th and last and won the race. Plus, there were tons of "Oh, sh*t, cover your eyes" moments in the race as cars were running two- and three-wide all day at 215 mph.

I'm glad the IndyCar Series is balancing its schedule between ovals and road courses, but it must -- MUST -- continue to finish the season on a high-speed oval, which it will in 2009 at Homestead-Miami.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:40 pm

pk500 wrote:Total horsesh*t call by the FIA on Hamilton. That must be overturned.

Can they overturn it? I'm not up on the way the rules are about this kind of thing, but do the Court of Appeal first have to rule on whether McLaren have got any grounds for appeal in the first place?

Planet F1 (and I'm sorry I'm linking there, because I've sneezed better opinion pieces than some of the tripe they post) are reaching a tiny bit:

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3 ... 23,00.html

I've just watched the highlights on ITV4, and I'd still be jumping up and down and swearing at the TV as if it was all new to me had they not shown a brief clip of Sebastien Bourdais almost but not quite holding back tears mid-interview. I've never thought of Bourdais as one who only comes alive at contract time, so with his runs in Valencia and particularly Spa I wonder if he's finally coming to terms with these Formula One cars.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:09 pm

GB_Simo wrote:
pk500 wrote:Total horsesh*t call by the FIA on Hamilton. That must be overturned.
Can they overturn it? I'm not up on the way the rules are about this kind of thing, but do the Court of Appeal first have to rule on whether McLaren have got any grounds for appeal in the first place?

Planet F1 (and I'm sorry I'm linking there, because I've sneezed better opinion pieces than some of the tripe they post) are reaching a tiny bit:

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3 ... 23,00.html

I've just watched the highlights on ITV4, and I'd still be jumping up and down and swearing at the TV as if it was all new to me had they not shown a brief clip of Sebastien Bourdais almost but not quite holding back tears mid-interview. I've never thought of Bourdais as one who only comes alive at contract time, so with his runs in Valencia and particularly Spa I wonder if he's finally coming to terms with these Formula One cars.

Adam from what I read regarding the stewards decision, drive thru's are not reversible. I think everyone including Nicki Lauda feels Lewis should not be penalized.

There is a section in the rules which maybe of concern for Lewis which basically states " a driver is not allowed to cut a chicane to gain an advantage" which was the cause of Lewis' problems because when he cut the chicane he was in front of Kimi but then dropped behind Kimi which setup the final pass at La Source.

Felipe on his website explained it further which I wasn't aware of:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70428

"And Massa, who inherited the victory from Hamilton on Sunday evening, says he has no doubts his British rival was in the wrong judging by what is said to drivers by the FIA.

"Immediately after the podium ceremony, we knew the incident was under investigation and my first reaction was to find out what had actually happened, as I didn't see it when I was on the track," Massa wrote in his official blog on Monday.

"What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again.

"Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained.

"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter."

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:16 pm

Rodster wrote:"What Lewis did is the sort of thing that can happen, but I think he was maybe a bit too optimistic in thinking he could just hand back the position, albeit only partially to Kimi and then immediately try and pass him again.

"Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained.

"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter."

Massa is completely full of sh*t -- I guess that's why his eyes are brown.

Kimi and Lewis were side-by-side when Lewis was forced to cut the chicane. Lewis returned the spot to Kimi and MORE than any advantage Kimi had when the incident occurred.

This wasn't a case of a guy running wide from two lengths behind because of driver error or because of a wet track. This was due to hard, side-by-side racing.

Just pathetic that the FIA will do anything to hand the title and a victory to Ferrari and discourage real racing.

FIA = Ferrari International Aid

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:48 am

I'm a Ferrari fan, but really I saw no problem at all with the way Lewis handled it. For Pete's sake let 'em race.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:11 am

Gurantsu wrote:I'm a Ferrari fan, but really I saw no problem at all with the way Lewis handled it. For Pete's sake let 'em race.

Ditto !

I bleed Ferrari Red but for goodness sakes the sport is neutered enough. Good or bad for Ferrari let them settle it out on the track and not the courtroom.

The interesting thing though is other drivers are speaking out against Lewis' move. Maybe it's just jealousy but it doesn't help Lewis.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 3755.shtml

Trulli: Hamilton gained an advantage

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70435

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:38 pm

Last post on that move from me, this one.

Rodster wrote:There is a section in the rules which maybe of concern for Lewis which basically states " a driver is not allowed to cut a chicane to gain an advantage" which was the cause of Lewis' problems because when he cut the chicane he was in front of Kimi but then dropped behind Kimi which setup the final pass at La Source.

What set up the final pass at La Source was Kimi braking early. This whole business about gaining an advantage (which, incidentally, isn't explicitly mentioned anywhere in the regulations the stewards cited when issuing their penalty - there's a good amount of leeway in the wording, so it's more open to personal interpretation than these things perhaps should be) is, to my mind, all a bit silly:

- Lewis was right on the tail of a car struggling for grip and traction as he entered the chicane, in a car much better equipped for the conditions, so where would he have been coming onto the straight if not right on Raikkonen's backside?

- Additionally, an advantage cannot be gained by lifting to let another man by on a short straight, any more than momentum can be gained from the same act. If Lewis was able to get any kind of tow it'd have been negligible at the speeds and over such a short distance, so making no difference to the eventual pass, and if it's the act of going off to avoid an accident that constitutes an advantage, then we must also penalise Raikkonen at least twice, and the gaggle of drivers who opted to pick their own route through La Source on lap one rather than taking the prescribed one.

Felipe Massa would do well to seek lessons on the difference between toeing the party line and a public declaration of idiocy.

It might also be worth considering this:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70443

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:12 pm

I find it odd that Ferrari extended Kimi's contract til 2010 given his current form and apathetic attitude. In my opinion and this is not based on fact is that Ferrari maybe waiting for Sebastien Vettel to mature over at Red Bull Racing another two years. He'll be only 23 years old when his contract expires. He wouldn't have the baggage that Alonso brings along with his talents.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:51 am

It's the Monza weekend, so that's the timing covered off straight away.

His drive in the race at Spa was marvellous so he's clearly not lacking his pace, just his ability to produce that consistently for the time being. It'll come.

Anyone else been following practice? It's not the dryest weekend northern Italy has ever known.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:53 am

The wet weather is causing a lottery for tomorrows race. Kimi is 14th and Lewis 15th. So anyone want to wager how long it will take Lewis to pass the field? I say 3 laps and he'll be in the lead.

Vettel showing his talent and hoping he'll be a Ferrari driver 3 years from now.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:24 am

Channel surfing in a game attempt to keep up with the support races from Monza, I'm managing to just about keep up with the weather. ITV4 had the GP2 on a damp track but in dry, chilly weather, and Eurosport's Porsche Supercup coverage is just ending in a light rain that's been falling for the last 20 minutes.

Meanwhile, at Silverstone for the Le Mans Series (which is, for reasons I've never bothered to find out, being shown on two different channels at once), the sun is out and the weather is fine. First time through Copse in a 1000 km race, and McNish and the red Peugeot have already had an accident.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:39 am

Not too hard to keep up with the weather now, is it? 100% wet for the start, and I hope your coverage in the USA started early enough to show Raikkonen and particularly Massa barely hanging on to their cars on their recce lap out of the pits.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:32 am

Sebastien "freakin" Vettel

Awesome drive and did I hear correctly the youngest ever Formula 1 race winner? Ferrari you better line up this kid when his contract runs out with RBR.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:36 pm

Rod, you do remember that Ferrari only enter two cars, don't you?

That was a truly brilliant drive - a truly brilliant weekend, really - from Vettel. He handled the start superbly to get a great jump on the chasing pack, his pace in the early stages was electric and he looked in total control throughout, apart from that remarkable phase in the middle of the Grand Prix when it looked as though Hamilton was going to win the bloody thing. Not long ago, no more than two or three months, a leading journalist who might have been Mark Hughes (I'm almost certain it was, but I can't check at the minute) said he'd seen nothing in Vettel to suggest he was an absolute star of the future; perhaps today, then, might go some way to correcting that.

How does Heikki reckon on 2nd being the best he could do today when his team-mate was one shower of rain away from winning having started 15th? I like Heikki and I rate him pretty highly, but too often this year he's not quite been at the races (heck, even when he won he wasn't quite at the races, was he?).

Hamilton's eventual 7th still ranks as a save, but how he must be regretting the mistakes of qualifying. He might want to consider that running to the very limit of what is fair, as he did with Glock (forgiveable with the conditions) and Webber (not so good), isn't likely to make him universally loved, but his driving was otherwise excellent. Massa...I can't get beyond the idea that truly great drivers would have finished higher than 6th today and made the most of the opportunity qualifying had presented to them.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:40 pm

After today's race, I went back through some of my pictures from Thursday Open House in Montreal.

So this is the new Formula One glamour boy?: http://picasaweb.google.com/FerhadPics/ ... fFormula1#

Can someone get a superlicense while they're still potty-training?

BTW, I thought it was a fantastic - though scary - race. Toro Rosso is making the end to this season even more exciting. And Lewis keeps making me think of good ol' M. Schumacher. Too bad it wasn't Hamilton in the Williams back in 1994 and 1995.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:41 pm

GB_Simo wrote:Rod, you do remember that Ferrari only enter two cars, don't you?

LOL, i'm talking about when both Felipe and Kimi's contracts are up in 2010 and what a coincidence that S. Vettel's contract expires as well at the end of 2010.

MotoGP riders are truly in a class of their own. What bravery and skill to push a bike in those dangerous conditions at Indy. I agree with Jorge Lorenzo as he said he probably would have taken Nicky in another 2 laps if the race had not been called.

I love the line from Valentino as he said the front straight was dangerous as he had to dodge beer cans and paper cups. I wasn't aware there was a Nascar event at Indy this week.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:13 am

Those were leftovers from the 6-car F1 race a couple of years ago...

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:43 pm

Here's news that will make PK happy

Hayden confirmed at Ducati for 2009

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70670

Ducati have confirmed 2006 MotoGP world champion Nicky Hayden will partner Casey Stoner at the team next season.

The 29-year-old American had already announced his plans to leave Repsol Honda at the end of the year, after six seasons at the Japanese team.

Hayden will replace Marco Melandri at Ducati, and he will make his debut on the Desmosedici GP9 on 27 October right at the end of the season in Valencia.

"We are really happy to have Nicky join us," said Claudio Domenicali, Ducati Corse CEO. "We are certain that his never-say-die attitude, riding style and character will be great additions to our team in 2009.

"I would like to thank HRC for allowing Nicky to start testing our bike immediately after the Valencia Grand Prix.

"I would also like to thank Marco Melandri for his professionalism during a difficult year, which was below all our expectations.

"Unfortunately his feeling with the Desmosedici was never good enough to allow him to ride as well as he can. We wish him all the best for the future."

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:09 pm

Lewis is an absolute monster in the wet. He was overtaking people like he was playing Pole Position. I know some people think that McLaren is much better than the Ferrari in those conditions but Heikki wasn't on it like Hamilton was. So much fun to watch instead of the usual procession.

Vettel was great but I took the Toro Rosso to the top step of the podium in my first season on the PS3.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:06 am

Brilliant drive and congratulations to Fernando Alonso. To the Ferrari haters yes they did implode.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:12 pm

I think they should give this year's driver's world championship trophy to Bernd Maylander. The Safety Car seems to be deciding the outcome of more and more races these days. It also seems to be making racing way more exciting than the Formula One cars can.