OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:01 pm

Two VERY proper motor races today, at Hockenheim and Laguna Seca.

Fantastic drive by Hamilton. As Adam said, let's not blow Piquet into the second coming of his father. He lucked into the lead, but to be fair, he did nothing to discredit himself while in the lead and was hard but fair when passed by Hamilton.

I know I rip the Tilkedromes endlessly, but Herr Hermann has made a pretty damn good track for overtaking with modern F1 cars in the redesigned Hockenheimring. Plenty of action today, especially in the last 25 laps after the Safety Car.

Finally on F1, Hobbo was right on FOX: Why the hell did the marshals let Glock walk away from that accident scene if he was complaining of back pain? That kid should have been on a backboard faster than you can say Hector Rebacque.

What a damn good duel at Laguna. Reminded me of some of the races in 2006, the last year of the 990s. Man, I wish the FIM never switched from 990s to 800s. The racing was much better with the bigger engines, as there were higher straightaway speeds and slower corner speeds, with more torque exiting the corners. Add it up, and it creates more overtaking.

MotoGP still is great, but it was almost surreal in its quality in 2005 and 2006, the last two years of the 990 formula.

It's no wonder that Stoner only had one season in the 990 formula based on his post-race comments today at Laguna:

"For me, some of the overtaking manouvres were not correct," he told Italia1 television. "I'm a little disappointed because if I do something like this then for sure I get a penalty. I've had some very hard racing in my career, some very aggressive racing, but not dirty. For me, today was a little bit too much.

"Valentino rode a fantastic race, there's no taking that away from him," he added. "But, for me, some of the moves, not all of them, but some of them, were too much. I was very close to crashing and this is the point where it goes past aggressive and fair racing.

"Up until today I've been very happy with the way everybody rides at the front of the MotoGP field. Everybody's passes are very clean, sometimes aggressive, but this is ok. For me, today was a little bit past this point and a few times I was fearing crashing."

WAAAAAAAAH. STFU. There was nothing illegal about Rossi's moves today. He rode hard, aggressively and like a guy who knew this could be a turning point in the championship. I saw nothing untoward in Rossi's overtaking moves today, especially compared to some of the crazy sh*t in 2005 and 2006.

Finally, will Lorenzo have any unbroken bones in his body by the season finale at Valencia? I admire his bravery, but the kid is out of control, big time.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:36 pm

I'll just repeat what everyone else here has said. It was indeed a fantastic run by Hamilton. Recall he was dominating in Canada before the safety car came out. He dominated at Silverstone and now he dominated in Germany. He also made his overtaking moves stick and he was even able to get all over his teammate before the switch happened.

I'm going to have to backtrack over what I said about Alonso before. He has been failing to develop as a driver. Sure he's fast and he can wring out great laps from the car way better than Piquet can. But my benchmark for what defines a great driver was the 1996 season. Schumacher took a mediocre car (with a good engine though) and snatched 3 wins from the otherwise dominant Williamses. He made few mistakes (I only remember Monaco) and took third in the championship despite a car that didn't seem to want to stay together. He did all this without whining and casting undue blame like Alonso has been doing for the last three years. Eddie Irvine finished in 10th place that season. I still can remember that time Schumacher brushed the tires at the chicane in Italy and somehow managed to save the car. Much like Kimi faced today, the Ferrari of 1996 was notorious for entry understeer and exit oversteer.

While Hamilton was winning in Monaco (bit of luck there though), and dominating in Canada and Germany, Alonso was finding ways to spin or crash in the race. It also seemed today that every time Alonso tried something, he ended up moving backwards.

Cheers for Heidfeld too!

[Edit (addition)] So, McLaren doesn't have team orders, eh?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:17 am

Smurfy wrote:Much like Kimi faced today, the Ferrari of 1996 was notorious for entry understeer and exit oversteer.

Michael won at Spa in that contraption. Granted, it was handling better in B configuration than it had at launch, but I've always found it amazing that he could outrun Williams there, even if they did self-destruct a little that day.

Smurfy wrote:While Hamilton was winning in Monaco (bit of luck there though), and dominating in Canada and Germany, Alonso was finding ways to spin or crash in the race. It also seemed today that every time Alonso tried something, he ended up moving backwards.

His last few races have been particularly scruffy. Error in France, errors yesterday, and the tyre call at Silverstone was apparently all his, not the team's. If he's looking for a move next year, he might want to start staying on the track for an entire race distance, because while the talent is clearly there, there's a hint of desperation about him just now. Alonso's other problem, of course, is going to be that he wants a one year deal wherever he is next year, and Red Bull and Honda have already balked at the idea, so where can he go that gets him a better seat than he has now?

Smurfy wrote:So, McLaren doesn't have team orders, eh?

They always have at around this point in the championship, and they don't claim otherwise. As long as both drivers are in similar positions they race, but if one is a good title bet and the other needs a Mario Kart lightning power-up to stand a chance, there's a pecking order. Witness Montoya giving way to Raikkonen more than once in 2005, and DC giving way to the Finnish contigent every single bloody year.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:24 pm

I recently saw the 1996 race at Spa and I was amazed that he kept that thing on the track. I believe during the press conference he said he radioed the team because the car felt weird going trough Eau Rouge and Ross Brawn said the car was fine and he put it out of his mind and just went for it.

Wrt Alonso, next stop Ferrari.

I got a chance to watch the Laguna Seca MotoGP race. It's one of the best races i've seen in a while. It kind of reminded me of some of the classic battles that took place in F1 during the 80's between Senna, Mansell and Prost. The EuroSport guys aptly said it was like watching a Heavyweight Title Fight that should have taken place in Las Vegas instead of California.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:21 pm

"I can hear a curious whine coming from the Lola!"
"Actually, I think you'll find that's Nigel..."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69427

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:03 am

Those with an interest in historic racing might want to see if they can find any coverage of the Silverstone Classic, being beamed into my front room right now on Motors TV.

At the moment I'm watching Jaguar E-Types, Bizzarini 5300s, Cobras and Corvettes having a ding-dong battle with a little Lotus 17. The weekend programme also features Group C sportscars, historic touring cars, several historic Formula One categories, Astons, Porsches...tremendous machinery, tremendous racing. In the FIA Historic Formula One race alone there's a six-wheeled Tyrrell P34, a couple of Williams FW08s, an ex-Chris Amon Matra MS120, a pair of twin-chassis Lotus 88s and more, all being driven as the manufacturer intended.

If you find the Motors coverage anywhere, Toby Moody is having a fine day on commentary duty, though in the Historic Formula One race earlier he couldn't get a word in edgeways when accompanied by a certain Murray Walker.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:38 am

No luck m8 and im jealous. I tried Sopcast, TVUPlyer and myp2p.us and nada, zero.

Hopefully it gets uploaded to a torrent site.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:35 pm

I feel bad for Jorge Lorenzo. He was recently quoted on Autosport that he now fears riding the bike at the limit after the multiple accidents he's had. He's lucky he didn't break his neck after that horrific crash at Laguna Seca.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:47 pm

Rodster wrote:I feel bad for Jorge Lorenzo. He was recently quoted on Autosport that he now fears riding the bike at the limit after the multiple accidents he's had. He's lucky he didn't break his neck after that horrific crash at Laguna Seca.

I applaud Lorenzo's candor, but sooner or later the kid must realize that you can't ride an 800cc motorcycle at 10/10ths every corner like you can a 250cc bike.

Lorenzo will continue to crash, and crash heavily, until he learns that. I like the kid since he's the anti-Pedrosa. He hates Pedrosa and has made a point throughout his career to do the opposite of everything Pedrosa has done, so he can be a hero in Spain to those who think Pedrosa is a dick.

I'm not a Spaniard, but count me firmly in the "Pedrosa is a whiny b*tch" camp.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:25 pm

pk500 wrote:I applaud Lorenzo's candor, but sooner or later the kid must realize that you can't ride an 800cc motorcycle at 10/10ths every corner like you can a 250cc bike.

You would think that repeatedly firing yourself through the air sans motorbike would at least give a nudge towards realising that, wouldn't you?

The Autosport article Rod references seems to suggest that Lorenzo knows himself how he should be riding an 800cc bike, and why he keeps bidding his machine a high-speed farewell every other Sunday afternoon, but it's no use knowing one thing if you continue to practice another.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:14 pm

pk500 wrote: I applaud Lorenzo's candor, but sooner or later the kid must realize that you can't ride an 800cc motorcycle at 10/10ths every corner like you can a 250cc bike.

Take care,

PK

PK did you read the article because that's exactly what he said. He said he needs to learn you can't take every corner at 100%. He said he needs to learn every corner and every lap doesn't require max limit. And yes I applaud his candor too, admitting fear is good for his recovery to top form. I watched the race 5-6 times and i'm still amazed he didn't land on his head.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69518

Lorenzo: I'm not the rider I was

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:18 pm

I read the story, and my thoughts echo Adam's: It's one thing to say it; it's another thing to do it.

Take care,
PK

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:29 pm

Did anyone catch the NASCAR Nationwide qualifying at Montreal today?

Amazing pole by Scott Pruett.

Kruza · Post by **Kruza** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:50 am

I won't spoil it for those who haven't watched the Hungarian GP yet, but boy do I feel sorry for Felipe Massa.

Kruza

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:10 am

Yeah I caught the Nationwide race at Montreal. It was very cool watching a Nascar road race in the wet and their wipers going. I was pulling for Jacques V.

The race ended early because of the rain as those cars are not designed to run under those conditions but they did a pretty good job though seeing it's not something they are accustomed to doing.

As for Felipe, I read about it but didn't get up early enough to watch the race. I do feel bad for him as i'm a Ferrari fan but more importantly I do like Felipe as a racer and person. Which by the way he's out driving his teammate and current F1 Champion. Come on Kimi it's time to start earning your money.

But as the saying goes that's racing. The same thing happened to Mika Hakkinen as his car quit if memory serves me correct on the last lap (was it Monza?) and gifted the win to Michael Schumacher. I guess what goes around comes around.

It's certainly looking like it's Lewis Hamilton and McLaren's year. Things seem to be going there way this year.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:30 pm

Kruza wrote:I won't spoil it for those who haven't watched the Hungarian GP yet, but boy do I feel sorry for Felipe Massa.

Kruza

Indeed. And I respect Matchett, Hobbs and Varsha, but where does Matchett get off saying that was an incredible race? That was the typical Hungoraring snooze-fest, minus Massa and Hamilton's troubles. A sh*t race that took me about 35 minutes to watch on the DVR because the fast-forward button was in good use.

Matchett has the same disease as Mark Hughes from Autosport. They're both so in love with F1, it forms the absolute core of their being, that they're utterly incapable of admitting that there's such a thing as a dull race. Even if there's no passing, both will trot out lines about various fuel strategies and tire graining, blah, blah, blah, at play.

That stuff is interesting -- if it's combined with actual racing. And that certainly wasn't the case today, which is routine procedure at the worst track in F1 -- by far.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:10 pm

Rodster wrote:The same thing happened to Mika Hakkinen as his car quit if memory serves me correct on the last lap (was it Monza?) and gifted the win to Michael Schumacher.

Barcelona, in a year that might have been 2001 but that I'm too bone idle to look up. The worst thing you can ever do in a motor race is give up, and the worst thing you can ever do as a racing fan is to give up watching it. Terrible luck for Felipe, who'd driven a marvellous race, but it was nice to see that Heikki ended up being the beneficiary, given the run of luck he's had this year so far.

Rodster wrote:It's certainly looking like it's Lewis Hamilton and McLaren's year. Things seem to be going there way this year.

That wasn't part of our Kubica Agreement, Rod! That wasn't part!

Since we've mentioned TV coverage, I've got a rant. ITV, in their wisdom, scheduled something like 30 minutes of post-qualifying coverage yesterday that they couldn't fill, and ended up with barely 10 minutes after the podium ceremony today. On the day of Kovalainen's first win and Glock's best ever result (and what a weekend he had, too), we heard nothing at all of the press conference, ITV's only interview post-race being a snatched two minutes with a Mr L Hamilton.

During the race, the race that always coincides with Martin Brundle's holidays, we were given a demonstration of how far out to sea James Allen is without the safety net of Brundle. Completely incapable of reading a race, Allen instead pulled his standard trick of talking about what had happened previously once he'd had time to think about it, managing to successfully talk over, of all things, a pit fire without acknowledging it had ever taken place. Perhaps his crowning glory was his insistence that we were watching a Glock pitstop rather than a Trulli one, despite a) an earlier radio transmission confirming to Timo that he wasn't stopping again, b) Trulli's helmet in the Toyota cockpit and c) the word 'Trulli' in the FIA pitstop caption.

ITV aren't trying anymore, and their main commentator is getting worse with every passing race, so if Matchett's insistence that he'd seen a great race was the worst piece of commentary you lot suffered this afternoon, then I should really start watching the races on Speed through TVU Player instead.

Smurfy · Post by **Smurfy** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:59 pm

If I remember correctly, both Allen and Hill were making mistakes in their commentary.

I have to say, even though I like Damon Hill, he's not commentator material.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:45 pm

No, Damon isn't a commentator, though he was much much better today than yesterday's stop-start, erm and um performance, and brought some genuine insight to the coverage. Damon could probably grow into that sort of role given time - he misidentified the odd car here and there, but Damon's only commentated once before and probably watches these things on a huge plasma like most of us do, not the monitors of a commentary box. Not that it gives him a free pass, but I can forgive him a little more. On top of that, his reading of the race was excellent. He'd be better used as an analyst, as F1 Digital + used him in 2002, but then ITV have Mark 'ver fing wot is paramount' Blundell for that. Ha ha.

Besides, mistakes aren't really my point - Brundle makes enough of those too. My point, which I strayed from very quickly, is that James Allen does not do the play-by-play job he is employed to do - when there is a car merrily burning away in front of you, for example, it wouldn't hurt to bring it up, and if I, with no commentary experience at all, flagrantly ignored the fact that it couldn't possibly be Glock making that pitstop, I'd expect to be lynched. It's flat unforgiveable. Watch the Valencia race in three weeks, take note of how much more play-by-play Brundle's doing these days and ask yourself why the play-by-play commentator still hasn't realised he should do it instead of reviewing what happened before.

Does Canada take ITV coverage for quali as well? Yesterday, while we had a lingering look at Rosberg walking away from his car and putting his watch on during Q2, James insisted he'd be on track soon to improve his time and was completely taken aback when told that Rosberg wouldn't be going out. I started finishing his sentences for him with a mention of Rosberg being stuck in the pits until finally someone raised it with him.

For what it's worth, James Allen was an excellent pit reporter and is a fine journalist - I'm working through one of his Michael Schumacher books now, and it's excellent. What he can't do, and it's not his fault that they gave him the job, is carry off the role of main commentator.

/rant off

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:40 pm

After our discussion of Jorge Lorenzo, a sobering reminder that not everyone is lucky enough to walk away, as World Supersport contender Craig Jones loses his life at Brands Hatch aged just twenty three:

http://www.worldsbk.com/pubb_EN/news_ext.php?id=2483

Having seen the accident, he was tremendously unfortunate - the following Andrew Pitt was incredibly close to avoiding striking the downed Jones. RIP Jonesy.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:15 am

Very nice anectdotal obit on Craig Jones:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Aug/080804a.htm

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:19 am

The first 15 laps or so of the Moto GP race at Brno today were good entertainment, even if (SPOILER ALERT!) the championship fox seems to have been well and truly shot, barring any Yamaha mishaps.

PK, the BBC team today were saying how much better the Alice Ducatis have been going since Luis D'Antin stepped down, and very carefully suggested that his running of the team hadn't exactly been on the level. What are they referring to?

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:56 am

I read the results Adam. Even being a Rossi fan it sounded like a snoozer, truthfully. And quite the opposite of the nail biter at Laguna Seca.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:14 pm

Rod, there is a race behind Valentino Rossi, which the director had the good sense to concentrate on. A race does not have to feature a prolonged battle for the lead to be considered good entertainment, or at least it shouldn't have to, and there was far, far more racing down the pack at Brno than at Laguna.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:46 pm

I hear ya Adam but i'm a little spoiled after watching the last race which will go down in MotoGP history as one the finest, a true classic.