OT: Racing 2008-2009 (Spoiler Alert)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:36 am

Any other petrolheads here enjoy the 24 Hours of Le Mans as much as I did last weekend? I probably watched close to 10 hours of coverage on Speed, and the race was compelling as hell.

The varying weather caused endless strategy calls. The battle between the faster but frail Peugeot and the slower but more reliable Audi was epic, as less than a minute separated them after 23 hours of racing! Tom Kristensen was a steady wizard in the wet for Audi -- especially at night -- en route to his record eighth Le Mans victory, but Nicolas Minassian was amazing on slick tires in the wet in the final hour for Peugeot.

Le Mans was the most entertaining motor race in any category that I've seen this year. Really fun. And what a magical track La Sarthe is. I never tire of seeing cars on that circuit.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:53 pm

Hands down the best LeMans I've seen in years. The final 2 hours are worth watching wether you are an endurance racing fan or not. Seeing how the rain played havoc with the teams was classic endurance racing, and classic LeMans. I'm still scratching my head at Peugeots tire decision as the rain started falling, I guess Jan thought he could make up for lost time on the dry sections, but they were few and far between.

Still, to be that close after so many hours of racing is just awesome. I'm a Kristensen fan so it was cool to see him get #8, and I've always liked McNish also. Still, it would have been cool to see Villeneuve get the triple crown. There's always next year!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:03 pm

Gurantsu wrote:Hands down the best LeMans I've seen in years. The final 2 hours are worth watching wether you are an endurance racing fan or not. Seeing how the rain played havoc with the teams was classic endurance racing, and classic LeMans. I'm still scratching my head at Peugeots tire decision as the rain started falling, I guess Jan thought he could make up for lost time on the dry sections, but they were few and far between.

Still, to be that close after so many hours of racing is just awesome. I'm a Kristensen fan so it was cool to see him get #8, and I've always liked McNish also. Still, it would have been cool to see Villeneuve get the triple crown. There's always next year!

Yeah, that tire decision was very, very odd. Apparently the decision was Minassian's, not the team boss'. It almost played back into Peugeot's hands when Minassian started lapping about four seconds per lap quicker than TK with 45-50 minutes to go, but the late downpour ended any chance of a photo finish.

Still, what a race.

As for JV, piss on him. I hope he NEVER wins the Triple Crown, considering he does all he can these days to tarnish and berate the first jewel that he captured, the Indianapolis 500.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:07 pm

Really, what does he say about Indy?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Gurantsu wrote:Really, what does he say about Indy?

In the last decade, he has said that Indy is a shell of when he raced there, that it's not one of the biggest races in the world anymore, that open-wheel racing in the U.S. is a joke, etc., etc.

About the only thing he has said positive about the event was that his victory in 1995 was a springboard to F1 for him. Otherwise, he acts as if Indy died when he left U.S. open-wheel racing.

I have little use for the guy, to be honest. Never have. I can't think of a driver who has lived off the vapors of a famous last name and one championship for so long.

At least Damon Hill had the sense to exit F1 just a few years after his title, realizing his skills no longer were up to par. JV still considers himself part of the world's elite cadre of drivers, and the fawning motorsport press -- arguably more out of proper reverence and allegiance to his father than anything -- continues to play along with that fantasy.

Take care,
PK

Kruza · Post by **Kruza** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:58 am

Looks like current AMA Superbike champ Ben Spies is going to make his MotoGP debut in the British GP at Donington this weekend, replacing the injured Loris Capirossi. Spies is also slated to run in Laguna Seca and Indy later this year.

I hope Spies does well as it is always good to see North Americans represented in this league. I am still baffled as to why Mat Mladin doesn't push to be a part of MotoGP. I guess he likes being the big fish in a small pond.

Kruza

Kruza · Post by **Kruza** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:00 am

Gurantsu wrote:Hands down the best LeMans I've seen in years. The final 2 hours are worth watching wether you are an endurance racing fan or not. Seeing how the rain played havoc with the teams was classic endurance racing, and classic LeMans. I'm still scratching my head at Peugeots tire decision as the rain started falling, I guess Jan thought he could make up for lost time on the dry sections, but they were few and far between.

Still, to be that close after so many hours of racing is just awesome. I'm a Kristensen fan so it was cool to see him get #8, and I've always liked McNish also. Still, it would have been cool to see Villeneuve get the triple crown. There's always next year!

Kristensen got lucky when he made contact with another car about two hours left to race and didn't suffer any damage. But yeah, it was a great race to watch.

Kruza

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:27 am

Kruza wrote:I hope Spies does well as it is always good to see North Americans represented in this league. I am still baffled as to why Mat Mladin doesn't push to be a part of MotoGP. I guess he likes being the big fish in a small pond.

Kruza

For starters, Mladin is 36. MotoGP teams consider that age to be way past the sell date to make a MotoGP debut.

Second, Mladin has a reputation of being an outspoken, abrasive prick. Mladin has stated numerous times that he doesn't enjoy doing press or sponsor functions. That attitude simply won't cut it in today's corporate world of MotoGP, with its global sponsors and press corps.

Take care,
PK

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:23 pm

pk500 wrote:In the last decade, he has said that Indy is a shell of when he raced there, that it's not one of the biggest races in the world anymore, that open-wheel racing in the U.S. is a joke, etc., etc.

I don't personally agree with those statements, nor am I a big JV fan, but in his defense that is pretty much the same drivel the mainstream motorsports press both outside and inside the US has been spouting for years. Heh, or maybe they just believe everything JV says.

Regarding LeMans: My TIVO got everything Speed covered, except the last stint, as I was out of space or something. That was a great race though.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:44 pm

There's a difference between JV and the American media, Don. The Indy 500 victory made Villeneuve's career in the U.S. and was a springboard to his CART title in 1995, which pushed him into F1. Indy has not made the career of many U.S. motorsports media members.

That's why I hold Villeneuve in such contempt. He regularly sh*ts on the place and race that made his career.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:29 pm

I'm not a JV fan either but I agree with what he was saying. I think he made his comments after the split and yes AOWR was not the same and a shell of it's former self. That's the primary reason I began to follow Formula 1. At least that series had some meaning even with all the sideshows and BS.

While F1 was growing and gaining sponsors he probably noticed how Nascar was gaining momentum in the US. How attendance by those in the media said had dropped at the I500 after the split, bump day was not the same prior to the split etc. The fact that at one point there were questions whether the I500 could even field 33 cars tarnished it's past glory.

You had the other side Champ Cars pissing at the IRL and vice versa. So yeah as an objective individual he's got a point. I do agree that he could have either shut his piehole or had been somewhat more diplomatic about it.

Remember this is the same guy who said the FIA's decision to switch to groove tyres was stupid which the FIA basically told him to shut it and he backed down.

IMO AOWR has been a joke since after the split and on that I absolutely agree with him. Nascar is now the King in the US. Hopefully those in charge of the IRL can learn from the past and build on the series since Champ Car is no more.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:28 pm

Rodster wrote:IMO AOWR has been a joke since after the split and on that I absolutely agree with him. Nascar is now the King in the US. Hopefully those in charge of the IRL can learn from the past and build on the series since Champ Car is no more.

And if you think the split is what caused NASCAR's explosion, you're high. NASCAR already was on a fast track toward the top. The split certainly accelerated that rise and damaged AOWR, but the split didn't cause NASCAR's rocket ride to the top of the American racing heap.

There already were many factors before 1996 that were pointing toward NASCAR's dominance:

1. The arrival of Jeff Gordon in 1993, the first crossover star NASCAR ever had.
2. The debut of the Brickyard 400. NASCAR now was in racing's high holy ground.
3. The NASCAR schedule including more events west of the Mississippi.
4. ESPN's blanket coverage of NASCAR.
5. Much more sponsorship from non-tobacco and non-alcohol companies in NASCAR. The Tide deal with DW was key; that told corporate America that women were interested in stock-car racing.
6. Superb marketing by NASCAR and superb point-of-purchase and advertising synergy between NASCAR sponsors and drivers, one area where AOWR has stumbled repeatedly for the last 30 years.
7. The retirement of A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, Al Unser, Johnny Rutherford and Gordon Johncock between 1993-95. Five HUGE American stars of AOWR quit in a three-season span. That would be like NASCAR losing Dale Earnhardt Jr., Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Burton and Mark Martin all within a three-year span.

And don't forget that Dale Earnhardt's death in February 2001 did more to promote NASCAR than perhaps any other factor. That may sound morbid, but it's true.

When Earnhardt's death was covered comprehensively by the major news and cable networks, it exposed the sport to entire segment of the population that never would have even batted an eyelash toward it. The rest of America saw the devotion of NASCAR fans and figured they should check it out.

Combine that with the fact that the huge FOX-NBC network deal, and all of its promotion, started with the race in which Earnhardt died, and it was a perfect storm of publicity for NASCAR. Earnhardt is bigger in death than he ever was in life. I say that with total respect, but it's true.

The IRL and CART had nothing to do with those factors.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:02 pm

We'll agree to disagree but IMO JV is right AOWR has not been the same since the split and both series went into slide mode after that. Your take on gordo is well takin but when he came on the scene when there was talk of the split and I remember that well back in 1995 watching the Indy 500 and Paul Page talking about that.

Actually I began to lose interest in Nascar when Earnhardt died as he's what drew me to the sport in the first place. He would turn over in his grave if he knew Toyota and the COT were the future for Nascar.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:42 pm

Rodster wrote:We'll agree to disagree but IMO JV is right AOWR has not been the same since the split and both series went into slide mode after that. Your take on gordo is well takin but when he came on the scene when there was talk of the split and I remember that well back in 1995 watching the Indy 500 and Paul Page talking about that.

Nobody starts watching other racing series because there's talk of a split. If they did, then Formula One would have lost everybody three times in the last 30 years, with the FISA/FOCA war, the GPMA saga and this ongoing dispute over the lack of a Concorde Agreement.

The mess that was made of AOWR surely gave NASCAR an easier run to glory than it might otherwise have had, but the split in itself is not what made NASCAR.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:15 am

GB_Simo wrote:
Nobody starts watching other racing series because there's talk of a split. If they did, then Formula One would have lost everybody three times in the last 30 years, with the FISA/FOCA war, the GPMA saga and this ongoing dispute over the lack of a Concorde Agreement.

The mess that was made of AOWR surely gave NASCAR an easier run to glory than it might otherwise have had, but the split in itself is not what made NASCAR.

And that's my point. Wrt any business in order to leapfrog your main competitor you have to do a lot more things right than your competiton. Clearly Nascar made better decisions than OWR did. The split in OWR gave Nascar the opportunity and they seized on it.

Now it appears and this is just my opinion Nascar is doing just the opposite. The COT looks like a joke, the series and spectacle has become homogenized. They are trying to appease their sponsors and TV contracts whereas at one point they did what they wanted. I stopped watching Nascar back around 2002.

Let's see if AOWR can now build on it's momentum and as I said earlier hopefully learn from it's past mistakes and build on what recently took place as it's now one series. I still agree 100% with JV's past assessment wrt the state of AOWR.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:49 pm

Does anyone have any experience with NASCAR track pass. Is it as good as they make it look?

http://www.nascar.com/trackpass/about/raceview/

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:40 pm

RIP Scott Kalitta, NHRA Top Fuel Champ 1994, 1995 and son of legendary Connie Kalitta.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... -incident/

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:05 pm

DChaps wrote:RIP Scott Kalitta, NHRA Top Fuel Champ 1994, 1995 and son of legendary Connie Kalitta.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... -incident/

I worked with Scott during my NHRA tenure from 1993-97, so this hits close. Didn't know him well, but he always was a good, quiet guy at the track and easy to work with. Fun guy away from the track. A no-nonsense racer who let his ET's, speeds and reaction times do most of the talking at the track.

This is a big-time bummer, especially considering Scott had a wife and two kids, was very wealthy due to his family's air freight business and already had retired from the sport twice. He didn't need to race, but he couldn't get the nitro out of his veins. Dude just loved to race.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:45 pm

What awful news.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:31 pm

Did you guys happen to catch the second crash out by John Hopkins at Assen yesterday during Qualifying? The first was not bad as he jogged back to the pits.

The second one ripped off his handlebars and the top part of the bike was heavily damaged during a high speed shunt.

He'll miss at least two races from the reports coming in. He only sustained ankle fractures and he whacked a knee real good. It's amazing he's not in a coma when you see the accident on tape. Scary stuff and i'm glad he'll be back to race. It helps me appreciate the go nads of these two wheel daredevils.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:07 pm

Watch or record the Assen race from 6-7 p.m. (ET) Sunday on Speed even though it took place today.

The race for the win wasn't anything special, but some amazing sh*t happened everywhere else on track. This race had it all.

No more hints. Don't want to spoil it. But this was a cracker.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:56 pm

Yup I saw the race and it was filled with it's share of moments. The last lap ended just as the first with some drama. Up next the German GP and then Laguna Seca.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:19 pm

On the subject of Moto GP, I was apparently elsewhere when it was announced that Eurosport's coverage of the sport would end at the end of this season, and that in the UK the BBC would have exclusive rights. BBC don't devote huge amounts of time to Moto GP now and it's difficult to imagine them changing that with Formula One returning to them next year, so I don't expect that'll be too much fun for British viewers. Already, BBC only broadcast 125s and 250s on their BBCi service, inaccessible to those without a digital receiver or the patience to sift through the menus to find it, and qualifying is buried on BBC 2, or worse, one of their digital offshoots...

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:45 pm

Even though i'm not a big fan of James Allen. At least ITV does present a very polished product that makes it fun to watch. I like ITV's prerace buildup and the Eurosport coverage as well. Both do an excellent job.

I remember Randy in Saturday's race coverage referring to having some extra time on his hands next year. I didn't know Eurosport was was getting axed either.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:56 pm

ITV's pre-race used to be so much better when it wasn't so bloody Brit-centric, though. I miss that. The only other thing I can fault that aspect of their show on is Mark Blundell's inability to string together a coherent sentence. As for Allen, it's enough to say that in recent races, Brundle's started taking over the main commentator's role as if to show that even he couldn't stand it any more.

Randy's comment was when Toby Moody suggested he get on the two-seater and put another bike out there, wasn't it? BBC's main commentator, Charlie Cox (a favourite of mine, even if it's obvious that his background is in cars, not bikes) is off to his homeland of Australia to take on the Jeremy Clarkson role in their version of Top Gear, so if that clashes with the Moto GP season there might be a role for Toby there. Can't see where Jules and Randy fit in, since Steve Parrish has been with the BBC for coming on towards 20 years now and their pit reporters aren't all that bad.