OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

[wco81]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/78264-c ... on-exposed

This is how the current administration, through the "Enron Loophole" and other directives to the CTFC, has perverted an organization that is supposed to be CONTROLLING speculation and turned them into more than an enabler, but an actual cheerleader for the commodity markets. You would think this would be news but the same people who are sucking over $2Tn a year out of our pockets (over and above what we paid for the same commodities 5 years ago) are also the people who control the mainstream media and the very government that is listening to this testimony.

[XXXIV]

Cant we just get a seperate Bush is Satan thread?

I know Id love a Hilary is pig c*** thread.

[ScoopBrady]

Well, I'm pleased to report that all is forgotten and all is forgiven. God bless you Hil. God bless you!

http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/06/62445/index.html

[XXXIV]

Well, I'm pleased to report that all is forgotten and all is forgiven. God bless you Hil. God bless you!

http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/06/62445/index.html

Kool and the Gang plays "Celebration"

[matthewk]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/78264-c ... on-exposed

Just start your own thread for this like XXXIV suggested. Then I won't have to manually filter through it when I'm expecting to read things related to the OT.

[Jared]

The old thread was a general elections/politics thread, so this one should be too (might be best to keep it all in one thread). I changed the title to reflect that.

[Teal]

Just create a 'handhelds' section, Jared...

[Jackdog]

It's no wonder the Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

The embarrassment of the Senate food service struggling like some neighborhood pizza joint has quietly sparked change previously unthinkable for Democrats. Last week, in a late-night voice vote, the Senate agreed to privatize the operation of its food service, a decision that would, for the first time, put it under the control of a contractor and all but guarantee lower wages and benefits for the outfit's new hires.

But Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), speaking for the group of senators who opposed privatizing the restaurants, said that "you cannot stand on the Senate floor and condemn the privatization of workers, and then turn around and privatize the workers here in the Senate and leave them out on their own."

Aren't these the same folks that wouldn't let us "Privatize/Invest" 2% of our own SS money? Love big goverment!!:roll:

[wco81]

It wasn't Congress which opposed privatizing SS.

When it was under GOP control and Bush brought up SS privatization after his re-election, he got pushback from members of his own party, because they'd go home and their constituents were telling them no way.

So it was the country saying they weren't ready. Considering how the stock market has performed -- S&P is virtually flat over 10 years ago -- maybe the country had the right instinct.


What do you think about privatization or outsourcing of a lot of military functions? Maybe if they had a competitive bidding process instead of giving out contracts to politically-connected outfits like Blackwater.

[Jackdog]

It wasn't Congress which opposed privatizing SS.

When it was under GOP control and Bush brought up SS privatization after his re-election, he got pushback from members of his own party, because they'd go home and their constituents were telling them no way.

So it was the country saying they weren't ready. Considering how the stock market has performed -- S&P is virtually flat over 10 years ago -- maybe the country had the right instinct.

If I died today,at the very least my wife would get 2 percent of whatever I invested versus the generous $255.00 the goverment would pay her. What a special gift after paying in for almost 30 years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01520.html

What do you think about privatization or outsourcing of a lot of military functions? Maybe if they had a competitive bidding process instead of giving out contracts to politically-connected outfits like Blackwater.

I don't mind at all. I worked for Blackwater in 04.

[RobVarak]

What do you think about privatization or outsourcing of a lot of military functions? Maybe if they had a competitive bidding process instead of giving out contracts to politically-connected outfits like Blackwater.

I don't mind at all. I worked for Blackwater in 04.

LMFAO

[wco81]

I don't mean personally. It must be great for contractors to bill hundreds of thousands per employee.

Policy-wise, if you have problem with govt. overspending and waste, overpaying outfits like Blackwater doesn't quite square with that philosophy, does it?

Or the big govt. waste complaint doesn't apply at all to any military spending?

[Jared]

Just create a 'handhelds' section, Jared...

Ha...I think it might be better to confine it to just one thread...a whole section, and god knows what would happen.

[Jackdog]

I don't mean personally. It must be great for contractors to bill hundreds of thousands per employee.

It is. The level of danger involved in the work calls for that type of pay. Congress should pay active military the same rate.

Policy-wise, if you have problem with govt. overspending and waste, overpaying outfits like Blackwater doesn't quite square with that philosophy, does it?

For me it does. Blackwater is made up of retired military and prior service personnel. They deserve every penny they get. http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

Or the big govt. waste complaint doesn't apply at all to any military spending?

Nope. It's life or death. IMO we don't spend enough.

[Teal]

Or the big govt. waste complaint doesn't apply at all to any military spending?

Nope. It's life or death. IMO we don't spend enough.

DAMN RIGHT.

[JRod]

Policy-wise, if you have problem with govt. overspending and waste, overpaying outfits like Blackwater doesn't quite square with that philosophy, does it?

For me it does. Blackwater is made up of retired military and prior service personnel. They deserve every penny they get.

But that's the thing, they are ex military. Blackwater is being paid by the government to pay it's soldiers of fortune. You can call them security consultants or whatever nice term justifies wasting this type of money. They aren't in the military anymore. I'm not going to say they are taking that type from the soldier because we all know the government wouldn't spend the money on the soldier. But because they are ex military, they moved from serving their country to making a dollar. Do they still care about serving their country, I'm sure they do. But know they are making money from it. That's war profiteering in my opinion.

Your right they should pay soldiers a comparative salary to these types of firms.

In WWII, Sen. Truman earned his stripes by investigating war profiteering. We need another commission to look in outfits like Blackwater. Who, in essence, are the industrial complex, Pres. Eisenhower warned us about.

[Jackdog]

But that's the thing, they are ex military. Blackwater is being paid by the government to pay it's soldiers of fortune. You can call them security consultants or whatever nice term justifies wasting this type of money. They aren't in the military anymore. I'm not going to say they are taking that type from the soldier because we all know the government wouldn't spend the money on the soldier. But because they are ex military, they moved from serving their country to making a dollar. Do they still care about serving their country, I'm sure they do. But know they are making money from it. That's war profiteering in my opinion.


In WWII, Sen. Truman earned his stripes by investigating war profiteering. We need another commission to look in outfits like Blackwater. Who, in essence, are the industrial complex, Pres. Eisenhower warned us about.

I disagree. Blackwater provides special services in a free market society. They have a price and our goverment and many others have been giving Blackwater contracts to perform those services since 1997. Local police aren't the military. Are they profiteering on crime?

I was a soldier in Iraq and I was very happy to see Blackwater contractors show up in our Ops area. It wasn't a waste when they helped save soldiers lives with their helicopters and medics when ours were stretched thin.

[RobVarak]

But that's the thing, they are ex military. Blackwater is being paid by the government to pay it's soldiers of fortune. You can call them security consultants or whatever nice term justifies wasting this type of money. They aren't in the military anymore. I'm not going to say they are taking that type from the soldier because we all know the government wouldn't spend the money on the soldier. But because they are ex military, they moved from serving their country to making a dollar. Do they still care about serving their country, I'm sure they do. But know they are making money from it. That's war profiteering in my opinion.

Your right they should pay soldiers a comparative salary to these types of firms.

In WWII, Sen. Truman earned his stripes by investigating war profiteering. We need another commission to look in outfits like Blackwater. Who, in essence, are the industrial complex, Pres. Eisenhower warned us about.

First of all, Truman earned his stripes turning tricks for Boss Pendergast.

Private firms may be profiting from the war, but that's different than profiteering. They're making money because of the war, sure, but they aren't doing so in any back alley, deceptive or unfair manner. Certainly their proftis are increased by the government's reluctance to pay soliders more or draft more soldiers, but to me that's distinct from the traditional definition of profiteering (e.g. Jacking up prices on subsitute goods which are already valuable due to rationing etc.)

As for private security firms, the market would seem to dictate that soldiers who are privately screened and selected, financially motivated, shipped by private means, privately equipped and sometimes privately trained be paid more than a GI who is trained, equipped and transported by the government. Soldiers are, for lack of a more delicate term, assets. The assets value is assessed more by the investment put into it than by the job it performs. Otherwise every car would cost the same. They all get me to work, so shouldn't I pay the same for the that BMW as I do for that Accord? They both do the same job. Or shouldn't I pay that union pro electrician the same thing that I pay my butterfinger brother-in-law when they each install a light switch?

I'm not opining about the efficacy of utilizing mercenaries. But it seems to me that if you do use them you have to be prepared to pay a premium for losing the efficiencies you gain from using GIs.

PS Someday I want to have a beer with WCO and JackDog, just to confirm that they are the same species. LOL

[Jackdog]

First of all, Truman earned his stripes turning tricks for Boss Pendergast.

Private firms may be profiting from the war, but that's different than profiteering. They're making money because of the war, sure, but they aren't doing so in any back alley, deceptive or unfair manner. Certainly their proftis are increased by the government's reluctance to pay soliders more or draft more soldiers, but to me that's distinct from the traditional definition of profiteering (e.g. Jacking up prices on subsitute goods which are already valuable due to rationing etc.)

As for private security firms, the market would seem to dictate that soldiers who are privately screened and selected, financially motivated, shipped by private means, privately equipped and sometimes privately trained be paid more than a GI who is trained, equipped and transported by the government. Soldiers are, for lack of a more delicate term, assets. The assets value is assessed more by the investment put into it than by the job it performs. Otherwise every car would cost the same. They all get me to work, so shouldn't I pay the same for the that BMW as I do for that Accord? They both do the same job. Or shouldn't I pay that union pro electrician the same thing that I pay my butterfinger brother-in-law when they each install a light switch?

I'm not opining about the efficacy of utilizing mercenaries. But it seems to me that if you do use them you have to be prepared to pay a premium for losing the efficiencies you gain from using GIs.

Good explanation. Damned lawyers.

PS Someday I want to have a beer with WCO and JackDog, just to confirm that they are the same species. LOL

I am in!! If WCO shows I will need to put you on retainer.

[Feanor]

Or the big govt. waste complaint doesn't apply at all to any military spending?

Nope. It's life or death. IMO we don't spend enough.

So is the health care system, so I'm going to assume you're in favor of massive government spending there, too.

[XXXIV]

Or the big govt. waste complaint doesn't apply at all to any military spending?

Nope. It's life or death. IMO we don't spend enough.

So is the health care system, so I'm going to assume you're in favor of massive government spending there, too.

Im for spending on the military and fixing the health care system....There is more than enough money for both if the two parties would ever get together and get rid of their waste...but that will never happen. EVER.

[JRod]

Nope. It's life or death. IMO we don't spend enough.

So is the health care system, so I'm going to assume you're in favor of massive government spending there, too.

Im for spending on the military and fixing the health care system....There is more than enough money for both if the two parties would ever get together and get rid of their waste...but that will never happen. EVER.

I bet you don't even know what waste they are spending it on. I mean, everyone cries out government waste, and there is, but you don't know what it is outside of maybe the infamous bridge to no where.

It's the battle cry of the uninformed. Hell I would even settle if you could find government waste if your own state. That would be a promising beginning.

[XXXIV]

So is the health care system, so I'm going to assume you're in favor of massive government spending there, too.

Im for spending on the military and fixing the health care system....There is more than enough money for both if the two parties would ever get together and get rid of their waste...but that will never happen. EVER.

I bet you don't even know what was te they are spending it on. I mean, everyone cries out government waste, and there is, but you don't know what it is outside of maybe the infamous bridge to no where.

It's the battle cry of the uninformed. Hell I would even settle if you could find government waste if your own state. That would be a promising beginning.

Nice... ...but Ill humor you the well informed and give you one example...

The scumbag governer spent a three million dollars on flowers for the state borders after he was elected while raising the taxes because the state was about to shut down.

[XXXIV]

DP

[Jackdog]

Or the big govt. waste complaint doesn't apply at all to any military spending?

Nope. It's life or death. IMO we don't spend enough.

So is the health care system, so I'm going to assume you're in favor of massive government spending there, too.

Nope. I pay for great insurance for my family. I get free goverment health care. I don't believe my whole family should suffer the same fate.